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School Defied Google and US Government, Let Boys Program White House Xmas Trees

Posted by timothy on from the sexist-not-to-select-by-sex dept.

theodp writes This holiday season, Google and the National Parks partnered to let girls program the White House Christmas tree lights. While the initiative earned kudos in Fast Company's 9 Giant Leaps For Women In Science and Technology In 2014, it also prompted an act of civil disobedience of sorts from St. Augustine of Canterbury School, which decided Google and the U.S. government wouldn't determine which of their kids would be allowed to participate in the coding event. "We decided to open it up to all our students, both boys and girls so that they could be a part of such an historic event, and have it be the kickoff to our Hour of Code week," explained Debra Knox, a technology teacher at St. Augustine.

59 of 355 comments (clear)

  1. Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 5, Insightful

    they really should be reversing most of those programs. Girls are utterly dominating every aspect of education, including almost all STEM fields, to the point of being nearly 2/3rds of college graduates. At this point they're not "helping" girls, they're blatantly doing nothing more than sabotaging boys even further.

    --
    A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    1. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Um... what?!? Having worked in the S, E, and M of the STEM fields, at multiple universities, in multiple countries... you are full of it.

    2. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I used to be a social justice warrior, but then I took an arrow to muh soggy knee...

    3. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by davydagger · · Score: 3, Insightful
      I agree.

      Sexism exists, and is very rampant in society. However, its plainly obvious that the sexism isn't government imposed, its not made by tech geeks, or programs, or education, or business institutions.

      You also have to be kidding me if you think it was a few computer geeks, engineers, or nerds of any era who decided, or at in any way formed mainstream society's gender rules. Before any of the social darwinist apologists come back here with some shitty science, throwing out terms they barely understand, not understanding how they don't apply, because its convienant for their political position, lets discus gender roles in larger society.

      Gender roles come from two places in modern America: One, Churches and other bastation of traditionalism; Two, MTV, advertising, and materialist pop culture. These determine what people think they should be doing. Niether of them promotes women in technology, and its mostly people adherent to the standards set forth from either that self-re-enforce those standards.

      Now this is where I tell you don't look at me. I'm an outcast, a nerd, a hacker, I have no say in the matter, regardless of being gifted with computers, both groups look at me as a freak and an outcast. I didn't make that society. Anything I do to change it will be met with open hostility because I am viewed as a freak, and very low on the totem pole of both. So this is I what I want my fellow techies to do. Simply repeat this, fold your arms, say we simply live in the society you made for us, that we have no say in, and let the mainstream sort their own fucking problems out, and welcome whatever girls want to try tech out with open arms. Also, don't namefag me. If you agree with me, make the idea yours and repeat it in your words, great ideas are meant to be shared.

      I see a lot of us taking sides in the traditionalist vs materialist debate, and its a place where we have no place. The mainstream is looking for someone to blame, and I say we simply fold our arms and reply "its not our fault society isn't the way you want it to be".

    4. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by _xeno_ · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I only have my own personal anecdote, but I was the top boy in my highschool class by far. That didn't even get me into the top 10% of my class, though, since the top 10% were all girls. I think the only other boy in the honor society was a boy from the next year's class but I can't remember. (I know who the next highest boy in the school's ranking was but I don't remember whether or not he hit the cutoff for honor society.)

      This was during the 90s in a public high school, so it wasn't like the population was simply unbalanced. This is hardly a new problem. Our education system simply doesn't engage with boys and hasn't for years at this point.

      If you want links, though, it isn't hard to find them:

      Itâ(TM)s Time to Worry: Boys Are Rapidly Falling Behind Girls in School
      How to Make School Better for Boys: Start by acknowledging that boys are languishing while girls are succeeding.
      Education: Boys Falling Behind Girls in Many Areas (Paywalled, so I have no idea what it says)

      Those were just the top results on Google.

      --
      You are in a maze of twisty little relative jumps, all alike.
    5. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Fwipp · · Score: 5, Funny

      Boys are loosing in education a lot.

      Clearly.

    6. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      Boys are loosing in education a lot.

      So... you're a boy, I presume?

    7. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by pepty · · Score: 2

      This is hardly a new problem. Our education system simply doesn't engage with boys and hasn't for years at this point.

      The thing is, I don't think the US school system was more engaging in the past. Sure, there were more vocational programs back then, but as mentioned in your links, vocational programs were traditionally offered to lower performing students who weren't headed for college. If anything school was much less engaging: more drills and fewer games, boring textbooks that were full of text instead of pictures, computer aided learning was learning to program, etc.

