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Overly Familiar Sci-Fi

An anonymous reader writes: Science fiction author Charlie Stross has a thoughtful post about an awkward aspect of the genre: too often, books set in the distant future seem far too familiar to us. Our culture evolves quickly — even going back 100 years would be a difficult transition to get used to. But when we're immersed in a culture 500 years ahead of us, everything's pretty much the same, but with spaceships. He says, "You can make an argument for writing SF in this mode in that it allows the lazy reader to ignore the enculturation issue and dive straight into the adventure yarn for which the SFnal trappings are just a brightly-colored wrapper. But I still find it really weird to read a far-future SF story that doesn't deliver a massive sense of cultural estrangement, because in the context of our own history, we are aliens." Some authors put more effort into this than others, but Stross points out that most just use it as a backdrop to tell a particular story. He concludes, "if you're not doing it to the cultural norms as well as the setting and technology, you're doing it wrong."

43 of 368 comments (clear)

  1. you're doing it wrong by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because there is a right well to tell fictional stories?

    If your express something using cultural references nobody has ever used before, maybe you're doing it wrong.

    1. Re:you're doing it wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Exactly. There is no right or wrong in fiction writing. This guy is just full of it and stuck in his own rut.

    2. Re:you're doing it wrong by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Exactly. There is no right or wrong in fiction writing. This guy is just full of it and stuck in his own rut.

      Even worse, he feels entitled to tell writers that they ought to be catering to his preferences specifically, and implicitly that they should feel bad about writing for other people's preferences.

      He should, instead, be writing nice reviews about the authors who write the way he likes. Maybe it will catch on by increasing popularity, but the only effect the entitlement mentality ever has is to drive people away from his position. His essay will probably have no impact at all, but if it does, not in the direction he hopes.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    3. Re:you're doing it wrong by plopez · · Score: 3, Insightful

      "But the core values within a family - has that changed much?"

      Yes. First off women could not vote as you pointed out. Secondly women had far fewer career choices and thus less economic freedom. They were expected in general to be barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. If they aspired to anything more than that the husband was often expected to "keep his wife in line", which often meant administering regular beatings. Women and children were considered chattel, a state not much better than live stock. Women could have their bank accounts raided by their husbands, assuming the bank allowed her to have one, and he could drink it away but she had no access to his. Children could essentially be sold into slavery in a factory or mine. Men were also expected to 'keep his kids in line'.

      And the biblical version of 'traditional family values' often involved polygamy and an exchange of cattle.

      Whenever I hear some preacher or politician talk about returning to traditional family values I shudder.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    4. Re:you're doing it wrong by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The real problem is that he doesn't recognize the various purposes of story-telling.

      1. Teaching: Making people consider some aspect of themselves, their ideas, prejudices and presumptions. You can't do that effectively with all the clutter of a completely alien setting.

      2. Entertainment: People are not going to be entertained if they have to spend all their attention trying to figure out what the context is - if it's so alien that they need a series of intro courses in xenology before they can grok the story, they're not going to be entertained any more than trying to entertain them with a game that has a rule-book thicker than an encyclopedia (Sheldon Cooper excepted).

      3. Reflection of society as it is and (optionally) as what the writer thinks it could become: Think of it as running a thought experiment, while at the same time preserving on record the social values of the day. Look at the works of Jules Verne, H.G. Wells, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, etc.

      4. People. It's about PEOPLE, people! Ultimately, if all the characters are so alien (no humans or human-like characters) that we cannot see even a bit of ourselves in any of them, it's more an exercise in mental masturbation than in story-telling.

      5. Motivation: Sci-fi gradually got enough people used to the idea of going to the moon that, when Kennedy gave his speech, he wasn't laughed out of office. Imagine if he had given that same speech 50 years earlier ... (see - fictional story lines with alternate universes aren't that hard to come by, as long as they have to have something the reader can relate to :-)

      In other words, whether it's a sci-fi, a crime thriller, an adventure tale, for our purposes we're doing it right.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:you're doing it wrong by xevioso · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All of these are true, except that this holds true for all genres. Sci-Fi isn't just any genre; it has an additional purpose, which is to explore ideas, settings, and technology that don't yet exist. It is, by it's very nature speculative, and that should be item #6 on your list. And I think the argument is that sci-fi is not speculative enough. In this I would tend to agree.

