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Netflix Denies There Was a Policy Change With VPNs

Dangerous_Minds writes "The other day, Slashdot linked to a TorrentFreak story saying that Netflix was cracking down on VPN users. But PCMag has a story that quotes a Netflix spokesperson saying that there was no change in their policy on VPNs. Freezenet also did some digging around and found very few reports saying there were VPN access issues and even more reports from users say that their VPN solution is working for the time being."

67 comments

  1. They don't do it now by houghi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Does not mean they won't do it in the future. Especially when they are starting up in different countries.
    Although it also might be that they will be able to cut through the bullshit and just show their shows all over the world at the same time. They might have the leverage.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:They don't do it now by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not really in Netflix's interest to bust people for doing it anyway, especially if they can truly claim ignorance of the scale of it. After all, restricting countries by IP address could be considered reasonable, plus they get the revenue of the subscriptions that they might not otherwise have if people in those countries specifically signed up for Netflix in order to do this.

      It probably won't happen unless content owners sue.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    2. Re: They don't do it now by BuckaBooBob · · Score: 3, Informative

      Unless Netflix is furnishing them with access logs.. They have no idea how many people are circumventing the access controls deployed by Netflix... And in the end Netflix doesn't care if people do as long as the courts agree Netflix is taking reasonable measures to restrict content to the licensed region..

      --
      Who needs WiFi when we can have Packet Over Sheep! http://datacomm.org/PoS-InternetDraft.txt
    3. Re:They don't do it now by cayenne8 · · Score: 0

      I guess I'm missing something. Why would anyone need or want to use a VPN to connect to Netflix?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    4. Re:They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not really in Netflix's interest to bust people for doing it anyway, especially if they can truly claim ignorance of the scale of it. After all, restricting countries by IP address could be considered reasonable, plus they get the revenue of the subscriptions that they might not otherwise have if people in those countries specifically signed up for Netflix in order to do this.

      It probably won't happen unless content owners sue.

      And if the content owners do that, they lose whatever cut of the revenue they're getting from the subscribers Netflix would lose.

      Look! A squirrel!

    5. Re: They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because you want to watch the US content while not being located in the US, either because you are a US citizen who just happens to be elsewhere or because you are a foreigner who just likes the US content more than local content (if Netflix is even operating in your country)

    6. Re:They don't do it now by TWX · · Score: 2

      Well, the content owners that agreed to license their content to the television show or movie for a certain area (like the United States) or for a certain broadcast medium in that country (ie, one country's rules allow for Internet-transmission for TV shows with all of the music, other countries require the TV show producers to renegotiate a deal for the music) then someone is losing-out, and that's part of the reason why country-specific laws exist.

      It's just damned annoying as a consumer that I can't get a show on DVD or streaming that I watched on broadcast TV 20 years ago because the music isn't licensed for redistribution.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    7. Re:They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Netflix offers different selections of content to different countries(the largest selection is the US selection). I am in the UK and use a VPN to access Netflix US content.

    8. Re:They don't do it now by parlancex · · Score: 1

      Content availability on Netflix varies drastically in different regions due to licensing restrictions imposed by the publishers and rights holders for the movies and shows they have on their service. For example, if you access Netflix in America there is considerably more content available than if you access it from Canada, although there is some content available in Canada not available in America. It's a bit of a mess but it all works on Netflix's end by matching your IP address to a specific region rather than binding your account to a region. I suspect this method might be used due to legal concerns but may also be used to be fairer to users who legitimately travel between licensing regions. Using a VPN with an exit point in another region will of course bypass the system and allow you to access the content that region, which is what many folks are doing.

    9. Re:They don't do it now by whoever57 · · Score: 1

      I guess I'm missing something. Why would anyone need or want to use a VPN to connect to Netflix?

      Let's say that I normally live in the USA and I have a Netflix subscription. If I travel to Europe, and I want to stream a movie from Netflix, I am out of luck.

      Or, hypothetically, I share my subscription with a family member who doesn't live in the USA.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    10. Re:They don't do it now by oobayly · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Same here. Another thing to note is that the $5 I'm willing to pay unblock-us every month could go to Hollywood, but it turns out they don't want my money.

    11. Re: They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're right they don't want $5 a month from you, but...

    12. Re:They don't do it now by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Ah, thank you all for the explanations.

      I didn't realize Netflix was now outside the US at all.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    13. Re:They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the content owners that agreed to license their content to the television show or movie for a certain area (like the United States) or for a certain broadcast medium in that country (ie, one country's rules allow for Internet-transmission for TV shows with all of the music, other countries require the TV show producers to renegotiate a deal for the music) then someone is losing-out, and that's part of the reason why country-specific laws exist.

      It's just damned annoying as a consumer that I can't get a show on DVD or streaming that I watched on broadcast TV 20 years ago because the music isn't licensed for redistribution.

      You're assuming that if were Netflix to strictly limit access somehow to the proper region/country/whatever, the money Netflix gets from sources that would then be cut off would flow to content providers (maybe even Netflix) that supply content to those other regions/countries.