      How about this: it's not that schools are less engaging than they used to be, it's that the outside world is much more engaging. There are more distractions than ever before for kids, and the designers of those distractions are much more skilled and have much better tools for holding their attention than in the past. At the same time, schools have decided to focus on attempting to make everything interesting instead of on giving people the ability to grind through stuff they find boring. The tenacity and discipline to slog through boring stuff is what gets you the opportunities and skills to do fun stuff.

    8. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by thesupraman · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Dont forget the elephant in the corner, which is is OH so fashionable to ignore.

      Who is teaching our children?

      Really, especially in younger education, go and look at the male/female TEACHER ratio.

      Any women claim they are unfairly treated in education? BS. They ARE education now, if they are unfairly treated it is by themselves.

      It is boys that are getting hammered, by a even increasing demand of a feminised education system for them to conform to feminine standards.

      Want equality? Show me the push for more men in teaching!

    9. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by the+phantom · · Score: 2, Informative

      It is a fairly well known problem that men and minorities are underrepresented in the teaching profession, particularly in the lower grades. If you were paying any attention at all to the teaching community, you would know that teacher education programs are trying to recruit and retain more men. A quick Google search to get you started...

      --
      Rhapsody in Numbers
    10. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by retchdog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      uh, yeah, i've had extensive elite education in STEM, in the US. it's mostly a sausage fest. statistics will back this up and, no, they're not fabricated by teh feminist conspiracy.

      i have to conclude that anyone who's bitterly complaining about women having taken over STEM is just a delusional loser who probably just couldn't hack it.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    11. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nerd culture isn't remotely plagued by sexism, it's one of the least sexist cultures out there. That's nothing more than the latest straw man in a long line of straw man invented by bullies to justify shitting all over nerds as the root of all evil. A hundred years ago pinball made people alcoholics and gamblers, thirty years ago D&D made people worship satan and molest children, ten years ago videogames made people violent, and today it's the misogyny-apocalypse on the internet.

      Meanwhile actual female nerds say the opposite, and are promptly called "house ni**ers" and doxed by the latest round of hipsters who've found a new target for their bullying and mendacious handwringing.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    12. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 5, Informative

      No, it's definitely teachers actively screwing boys. They're literally being graded worse just for being boys.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    13. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Lehk228 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      they're blatantly doing nothing more than sabotaging boys even further

      this is the primary objective of feminism.

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    14. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Oligonicella · · Score: 2

      I love how people referring to "successful" matriarchies always wind up pointing to primitive cultures.

    15. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Ash-Fox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Note: I am not the OP.

      You might not influence MTV culture, but you are part of nerd culture.

      What is nerd culture?

      I admit I am technical, I like technical subjects, science fiction, programming, participate in hacker spaces.

      We all have a responsibility to make our own corners of the world better, and one of the problems nerd culture is plagued with is sexism.

      I have little idea what you mean by this? I picked up my copy of 2600 and I struggle to find anything sexist in this, please clarify?

      work with others to make your culture better for all nerds.

      I haven't really seen any sexism taking place in the activities I enjoy. They do seem male dominated, but I am not seeing any sexism which causes that? Back to my copy of 2600, what would you suggest I do to improve 2600 as a subscriber?

      --
      Change is certain; progress is not obligatory.
    16. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by lucm · · Score: 2

      This is a fascinating study because it shows that soft skills are rewarded better than hard skills in elementary school. This is almost unavoidable as teachers, themselves products of social science programs, have a strong bias toward process as opposed to results.

      Unfortunately, this leads to students that are ill-equipped to face the highly competitive western business culture. Already we can see the damage: an increasing number of people who can't cope with reality without the help of big pharma (SSRI, benzodiazepine, opioids, cannabis, etc).

      It is unfortunate that we are getting closer and closer to something similar to the "perfect society" in Demolition Man. See:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    17. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by shaitand · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I'd have to agree it's a sausage fest but I've seen zero indication it's for any reason beyond a lack of interest on the part of females.

      Just because one gender tends to populate a field doesn't mean something is actually broken or needs fixing. A gender agnostic field should be built around what works best to advance that field not attempts to appeal to or advance a gender.

    18. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by goose-incarnated · · Score: 2

      The only example of matriarchy[1] in the world resulted in a backwards, primitive, iron-age society which has never produced anything of value for the rest of mankind (or animal-kind, if you will). I don't think that that was what you wanted to show.

