Programmer Father Asks: What Gets Little Girls Interested In Science?

nbauman writes Programmer David Auerbach is dismayed that, at a critical developmental age, his 4-year-old daughter wants to be a princess, not a scientist or engineer, he writes in Slate. The larger society keeps forcing sexist stereotypes on her, in every book and toy store. From the article: "Getting more women into science and technology fields: Where’s the silver bullet? While I might get more hits by revealing the One Simple Trick to increase female participation in the sciences, the truth is there isn’t some key inflection point where young women’s involvement drops off. Instead, there is a series of small- to medium-sized discouraging factors that set in from a young age, ranging from unhelpful social conditioning to a lack of role models to unconscious bias to very conscious bias. Any and all of these can figure into why, for example, women tend to underrate their technical abilities relative to men. I know plenty of successful women in the sciences, but let’s not fool ourselves and say the playing field in the academic sciences or the tech world is even. My wife attributes her pursuit of programming to being a loner and pretty much ignoring wider society while growing up: 'Being left alone with a computer (with NO INTERNET TO TELL ME WHAT I COULDN’T DO) was the deciding factor,' she tells me."

Comments

Yeesh

[Anonymous Coward]

This is practically a troll.

Try as we do, we can't escape the reality that girls are not only physically different than boys, but as an aggregate group do lean towards certain behaviours and interests.

Some of it may be learned, and there are of course outliers, but you see similar behaviour tied to gender across very different and sometimes geographically isolated cultures. In the least technical terms, there really are "girl things" and "guy things". This becomes rediculously obvious to anyone who has spent any time around little kids.

I'm all for removing artificial barriers, but once they are down we're gonna have to accept that maybe girls really do want to be princesses and maybe guys really do want to be monster trucks (not drive, be damnit, BE!)

I really doubt this guys daughter is deciding to be a princess because she feels society has limited her career choices. She wants to be a princess because that's the kind of thing little girls lean towards. If she wants to play with lego, by all means encourage that shit, but if she just wants to dress up and play with doll, let her play with her dolls and leave her alone!

Re:Yeesh

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever consider girls don't like girly things cause there marketed towards them, but rather, that girly things are marketed to girls cause thats there tried and true demographic? There's a chance that the marketers paid lots of money to figure out what girls and boys will get there parents to buy them might actually know there demographics. Like someone above said, I'm all about giving girls the ability to go for boy things, but trying to force them into it is going to be damaging and counter productive. Would you be disappointed in your child if they were into stereotypical things?

Re:Yeesh

[jandersen]

This is practically a troll.

Not really - what you say seems thoughtful and balanced to my eye.

But to answer the fellow's question - what makes girls interested in science is the same that makes anybody else interested: the feeling of understanding an exciting subject. One has to keep in mind - and accept - that not everybody will find it interesting, though. That said, the worst thing one can do to anybody's interest is push them; that will almost inevitably lead to feelings of failure and teach them that science is the one thing they hate. It's the same for all subjects, really; I have seen often enough how parents force their children to play the violin or piano, and they end up detesting it.

If you really want your daughter to become interested in science, let her understand that the only thing you want for her is that she chooses what shereally likes, and that you trust her own judgement in this. Most children are naturally interested in learning new things and in asking questions. Also, you have to realise that ALL questions are valid and should be answered to your best ability - and if you don't know the answer, show her how to find it for herself. That may be the most important part - after all, science is not about knowing everything, but about finding out.

Re:Yeesh

[Kariles70]

Why of course! Only female brains are smaller in physical size but with more neurons closer together than a male brain and they tend to be receiving a far different chemical cocktail of hormones than a male brain. They mature earlier than a male's brain and are effected more by what they hear than what they see and vice versa for a male. They are aroused by very different things than a male brain, they interpret data, particularly spatial recognition differently, have more olfactory nerves than a male, and a whole host of other things that are very different. But other than that they are exactly the same.

Don't bother with a course in anatomy & physiology. You'd fail it due to your politics preventing you from learning.

She's _4_

[Anonymous Coward]

Jesus fucking christ, give it a break. Your kid is 4. Mine were still talking about being medieval knights at that age.

Re:She's _4_

[ShanghaiBill]

Jesus fucking christ, give it a break. Your kid is 4.

