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18th Century Law Dredged Up To Force Decryption of Devices

Cognitive Dissident writes The Register has a story about federal prosecutors using a law signed by George Washington to force manufacturers to help law enforcement access encrypted data on devices they manufacture. The All Writs Act is a broad statute simply authorizing courts to issue any order necessary to obtain information within their jurisdiction. Quoting the Register article: "Last month, New York prosecutors successfully persuaded a judge that the ancient law could be used to force an unnamed smartphone manufacturer to help unlock a phone allegedly used in a credit card fraud case. The judge ordered the manufacturer to offer 'reasonable technical assistance' to make the phone's contents available." What will happen when this collides with Apple and Google deliberately creating encryption that they themselves cannot break?

9 of 446 comments (clear)

  1. Well, obviously by bondsbw · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What will happen when this collides with Apple and Google deliberately creating encryption that they themselves cannot break?

    That is answered by the former quote:

    The judge ordered the manufacturer to offer 'reasonable technical assistance' to make the phone's contents available.

    Breaking encryption that is not breakable does not fall under any sense of the word "reasonable".

    --
    All my liberal friends think I'm a conservative, all my conservative friends think I'm a liberal.
  2. Re:5th Admendment? by koan · · Score: 5, Funny

    Which came first? The chicken or the egg?

    Answer: The rooster.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  3. The law is valid by aepervius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "New York prosecutors successfully persuaded a judge that the ancient law could be used"

    The law was not sunset-ed, the law was not stricken down by another law, the law itself was not repelled on its own, the law was not stricken down by the supreme court.

    So what is the problem ? Until a repell/strick down , ALL those law are still valid. Cue the shooting down welsh with a bow, but this is the basis of our judiciary process. just because a law is old does not make it invalid.

    --
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    1. Re:The law is valid by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "New York prosecutors successfully persuaded a judge that the ancient law could be used" The law was not sunset-ed, the law was not stricken down by another law, the law itself was not repelled on its own, the law was not stricken down by the supreme court. So what is the problem ? Until a repell/strick down , ALL those law are still valid. Cue the shooting down welsh with a bow, but this is the basis of our judiciary process. just because a law is old does not make it invalid.

      Correct, until it is repealed (unlikely) or struck down by the Supreme Court it is still the law. This could be a good case to take to the Supreme Court since it highlights the impact of changing technology on the law and could clarify what is required when presented with such a writ.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
  4. Re:5th Admendment? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Assumming that you're talking about the Fifth Amendment's prohibition on compelled self-incriminaton, no. If you're suspected of a crime, *you* can't be compelled to incriminate yourself. But third parties that aren't protected by a privilege (spousal, attorney-client, doctor-patient, etc.) can be compelled to produce evidence, testify against you, and definitely to provide technical manuals and expertise. Third parties can be compensated for the cost of complying with subpoenas in cases that they are not party to.

    The protection against self-incrimination isn't well-defined either. There's conflicting case-law as to whether you can be compelled to hand over encryption keys.

  5. Re:5th Admendment? by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 5, Informative

    And even if you specify chicken eggs, it's *still* the egg. By the process of evolution, the first chicken would have been a mutation from parents that were almost, but not quite, chickens. The almost-but-not-quite-chicken mother would have laid an egg, out of which hatched the first chicken. So the egg came first.

  6. Re: 5th Admendment? by roc97007 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Still having faith in the constitution? That same one that gets raped on a daily basis? I think you need a new strategy.

    The constitution? Actually, yes.

    The way it's currently being followed? Not so much.

    The constitution isn't going to climb out from under that bullet proof glass in Washington and right wrongs like Batman. It takes diligence and sometimes sacrifice on the behalf of citizens to keep the country in line with the principles on which it was founded. We get the government we deserve, through out inaction, or through voting for free stuff rather than principles.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  7. Re:5th Admendment? by kruach+aum · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This, interestingly, runs into the paradox of the heap. 10 grains of rice are not a heap. 11 grains of rice are not a heap. 12 grains of rice are not a heap... and adding grains of rice one by one is never going to end up in a case where X grains of rice are not a heap but X+1 grains of rice are. But now we have a problem, because 1000 grains of rice clearly are a heap! There must have been a switch somewhere from not-heap to heap, but it's somehow untraceable to any particular instance of rice adding.

    The chicken is similar. The archaeopteryx clearly is not a chicken. Slowly, over the millennia, mutation by mutation, we eventually ended up with creatures that clearly are chickens. But when was the first time a non-chicken gave birth to a chicken? Just like in the case of the heap, we can't tell. What's more, not only can't we tell, there may not even be a fact of the matter; that is, it may be fundamentally unknowable.

  8. Re:5th Admendment? by smooth+wombat · · Score: 5, Informative

    Citations, please.

    I found the following related to the above quotes. The first one I couldn't find anything in context, only that Bush supposedly said it, and the second one is part of the the Constitution being just a piece of paper quote which was false. As to the rest. . .

    "I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." George W. Bush - Link

    "See, in my line of work you got to keep repeating things over and over and over again for the truth to sink in, to kind of catapult the propaganda." - George W. Bush - Link

    "You can fool some of the people all the time, and those are the ones you want to concentrate on." - George W. Bush - Link

    "You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." - George W. Bush - Link

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower