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Judge: It's OK For Cops To Create Fake Instagram Accounts

An anonymous reader writes with a ruling that seems obvious in a case about police making a fake Instagram account. A federal judge in New Jersey has signed off on the practice of law enforcement using a fake Instagram account in order to become "friends" with a suspect — thus obtaining photos and other information that a person posts to their account. "No search warrant is required for the consensual sharing of this type of information," United States District Judge William Martini wrote in an opinion published last Tuesday. In other news, an undercover officer still doesn't need to tell you that he or she is a member of law enforcement if you ask.

21 of 209 comments (clear)

  1. Not seeing the issue here by LordLimecat · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is anyone confused by the fact that cops can lie in the course of their work? Because thats something everyone should be crystal clear on: they can.

    Or maybe people dont understand that things you share with a cop, even "off the record", can be on the record. That, too, is a myth that should be dispelled.

    1. Re:Not seeing the issue here by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Cops should NEVER be allowed to lie outside of specific, warrant backed undercover operations. I will never understand when it became ok for those charged with enforcing the law to lie without shame.

      --
      Good-bye
    2. Re:Not seeing the issue here by Jiro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I'm not fine even with that. If a cop lies and says he has evidence against a suspect, but the suspect is innocent, he is likely to think the police are willing to frame him, and may falsely confess just to avoid being framed for something worse.

    3. Re:Not seeing the issue here by wonkavader · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bingo. You're absolutely correct.

      "I've got three witnesses that put you there, DNA evidence, and some video with someone wearing jeans and a white hoodie, just like you wear, though the face isn't visable. You'll get the death penalty. If you give me a confession, we can get it down to manslaughter. First offense. You'll probably just get probation. Here's some paper."

      Yeah, police being able to lie is a great idea. I'm sure it benefits somebody. Other than the owners of for-profit prisons, I'm not sure who.

    4. Re:Not seeing the issue here by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bingo. You're absolutely correct.

      "I've got three witnesses that put you there, DNA evidence, and some video with someone wearing jeans and a white hoodie, just like you wear, though the face isn't visable. You'll get the death penalty. If you give me a confession, we can get it down to manslaughter. First offense. You'll probably just get probation. Here's some paper."

      Yeah, police being able to lie is a great idea. I'm sure it benefits somebody. Other than the owners of for-profit prisons, I'm not sure who.

      And the answer to that scenario is, "I'd like to see a lawyer, please." and not say another word.

    5. Re:Not seeing the issue here by johnlcallaway · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When you can get the criminals to do the same, I'll agree with you. To require police officers to be 100% honest is just a naive statement from someone who appears to be totally ignorant about how the world around them is.

      If someone is stupid enough to tell the details of something illegal to someone they have never meant via the Internet, they deserve to be locked up.

      If someone who didn't do anything is stupid enough to admit to it because the police said they have evidence, <sarcasm>maybe they should be locked up</sarcasm>. The world is obviously too dangerous for someone with so little self-confidence and personal courage to live in.

      --
      I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    6. Re:Not seeing the issue here by matria · · Score: 5, Insightful

      And then the public defender you're assigned because you can't afford a decent lawyer tells you to go ahead and plead guilty to the lesser charge, even though everyone knows it's a false charge (the accusing party has a long history of making such charges and is well-known to the local police and judiciary) since it really doesn't mean anything, and you'll just get probation, but if you take it to trial they'll be mad and will throw the book at you. And two weeks after you are frightened and pressured into pleading guilty, and are sentenced to several years in prison, your lawyer is hired by the state as an assistant prosecutor.

    7. Re:Not seeing the issue here by Le+Marteau · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > I'm fine with (cops lying to people)

      If you or I lie to a cop, we can get charged with obstruction of justice. If they lie to us, they can get a commonadation.

      And you're "fine" with that.

      Some days it's easier to be a misanthrope than others. This is one of those days. Fuck you.

      --
      Mod down people who tell people how to mod in their sigs
    8. Re:Not seeing the issue here by Archtech · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That doesn't seem to be quite in the spirit of the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights. "Land of the smart enough to avoid being framed by the justice system" - doesn't have the same ring, does it? Especially since (ironically enough) simply being smart doesn't cut it - you need street smarts, expert knowledge, and best of all contacts.

      That's it" "Land of the well-connected".

      --
      I am sure that there are many other solipsists out there.
    9. Re:Not seeing the issue here by Spamalope · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I will never understand when it became ok for those charged with enforcing the law to lie without shame.

      Then in court these professional liars are held up as the most credible of witnesses.

    10. Re:Not seeing the issue here by hairyfeet · · Score: 4, Informative

      We have a winnnar! First thing I was taught is you say FOUR WORDS and ONLY FOUR WORDS when speaking to a cop, and those are "I want my lawyer".

      But sadly you are incorrect because I've had to amend that to two sets of four words because thanks to a right wing SCOTUS things that should be fricking common sense no longer are so now along with "I want my lawyer" you have to say "I am remaining silent" but sticking to those 2 sets of four words will ALWAYS be to your advantage and not sticking to them is NEVER to your advantage.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    11. Re:Not seeing the issue here by skegg · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Use that while you can.