      The last good book I read that was truly speculative and actually pushed sci-fi in ways I havent seen in a long time is China Mieville's Embassytown.
      A must -read.

  2. Nonsense by crow · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Look how similar our culture is to that of the Roman Empire. Yes, technology has changed every aspect of how things are done, but the culture itself isn't much different. The Roman historian Suetonius was writing thousands of years ago about how they were upset about the decay of family values.

    1. Re:Nonsense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Pretty much. Powerful empire heavily extended into foreign occupations? Social mobility degraded and rotting from within? Permanent underclass who have to serve in the military for a chance at life? Completely open bribery of politicians?

    2. Re:Nonsense by Trepidity · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Have you read much about Roman culture? You can pull out bits that are similar (like the timeless complaint about decay of family values you mention), but by and large the societies seem quite foreign to me.

    3. Re:Nonsense by novium · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you think that Roman culture is familiar, it has more to do with the way you're projecting your own cultural interpretations on ancient texts. That isn't really a harsh criticism, everyone does it. we make sense of things by the tools we're used to.

      But you should be leery of the familiar, it's usually a tell-tale sign that you're misleading yourself. Suetonius is a great example. You miss a lot of what he's actually saying- in the context of his times and culture- and what he actually meant and was responding to.

    4. Re:Nonsense by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 2

      Exactly. It's a bit like traveling to other countries and foreign cultures today. Languages, daily habits and circumstances of living can be very different from the outside, but once you've get to know them people are essentially the same everywhere - worrying about jobs, love, passions, etc.

      If you'd be catapulted into the 15th Century, you'd be able to connect immediately to the people without any problems except for the language and some external habits (norms of politeness, classes, way to dress) that can indeed change drastically over time. (And you cannot change the latter arbitrarily as an author, because you would not be understood and you're writing for today.)

    5. Re:Nonsense by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      And a certain monotheistic religion...

      There's also the aqueducts.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    6. Re:Nonsense by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      Second, most writers still use the novel format, which is around 400 years old in it's current format. This is different from older western forms, which tended to be more spoken word, such as Beowulf You can still buy 400 year old novels such Don Quixote. I would suspect that if one were doing something new, then moving from the novel format, or at least messing with it as Kurt Vonnegut did, would be the minimal requirement.

      Another interesting one to read if you can is "The Life and Opinions of Tristram Shandy, Gentleman" from 1769. Or at least look at. I failed to get more than about 1/4 of the way through.

      The entire thing makes a complete mockery of the concept of "postmodern" since it did that first hundreds of years earlier and only about 50 years after the novel format realy settled out in its current form (not a series of letters, short stories or poetry). It's also packed full of pop culture references (I mean really stuffed---it's impossible to read without the footnotes which explain what the hell was current in terms of slang, memes and so on circa 1769).

      Despite being next to unreadable, many of the things---zanyness, kind of random humour, pop culture refrecing, bizarre, random pictures---are things many people think of as recent but aren't and feel really familiar.

      For more entertainment, read the commentary about the book from when it was written. By all accounts it was as almost as unreadable then as it was then. However some people latched on to it as the height of sophistication, so people argued about whether it was good or a total crock.

      Basically you could transplant the entire thing to now and it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    7. Re:Nonsense by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      "Projecting your own cultural interpretations on ancient texts."

      For a very clear example of this, look at anyone who uses the phrase 'biblical marriage.'

    8. Re:Nonsense by careysub · · Score: 2

      And let's not forget the downfall of the Roman empire included the introduction of homosexuality.

      Odd. The collapse of the Western Roman Empire seems to correlate far more closely in time with the adoption of a homophobic religion.

      --
      Starships were meant to fly, Hands up and touch the sky - Nicky Minaj
  3. Let's talk about sex, baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Lois McMaster Bujold does it very well, in her Vorkosigan-saga books, where she touches upon cultural attitudes to sex.

