Ask Slashdot: IT Career Path After 35?

An anonymous reader writes "All my friends seem to be moving towards a managerial role, and I'm concerned about my increasing age in a business where, according to some, 30 might as well be 50. But I still feel young, and feel like I have so much to learn. So many interesting technical challenges cross my path, as I manage to move towards larger and more complex projects. I am in higher demand than ever, often with multiple headhunters contacting me in the same day. But will it last? Is age discrimination a myth? Are there statistics on how many IT people move into management? I know some older programmers who got bored with management and successfully resumed a tech-only career. Others started their own small business. What has been your experience? Do you/have you assumed a managerial role? Did you enjoy it? Have you managed to stay current and marketable long after 35?"

Comments

Find a job you love

[ihtoit]

...and you'll never work another day in your life.

  - Confucius

The reality of the situation is that you'll always find yourself doing something you hate, be it financial recordkeeping, slopping out the latrine or prepping the coffee machine for a hard day's thinking. Sometimes a drastic career change means starting at the bottom of the ladder again, bringing back memories of your first job at 16 fetching and carrying for the fat cunt in his leather chair, for minimum wage and zero gratitude. Deal with it.

Speaking for myself, I was never one to be sticking it to "The Man", I have always been "The Man", and will be "The Man" until the day I die.

Re:Find a job you love

[Kjella]

It's one thing that every job and every employer has their less than stellar moments, that's what they're paying you for. It's another thing to run into a career dead end where your skills aren't really in demand and you're either unemployed, flipping fries because you can't get a relevant job or clinging to a dead end job because the institutional knowledge you have is the only thing keeping you employed. Of course a lot of that is random chance for better or for worse, you'll never who will or won't hire you or if the shifting winds of the market will suddenly leave you without a job. But a lot of it also conscious choice, for example I once left a job primarily because I felt I was becoming too specialized in a particular tool. I felt that if I wanted to stay easily employable, I'd have to diversify. I couldn't have gotten the job I have today if I'd stayed that path.

Another example is that really through no fault of my own I had to swap employers several times in a relatively short amount of time, I know I could explain it well in an interview but it raises flags if you're just glancing through my CV. So now I'm planning to stay with my current employer to build credibility that I can commit and won't just head for greener pastures in less than a year. That is quite deliberate management of my career and I'm actively aware that it's not what I know I know that matters, it's what I can convince others I know. For example in my last job part of the reason they hired me was certifications, I didn't need those to do the job but they turned out to be very helpful in showing that I could.

I think your answer is a little simplistic, continuing a coding career might seem a good idea today. But what's coming down river, is it heavy rapids and a waterfall around the next bend? That's what he's asking. It might be okay to become a truck driver today. It might be a lot less nice in 20 years if your job has been taken over by autonomous cars and you got no marketable skills anymore. Personally I wouldn't worry too much about it, good coders will be in demand. But you might want to set your wage expectations correctly, it might not be way to earn the fattest paychecks as a 50-60 year old.

Re:Find a job you love

[ihtoit]

the answer to that one is also simplistic: there is no job security in any industry in the Western hemisphere any more except HR management and front line social services. ANYTHING operated in the private sector is a case of looking over your shoulder every minute of every day, because there will be someone as paperskilled as you are but twenty years younger and twenty years lower down the salary expectation, then you're out a job. For work in the public sector, your job security depends on how well you can cover management's arses when shit goes south.

Simple...

[Anonymous Coward]

Work for a medium sized/large, established company, not a startup run by kids. The only place I've ever seen agism is at startups where everyone is in their early 20s. They all think that they're the bees knees, and that no one could possible know better than them, and because they never hire anyone older, they never find out that they're wrong. At larger shops, you'll find a lot more experienced people who know that age is a benefit, not a detriment.

Re:Simple...

[pr0nbot]

I think I'd advise the reverse, at least in terms of company size. A small company is more likely to value you for what you do, rather than want to replace you because your salary has become "too high". The small company I work for has a family feel to it, with zero office politics, but possibly not the same career advancement possibilities you'd get at a megacorp.

Perhaps startups are a special case; an established small company will be more stable. Or at least, your future is tied more to the performance of the company than the whims of those above you.

Financial independence

[Anonymous Coward]

It should be your goal in life to become as financially independent as possible as early in life as you can. Being prudent about your mortgages, cars, investments, education etc. can enable you to be fully debt free early on. After you are debt free, most of your questions become easier to answer. If you owe nothing to nobody than it is easy for you to move on, start a business or look for a new possibility. A lot of people are in precarious positions where they are humiliated daily but cannot leave due to high debt loads and wanting the lifestyle they cannot afford without the bank's input. With the bank involved, you become a wage slave and are no better than the common surf of yesteryear.

Learn a "legacy" skill

[mdm-adph]

I'm beginning to think the "eventualy move into management" when you get to your mid to late 30's is just the normal development path in IT. I'm desperately trying to avoid it, myself, but as I get older I constantly find management jobs being thrust in my direction.