      [1] The Mosuo aren't fully matriarchical either, to be honest.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    19. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by TimboJones · · Score: 3, Informative

      Just because one gender tends to populate a field doesn't mean something is actually broken or needs fixing.

      This is true, in general and abstractly.

      But in this case, the predominance of one gender in all STEM fields does indeed demonstrate that something is actually broken and needs fixing.

      Nature, science, and common sense show that while consensus provides great short-term efficiency, diversity is universally superior to monoculture in the long term. This is as true in the marketplace of ideas and the STEM fields as it is in the jungle or on the farm.

      There does indeed exist a systemic cultural bias pushing women out of technical fields. It exists as a thousand little things, none of which is individually morally incorrect, none of which ought be banned, all of which can be rationalized, all of which ought be examined thoughtfully. Correcting this bias requires not zeroing the bias -- highly unlikely and in fact not at all effective -- but a proactive encouragement toward diversity. To see this demonstrated mathematically, see: http://ncase.me/polygons/

    20. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 2

      And in one post you demonstrate exactly the problem. Even when we're talking about men getting utterly fucked AND blamed for it at the same time women are the real victims.

      Here's a thought experiment: Disprove an accusation of "objectification". You can't, because it's no different than "you're a witch" or "you're a communist".

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    21. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Women are within 5% of parity in Math, Statistics, and the Physical Sciences three years ago. They're nearly SIXTY PERCENT of all biology graduates and at least that many if not a full 2/3rds or more of fucking EVERYTHING else.

      The only one changing the subject here is you and the other shameless FUD spreaders trying to wave a red herring like CompSci that's only 10% of conferred degrees. You're a bunch of mendacious dissemblers screaming "pay no attention to literally every measure of academic success and every other degree out there, look only at our dishonest cherry picked outliers!".

      It is an indisputable fact that women absolutely DOMINATE every aspect of the US education system from start to finish and top to bottom. There is no disparity anywhere in the education system which FAVORS men, only disparities ranging from profound to catastrophic which harm them, and it's disgusting that this is still not enough for people like you. It's not fucking derailing to point this out on a news story specifically about boys being openly thrown to the wolves.

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    22. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Shadow+of+Eternity · · Score: 2

      FTFY: http://www.randalolson.com/201...

      --
      A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
    23. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by NoKaOi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      uh, yeah, i've had extensive elite education in STEM, in the US. it's mostly a sausage fest. statistics will back this up and, no, they're not fabricated by teh feminist conspiracy.

      I agree, but that sure as hell doesn't give them the right to be sexist, and disallow certain people from participating based solely on their gender. The Civil Rights Act, which has been law for 50 years, specifically disallows it. Just because it's in favor of a minority doesn't change it. And they weren't just favoring girls in cases where otherwise the merit was equal (affirmative action), they were specifically disallowing boys.

      How would people feel if the sentence had instead read: "This holiday season, Google and the National Parks partnered to let boys program the White House Christmas tree lights," and instead they banned girls from participating? How is one direction of sexism moral, ethical, and legal, if the other isn't?

    24. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, and the fact that most teachers are women demonstrates that indeed something is actually broken and needs fixing.
      Also, most nurses are female, such a monoculture cannot be healthy. And most garbagemen are men, and surprisingly nobody tries to change that name into garbagehumans.
      The problem is, how do we measure what the actual problem is? What is the non-broken ratio of the sexes? And how do You know that it is 50-50? If it wasn't 50-50, how would we know? If less women apply, how can we know the reasons for it -- is it the sex bias of the employers, or is it a free choice of the individual?

    25. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I've seen zero indication it's for any reason beyond a lack of interest on the part of females

      That's certainly true by the time that you get to university level, but the important question is why? One of my hats is to be responsible for computer science admissions at an all-women Cambridge college. From what we see from international applicants, it's pretty clear that there are cultural factors putting off women in the UK and US from the subject. We're losing out on some of the top talent because something is putting them off even considering the subject by the time they're 14-16 years old (applications are at 17, but A-level selection is at 15-16 and that's strongly influenced by GCSE choices at 13-14).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    26. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Care to list girls dominated STEM fields?

      Women are a majority of Bachelor's degree earners in Psychology (by far), Social Sciences, and Biology. They are close to even in Math and Statistics (45.9%), behind in Physical Sciences, Geo-Sciences, and really behind in Engineering (20.5%) and Computer Science (25.1%).