    On Beta colony, when a girl has her first period, she visits the doctor and has her hymen removed, an pregnancy-suppression device inserted, her ears pierced, and get to pick colour-coded ear-studs, signalling to everybody what her relation-status is, and what she is interested in.

    And she gets to have sex with whoever she wants, there are no STDs anymore, and she can't get pregnant without government approval.

    Which is a fascinating thought, because let's face it: Controlling people's sexuality, has a lot more to do with cultural and especially religiously ingrained norms, than it has to do with any kind of harm.
    And we aren't so stupid as to think that minors don't want to have sex. Are we?

    1. Re:Let's talk about sex, baby by SteveAstro · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Which is rather Stross' point. Here is an example where the cultural norm is wildly different from your own, and you can't imagine it. It might be perfectly acceptable in that culture to say "not interested", it was also important, in the context of the culture Bujold was describing, for reproduction to be controlled, because of extremely limited resources under a dome colony. An extra mouth to feed, and lungs to breath the air was significant to everyone's resources.

    2. Re:Let's talk about sex, baby by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It's not an 'alien' concept to you. You are fully aware of the concept. You just don't do it.
      Kids carrying ID to school is not an Alien concept. Its frequently discussed.
      They have name tags, school IDs, uniforms, all variants of IDs.

      You might have personal reasons for not carrying an ID, or opposing kids with IDs but its hardly an 'Alien' concept.

      Your just being obnoxious.

      And technically in the US no state actually requires you to have an ID. Well, except maybe Arizona.
      You do need a drivers license to drive a car. It's more like that, at the appropriate reproductive age you need a license to show you can freely engage in sex with anyone, anyone. Both girls and men get to carry these.
      No one in the stories cares, because they have no stigma regarding sex itself. They don't see it as controlling.

      If you still insist it is controlling even though the society as represented in the book does not, then perhaps you are the reason authors don't introduce lots of 'Alien' concepts in their books.

  4. Greg Bear by MrKaos · · Score: 2

    Eon is a particularly good place to see how it is done properly. Far too many stories like Star Trek and Star Wars are just accelerations of today, which is fun, but ultimately unsatisfying.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  5. Re:It's done on purpose by dbIII · · Score: 2

    Lem is a very good example of that, as is Phillip K. Dick for other consequences of risk. Lem may have been executed if his satire had a contemporary setting. Phillip K. Dick couldn't sell his contemporary novel "confessions of a crap artist" but publishers accepted his style when he wrote SF.

  6. Thinking sci-fi readers knew this all along. by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not like science fiction is new, it's got a history. And anyone who's familiar with that history knows that writers write in their era for an audience of that era. Not to mention for the acquisitions editors of their era.

    So Victorian wonder story writers took imperialism for granted. Golden age writers took gender roles for granted -- even women like C.L. Moore. Sci-fi in the sixties was imbued with counter-culture and counter-counter-culture in a way that strikes us as dated today. And it's OK; if you like the good old stuff, as many of us do, much of the pleasure is in the perspective it offers in how the real world has changed.

    An author has no duty other than to reward the time a reader spends with his work. It's certainly an admirable ambition to entertain people by challenging their assumptions, but the very nature of that challenge is a moving target. Ultimately you still have to tell a story that makes sense to your contemporary readers, unless you plan on dumping your story straight into a time capsule -- and good luck with that. Fortunately future audiences can make allowances for things you don't get right today, just the way we make allowances for the good old stuff.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  7. Keeping it Readable by Zobeid · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yes, I also have griped about SF that shoehorns the distant future into the mold of today, or of the past. I have special disdain for those who want to recreate the wild west, or the age of piracy, or empires of the past with space opera trappings. If you love the old west, write westerns, man! The obsession with FTL travel (which seems unlikely to ever really become possible) also ties in with this.

    To my way of thinking, conventional literature at its best explores the human condition. SF at its best explores how the human(-ish) condition could be different. SF that doesn't make it different seems like wasted potential, a missed opportunity.

    However...