      I doubt that. That fact that Netflix and content providers seem to accept VPN access to Netflix content supports that belief, IMO. I'd venture that they're getting more money than they would if they cut off access.

    14. Re:They don't do it now by TWX · · Score: 1

      They accept VPN access because the VPN server in the United States is acting as a proxy for the network traffic, and they're not making an attempt to determine where possible VPN servers or networks to blacklist their IPs or the users on them.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    15. Re:They don't do it now by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Some ISPs have a congested connection to Netflix and VPN is many times an alternative uncongested route.

    16. Re:They don't do it now by war4peace · · Score: 1

      VM at home + NoMachine = using Netflix from anywhere without the need of VPN.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
    17. Re: They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      OMG! The AC died while typing!

    18. Re:They don't do it now by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      It probably won't happen unless content owners sue.

      Or the contracts come up for renewal and the content owners require netflix to agree to more explicit terms about what exactly they will do to minimise out-of-region users come renewal time.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    19. Re:They don't do it now by MagickalMyst · · Score: 1

      I'd rather pay ANYONE the $5 other than Hollywood.

      Especially some techie sitting in his/her basement trying to make some extra cash by running a proxy server that improves my viewing experience.

      --
      Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
    20. Re:They don't do it now by MichaelSmith · · Score: 1

      They have just started a service in Australia and probably view Australian customers of US netflix as competition they don't want. So they have started to clamp down on VPNs

    21. Re:They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even Hitler? Well....that's a tough one....

      Wow....Captchea: infringe

    22. Re:They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They accept VPN access because the VPN server in the United States is acting as a proxy for the network traffic, and they're not making an attempt to determine where possible VPN servers or networks to blacklist their IPs or the users on them.

      Are you really that dense? The point is that they willingly don't make such an attempt, and the GP speculates that they made that decision because they get more money that way.

    23. Re: They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nah, if he had, there would have been a distinct "Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggghhhhhhh......................" after it.

    24. Re: They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes I forgot. America, the only country in the world that matters...... to Americans. You should probably travel a bit. There's a great big world out there outside of 'Murica.

    25. Re:They don't do it now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it hasn't started in Australia yet. It's coming here in March.

  2. YAIH by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yet Another Internet Hoax. One day, I'm gonna screem, "I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!" and then block port 80 on my router.

    1. Re:YAIH by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Just as long as you leave port 443 open. You'll have most of the Internet, just no Slashdot.

  3. Whoa! by Shoten · · Score: 1

    What, you mean TorrentFreak isn't a valid source of journalism that checks sources and facts before reporting something?

    HOLY SHIT THAT'S SO SURPRISING :)

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
    1. Re:Whoa! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mind = blown. I mean, we aren't insinuating that TF would overhype a non story with dubious connections to torrents (this is netflix) just to get hits?

      Next you'll tell me people come post apple/MS/linux/sony/ flamebait just to get mod points..

  4. Nothing about proxy though by cloud.pt · · Score: 1

    Note that they didn't deny proxy blocking also reported in the ./ article. As it stands now, per their own exclusion, Netflix allows PAID fastlanes such as VPNs for users who already have to pay subscription AND Internet service, but they will not allow the much more convenient and free neutrality circumvention that proxies allow. This reeks of hipocrisy and/or a media stunt to shunt their own mistakes, and of a very nice deal to cash in with popular VPN services. Or at the very least not to fall on their worst grace.

    1. Re:Nothing about proxy though by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Please explain how proxies are more convenient or "free" than a VPN. Neither tend to be free, and VPNs tend to be more convenient than proxies in that many VPNs come with an application that has a handy on/off switch, while proxies typically require you to change your browser proxy settings every time you want to use netflix.

    2. Re:Nothing about proxy though by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Please explain how proxies are more convenient or "free" than a VPN. Neither tend to be free, and VPNs tend to be more convenient than proxies in that many VPNs come with an application that has a handy on/off switch, while proxies typically require you to change your browser proxy settings every time you want to use netflix.

      Please explain how proxies and VPNs are different.
      (Hint: They're not - they're both just routes.)

    3. Re:Nothing about proxy though by petermgreen · · Score: 1

      The real distinction is "partial coverage" vs "full coverage".

      AIUI there have been soloutions that divert the authentication/setup traffic via a US ISP but still allow the bulk traffic to flow directly between the user and the netflix CDN. Presumablly this works because the CDN servers don't re-check the geo blocking. This is much cheaper than diverting everything through a proxy or VPN but also much easier for netflix to stop if they decide to do so.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    4. Re:Nothing about proxy though by xalorous · · Score: 1

      Proxy is loading your traffic through someone else's server. Only proxy aware and configured applications will communicate through the proxy.

      VPN sets up an encrypted tunnel allowing your computer to be located at a different node when connecting to the internet. Virtually moving your PC to their network. All of your traffic will normally pass through that encrypted tunnel.