Indeed. Why can't she be both a princess and a scientist? Why can't engineers wear a tiara, nice gowns, and be feminine? I think the problem here is the dad's attitude, not the daughter's.

Uh?

[Anonymous Coward]

The Internet doesn't tell people what they cannot do. Why is the most ridiculous statement of the summary in ALL CAPS?

critical development age!?

[Dahamma]

at a critical developmental age, his 4-year-old daughter wants to be a princess, not a scientist or engineer

This alone makes the entire premise completely idiotic.

Most 4-year-old *boys* want to be professional athletes, firemen, or, astronauts. I am a "principal architect", and I only decided I wanted to be "an engineer" at about age 23 (about a year after I actually worked in the field).

The only "critical development" for a 4 year old should be learning how play well with others and talk in semi-coherent sentences.

Seems like some unrealistic expectations!

[OrangeTide]

Why can't a 4 year old, girl or boy, play with a fantasy? Most little boys I've met aren't playing at realistic roles like scientist or engineer either. They want to be a pokemon master or a super hero or an "army guy". It isn't any different for a girl, a princess is a common fantasy for little girls. And the girls I've met sometimes had super powers or were princesses AND doctors at the same time. A four year old should be encourage to explore whatever fantasy they want and use their imagination freely without judgement.

Because when they get older, some asshole is going to start judging them and a little something is going to die inside of them. Then they'll be free to become the scientist, engineer, kindergarten teacher or stripper they were meant to be.

Dad needs to read the first two sentences

[raymorris]

> Programmer David Auerbach is dismayed that, at a critical developmental age, his 4-year-old daughter wants to be a princess, not a scientist or engineer, he writes in Slate. The larger society keeps forcing sexist stereotypes on her

"Dad is dismayed his 4-year-old daughter wants". It is DAD who has a problem with what his daughter wants, who is upset that a 4-year-old girl is acting like a 4-year-old girl. "The larger society" isn't dismayed by her making her own choices. You are, David. You are the one who is butthurt that she didn't want to trick or treat dressed as an engineer. "The larger society" would be fine with her being a rodeo rider, a pilot, or baker. You sir are the one trying to force your choice of career on her before she even enters kindergarten.

There is one piece of good news, David. Unless you are King David, she won't actually grow up to be a princess. Next week she might want to be an astronaut and a week after that she might want to be a teacher. When she grows up, she might be an artist, a counselor, or an HR professional. She almost certainly won't be a princess, though, so don't worry about that.

WTF?

[yndrd1984]

What's worse than being a child in a culture that pushes people into stereotypical roles? Having parents that want to dictate their child's interests in order to make themselves look good.

So one day you daughter says she's “ready for princesses” and "part of me died"? Get the fuck over yourself.

Seriously, stop using your own child as a tool for making yourself look like a good progressive and listen to her for a change. When (and if) she wants to be a nerd, she'll let you know - your job is to make sure she knows she has the choice, not make it for her.

You'll get a princess if you raise a princess

[Taco Cowboy]

I am a father of 3 girls. None of my girls call themselves "Princess", and none of them see themselves as someone who needs a "Prince" on a White Horse to rescue her from whatever trouble

I never treat any of my girls as princess. I treat them as normal human beings - normal human beings who understand the danger of this world and who are alert to the dangers around them

The "Programmer Father" is in dismay because his 4-year old girl sees herself as a "Princess", and he got nobody but himself (plus his better half) to blame - because since that little girls was an infant they kept calling her "Princess" and kept treating her as if she is not capable of doing anything for and by herself

Re:You'll get a princess if you raise a princess

[Architect_sasyr]

Ahh shit man. My daughter calls herself a princess. She can also put up shelves, throw a ball, and is top of her grade in the martial arts she elected to do (although this is probably because she saw me head off to do them, so my bad there yes?). We have always spoken to her like she is a human being, and part of our family - and you know what? She's pretty damned independent and capable. You can call her princess without applying the don't do anything to them. Also, fuck it. If she wants to find a prince and marry the man, why the fuck would I stop her.

I don't know why we can't just let kids be kids. If a boy wants to call himself princess, nothing wrong with that, but as soon as a girl calls herself princess we're all up in arms.