    I learned a long time ago that SF stories and SF writers have limitations that they must work within. SF is about ideas, and there are limits to how many new and unfamiliar ideas you can cram into a story without either losing your readers or getting lost yourself. Your readers are embedded in the culture of today. Even if you as a writer can mentally break out of the culture of today, bringing your readers along for that ride is extremely difficult.

    You might want to write a story exploring the potential of AI and robotics. Or nuclear fusion power. Or asteroid mining. Or molecular manufacturing. Or life extension. All good topics. Now try to write a novel where *all* of those scenarios have become real and are interacting with one another. Oops... That's going to be really hard to pull off without ending up in a muddled mess, and it's also going to be hard to explore each of those ideas in the depth it deserves. (Especially if you also have, you know... characters, and a plot, and so forth!)

  8. bruce sterling's guide to sci-fi by lkcl · · Score: 5, Interesting

    bruce sterling wrote an extremely funny and valuable guide to sci-fi writers which i've mentioned here before on slashdot, and it has been expanded ever since. ah yeah here we go: http://www.sfwa.org/2009/06/tu... it's well-worth reading just for amusement value. the ironical thing is that this well-known sci-fi author, charles stross, is telling us that many sci-fi authors today are falling into some of the traps outlined by that lexicon and valuable guide.

    whilist it seems flippant therefore to be telling them "write better sci-fi!" it has to be said that sci-fi writers have set themselves a much harder task than any other writing genre. first and foremost: they need to be good story tellers! and almost secondary to that, they need to be extremely knowledgeable about technology... *because their readers are*. whenever i read a new sci-fi novel by an author that i've never heard of before - and i do not do that often because it is a risk - i often find myself critiquing the author's style. anything where they assume i am an idiot (by doing things like explaining cloud computing to me), that's when the magic of the story is lost, and i know i just read a story by someone who is not going to ever be a successful sci-fi writer. it's a fine line to walk.

    1. Re:bruce sterling's guide to sci-fi by Bite+The+Pillow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      There are plenty of bright ideas that don't require the elaborate setup, and the point could be lost if constructed against that background. This expectation seems to be a preference for a particular style of far-future sci-fi, where other people may have a different preference. Stross is mistaking his own preferences for wisdom.

      The difficulty is in framing the story, so that the reader is a natural audience for the narrator.

      If you are a tyrant of Jupiter, for example, there are things that people on Earth might not be aware of, and those things can be described as if they are new. There are things, though, that you would not explain, because they are universal. Communications would need no description, fashion would need only the differences pointed out.

      It is no different from telling a timeless story of just people, without describing the people directly. Letting their actions define if they are good or bad, friendly or distant, all with no actual descriptions. Only now you have to have a narrative point to describe all of the differences, without sounding like a dictionary.

      Stross doesn't seem to care about the readability or art - just the scenarios. Sure he claims the opposite. But if I created an entirely new culture for every story, there would be so much work going in to the backgrounding, of the environment and the people and how everything is interconnected - you're asking for epic invention every time. Vast amounts of outlining would be required, just to make sure that points don't contradict each other. The notes and fact sheets or "encyclopedia" could well be hundreds of times larger than it would be in order to get a point across. And none of that work is the actual writing that people will read.

      A thousand page book would benefit from a huge amount of background work. But there's the normal work, and on top of that creating a new culture. I would expect that from maybe 10% of the writers, with the rest forgiven for not being so thorough because the writing is better, or the ideas are better, or even the books are cheaper, or are popular among people not named Stross.

  9. Star Trek is a Great Example by NicBenjamin · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But one thing that I always think is really weird when watching it is that all the cultural references are things that would be familiar to a late 20th century NPR-listening American. One of my favorite book series (Honor Harrington by David Weber) uses a lightly different period. It's references are almost universally to things that would be familiar to people who spend a lot of time with late 18th the early 20th century Western Military History.

