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India Successfully Test Fires Its Heaviest Rocket

vasanth (908280) writes India on Thursday moved forward in rocket technology with the successful flight testing of its heaviest next generation rocket and the crew module . The 630-tonne three-stage rocket, Geo-Synchronous Satellite Launch Vehicle Mark III, carried active solid boosters, liquid core stage and a passive cryo stage and a crew module to test its re-entry characteristics. This rocket is capable of doubling the capacity of payloads India can carry into space and it can deposit up to four tonne class of communication satellites into space. India also plans to use this rocket for ferrying Indian astronauts into space. For India, ISRO (the Indian space agency) perfecting the cryogenic engine technology is crucial as India can save precious foreign exchange by launching heavy duty communication satellites by itself.

56 comments

  1. $25 Million? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 5, Interesting

    TFA says the firing cost $25 Million.

    NASA don't get out of bed for $25 Million.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:$25 Million? by sycodon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The demise of the Apollo program was probably the worst thing that ever happened to American space technology. We are just now regaining knowledge and capability we had in the 70s.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    2. Re:$25 Million? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      if they can really put this thing in orbit for $25M that would be one heck of a good deal. Wikipedia says the payload is 10,000kg to LEO, which would make it half the cost of a Falcon 9 with about 3/4ths of the payload. And even if this is understated, it still looks to be a pretty good $/kg rate.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    3. Re:$25 Million? by cayenne8 · · Score: 2, Funny

      he demise of the Apollo program was probably the worst thing that ever happened to American space technology. We are just now regaining knowledge and capability we had in the 70s.

      But now...we in the US can just go pick up new rockets at the Kwik-E-Mart (albeit at slightly elevated prices).

      Thank you....Come again!!

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:$25 Million? by AikonMGB · · Score: 1

      One of the reasons it is so nice to work with the Indians :)

    5. Re:$25 Million? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Careful throwing numbers around. We have absolutely no idea how accurate that figure is. Could well be 'Bollywood Accounting', could be something made up by a bureaucrat flunky. Could even be real.

      It does presage an era where there are potentially a large number of groups, both government and private, with the capability of launching commercially and strategically significant payloads into LEO or geosynchronous orbit.

      (Raises pinky.)

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    6. Re:$25 Million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The demise of the Apollo program was the inevitable outcome of trying to sustain sending up a skyscraper of advanced technology and getting a small walk in closet and a few astronauts back. Unfortunately it seems its a lesson we're going to have to learn again with SLS as its basically the same system using our current technology. You have to have some level of reusability, I'm not saying that we're going to be able to get space travel near an airline like model anytime soon but we have more than enough technology to at least make stage and a half launchers, or partially reusable vertical launchers (Rombus, Space Shuttle, Falcon 9 (hopefully), etc). The only thing that disposable launchers do is keep defense contractors fed with large cost plus contracts.

    7. Re:$25 Million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "We have absolutely no idea how accurate that figure is."

      Haha, kind of like how NASA threw out that "$500 Million" per launch number for SLS. I think even the best case scenarios put the program cost at over $40 Billion just to get the first 4 or so vehicles off the ground.

    8. Re:$25 Million? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They still haven't build the presumably rather expensive (deeply cryogenic) third stage, so don't count on the final version being so cheap. Plus the improving standards of living in India will inevitably push the price upwards, whereas Falcon development is definitely going to either push the price down or at least stabilize it at a rather low level, if at least one of 1) reusability or 2) increased launch frequency pans out. (The latter is almost certain.) And finally, the advertised Falcon 9 price tag is a market price (with profit margins included), whereas this is presumably just the total sum of expenses for this test (and without the third stage, it will be only a fraction of the launch expenses for the real thing).

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    9. Re:$25 Million? by dotancohen · · Score: 1

      "We have absolutely no idea how accurate that figure is."

      Haha, kind of like how NASA threw out that "$500 Million" per launch number for SLS. I think even the best case scenarios put the program cost at over $40 Billion just to get the first 4 or so vehicles off the ground.

      And considering that they only have 25 SSMEs, the SLS won't see much more than those 4 flights anyway.

      --
      It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
    10. Re:$25 Million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What does Indian Space tech have to do with Bollywood? You just want to sound derisive about India. Why don't you thrown in some irrelevant xenophobic rant about H1B's taking your jaabs, while you are at it?

    11. Re:$25 Million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I forgot that SLS was supposed to use SSMEs, that puts the cost just in engines at $200-280 Million, tack on a couple SRB's at roughly $23Million plus each and your looking at $246-326 not including tanks, fuel, Orion (ATV, Service module, etc). If you use the Delta 4 as a base engines usually are about 20% of the launch vehicle cost which assuming that translates would put SLS at $1Billion per launch not including R&D.