      Overall though, across all Science and Engineering fields, women are 50.4% of Bachelor's degree holders.

      source

    27. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Time_Ngler · · Score: 2

      garbage humans -> waste collectors

    28. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      First off, quite a bit of a stretch there. You will find psychiatry, biology, ecology, etc dominated by women. It is 90-10, but more like 60-70% women. OTOH, if you are talking the hard science, then yeah, that is a sausage fest.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    29. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Rockoon · · Score: 4

      I agree that it is a problem that males are under-represented in many subject areas, but that doesn't mean that the under-representation of women in CS isn't a problem as well.

      No, thats exactly what it means in spite of your claim that it isn't. The onus is on you to show that a problem actually exists, much like the onus was on those that claimed that females are favored to provide citations (which they did.)

      This is how it works. Really. I guess the education system screwed you out of knowing that.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    30. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by LordLimecat · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Gender roles come from two places in modern America: One, Churches and other bastation of traditionalism;

      Im no expert on any of this, but I have read a little history on the period and I seemed to recall this being generally false. Lo and behold wikipedia agrees:

      The formal education of girls and women began in the middle of the 19th century and was intimately tied to the conception that society had of the appropriate role for women to assume in life....Many early women's colleges began as female seminaries and were responsible for producing an important corps of educators
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W...

      In fact, apparently the first women's college in the US was Salem College, a protestant institution established in 1772 by a denomination that was notable for believing in equal gender roles at a time that society did not reflect this.

      The revisionism as regards christianity and its relationships with education and women is astounding to me. You'll get things like this page, which allege that the loss of property rights in Rome was due to Christian policy in 306 AD-- despite the fact that Diocletian had just gotten done persecuting the church (as in seizing property and burning churches), and that Constantine would not become (supposedly) Christian for another decade or so. People will talk about the educational backwardism of Christianity, and ignore the role that religious orders played in the creation of universities in europe in the middle ages. Like you, people talk of how Christianity has tried to stifle women's education and utterly ignore its role in the creation of institutions dedicated to their education in a time when society had no desire to do so.

      The mainstream is looking for someone to blame,

      And so are you.

    31. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You dodged the question. Let me rephrase. Imagine all of the circumstances were the same. Except you substitute boys everywhere you see the word girls. I am not saying you ban anyone, just encourage it to boys instead. Would that have been fair to girls? Hell no. Therefore it wasn't fair to the boys in this situation.

    32. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Consider that on those occasions when men want to get in a female dominated field like primary education or daycare that a nontrivial portion of our society actively attacks them without much opposition. Nothing wrong there? Men take a huge portion of hazardous jobs with horrendous working conditions. We need to encourage women to get into those as well.

      I'm tired of made up problems. I work with a number of women in a very male dominated field. They're in this because they're good and they wouldn't last if they weren't. We should not actively discourage or block anybody from doing anything they want to and (this is important) have the ability for, but beyond that we don't owe anybody the dumbing down of ANY profession by putting people in it who don't really want to be there, which is what happens when you try to meet artificial "diversity" numbers too often. If you are not looking at qualified people there's a problem. If they're simply not present you have a choice: accept lesser candidates or accept that's how it is.

    33. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Richy_T · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Here's a shocker: Women are not a minority (in the US)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L...

      So this is actually repressing a minority (males).

    34. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      uh, yeah, i've had extensive elite education in STEM, in the US. it's mostly a sausage fest. statistics will back this up and, no, they're not fabricated by teh feminist conspiracy.

      i have to conclude that anyone who's bitterly complaining about women having taken over STEM is just a delusional loser who probably just couldn't hack it.

      The Veterinary field might be a better example of female dominance. And amazingly enough, that dominance is blamed on men being sexist discriminating pigs.

      http://www.justvetdata.com/mee...

      http://veterinarybusiness.dvm3...

      But wait, if 80 percent of veterinarians are women, is it the men (who are claimed to be "running away from female dominated fields" somehow responsible for the lower pay and greater debt of the 80 percent? Jesus Christ, if 8 out of ten people in a room are female, at some point you might try not blaming the 2 guys for every problem. Better stop at 99 percent so you'll have at least one guy left to blame.

      Something doesn't quite compute. One might be able to make an alternative speculation that a lot of women simply do not like men.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    35. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by mrchaotica · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Garbagemen are sanitation engineers.

      No they're not. Sanitation engineers are civil engineers who design waste collection systems (e.g. water treatment plants).