    It seems weird, but in a lot of ways that's the point. Star Trek isn't a sophisticated imagining of how culture could change if certain technologies appeared. It's about how a polity built on principles every 60s liberal would love (including a fairly muscular, militaristic, foreign policy that a lot of current liberals hate) acts IN SPACE. You don't hear anything about post 20th-century culture, shit that happened outside the main storyline, internal Federation politics (ie: who did Kirk vote for? why?), economic matters (for example once replicator technology exists almost all sectors of the economy are obsolete, because instead of spending months raising a chicken you can spend 2 seconds beaming a perfectly cooked chicken breast into existence, yet half the time they act like the economy is identical to the current US economy and the other half it's a socialist utopia), etc. It is barely Sci-Fi, because (unlike Star Wars) it actually cares how the technology works, and occasionally has story-lines based on said technology (ie: Riker gets cloned by a Transporter, every one of those hateful Holodeck episodes, etc.).

    Weber's Honorverse is a bit more Sci-Fi, because he has actually put an awful lot of thought into precisely how the tech affects the culture, but he designed the tech specifically so that he could do things like create a massive ethnic Chinese Empire based on Frederick the Great.

  10. Diversity is good, especially in SciFi by Morgaine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Because there is a right well to tell fictional stories?

    There isn't a single right way because there are infinite possible futures, and it's reasonable to assume that inventive SciFi authors would want to explore that huge space of possibilities. There are unlimited right ways.

    Nor is there a single wrong way, but if all authors narrow their horizons to describing only simplistic futures in which most cultural elements remain unchanged then clearly there is a problem of deliberate myopia which will inevitably lead to a poverty of novel material.

    It's a bit like surrounding oneself with yes-men --- it doesn't promote pushing the envelope and expanding the mind in new directions. In the context of SciFi, if cultural elements are shackled to present-day norms then it creates a literary monoculture with very few interesting elements. Even worse, it's factually incorrect, since we know that cultures change strongly with time.

    It is acceptable to be factually incorrect in fiction, but when a whole genre that is predicated on gazing into the future knowingly avoids addressing cultural change then there is indeed a problem, and a very big one. SciFi readers deserve better than just present day stories adorned with spaceships.

    --
    "The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
    1. Re:Diversity is good, especially in SciFi by TWX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Probably one of the biggest problems authors in-general have is making the societies or protagonistic characters advocate for things that they don't agree with. That seems to be easier for authors of historical fiction since they have an existing historical context from which the character's perspectives can be built, but it's much harder to create a protagonist or society that's not seen as flawed within the context of itself but has opinions, characteristics, or behavior that we as readers find to be wrong. Those traits are usually reserved for the antagonsitic characters, to help us to judge them.

      Even the heavyweights have done this. It's not common to find a society built on an intentional oligarchy or dictatorship that's viewed in a positive light by the main characters. It's not common to find sexual behavior that we find to be truly anathema nowadays (and I'm not talking simple polyamory or group sexual encounters) to be represented as positive or normal.

      Trouble of it is, if an author develops a culture in a fictional work that does advocate something far outside of what's socially legal or acceptable, that author will probably not find a large audience for the work, and might find one's self made an example of as a degenerate author on the evening news. The "Think of the children!" aspect.

      As a consequence you'll never see these things portrayed as socially acceptable and positive at the same time.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re: Diversity is good, especially in SciFi by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Informative

      How about a culture that practices sex the same way the black widow spider does - by eating their mate? (ritual cannibalism)

      How about a future human culture that has no men (Houston, Houston, Do You Read?)

      What about a culture where people are allowed to "abort" children up to the age of 5 (short story I read years ago).

      Well, that's a start ...

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    3. Re:Diversity is good, especially in SciFi by Immerman · · Score: 3, Informative

      That's wonderful - if you want one of the major threads of your story to be the weird shit that has become normal. Otherwise it's just noise that serves to discomfit the reader while making the writer's job more difficult, without any benefit.

      Hey, you know what else won't be the same? Language! Try to talk with an english speaker from 500 years ago and you'll find the language has changed to the point that it's a struggle to understand. How come all these SF writers have everyone talking in contemporary english - that's just not realistic.

