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Trains May Soon Come Equipped With Debris-Zapping Lasers

Molly McHugh writes: Holland's chief transportation service is testing a unique new way to clear the rails of fallen leaves and other small debris: by mounting lasers on the fronts of locomotives. The lasers will cause the leaves, which produce a condition commonly referred to as "slippery rail" in the fall and winter months, to vanish in a puff of smoke.

20 of 194 comments (clear)

  1. They're leaves. by Falos · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wouldn't it be easier to mount brushes or something?

    1. Re:They're leaves. by jandrese · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'm guessing anything that directly touches the track is going to wear down fairly quickly, and anything that doesn't directly touch the track is going to miss wet leaves that are plastered to it.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    2. Re:They're leaves. by Matheus · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Exercise for the reader: Try sweeping the leaves off of your driveway or sidewalk when they are wet and stuck to the pavement. Now imaging accomplishing that in a single high-speed sweep.

      IANATE but I believe many trains already have such a brush but even if they don't they are not effective.

      Freaking laser beams have a bunch of other issues but are WAY cooler ;-)

    3. Re:They're leaves. by iggymanz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      gee I hope the third rail contacts on the electrical train I road to work don't hear you

    4. Re:They're leaves. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      anything that directly touches the track

      High pressure air then. Got to be less harmful to the steel than a wet leaf vaporizing laser.

      A couple thousand PSIG will take off the wet leaves, water, ice, light rust, paint and anything else they could possibly care about.

    5. Re:They're leaves. by ArcadeMan · · Score: 5, Funny

      Indeed. Where are they going to attach the sharks?

    6. Re:They're leaves. by iggymanz · · Score: 4, Informative

      My point not shot down at all, shoes are replaced every 50,000km in the cars in my city. Brush of proper material could have huge life, wear not a barrier to use. In fact, they do put in "scrapers" next to the pickup shoes in the winter months for ice and snow. Is any of this getting through to you? can you connect the dots?

    7. Re:They're leaves. by Deadstick · · Score: 4, Funny

      At least those are pointed down at the track; the reflections aren't much of a hazard. But yes, if the train rolls over you, you may incur eye damage.

    8. Re:They're leaves. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      At least those are pointed down at the track; the reflections aren't much of a hazard.

      Lasers strong enough to set things on fire quickly tend to also be strong enough to cause eye damage from diffuse reflection, especially when you are trying to burn something larger than a pin point and that is possibly quite damp.

    9. Re: They're leaves. by sexconker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What forces does the train put on them, exactly? Draw me a diagram.
      If we followed your dumbass thinking we wouldn't have street sweepers, tires, or shoes.

    10. Re:They're leaves. by stjobe · · Score: 5, Informative

      They're not "just leaves".

      I thought this looked familiar, and sure enough, google turned up this article from 2007 about the system and the guy who spent eight years and 5 million GBP to try to solve it.

      "Every time a train runs over a pile of leaves, they are squashed into a hard, black, shiny, Teflon-like substance that makes it more difficult for trains to slow down and stop."

      "Rofin-Sinar created a monster. The final version of the laser railhead cleaner contains two lasers capable of producing 2kW each. The pulsed energy is channelled via a fibre optic, which delivers a round beam in a straight line across the rail.
      The pulsed beam hits the rail 25,000 times per second. The leafy mulch absorbs each 5,000C pulse of light, causing it to heat rapidly, expand and lift off the rails. Tests have found that the laser cleaner also works on oil, grease, ice and other problematic substances."

      --
      "Total destruction the only solution" - Bob Marley
  2. Even if their wet? by AltGrendel · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would think that it'd take one heck of a laser to fry wet leaves on a train track. The whole thing sounds like a boondoggle to me.

    --
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    - Douglas Adams

    1. Re:Even if their wet? by MyLongNickName · · Score: 4, Insightful

      1) They're*
      2) Dear God, people, attaching lasers to anything makes it epic cool. What the hell has happened to Slashdot?

