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High Temperature Superconductivity Record Smashed By Sulfur Hydride

KentuckyFC writes Physicists at the Max Planck Institute for Chemistry in Germany have measured sulfur hydride superconducting at 190 Kelvin or -83 degrees Centigrade, albeit at a pressure of 150 gigapascals, about the half that at the Earth's core. If confirmed, that's a significant improvement over the existing high pressure record of 164 kelvin. But that's not why this breakthrough is so important. Until now, all known high temperature superconductors have been ceramic mixes of materials such as copper, oxygen lithium, and so on, in which physicists do not yet understand how superconductivity works. By contrast, sulfur hydride is a conventional superconductor that is described by the BCS theory of superconductivity first proposed in 1957 and now well understood. Most physicists had thought that BCS theory somehow forbids high temperature superconductivity--the current BCS record-holder is magnesium diboride, which superconducts at just 39 Kelvin. Sulfur hydride smashes this record and will focus attention on other hydrogen-bearing materials that might superconduct at even higher temperatures. The team behind this work point to fullerenes, aromatic hydrocarbons and graphane as potential targets. And they suggest that instead of using high pressures to initiate superconductivity, other techniques such as doping, might work instead.

80 comments

  1. Happy Tuesday from The Golden Girls! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Thank you for being a friend
    Traveled down the road and back again
    Your heart is true, you're a pal and a cosmonaut.

    And if you threw a party
    Invited everyone you knew
    You would see the biggest gift would be from me
    And the card attached would say, thank you for being a friend.

  2. Doping? by TWX · · Score: 2, Funny

    I guess these superconductors won't be used in any cycling applications then...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    1. Re:Doping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Quite the contrary. Doping is a requirement for almost all high-performance cycling applications and has been for some time.

    2. Re:Doping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also skiing. You might ask the norwegians how they can dope and get away with it.

    3. Re:Doping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What does skiing have to do with computers you stupid fuck?

    4. Re:Doping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quit being a dopeski.

    5. Re:Doping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Puns. You rascally troll.

    6. Re:Doping? by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 2

      That's not a pun.

    7. Re:Doping? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is an antanaclasis, which can be considered a type of pun. You dope.

    8. Re:Doping? by The+Mysterious+Dr.+X · · Score: 1

      I understand how ants might be involved here, but what in the world is a "clasis"? Is it some kind of bicycle for ants?

    9. Re:Doping? by Maritz · · Score: 1

      Computers are frequently sold with skis, are used while people ski, and most of the most famous computer-related inventors were either obsessed skiers or came up with their designs while skiing. Charles Babbage, for instance, designed the Difference Engine whilst deftly navigating the jumps and horrific reverse-camber turns of the famous Mausefalle slope in the Austrian Alps.

      --
      I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
    10. Re:Doping? by OneSizeFitsNoone · · Score: 1

      It is an antanaclasis, which can be considered a type of pun. You dope.

      What does santaclaus have to do with this?

  3. This does not pass the sniff test by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    It stinks!

  4. Oh Carbon by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Interesting

    fullerenes, aromatic hydrocarbons and graphane

    Oh Carbon, is there anything you can't do?

    Seriously. Superconductors, batteries, capacitors, bullet proof vests, orbital cables, etc...?

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
    1. Re:Oh Carbon by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Melt. At least at standard pressures.

    2. Re:Oh Carbon by Rei · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The nice potential about a carbon-based superconductor would be the possibility that it could be produced very cheaply. Your raw materials are not a price-limiting factor - think "plastic". Thus there's the potential to be way cheaper than copper, yet superconducting. That would be a total game changer to say the least. Lower distribution costs, way more power to the home, far easier to do long-distance transmission, all electric motors being superconducting motors, nearly lossless electronic devices, potential for major improvements in computer performance, cheap maglev, and on and on. There's good reason why affordable room-temperature superconductors are one of the holy grails of modern technology. There's even a type of energy storage system you can make with superconductors - one of the highest power density and efficiency energy storage methods known to man. The energy density will probably always be too low for electric vehicles, but if room temperature superconductors were cheap, that could be amazing for fixed-installation applications.

      --
      "We consider that six courts and an asylum claim are a rather odd way of returning to Sweden within a month."
    3. Re:Oh Carbon by gewalker · · Score: 1

      Well -83 C is very close to the sublimation temperature of dry ice (-78 C) -- maybe with a little tweak you can cool your superconducting carbon using another carbon compound already widely used for cooling.

    4. Re:Oh Carbon by halivar · · Score: 1

      You forgot the most important application: meat. Tasty, tasty meat.

