Slashdot Mirror


Study: Red Light Cameras Don't Improve Safety

An anonymous reader writes: Ars Technica summaries a study by the Chicago Tribune (paywalled) that found red light cameras do not improve driver safety. "[W]hile right angle crash incidents have been reduced, rear-end crashes that resulted in injuries went up 22 percent." Chicago officials recently claimed that the cameras led to a 47% reduction "T-bone" injury crashes, using that statistic as evidence that the program is worthwhile. But the study's authors, who "accounted for declining accident rates in recent years as well as other confounding factors, found cameras reduced right-angle crashes that caused injuries by just 15 percent."

They also noted that the city chose to install many cameras at intersections where crashes were rare to begin with. Chicago has raised roughly $500 million from red light camera tickets since 2002. "[O]fficials recently admitted to the city inspector general that they had quietly dropped the threshold for what constitutes a red light camera ticket, allowing the tickets even when cameras showed a yellow light time just under the three-second federal minimum standard. That shift earlier this year snared 77,000 more drivers and $7.7 million in ticket revenue before the city agreed to change the threshold back.

17 of 285 comments (clear)

  1. Study financed by by Snotnose · · Score: 5, Insightful

    the institute of No Shiat Sherlock. It was always about the revenue, safety was a smokescreen swallowed by the gullible.

    1. Re:Study financed by by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1, Insightful

      On the flipside, 80% of the people arguing against them really just want to be able to run red lights with impunity.

      Indeed. A big problem with these cameras, is that they issue tickets to middle class white people. But a live cop will just pick on teenagers and blacks, and leave the rest of us alone.

    2. Re:Study financed by by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      What they are saying is there is a link between having fines as a percentage of income and having those fines actually have some real impact. Obviously the idea of a $100 fine to someone earning a million dollars a year is much like expecting a $1 fine having an impact on someone earning $10,000 per year. So for real impact and to reduce the number of motor vehicle impacts fines need to be a percentage of annual income so as to have a fair and equal impact on all people breaking the law.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. Old news. by Karmashock · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We had them installed in Los Angeles despite no one wanting them outside of the city council.

    They then installed them in places that didn't actually have accidents such as busy though safe intersections.

    The result was actually an increase in accidents because everyone had to start driving dangerously to avoid the cameras.

    This was brought to the attention of the city council and they basically ignored it. The accidents were higher. People were unhappy with them. We had one christmas where some group of people wearing santa outfits put big colorfully wrapped cardboard boxes over the speed cameras that said "merry christmas". No one liked these things.

    Then after the systems had been in place for awhile and they did a finacial audit... they found the cameras weren't actually making any money because most of the tickets were getting thrown out of court by judges that also didn't like them.

    THEN the city council took them down... roughly about a week after that was revealed the cameras were disconnected or gone.

    Which really highlights from several angles what this was always about.

    Money.

    Safety has nothing to do with it. Nothing what so ever. It was money - period. That is all these things are about or have ever been about. Cash. End of story.

    --
    I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
    1. Re:Old news. by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The result was actually an increase in accidents because everyone had to start driving dangerously to avoid the cameras.

      Nobody HAD to drive dangerously simply because the cameras were installed.

      Otherwise I generally agree with you.

    2. Re:Old news. by ArsonSmith · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually yes they did, due to the extra threat of photos people are more likely to slam on the brakes at the last second when it would be safer to continue through the intersection.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    3. Re:Old news. by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      due to the extra threat of photos people are more likely to slam on the brakes at the last second when it would be safer to continue through the intersection.

      If you are choosing between "slamming your brakes at the last second" or "running a red light" then you were driving unsafely.***

      Further if you are "slamming your brakes at the last second" to avoid a ticket, AND you get rear ended as a result -- what was the guy behind you thinking? Sounds like he was driving even poorer than you were... because if you couldn't get through the intersection legally; then he certainly couldn't either, so he should have been slowing down to stop even if you hadn't fucked up and waited to the last second to slam on your brakes.

      I'm not disputing that the rear-end accident rate went up. But only because the red light camera exacerbated already shitty driving habits. Nobody was driving safely and now HAD to drive unsafely. They were driving unsafely all along.

      Further T-bone accidents were reduced. The severity of T-bone accidents tends to be a lot higher than rear-ends. Especially as the "slammed on the brakes at the last second scenarios" typically involve pretty small differences in relative vehicle speeds... e.g you slowing from 35mph to 20mhp and get rear ended by a vehicle that also slammed on its brakes from 35mph and hits you still moving 30mph... a difference of only 10mph.