      Saying the guy on the truck is a sanitation engineer is like saying the dumbass at Jiffy Lube is an automotive engineer.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    36. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      Also, that men are rightfully terrified of being alone with small children. All it takes is one mom with a chip on her shoulder to say "molester" and there goes life, freedom, family, career...

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    37. Re: Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      Regardless of whether or not boys were outright banned, it was made clear boys were not welcome, and this was an activity for girls.

      If you advertised for a job and included the line "whites preferred," that wouldn't be racist at all, right? Because I mean, you'd take a minority, but you'd just much prefer whites.

      It's still bullshit. Just have a program for children to program the Christmas tree, and don't let gender be any part of it. That said, I still think the entire premise of these "get kids to code" endeavors is suspect. It's just the billionaires' club trying to produce a glut of programmers so they can depress wages. Just another part of the "no poaching" collusion & H1B hustle.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    38. Re:Considering how few boys graduate at ALL by Zxern · · Score: 2

      Actually valuing soft skills over hard skills will prepare them perfectly for the job environment in the western business culture. Everything coming out of HR at my company is stating this. Soft skills are far more valuable than hard skills when it comes to job progression. If you're good bs'er you'll move up the corporate ladder far faster than the next guy regardless of your comparative hard skill level.

  2. Congrats to the school, and mostly to the kids by argStyopa · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...for their terrific job and a wonderful tree display.

    And kudos also to the admins with the balls to tell the administration and Google to fuck off with their politically-correct bullshit.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Congrats to the school, and mostly to the kids by LordLucless · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Christmas trees are non-Christian Christmas decorations. They were imported into Christmas from the pagan Yule festival. Christian decorations would be crosses, crucifixes or nativity scenes.

      --
      Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there isn't an invisible demon about to eat your face
    2. Re:Congrats to the school, and mostly to the kids by Fwipp · · Score: 2, Informative

      You know that VAWA covers men, right?
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V...

      That seriously took me less than 15 seconds to find.

    3. Re: Congrats to the school, and mostly to the kids by reanjr9417 · · Score: 2

      Wicca, really? Cause Wicca dates back all the way to the 20th century.

    4. Re:Congrats to the school, and mostly to the kids by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      I went to the actual web site (https://www.madewithcode.com/) and it doesn't appear to exclude males at all. It is aimed at encouraging women to participate, if you click on the "code the holidays" link it just lets you start learning without even having to sign up, and certainly without declaring your gender.

      The whole controversy seems to be made-up.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  3. The second link is absolute crap! by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Informative
    I know it's not the style to read the articles, but the second link goes to a web site that shows a different story, and if you don't sign up, shoves you to their front page.

    Link bait.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  4. Makes things worse by auzy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    We do need more women in the tech field, but my feeling is that having exclusively female projects like this can actually widen the gap.

    What it basically says is that girls and boys can't work together, and it doesn't teach guys to work as coworkers with women. Furthermore, boys who wanted to join in, later in life may feel jealous that women always get what they want, and may avoid hiring women.

    A better approach would have been to have 2 trees, 1 for the females, 1 for the males.Nobody would feel left out then.

    1. Re:Makes things worse by ShaunC · · Score: 5, Insightful

      We do need more women in the tech field

      Why? Honest question.

      No one seems to be up in arms over women being underrepresented as, say, firefighters or airline pilots. No one's pushing men to become hair stylists or librarians. Yet millions and millions of dollars are being spent on exclusionary girls-only events like this, telling girls that they must learn to code. I don't get it. What's wrong with just encouraging kids, whatever genitalia they have, to follow their interests, whatever those may be? If a girl is into tech, or a boy is into makeup, encourage them to pursue those careers and bust up the stereotypes. I don't find sense in telling girls they need to be in the tech field, any more than telling boys they need to grow up and be cosmetologists.

      --
      Thanks to the War on Drugs, it's easier to buy meth than it is to buy cold medicine!
  5. Discrimination *is* discrimnation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Whether you like it or not, discrimination against boys is discrimination

    By trying to exclude the boys from the team, Google and the Democrats are telling the world that it is okay to discriminate against the boys

    1. Re:Discrimination *is* discrimnation by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Informative

      By trying to exclude the boys from the team, Google and the Democrats are telling the world that it is okay to discriminate against the boys

      Discrimination is nothing new for the Democrats. When its not about color or sex, its about class. Always defining a divide. Always pitting groups against each other.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
  6. Bogus and Sexist Programs by pubwvj · · Score: 4, Insightful

    These "Girls Only" programs are bogus and sexist. If they did it "Boys Only" there would be cries of discrimination and lawsuits. It is illegal to do sexual discrimination yet our government does it over and over "Girls Only." Time to cut the crap.