      Oh wait, that would be silly - the spoken language is just a vehicle for the storytelling, mangling it arbitrarily in the interest of "plausability" serves no purpose and just makes it more difficult for the reader to focus on the important story elements.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    4. Re: Diversity is good, especially in SciFi by TWX · · Score: 3, Informative

      Well, to give you some in-fiction examples that are portrayed negatively, in Brave New World blatant hedonism from childhood is not only condoned, it is taught. In The Handmaid's Tale, sex among unmarried couples is essentially forbidden, except to those powerful men that have been given extra women for the declared purpose of breeding, and those men are also essentially free to have sex with any women that offer it or sell it despite what the law actually says, and despite their having crafted the law in the first place. In Dune, Baron Harkonnen wants to have sex with anyone that he finds beautiful, whether they're family, or children, or otherwise don't want him. Also in the Dune universe, the Bene Gesserit intended to force the children of Paul Atreides to incest, to breed the Kwisatz Haderach, not realizing that Paul himself was it, through their multigenerational breeding programme that they'd subjected the Atreides family to.

      Then you have real-world examples of past behaviors that are now anathema. The ancient Greeks apparently had adult men engage in sexual behavior with children and it was not considered a problem. In war, up through and including current times, soldiers that are typically men will rape women and girls in occupied territory. It probably isn't as common in the militaries of Western nations as it once was, but I don't doubt that it still happens even among supposedly civilized people, and it's claimed that it's commonplace in wars among developing nations. It's only recent that Western nations have made it a crime to rape one's wife, and it's still not implemented everywhere. During the American period where slavery was permitted, rape of a slave was not a crime, and after slavery ended, rape of a black person by a white person was de facto legal as it was really never prosecuted.

      I can't think of any fiction where these are not only not considered bad, but are considered good.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    5. Re:Diversity is good, especially in SciFi by dgatwood · · Score: 2

      With a little effort, you can read middle English from 600 years ago. Before that, it's really tough, and even that can be problematic. 500 years is about the limit. The last time English really changed radically was after the Norman invasion of 1066, which brought a strong French and Latin influence, rapidly changing English from an almost purely Germanic language into a hybrid Germanic and Romance (Latinate) language. At this point, modern English is widespread enough that it is probably unlikely to suffer that fate again.

      However, even as late as six or seven hundred years ago, English was still a very different language than it is today. As spelling became standardized in the 15th and 16th centuries, pronunciation changed quite a bit, resulting in both the great vowel shift and the transition from Middle English to Modern English. Those changes were mostly finished by the late 1500s (though the vowel shift continued into the 1600s), and since then, the core of the language has been pretty close to constant.

      I mean yes, English has changed a bit since Shakespeare—a few slangy secondary meanings of words have fallen into disuse, causing certain bawdy puns to no longer be funny, some pronouns (e.g. thee and thou) have fallen into disuse, causing them to seem archaic (but still widely understood), and we had a big spelling simplification in the U.S., mostly in an act of rebellion against Britain, but otherwise the core of the language basically hasn't evolved at all. Instead, the language has mostly just added new words for new concepts that didn't exist previously and borrowed words from other cultures to describe local foods, clothing, and so on.

      Why? Three things really cemented the language in place: the strength of the British Empire (not getting taken over again), the advent of the printing press, and the resulting rise in literacy. It is likely that the rise of global communication will slow the evolution of language even more, as standardization improves (though one might look at a typical Facebook post and argue the exact opposite, but I digress).

      So assuming we discovered a way to freeze somebody for 500 years, there's a lot of things they'd be confused by, but I'd be very surprised if the English language were one of them, notwithstanding minor spelling changes and new words for things that haven't been invented yet. I doubt they'd even be shocked by people's accents in 500 years, much less have trouble understanding the words. After all, the rise of audiovisual recordings is likely to nail down pronunciation in much the same way that the Gutenberg press nailed down spelling and grammar.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    6. Re:Diversity is good, especially in SciFi by Bonus+Mop · · Score: 2

      The novelization of Asimov's "Nightfall" had a preface along these lines. It's probable been 20 years since I read the book, so I won't get this completely correct, but in a nutshell, Asimov (or possibly Silverberg) pointed out that he could have gone out of his way to invent a new language and a new culture for the characters in his book. However, doing so wouldn't have added to the story. The story tells us something about humanity. He had to invent a specific star system to do this, and since it wasn't Sol, the main characters had to be alien to make the details work. But in every other way that mattered, the characters were us. Drastic changes to language or culture would have only muddled the underlying story. This preface changed how I viewed science fiction. I still prefer hard science to fantasy, but if the story has someone 500 years from now using modern-day idioms in dialog, I can live with that. It helps me understand their thoughts and actions, and that's why I'm reading it after all.