      In NSW, the right to silence was dealt a blow similar to laws they have in the UK.

      In a nutshell, the new law "encourages" those arrested to open their hearts to the police, and yap away.
      Because anything not offered to the police can potentially subsequently be deemed inadmissible in your trial.

      This was opposed by civil rights groups and even the LEGAL PROFESSION ... but objections fell on deaf ears.

    12. Re:Not seeing the issue here by meerling · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No

    13. Re:Not seeing the issue here by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The primary duty of police officers is to assist the public in upholding the law. Having a police force that can legally lie at will does to do anything to help establish a rapport between the police and the public they are meant to serve and protect. It is all about professionalism versus a cowboy sheriff attitude. If you can not trust your police force to tell you the truth then exactly what the fuck have you really achieved?

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    14. Re:Not seeing the issue here by davydagger · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Then you're too stupid to be free.

      what? You mean if everyone is not an expert in every knowledgable field of expertise, they deserve to be ripped off?

      Thats the attitude everyone takes in law and business, but computers forgettaboutit

      You tell people they are dumb enough to be hacked, and they deserved having their lives ruined, and their monies stolen, they go nuts. "Deserve to be a victim", only works if your fighting against the law, celebrities, bankers, or other capitalists or state authority.

    15. Re:Not seeing the issue here by davydagger · · Score: 5, Insightful
      because of the "war on drugs, war on crime", they got a whole people scared into giving up their civil rights decades ago, and we now think this is normal. Anytime someone gets a group together to oppose this, they are harrassed by the cops using the same techniques, and made an example of. We are taught in schools, and re-enforced in the media, there is no line between dissent, and rebellion, rebellion and crime, and crime and oppression. The government is our friends, and all critics are criminals. We give a really wide benefit of the doubt to cops.

      We create a whole list of fear words like junkie, terrorist, psycho, of which we see a whole underclass ready to swallow society, and the government's wrongs, slight and only exiting to protect us from imaginary enemies. We have TV news shows telling us how we are all the privledged class, and social justice is aimed as us, not the system, while simultaneously misdirecting citizens at eachother.

      Our political movements create conspiracies against eachother, and exhonorate the guilty.

      Truth is, you're more likely to be shot by a police officer than a crazy on a spree shooting. More likely to die from a hand gun than an infantry rifle, and more likely to be killed by obeiseity than recreational drug use.(3 times as likely)

    16. Re:Not seeing the issue here by meta-monkey · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No. Cops are absolutely allowed to break the law undercover. Do not spread myths, please.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  2. Sounds fine by me by Kjella · · Score: 5, Insightful

    As long as the character they create is entirely fictional and not based on impersonating someone they know is a friend of the suspect, I'm fine with it. Cops running around trying to "friend" people in my name is not.

    --
    Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
  3. I.D. Please by magusxxx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Let's say I own an internet business. I notice that a profile is fake and delete it off the system. Suddenly, I'm told by the police it was theirs. And, if I don't put it back up it's obstruction of justice. Note: Told to do so, not "here's a court order." Does the ruling make this scenario feasible? And if so, what is the liability for the company if they do or don't make the account viable again.

    --
    Care killed the cat, but satisfaction brought it back.
  4. Re: Why wouldn't it be? by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Because it's identity fraud which is illegal and it's violating the ToS, which is contract fraud, which is illegal. Well, illegal for the plantation workers, anyhow.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  5. here's a real-life case to explain criminal intent by raymorris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I'll try explaining it the other way around, with a real-life case. There have been several cases that fit this pattern.

    A cop wants to bust a bad guy. That cop gets his wife, a teacher, to pretend to be the DA and tell the bad guy he's authorized to do $crime. Cop busts the bad guy.

    In court, bad guy says "the DA said I could ... at least, I thought she was the DA. The real DA replies "I never said a word to the guy. Some teacher said it was authorized, but she has no authority to authorize anything."

    In such case, the courts have consistently held that the defendant is not guilty, because they THOUGHT that their actions were authorized and therefore lawful.*

    So you see it doesn't matter if the person "authorizing" it is really a cop, a teacher, or a DA. What matters is what the defendant BELIEVES - whether they are trying to commit an act that is criminal or they are trying to aid law enforcement. The legal term is "mens rea", which means "guilty mind",'also known as "criminal intent ".

    You are free to think that the courts should have done the opposite and found the person guilty when the "DA" actually isn't a DA. You can think it's wrong or right, but what actually sends people to prison or not in such cases is their actual belief - did they believe their act was authorized or not. The actual identity of the authorizing party does not matter under law.

    * This mention of mistaken belief reminds some people of the phrase "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Ignorance of the LAW generally isn't an excuse, but mistake of FACT IS an excuse. "I didn't know poisoning my husband counts as murder" is no good. "The bottle said 'blueberry syrup', so I thought it really was blueberry syrup that I put on his food" is a valid defense. Here we're talking about mistake of fact - the defendant thought the person was (or was not) a proper authority.