    5. Re:Oh Carbon by lgw · · Score: 1

      I'd worry about magnetic energy storage for any non-industrial use. Aside from the fun one could have with immense magnetic fields, if some fault happens in the system the magnet will quench very quickly - explosively fast - releasing all the stored energy. That made a Hell of a mess when it happened in the LHC (admittedly, a big magnet), but since it was effectively in an underground concrete bunker, no one was hurt. I certainly wouldn't want one that could store a day's power for my house sitting next to my house (and the potential to release the power stored in a tank of gas explosively is no fun for a car either - especially a system that requires active cooling).

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    6. Re:Oh Carbon by Rei · · Score: 1

      I was thinking more along the lines of as an electrical substation out in the desert buffering solar facilities or in the middle of a field buffering wind turbines, not something sitting in people's backyards. But yes, point well taken, the problem with a system with extremely high power density is, well, it can release energy extremely fast ;)

      As for cooling, remember that we're talking about room temperature superconductors here. :)

      --
      "We consider that six courts and an asylum claim are a rather odd way of returning to Sweden within a month."
    7. Re:Oh Carbon by crunchygranola · · Score: 1

      A rapid quench would destroy any magnet, sure, but a sacrificial safe quench system could probably be designed to handle this. Think of composite flywheels that can disintegrate safely. SCES can use conventional metal sacrificial busbar to dump energy into, kinetic energy absorbing materials, a strong case, etc.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    8. Re:Oh Carbon by wagnerrp · · Score: 1

      There's even a type of energy storage system you can make with superconductors - one of the highest power density and efficiency energy storage methods known to man.

      The ultimate capacity of one of these systems is on the par with supercapacitors, and an order of magnitude lower than traditional chemical batteries. Their high power, low capacity, and functionally unlimited cycle life make them useful as a transient power filter, rather than a meaningful energy storage mechanism. Their sudden and nearly instantaneous quench makes them downright frightening as a sizable energy storage mechanism.

    9. Re:Oh Carbon by TrollstonButterbeans · · Score: 1

      150 gigapascals is 1,480,384 (1.5 million) atmospheres of pressure (where Earth = 1). Is there even that pressure density inside Jupiter?

      Doesn't sound very practical except as a raw scientific discovery.

      --
      Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
    10. Re:Oh Carbon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A day's power for your house (OK, average US household) is the same amount of energy as there is in one gallon of gasoline. We're not talking about LHC scale here. Put the thing in a sturdy metal box and you're safe.

    11. Re:Oh Carbon by Rei · · Score: 1

      What you're calling "ultimate capacity", you mean "energy density". Which is borderline irrelevant for fixed installations. The main factors for fixed installations is price per watt hour and longevity. SCES has longevity in spades. It's generally expensive because traditional superconductor materials are expensive and have extreme cooling requirements. But if both of these go away, then the situation is totally different.

      --
      "We consider that six courts and an asylum claim are a rather odd way of returning to Sweden within a month."
    12. Re:Oh Carbon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is there even that pressure density inside Jupiter?

      Center of Jupiter is still two orders of magnitude higher.

    13. Re:Oh Carbon by Firethorn · · Score: 1

      As for cooling, remember that we're talking about room temperature superconductors here. :)

      Is it still room temperature if you're putting them 'out in the desert' next to the solar system without cooling?

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    14. Re:Oh Carbon by lgw · · Score: 1

      A gallon of gasoline has the same energy as 8 kg of TNT! It's all about how fast the energy is released.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    15. Re:Oh Carbon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the traditional quote is "a cup of petrol has the same energy as half a stick of TNT!" - the "!" does not appear to be optional.

    16. Re:Oh Carbon by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Well, according to the second fucking line of TFS, it's half the pressure at the earth's core.

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
    17. Re:Oh Carbon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like your comment, but consistency would be nice. Should be either "according to TSFL of TFS" or "according to the second fucking line of the fucking summary". Personally, I lean toward the latter.

  5. Here is a link for 110C superconductivity by bhlowe · · Score: 2
    1. Re:Here is a link for 110C superconductivity by Artifakt · · Score: 2

      It's nice, but the compound in question only seems to display superconductivity for a while immediately after annealing, and has to be kept away from water or this quickly stops. This still may lead to a sizeable commercial application someday, but that's not by any means likely.

      --
      Who is John Cabal?
    2. Re:Here is a link for 110C superconductivity by bhlowe · · Score: 2

      Seems keeping something dry would be easier than requiring a 150 giga-pascal environment, but I am not a scientist. :) Was hoping someone would clarify nuances of the two "records".

    3. Re:Here is a link for 110C superconductivity by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 4, Informative

      Ah, yes, superconductors.org, otherwise known as "The Superconducting Enquirer" or "Weekly World Superconductors".

      The site has a lot of information about superconductors; some of it is probably quite good. But it's been claiming above-room-temperature superconductivity for a couple of years now. The generally-accepted record for high-temperature superconductivity is around, what, 133 Kelvin? Superconductors.org has been publishing reports of higher temperatures since 2006 or 2007, if not before. While the rest of the world waits for confirmed and reproducible reports, superconductors.org seems to report every errant needle-twitch from every lab that ever tried to measure conductivity.