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    2. Re:Even if their wet? by joe_frisch · · Score: 3, Funny

      We need to test all the competing technologies for this to pick the best:

      1) high power lasers.
      2). Flame throwers
      3). High power plasma discharges.
      4). rocket-propelled Anti-leaf attack drones
      5). Jets of ClF3
      6) Anti-proton beams.
      7). Brushes
      8) US only: a guy walking ahead of the train with a broom.

      then we can see which is the most cost effective and safe - and get some cool youtube videos as well.

  3. Re:Fire by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The material immediately below the leaf is going to be a steel rail, which takes some work to get burning; but this would seem to be a concern if the tracks have some leaves on them; but also leaves/brush/grass/trash/etc. gathered around the tracks themselves. Ablating a thin layer of leaf from a big chunk of steel isn't so bad; but you only have to get unlucky occasionally for bits of burning leaf to fall from the clearance site and land in something suitably tindery and start a decent little fire.

  4. Re:Umm... by jandrese · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think the concern isn't dry leaves so much as wet ones that are plastered to the rail like decals on a middle school girl's notebook.

    --

    I read the internet for the articles.
  5. Popular trife... by MindPrison · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Trains May Soon Come Equipped With Debris-Zapping Lasers"

    The lovely word "may" is such an abused word. There are MANY things that MAY come, on the other hand it MIGHT not as well. My money is on that it won't be here anytime soon. There are so many technical and impractical issues that arise, that this is nothing more than a "wow...lasers, we're so 1337" 21 century etc. Sure, it makes for a good read, and even better...the house-geek will have his say over the dinner table...say...did you know honey, they're putting lasers in front of the trains now to clear the tracks. OOOOh honey, that's just up your Dart Vader alley!

    Guess what? I've been working with technology and prototyping for years, and it's a riot every time this actually surfaces as an article once in a blue moon, you can't just put high power lasers in front of trains, you'll have reflection issues, IR-radiation, people claiming blindness, and the kind of power you need to "zap" it clean is extreme, this isn't your average laser pointer that can be used to write your name into a cellphone or pop balloons, heck...even hefty industrial lasers used to cut metal are so focused and concentrated that if you wanted to use it to blast away debris...you'd need a HECK of a lot more space for it to be actually practical, not to mention the need for cooling.

    --
    What this world is coming to - is for you and me to decide.
  6. Re:Calibration by bigtrike · · Score: 4, Informative

    Leaves burn well below the annealing temperature of most steels.

  7. Re:Calibration by smellsofbikes · · Score: 5, Informative

    Sorry to reply to myself but since Wikipedia doesn't actually bother to talk about mechanisms, I will. You can remove a surface with a laser through heating, which applies enough photons to the surface atoms that they vibrate loose, which is a slow process that transmits piles of heat downwards. Or you can use a laser whose wavelength is shorter than the strength of the sigma electron bonds in the material, in which case the electrons absorb the photons, get popped into a higher orbital, and the bond that held the two atoms together simply isn't there anymore and the now free atoms can just drift away. There is in theory no heat generated at all. In practice there are so many photons coming in all at once that there's a metric buttload of photons being absorbed by everything, so what actually happens is the wavefront hits and turns the first couple of atomic layers into a plasma, that erupts away from the surface and leaves the underlying surface close to untouched. So that's the mechanistic difference between burning and ablation: photon flux and wavelength.

    --
    Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
  8. Technology adaptation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    About a decade ago the Brits had a slew of leaves-on-the tracks failure-to-brake accidents. Why now? everyone thought. In a bunch of places the embankments had been designed for coal-burning trains, which spit sparks, so the embankments were gravelled or very sparsely grassed. What trees the fires didn't suppress were cut down as seedlings every few years.

    Time passes, the engines change fuel, someone notices they're spending money on maintaining the gravel and stops.

    *Decades* pass and there are beautiful trees on the embankments tall enough to shed onto the tracks -- *that's* when the accidents start.