    1. Re:Bogus and Sexist Programs by tompaulco · · Score: 2

      Same with other programs. We have Ebony awards which are only for Blacks, Latino awards which are only for Hispanics, and all of the awards in which a white person can participate is required to include all races.
      Racism is still rampant and encouraged in America. You are required to treat people differently based on the color of their skin. There are certain things you can say to one race and not to another. You can defend yourself in your home or place of business from one race but not from another.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  7. Dear Ms. Knox by Tokolosh · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Thank you for restoring my faith.

    You have:
    1. Showed that discrimination is not cool.
    2. That disobedience is sometimes appropriate.

    These are most valuable lessons,

    I look forward to the day when there is gender parity among teaching staff at all public schools.

    --
    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
  8. Kudo's to St. Augustine of Canterbury school by Lokinator · · Score: 2

    Diversity is not about just moving the bigotry and discrimination around from one group to another, nor is it about creating artificial safe spaces that suppress both competition and actual achievement. It is with pleasure I note that apparently the leaders of St. Augustine have realized this and declined to participate in musical bigotry chairs. Let boys and girls, hetero and not, religious and secular, of dark hue and light participate on an equal playing field - defeating the racist meme as youth of all descriptions work to simply create the most effective approaches and, in this instance, the greatest beauty. Education shouldn't be about who has the coolest grievance or privilege card - it should be about who, through intellectual achievement, is best suited to a limited opportunity - and when opportunities are broad, they should be offered broadly without consideration of race, gender, orientation, religion, creed or philosophy.

    --
    "It is morally wrong to initiate the aggressive use of force.." Of course, defensive force is fair game...
  9. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 4, Insightful

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  10. I don't want to see gender pairty by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2

    The thing is, you find that as nations get more free and accepting of men and women to do what they please, gender parity isn't something that develops. In fact, some careers stratify even more. This isn't a bad thing, this is because men and women tend to have different interests. When things are fair and equal and you can pursue the career you wish, what they wish on average is different. That doesn't mean there aren't outliers, of course, but that you will find some careers are "gendered" in that one gender prefers them more than the other.

    We shouldn't try and stop that. We should just make sure that the reason someone chooses a career is because they want it, not because they have been prevented from entering another field and this is their second choice, and also not because they were pressured in to it. We want people to be truly free to do what they desire, without artificial barriers to that.

  11. Climate means men won't teach by s.petry · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Simple, every male teacher is a punching bag with a huge target on them. You smiled at the girl when she turned in her paper, you are a pedophile man! Girl hugs the male teacher, he goes to jail. Female teacher fucks a student, claims "alcohol was the problem" and walks away. Wholly fuck, you would not be able to pay me enough to teach with the current climate. No, I quit mentoring too for similar reasons! The only way a guy can be safe in a school is to have a woman with him 100% of the time, and he's still fucked if she decides he's no longer needed.

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

    1. Re:Climate means men won't teach by dwywit · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The "climate", as you use the term, is a big problem, and it worried me when my kids started school. We chose to send them to a private primary school (neo-humanist), and get involved. I've been a classroom helper with specialised tutoring in IT and making/editing videos, helping out in the cafeteria, etc for 11 years now, and my youngest child has just finished there.

      I took a big cut in annual income to be able to work the sort of hours that allowed my participation, but it's brought the benefits. My kids are fit & healthy - the cafeteria doesn't carry junk food, period - it's all freshly made, and although lunches from home are encouraged, they have to meet certain standards - no packs of crisps, no "muesli bars", no packaged sweets, no cup noodles, etc. The kids are allowed bare feet, allowed to climb trees, and swim in the creek at the school. The local public high school teachers that these kids end up with have consistently praised the amount self-reliance and maturity of kids from this school.

      I'm also well-known to the teachers, staff & other parents (especially the others that are into participation), and that's a valuable reputation. I've never had problems with parents leaving their children here for sleepovers, and vice versa - I trust my children's friends' parents. The seventh-grade teacher (female) once left me alone in charge of the whole class for an hour while she went home to collect some materials she'd forgotten.

      Get involved, people - even it you have to take a pay cut to do it. Change the climate, and start with yourself.

      --
      They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
  12. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 3, Interesting

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  13. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2

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