      I have no doubt that new materials and theories will continue to yield higher transition temperatures. I have no doubt that, whenever that happens, superconductors.org will report it. It's just that you'll have to wade through an awful lot of bogus reports there first.

    4. Re:Here is a link for 110C superconductivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, super vague data showing a transition in resistivity and magnetic data that shows up in a lot of material, but for which they just proclaim can only be achieved by superconductivity... when simple mechanical changes to structure and state could reproduce the same data.

  6. Ayup by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    unreadable website spamming spotted.

  7. Re:Scientists? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    Until now, all known high temperature superconductors have been ceramic mixes of materials such as copper, oxygen lithium, and so on, in which physicists do not yet understand how superconductivity works.

    They can see it works but yet they cannot understand it. Now why should I believe them when they say ghosts don't exists even though my grandma totally swears that she saw one about a month ago?

    You should test it for yourself. See if you can make a superconducting magnet with your grandmother's ghosts.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  8. Re:Scientists? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Because, with the proper equipment and training, you could go and mix up a batch of ceramic superconductor and measure it superconducting for yourself. Or measure one of theirs.

    It seems highly unlikely that your grandma can describe to me exactly how to go about seeing a ghost whenever I want. If she can, I know where she can get a million dollars.

  9. Can someone explain to me by Progman3K · · Score: 1

    How can a material be pressed at 150 gigapascals and still be cool?

    I thought that if you put a billion atmospheres of pressure on material, said material would be heated by the pressure. Is that not so?

    Inquirin' minds want to know

    --
    I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
    1. Re:Can someone explain to me by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      Who said that something can't be cooled after it's been heated through pressurization?

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    2. Re:Can someone explain to me by Russ1642 · · Score: 4, Funny

      That is not so. Changing the pressure will cause a change in temperature in a closed system only. If you also have a cooling apparatus that allows the energy to dissipate then you can have it be any temperature you want, provided your wife doesn't walk by and turn it up again.

    3. Re:Can someone explain to me by Megol · · Score: 1

      Press it - then cool it.

    4. Re:Can someone explain to me by Progman3K · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the light.
      So once pressurized, it is contained in some vessel which is then cooled? Too cool! Literally!
      So how do they squeeze it down? In some sense it is a mechanical operation, right?

      --
      I don't know the meaning of the word 'don't' - J
    5. Re:Can someone explain to me by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

      To nipick, it's actually just under 1.5M atmospheres.

    6. Re:Can someone explain to me by gman003 · · Score: 2

      The constant pressure isn't what produces the heat, it's the act of compression. You compress it, it heats up, you remove that heat, and now you have high pressure and low temperature.

    7. Re:Can someone explain to me by the_povinator · · Score: 1

      I skimmed the paper at
      http://arxiv.org/pdf/1412.0460...
      and found some parts very confusing. E.g. in Fig. 1a, sulfur hydride seems to have critical temperature around 70K at 177GPa, and in Fig. 1b, it seems to have critical temperature of 185K at the same pressure. And the "measurements" in Fig. 4 don't look like measurements, they look like data generated using a mathematical function. Dan

      --
      The .sig is dead, and I believe I had a hand in killing it.
    8. Re:Can someone explain to me by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

      At these pressures they most likely compress it with a hydraulic piston.

      --
      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    9. Re:Can someone explain to me by smaddox · · Score: 1

      Yeah, there's clearly some issue with that figure. Figure 2b seems to support the claim, though. This draft needs some serious editing. I would never submit something at this rough of a state.

  10. Re:Scientists? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because you can repeat the process as many times as you want and get the same answer. You cannot watch the same spot as your grandma and see a ghost. They also log their data, your grandma doesn't carry a camera to record ghosts, does she?

  11. Byebye supercooling, hello pressure containment by GameboyRMH · · Score: 1

    A high-temperature superconductor that requires ungodly pressures...kind of defeats the point doesn't it?

    --
    "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    1. Re:Byebye supercooling, hello pressure containment by RandomAdam · · Score: 1

      Is there a limit to the pressure that "god" can apply? 150GPa is a lot of pressure....but you know it is supposed to have unlimited power etc....

      --
      @Random_Adam

      Sometimes a sig doesn't have to be funny!!
    2. Re:Byebye supercooling, hello pressure containment by rossdee · · Score: 1

      I guess at the center of a black hole there is unlimited pressure, but only god knows what goes on inside the event horizon.

    3. Re:Byebye supercooling, hello pressure containment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A diamond anvil cell can exceed 600 GPa.

    4. Re:Byebye supercooling, hello pressure containment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well zero times zero is zero, so "god" can apply zero pounds of pressure and nothing else.