      T-bones tend to involve vehicles both hitting eachother at 30mph at orthoganal angles which is both a larger impact and harder for the vehicles accident systems to absorb.

      (***Yes, we can argue that IF the yellow light timers were adjusted downward below what they should be for the speed limit to further increase revenues then yes. But that is a completely separate issue from merely installing properly configured red light cameras.)

    4. Re:Old news. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How exactly do you drive more dangerously because of a red light camera???
      Let me give you a hing..

      A yellow — or amber — light means the red light is about to appear. You must stop if you can do so safely; otherwise, go with caution.

      Knowing the yellow has been shorted to make sure they get fines, which would i choose?

      - Sail into the light and risk a ticket
      - slam on my brakes and have the guy behind rear-end me?

    5. Re:Old news. by vux984 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They could just get tickets I guess.

      While I don't care for the cameras I do live in a city with red light cameras. I've NEVER had any difficulty stopping safely; and I've never gotten a red light ticket.

      As long as the city isn't screwing with the yellow light duration, if you were driving safely then red light cameras really don't affect you.

      just to drive the way they were driving before that was safer.

      Running red lights is not safe.

      What the cameras force are sudden stops and accelerations. You can't avoid it.

      Again, around here, that's just not the case. When the light turns yellow, people prepare to stop for the red. Unless they are moving at sufficient speed to enter the intersection while its still yellow. Its basic driving 101.

      If red light cameras make you are slam on the brakes then you are driving poorly.

  3. Re:Rejected in Ohio! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You mean the Ohio with the Republican Governor and the Republican dominated legislature? Good to know.

    Ordinarily the left-of-centers around here have no trouble making the connection between higher government revenue and greater public safety. All they're doing in Chicago is providing themselves the means to fund their Government [1] by punishing law breakers. Beyond that they are discouraging the use of climate wrecking automobiles. Seems like a win all the way around.

    Anyhow, if you really want to kill off these cameras in Chicago the answer is obvious; attribute the operation of the cameras to racism. Work up the charts and graphs that "prove" the fines are disproportionately on blacks, expose camera contractors as a parade of whitees and Sharpton will have the matter sorted in no time.

    Anyhow Chicago, enjoy your statist hell. You deserve it.

    [1] no sunshine, the half billion from the story is net to the city; the contractors aren't stealing it all.

  4. Tailgaters cause rear end crashes by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't care if you hit a brick wall. if you get rear ended, the guy was too close to begin with. That's what the insurance companies say, and I agree.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Tailgaters cause rear end crashes by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nope, the tailgater is always wrong, without exception. You keep a safe distance and you won't hit anything, simple law of physics. I do have the right to avoid blowing the light. If you rear end me, screw you. You were too damn close or driving too fast! I am not responsible for the people behind me in any way. I always do my best to allow them to pass if they are so inclined. You don't have to like it. Just accept it and move along.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  5. Nothing beats poor driving. by wvmarle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Rear-ending means not keeping enough distance with the car in front of you. It's that simple. Plus of course keeping your eyes on the road and concentrating on the task ahead.

    Running a red light causes accidents, again poor driving skills. Yes I know the argument "to improve ticket revenue, yellow is shortened" - that argument fails for the period BEFORE the red light cameras are installed, i.e. the time that running red lights was rampant causing numerous accidents, which these red light cameras actually have reduced according to this very article.

    As long as people don't understand basic road rules and safety, these accidents will continue to happen. As long as people try to shave seconds of their commute by pushing, speeding and running red lights (instead of stopping when it's yellow), accidents will continue to happen.

    Nothing beats poor driving.

    1. Re:Nothing beats poor driving. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > Nothing beats poor driving.

      Actually good traffic engineering does beat poor driving.
      It may not beat it 100% of the time, but nothing in life is ever 100%.
      Getting all righteous about bad drivers might give you the warm fuzzies, but it doesn't save lives.
      Good traffic engineering does save lives.

  6. Your reasoning is: by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 4, Insightful

    People have been trying to make driving safer.

    Driving is now safer.

    Laws to make driving safer were therefore hysterical and stupid.

    --
    Science is all about firing a drunk pig out of a cannon just to see what happens.
  7. Technological improvements had nothing to do with by zerofoo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ABS, crumple zones, airbags, traction control, and high-strength steel had far more to do with reducing highway fatalities than lawmakers could ever hope to achieve.

  8. Just like speed traps by swb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They always seem to put speed traps where it's easy to catch speeders versus where speed control would improve safety, such as places with high levels of speed related accidents.

    The latter are often difficult to place speed traps or don't offer good cover for squad cars and the former are often places where it's easy to go faster or where the speed limits are artificially low.