That's working the private sector, of course. In the public sector, there was nothing to worry about, since nobody ever seemed to retire -- I could've stayed a programmer well into my 50's.

The alternative is to learn some skill that never seems to be fall out of use -- I see tons of graybeards in my company that do nothing but maintain aging AS400 and larger mainframe systems all day.

Honestly, they seem to be the happiest of the bunch...

Re: Instead of carrying on as a one-man band -

[mattwarden]

You make this sound simple. You are glossing over a lot of detail that requires non-programming skill. Especially given he is clearly trying to avoid a management role, why eould you even suggest this? At a minimum, he needs to understand the business and managerial and risk mitigation functions he will need to play, in order to determine whether he has the skills required and desire to play those roles.

Do you want to be a manager?

[WD]

If so, pursue it. Don't do it because all your friends are becoming managers.

Most youg ones don't know crap...

[gweihir]

As somebody that does code reviews (for security) and some development besides doing security consulting, I can state with conviction that most young coders do not know what they are doing. At least some of them get better with age. But the point is, hiring based on age is counterproductive for code development jobs. Of course, many managers think that young coders are "fresher" and they do cost less. Well, they are "fresher" as in "more clueless" and they do cost less for a good reason: They are less productive by sane metrics. They also talk back less, as they have far less of a clue.

So my advice is stick with what you love doing and search for an employer that has not succumbed to the stupid "young is better" fad.

Re:Most youg ones don't know crap...

[gweihir]

For "senior" technical people that actually are not good at it, that is certainly true. I have seen that as a consultant countless times. On the other hand, those that are senior and _are_ good engineers, typically welcome (competent) criticism as a chance to learn even more. So basically this is just another effect of hiring incompetent engineers.

Incidentally, that incompetence breeds incompetence is a very old effect. There is also the effect of people that want to make their life easy: "How, do you ensure underlings are loyal? One answer is to promote incompetents." And "If you promote people who deserve it, they will never be grateful." -- Machiavelli

While it sounds like and old, tired cliché, you only get technological excellence from people that have technological excellence as their primary goal in life.

Re:Oh my god, you're actually serious???

[homey of my owney]

Yes, you're right. For example, 20 years ago there weren't little shits going around calling people fucktard in public forum back then. If you're having trouble in the market place, perhaps you should try a little introspection.

Re: Yes

[O('_')O_Bush]

I write software as a career. I don't do marathon coding sessions or any of the ridiculous self sacrificing stuff that some seem to think is the norm (and seems to be the cause of people burning out within a few years and switching career paths).

Maybe I have been fortunate finding a work that values optimal performance for the time worked over just tons of time, but I certainly feel you can have it both ways (software and work-life balance).

Re:Yes

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm 50 and still an "in the trenches" programmer. I have no fear about getting a job anywhere I want because I'm good at what I do, and I'm betting I'll be doing this for another 20 or so years. I was in a supervisory (kind of pre-manager) role once and frankly hated that little bit of managing. It's very much like herding cats and that's not what I want to do.

Re:Yes

[knightghost]

You're one of the few. Age discrimination and outsourcing are huge. Migrating to management will get twice the pay for half the work given an MBA and a decade of engineering experience.

Half of STEM workers don't find work in their field after graduating.
3/4 of STEM workers leave the field for better areas.
The flood of STEM visas and outsourcing in IT has reduced wages by 1/3.
Still want to stay in the field? You better enjoy what you do and live on a strict budget.

Getting old and I have no problem finding work...

[TiggertheMad]

As a middle aged coder with many years of experience under his belt, I can make the following generalizations based on my experiences:

The first five years after college are the hardest, many people only want to hire coders with experience. If this is where you are now, stick to it if you love it and things will work out. If you are a 'casual coder' who got into the field because you think that its easy money, quit now.

As the years pass, I am finding no end of people who want to hire senior coders that can work 'full stack' and can manage projects and small teams independently. The money is quite good, and the work almost comes to find you. You have to be willing to work to keep up with tech and keep your skills sharp. The only managers that are making twice what I make are going to be c-level, so I if you want to jump ship to management for better money you had better be really good at it. I can promise you these people are not doing half the work I do though. Pay is usually equitable to responsibility, and they have their fair share of that.

Missing the point a bit?

[BarbaraHudson]

My point was that a catastrophic health event can take it all away, and that has NOTHING to do with participation in marathon coding sessions by "getting into the zone" or work/life balance.

Unpredictable things happen. You can lose it all in one day, or find out you're soon going to in one doctor's visit, without doing anything "wrong" to contribute to it. It could be from bad genes ("You should have chosen better parents!") or just random chance ("You should have known that car was going to burn the yellow light!"). The thing is, it's not always your fault. As programmers, we live in a world that's predictable and replicable. Set of instructions A produces effect B. Life isn't nearly as neat.