    12. Re:$25 Million? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For India, ISRO (the Indian space agency) perfecting the cryogenic engine technology is crucial as India can save precious foreign exchange by launching heavy duty communication satellites by itself.

      Well given that the Indians have managed to fuck up proven Russian cryogenic engine technology rather frequently, prospective customers might want to wait out the first five or ten paid flight before committing cold hard cash.

    13. Re:$25 Million? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      And the upper stages will have anywhere from one to six (!) RL-10s. Those apparently ain't cheap either.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    14. Re:$25 Million? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      I assume he was making a joke about "hollywood accounting" where people cook the books to make movies look like they do not make a profit, in order to cheat actors dumb enough to get paid out of the profits.

      Certainly all government contracts in the US have the same kind of funny accounting going on. I had been thinking of SpaceX, who is quite up front about the real costs of their flights. But India might very well be like SLS in that there is no way to tell how many untold billions are blown on the thing. Obviously the $25M stated did not include development costs.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  2. How does it compare to Canada's rocket launch? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Here's a video of Canada's most successful rocket launch.

    1. Re:How does it compare to Canada's rocket launch? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Slightly more successful than this.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
  3. Re:Now if India would just invest in its own peopl by Coren22 · · Score: 2

    So you expect all those engineers and scientists to go out of work because you feel that a country shouldn't do anything at all until all its ills are dealt with?

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  4. Outsourcing to India by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    First IT department and now space cargo.

  5. Re:Now if India would just invest in its own peopl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Very impressed by your opinions. Pontificating to 1.25 billion people using a tech website as pulpit takes extraordinary courage and exquisite skill. How do you do it?

  6. nirvana fallacy by aepervius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Or whatever it is alled : expecting all basic ills to be solved before technological progress is considered. It is impracticable in the modern world and asking for it as you seem to do , shows a distinct problem at understanding how the world work. In practice you do not portion your whole finance to some problem as food or sanitation, otherwise you reach only stagnation. You have to dedicate some to technology advance.

    And India is showing you why : they make a lot of progress, and in fact if their rocket is good enough (not many failure) they might get a good size of the satellite launching market, thus bringing in money and being able to concentrate on their other problem better, more so than as if they had instead investing that money in just food or basic sanitation.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  7. Re:Now if India would just invest in its own peopl by itzly · · Score: 1

    Because countries with a billion+ people can only do one thing at a time ?

  8. Re:Now if India would just invest in its own peopl by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I think you missed the point of the rocket launch - it was not to impress you.

    Whether you are impressed, unimpressed, love India or loathe India.. we dont care a damn. The G7 dont interact with the developing countries unless there is a huge monetary payoff and that is the only reason you are nice to India.. our market.

    Remember - China's corrupt, polluted, no freedom of speech and lacks human rights... and yet, most things in your house are probably Chinese made .. including the defective condoms your dad used.. that resulted in you!

  9. Re:Now if India would just invest in its own peopl by peted56 · · Score: 2

    Not that much unlike the USA really.

  10. Weird design by gman003 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Those boosters aren't boosters, they're a side-mounted first stage, because the first liquid engine isn't even ignited until shortly before the boosters separate.

    The first stage, then, is a pair of pretty standard solid rockets. A bit under half the thrust of a Shuttle booster, and about a third the mass.

    The second stage is a pair of hypergolic liquid rockets, using UDMH and N2O4. Normally that's a sign of military heritage - hypergolic fuels are common in ICBM designs because they're storable at room temperature, and guarantee that the missile will at least launch. Purely civilian designs rarely use such fuels, because they're dangerous as hell, RP-1+LOX is cheaper, and you would generally prefer an aborted launch to an explosion. But in this case it actually makes sense - if you were on the ground and RP-1+LOX failed to ignite, you just try again tomorrow, but if you're already in the air, you're screwed if it doesn't ignite. It also gets about the same efficiency as RP1+LOX.

    The third stage is supposed to be LH2+LOX, but was not used on this test flight. Perfectly reasonable for an upper stage, where the low thrust is less important than the high efficiency.

    Overall, a bit different design than most rockets, but not in a bad way.

    1. Re:Weird design by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Normally that's a sign of military heritage - hypergolic fuels are common in ICBM designs because they're storable at room temperature, and guarantee that the missile will at least launch. Purely civilian designs rarely use such fuels, because they're dangerous as hell

      Well, in this case, it's because of Ariane (1-4). The engine is a rip-off of Viking.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  11. Weird design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "but not in a bad way."