  11. Re:The first rule by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 2

    I cannot think of a single good fiction novel that is only entertainment. The idea of fiction is that you have less restrictions as a writer to make the point and develop the story you want to, be that for entertainment or other purposes.

    But it's true that there is a mass market of fiction books that is intended only to entertain, and that's totally okay. It's just not a "rule".

  12. you want change? by Connie_Lingus · · Score: 4, Insightful

    about a month ago i was reading a 20th century US history book and discovered that Calvin Coolidge, Jr,, president Calvin Coolidge's 15 year old son, died from a blister on his foot he got when playing tennis on the White House lawn in 1924.

    consider that for a moment...only 90 years ago, the son of perhaps the most powerful and well connected man on the earth died from a blister. playing tennis.

    if this doesn't explain truly how much and how quickly things have changed, i'm not sure what could.

    --
    never bring a twinkie to a food fight.
  13. There's a (sub)genre for that... by Cinnamon+Beige · · Score: 2

    It's called 'social science fiction' and my experience is that it tends to anger people and be poorly written, though on the whole there isn't a complete overlap between the two and the first can be due primarily to the latter. It's one of those places where having an actual idea of how society and cultures actually work makes a huge difference, and the majority of writers seem to try backfilling from the culture they want the future to have regardless of how likely it is, in fact, to ever happen--the purpose, ultimately, is wish fulfillment and to try to push their own sociopolitical ideology, though it's not necessarily their authorial intent.

    I'm really not sure how Charles Stoss might have failed to be aware of the genre's existence and its problems, though I can easily and cheerfully say that he's certainly wrong about the amount of culture shock a switch from 2014 to 1914 (or the other way around) would be. People don't change that much; the main changes would be in what technology is in use, and what things we consider appropriate in public. (For example, Western culture has lost a lot of the distinction between public and private behavior.)

    More importantly, though, is that social science fiction tends to date itself quite swiftly, especially if the story is one of the wish fulfillment types and how the ideology works in practice has become better known. Then there's examples like 1890's Caesar's Column, which is set the 1980s...

    Honestly, what might be more interesting is a science fiction novel exploring the possibility that things like the internet could result ultimately in the primary stream of culture not changing as much anymore, and the consequences of stabilization of the primary culture...

  14. As usual, Stross is spot-on by gweihir · · Score: 2

    That is a reason why he will always have trouble being really successful, because most people want what is familiar in their entertainment, spiced only with a little divergence. On the other hand, those that do not have this limitation (few) will always be looking at what authors like him produce and with global distribution selling enough of what cannot sell to the masses because of its high quality gets easier.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  15. What people want to read by danaris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The biggest problem with what Stross is saying is that people, in general, want to read about situations that are familiar to them. It's damn hard to come up with a truly believable far-future culture in the first place, but it's much harder to do so in a way that makes it both alien to us and something that people can identify with enough to actually enjoy reading.

    If you really follow Stross's advice when writing far-future sci-fi, you're likely to lock yourself into a very small niche of potential readers. And if you're writing that way because that's the story you want to write, or because you truly believe it's important to the integrity of the story that the culture be very different than our own, and you're OK with selling a few thousand copies or less, then that's fine. But I dare say most sci-fi authors who actually publish do so because, at least in part, they actually want to have people read their books, and to make a little money off them.

    Dan Aris

    --
    Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.
    1. Re:What people want to read by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      A lot of SF is a satirical funhouse mirror held up to the present. You're supposed to read the story in terms of a familiar society.

  16. 6. Profit, too by mrflash818 · · Score: 2

    I imagine that, if a book portrays a future too different, the reader may not find it enjoyable, relate-able, or worth recommending to their other sci-fi reading acquaintances

    So, unless the author has other revenue streams, they are dis-incentivized to write something 'too far out.'