    5. Re:Byebye supercooling, hello pressure containment by smaddox · · Score: 1

      My take is that the theory for most high temperature superconductors is incomplete, which makes it difficult to find even higher temperature superconductors (because we don't know what to look for). In contrast, the superconductivity present in this sample is well understood and thus these results might suggest where to look next.

  12. super-conductivity = super-resistivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Take time to read Oliver Heaviside "Electrical Papers" - 1893, you will learn a lot about super conductivity or super-resistivity (as he names it, as he is originator of this concept), as he clearly states the misconceptions widely propagated (in space and as clearly see in time) on this issue.

  13. Re:Scientists? by Thud457 · · Score: 2

    How to See Ghosts 101 :
    Develop one or more of the following:
    1. cataracts
    2. glaucoma
    3. macular degeneration

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  14. Space elevator.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So when are we gonna make that Space Elevator from this shit?

    1. Re:Space elevator.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As soon as you DIE because NOBODY'S SPENDING MONEY ON LIFE EXTENSION, you feeble, pathetic former troll.

    2. Re:Space elevator.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, it was an honest question. But i guess that was too hard for you since it seems you misread the post and answered the wrong question!

  15. sulfur hydride vs. hydrogen sulfide... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I was trying to figure out why they're referring to "sulfur hydride" instead of "hydrogen sulfide". After I got off our broken public wifi and got the paper to load, I see that sulfur turns metallic above 95 GPa, and apparently hydrogen sulfide at high pressures starts to become metallic as well. In that regime, it probably makes more sense to think of it as a metal hydride, if not an intermetallic compound.

    1. Re:sulfur hydride vs. hydrogen sulfide... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I chalked it up to physicists not being chemists. I hear some lifeforms are oxygen dihydride based!

  16. Re:Scientists? by bunratty · · Score: 1

    A scientist, like any person, can say anything they want. You shouldn't believe something a scientist says just because they say it. They have opinions and can be wrong just like everyone can. I'm sure some scientists say ghosts exist and others say they don't.

    Science, on the other hand, can find no evidence of ghosts. That doesn't mean they don't exist, however. Science makes no statement one way or the other on the subject of ghosts. They have never been observed, as far as we know, but could still exist.

    --
    What a fool believes, he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away.
  17. Re:Scientists? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 1

    I think we really need tags for content.

  18. Re:Scientists? by theshowmecanuck · · Score: 2

    More importantly, other people should be able to reproduce your results (within statistical significance) if they follow your same procedures.

    --
    -- I ignore anonymous replies to my comments and postings.
  19. Wouldn't you? by Gogogoch · · Score: 5, Funny

    At that pressure sulphur hydride just goes "ok ok take my electrons".

  20. Ah, units. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I looked up the atmospheric pressure of other planets, saw Venus was 92 Earth Atmospheres and thought "wow, that's pretty close to 95 GPa" ...
    Turns out 95 GPa is 937,577 Earth Atmospheres :(

    I wonder if the "surface" or even centre of Jupiter is anywhere near 150 GPa?

    1. Re:Ah, units. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      http://cseligman.com/text/planets/internalpressure.htm 50,000,000 atm at Jupiter's center.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  21. what has an angle on this angle by Thorfinn.au · · Score: 1

    Talk about people using archaic units, the name of the SI user friendly temperature was changed to Celsius in 1948

  22. Here is a link for 110C superconductivity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Badly compressed JPGs? Check. Annoying GIFs on the main page? Check. Bold, colored text in a variety of random formats? Check. Claims of unprecedented scientific breakthroughs? Check. Yeah, I'm going to assume this is a crank site.

  23. Missing theory by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    So we had high-temperature supraconductors that we did not understand, and low temperature supraconductors with a theory. And now this high temperature supraconductor lambasts the theory. How frustrating! We are back to the situation where we do not understand anything.

    1. Re:Missing theory by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

      If observations contradict the theory, then we were ALWAYS in the situation where we did not understand anything. We just didn't realize that we were in that situation -- we "understood" incorrectly.

      The next step to enlightenment is realizing that we always understand incorrectly. We aspire to understand well enough -- well enough to make useful predictions, well enough to provide a foundation for further understanding.

  24. Missing theory by Therefore+I+am · · Score: 1

    But there are many roads to explore and many ways to seek out room temperature superconductivity.

    As with many other discoveries, the stubborn and dedicated researcher will sooner or later find the answer.

    We should never be cutting back on research. It is definitely a situation where more is always better than less.

  25. Centigrade?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Obviously, this article is keeping up with the times!

  26. Prediction comes first! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I read the experimental paper in arxiv. Specifically, the superconducitvity in H2S at high pressure has been predicted in early 2014 (J. Chem. Phys. 140, 040901 (2014)). It is so amazing!