    I don't know, having a witches brew of 253,500lbs of flaming/exploding UDMH, hydrazine and N2O4 raining down on Earth should the core stage or boosters fail doesn't sound all that great to me. RP-1 (highly refined Kerosene) isn't great either, but its definitely far less unpleasant.

  12. Re:Now if India would just invest in its own peopl by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In 1962, when Kennedy gave his famous "Choose to go to the moon" speech, the US still had 'white' and 'colored' drinking fountains. Many rural Americans in the Appalachians and the south were in deep poverty and had no indoor plumbing. Should America have fixed those things first before they went to the moon?

  13. 630-tonne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How many horses is that?

  14. Avesome by BradMajors · · Score: 1

    Awesome missile for sending one of India's Hydrogen bombs to any city on the planet.

    1. Re:Avesome by towermac · · Score: 1

      What about a platform for releasing steerable tungsten rods, able to impact in minutes within 1m of any target over 70% of the Earth's surface? The kinetic energy of a small nuke, with no pesky fallout. (Unless you hit a nuke plant.)

      Well, I'm just sayin', that's more useful than a Tsar Bomba.

    2. Re:Avesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean as an ABM system? That is the only effective use of such rods, sci-fi wanking aside.

    3. Re:Avesome by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      You can't conjure the "kinetic energy of a small nuke" out of thin air - the launch vehicle has to provide it. Even with this rocket, you won't get more than ~40 tons of TNT equivalent per launch. That's a tiny nuke. And that's before accounting for atmospheric losses. And forget ground blasts (or low altitude airbursts), not gonna happen with such small masses. Not to mention how awfully impractical such a weapon would be from an operational perspective (target choice, attack timing etc.)

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  15. Sour grapes anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, in this case, it's because of Ariane (1-4). The engine is a rip-off of Viking.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V...

    After World War II, the United States experimented with captured German V-2 rockets as part of the Hermes project. Based on these experiments the U.S. decided in 1946 to develop its own large liquid-fueled rocket design, to be called Neptune but changed to Viking. The intent was both to provide an independent U.S. capability in rocketry, to continue the Hermes project after the V-2's were expended

    So, US rockets are just a ripoff of Germans. And Germans just ripped off the Russians. Oh wait, maybe it was the Chinese.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

    You know what? If all you can say that someone's achievement was nothing but a ripoff of your past technology, maybe it's just sour grapes.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...

    Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although he leaped with all his strength. As he went away, the fox remarked 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.' People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain would do well to apply this story to themselves.

    Oh, it's 2000 years old and quoted just so you don't try to say it was a ripoff from some more modern tale. 2000 years old and still applies.

    PS. Congrats to India on successful test.

    1. Re:Sour grapes anyone? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_(rocket)

      What are you prattling about? I was clearly talking of the Viking engine . The similarly-named rocket has nothing to do with that.

      So, US rockets are just a ripoff of Germans. And Germans just ripped off the Russians.

      No, they're not. There's nothing in German rockets that was copied in either American or Russian designs, post-1950. Whereas the Indian engine in question is pretty much identical to Ariane's engine. Furthermore, the reason I've mentioned it is because it explains how hypergolics got into the core stage (not for military reasons). I'm sorry that your reading comprehension sucks so badly. I hope you'll get better.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    2. Re:Sour grapes anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_(rocket)

      What are you prattling about? I was clearly talking of the Viking engine . The similarly-named rocket has nothing to do with that.

      So, US rockets are just a ripoff of Germans. And Germans just ripped off the Russians.

      No, they're not. There's nothing in German rockets that was copied in either American or Russian designs, post-1950. Whereas the Indian engine in question is pretty much identical to Ariane's engine. Furthermore, the reason I've mentioned it is because it explains how hypergolics got into the core stage (not for military reasons). I'm sorry that your reading comprehension sucks so badly. I hope you'll get better.

      You are kidding right? you do know that America took a heap of german engineers post war. much of the work done post 1950 was based on german knowledge or done with the help of german engineers.

    3. Re:Sour grapes anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's nothing in German rockets that was copied in either American or Russian designs, post-1950.

      Wernher von Braun

    4. Re:Sour grapes anyone? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Very much incomparable. There was a lot of knowledge transfer from the German engineers, but mostly in the theoretical area, whereas Vikas is a case of virtually identical flight hardware. That wasn't the case in the US beyond some initial experiments with V-2s; all the US hardware had to be developed from the first principles. For example, the German regenerative cooling on V-2 sucked, so it couldn't be used, and even after that problem was solved, nobody in the world - not even Germans - really knew how to build really large engines, so US engineering had to step into an unmapped territory with the F-1. And essentially identical knowledge to what was transferred back then after the war plus a lot of new knowledge is now pretty much textbook material (and has been for a few decades) that you can buy from Amazon - where do you think Elon Musk learned it?

      And again, what has that to do with me explaining why the core stage uses toxic fuels? How are Americans or Germans related to the problem of how GLSV Mk III ended up using those fuels?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    5. Re:Sour grapes anyone? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Wernher von Braun isn't a name of a component of a German rocket. Viking IS a name of a component of a French rocket, though.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    6. Re:Sour grapes anyone? by towermac · · Score: 1

      You used the word 'ripoff', and AC used that to try to pull us into his worldview. We didn't invent shit; we ripoff the world, so on and so forth...

      Yeah, we took everything the Germans had, including rockets, after beating them in the war. Germans are pretty smart btw, so after that man had whipped them into a frenzy, they had the best rockets by far.

      Which they got from Robert Goddard, an American. Of British descent though. So, who gets the credit?

      AC misses the point of America. Everything we have is 'ripped off', from somebody, or somewhere. We've got nothing of our own. We don't even get to 'have' our own Native American culture. That belongs to them; we don't get to be a part of it. But that doesn't stop us from using it all the time and ripping it off. Same way we absorb everything else we have from every other immigrant.

      By having nothing of our own, we get to have everything. That pisses you off, doesn't it, AC?

    7. Re:Sour grapes anyone? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      You used the word 'ripoff'

      I did, because it's an accurate description of Vikas. The US equivalent of Indians adopting Vikas would be the US flying to the Moon with the V-2 engine - which obviously didn't happen. The Indian equivalent of replicating the US post-war engine development would be Indians letting French guys immigrate and develop a much improved new engine on Indian salary - which didn't happen either. That's why I considered the topic digression to post-war US completely inconsequential. Their new CE-20 engine is fully domestic, though - although that's exactly the one that hasn't flown yet. Which is unfortunate, because it seems really nice, I'll give them that. If it's cheap enough, it could become a real workhorse for ISRO.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  16. Iron Thunderbolt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gurkha, flying in his swift and powerful Vimana, hurled against the three cities of the Vrishnis and Andhakas a single projectile charged with all the power of the universe.
    An incandescent column of smoke and fire, as brilliant as ten thousand suns, rose in all its splendor.
    It was the unknown weapon, the iron thunderbolt, a gigantic messenger of death which reduced to ashes the entire race of the Vrishnis and Andhakas.
    The corpses were so burnt they were no longer recognizable. Hair and nails fell out.
    Pottery broke without cause. Foodstuffs were poisoned. To escape, the warriors threw themselves in streams to wash themselves and their weapons.

    1. Re:Iron Thunderbolt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      http://www.jasoncolavito.com/the-case-of-the-false-quotes.html

  17. Avesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When you want to send up nukes you don't build something nearly this big, immobile & easy of a target. It would take something like a delivery of a Tsar Bomba to need something this big for nuclear bomb purposes.

  18. Re:Now if India would just invest in its own peopl by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    This is a job for every indian.
    Not for 'the government' or 'the space agency'.
    As long as a two year old toddler can sit on the middle of a road crossing, with cars navigating around it, and no one picks it up, and calls 'authorities' or tries to find the mother, there is something seriously wrong in the attitude to live, other people, children etc. Nothing a 'government' can fix over night.
    Same for a dead man lying on a road, all the passing people and car drivers consider him sleeping. Even if he is, what is the damn problem to get him off the road to the pedestrian side walks? No one cares about anything in india, only 'outsiders' care about corruption, that is so sad, it is not even funny!

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  19. Re:Poor Mr. Rocket by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    FWIW, I got the reference.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  20. Off topic by DaMattster · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    This might be off-topic or even seen as discriminatory but I will take the chance. I'm appalled at India's Government for putting it's space program above the welfare of its people. There are many Indians living in abject poverty whilst her government fritters money away on fancy projects that ultimately do nothing at all save for showing off to the world.

    1. Re:Off topic by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They won't get out of poverty unless India becomes a developed country, and India won't become a developed country unless they venture into new branches of industry. Plus, ISRO isn't NASA, they're recovering costs by doing commercial launches.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  21. Off topic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are homeless and hungry in every country in the world. Would you cancel the US space program using the same logic?

  22. If that's all folks... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And that, my friends, is the death knell that you hear sounding for America.

  23. Think of the poor! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Think of how many poor people this thing will take care of!

    No problem!