    --
    Uh, Linux geek since 1999.
    1. Re:6. Profit, too by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      Compare historical fiction - and note that most historical fiction depicts a culture far more similar to our own than that which actually existed at the time.

  17. Re:Heinlein by PPH · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes. And I still remember the blow-back when a bunch of us read Stranger in a Strange land back in high school. The kids from socially conservative backgrounds rejected it as garbage. Because it was inconceivable that anything would ever challenge the established Judeo-Christian foundations of our culture.

    Some authors do investigate culturl changes that could be brought on by new technology or contact with alien cultures. But they risk rousing the rage of those who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.

    Interesting note: In The Day the Earth Stood Still, the revival of Klaatu (after being shot and killed) had to be explained as 'temporary' so as not to enrage Christian audiences.

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  18. kettle calling... by fikx · · Score: 2

    this from an author that includes slashdot in his far-future scifi

    --
    AB HOC POSSUM VIDERE DOMUM TUUM
  19. Problem - we live in the future. by Leo+Sasquatch · · Score: 2

    This morning, the radio switched itself on and gently brought me awake with the news. After 10 minutes, I rolled out from under the duvet and reflected how the money we'd spent on that memory foam mattress had been totally worth it. 5 minutes in the shower saw me both cleaner and more awake in equal measure, and I rapped on my son's door as I went past. I'm sure he was on the Xbox until 3:00 a.m., and he knows it's a uni day, but there was no response. I made some scrambled eggs in the microwave, and by the time the toast had popped and the kettle had boiled for a cup of instant, I felt almost human. The bus stop isn't far from my house, and I paid my £3 and took my seat. My phone picked up the wi-fi automatically, so I pointed my browser at the BBC and started streaming an episode of ISIRTA I hadn't heard, before settling in for a few games of Angry Birds. Halfway to work, the sun was rising over the Pentlands, so I grabbed a couple of quick shots, and updated my facebook status.

    When I got to work, I flashed my badge at the building and it let me in. I'd checked the rota the night before and knew I was gutter rat this week- cleaning up the messes, so I downloaded the overnight error logs to my workstation and got busy tracing batch script failures. Peter, Mandy and Eddie were already there, but my team leader, Meera, was off ill, so I covered her phone. 3 cappuccinos, and 16 error logs later it was lunchtime, and I'd been so busy, I hadn't even gone out for a cigarette.


    A normal morning, slightly compressed to fit everything in. There's a lot in there. Socio-economic status, employment, I'm old enough to have a son at university, the fact that my immediate boss is both female and non-Caucasian, no smoking in the building. The team's split roughly equally on gender lines. Eddie's gay, but that won't enter into the story so I'll never mention it. There's a lot of implicit assumptions - the reader will know what an Xbox is, cultural references. Never mind 100 years, you only have to roll it back 10 years for the 'Angry Birds' and 'Facebook' items to have no intrinsic meaning. Roll it back just 50 and we lose 'Xbox', 'microwave', 'memory foam', 'wi-fi', 'browser' as words, and the concepts that go along with their use. And how would I take shots of the sunrise without a camera? 'Streaming' is still a word, but the context is missing. And in 1964, the idea that my boss at any job, let alone a technical one, would be female and non-Caucasian, would be pretty unusual. Why would I leave the building for a cigarette? And what's with £3 for bus fare to work - where do I live, the Outer Hebrides? How did I get cappuccinos at work? Why have I got a phone on a bus?

    We live in a world that would have largely been science fiction just 50 years ago. Extrapolating was hard then, and harder now. You don't need the Singularity or a post-scarcity economy to mess things up, just the micro-processor and the Internet. Nobody saw them coming. The changes they've brought have been so staggering in magnitude that it makes it all the more obvious that attempting to predict the future changes is getting sillier all the time.

    Mr Stross writes lovely Mythos stories, and Accelerando is pretty good. But the one I'm trying to read at the moment, about the immortal robots all pretending to be human after the humans all died out is purely fucking tedious. It's super-futuristic, and the hard science of long, boring planetary travel is well done, but I can't remember its name right now, or the main character, and that never bodes well.