      --
      TANSTAAFL GIGO Acronyms to live by!
    5. Re:Nothing about proxy though by cloud.pt · · Score: 1

      This is exactly what I meant. They are allowing a fastlane with VPN's (which are usually paid), much like they don't want ISP's to force them to pay. But they will block proxies which are, unlike Guspaz said, usually free, and will only route part of the traffic. I think they are saving face with these comments: VPN's are usually associated with freedom rights and private internet usage in problematic countries, say China, while proxies are most commonly knwon for basic circumvention of commercial region locks, like most audio/video/digitally purchased content.

  5. technology! by slashmydots · · Score: 1, Insightful

    It's almost as if VPN providers didn't build their services to stream 200GB of bandwidth per month for some jackass paying $9.99 and would ban those types of bandwidth hogs from their service. You know, back in reality they do that. In fantasy land, apparently EVERYONE is using VPNs and proxies to stream perfect quality HD content and it's an epidemic.

    1. Re:technology! by ddtmm · · Score: 2

      I wouldn't call those jackasses bandwidth hogs (or jackasses). They are paying a rate set by the VPN provider and that's that. If the VPN provider wasn't making money they would up the rates, or cap bandwidth. They're doing neither. Bandwidth usage is not as expensive as the providers would like you to think. In Canada the the big ISPs (Rogers, Bell..) are mandated to provide wholesale service to smaller resellers (e.g. teksavvy.com) to increase competition and choice. Resellers are able to resell the exact same services the big guys offer, at 2-4 times the cap and at 2/3 the price. In some cases they offer true unlimited still cheaper than the paltry caps the incumbents sell for. Small to medium size businesses generally get unlimited data and in most cases don't pay much more than residential for compatible speeds. The way it's supposed to be.

    2. Re:technology! by adolf · · Score: 1

      I use a VPN provider which does not care what I do with it, or how much data I transfer. They guarantee 4Mbps, minimum, of symmetric bandwidth availability. They actively encourage people to use the service as they see fit, and even offer (quite slow) services for free to people living in very restrictive jurisdictions.

      And it's cheaper than $9.99/month.

    3. Re:technology! by Bengie · · Score: 1

      The difference between the bandwidth prices for some datacenters is not because bandwidth is expensive, but because they pay a premium to be directly peered with thousands of networks. Really, some datacenters have 4+ transit providers and have direct connections to over 1,000 different high profile networks. You're not paying for "bandwidth", you're paying for high quality, low latency, highly resilient bandwidth.

      There are plenty of datacenters that offer cheap bandwidth that does doesn't come with 10ms latencies and 0ms of jitter, but most home users don't care about 99.999% uptime and every additional 10ms of latency reducing their revenue by $10m/year.

  6. Words and meanings by DarkOx · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Netflix spokesperson saying that there was no change in their policy on VPNs.

    Might very well be true, but that statement says nothing about the frequency of enforcement; which might have changed.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    1. Re:Words and meanings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My workaround still works. Netflix has no real incentive to enforce it, except as to get licensors off their back. If VPNing gets too prevalent, licensor will apply pressure. If it stays relatively low %, it's safe.

    2. Re:Words and meanings by hodet · · Score: 1

      I know many non-technical people that are bypassing the restrictions. I think you will see a clamp down on any method that has a critical mass of people using it. Safe to say using your own VPS as a socks5 proxy will never be blocked. But if you are using goober's "geobypass4netflix.com" then it may get blocked.

    3. Re:Words and meanings by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This. Read between the lines, all the policy they could ever need will already be in place somewhere in the fine print. If/when the milkers of imaginary property pressure them more, they still won't need to change policy.

      > "We use industry standard methods to block VPNs. Always have and always will," a Netflix spokesman said,

      They're doing lip service, but much like the ISPs hounded into sending out angry letters to torrent swarms, they're not really interested in actively (and at expense) cannibalizing their own customers. Only as much as is necessary for placation. They pick their poison. Rock and a hard place. Kobayashi Maru.

    4. Re:Words and meanings by DarkOx · · Score: 1

      Oh I am sure this is the case, to a degree. I was just pointing out that their statement was basically meaningless.

      To your point however, Netflix has more incentive to comply than the ISP did/do. In the case of the content industry vs. ISPs:

      The ISPs just need to do enough to avoid legal responsibility. They had basically two options, they could claim to be common carriers and just say "we don't wiretap" so we don't know and are not responsible for what's on our network. Doing so would have limited their future opportunity to monetize all the marketing intel they get now by responding to bogus DNS lookups and other sniffing, ad injection etc.

      Instead the block a torrent site once in a great while and send a few toothless nastygrams to customers that are so abusive its hard not to notice. That keeps them from being accused of interference content industry license agreements and similar legal attacks.

      Netflix vs. Content industry:
      All the same considerations the ISPs have but also they are a direct counter party to negotiations with those content providers. If the MPAA is unhappy with a big ISP they can't do much unless they have a legal challenge. Its not like Disney is going to make their site unavailable to anyone coming from an Comcast IP or something. It would do them more harm.

      Netflix on the other hand, needs the content more than the content needs Netflix. Big Content has lots of distribution outlets. They could decide not to license their content to Netflix if they don't think Netflix is playing by the rules they agreed to follow, or they might charge them more if they think Netflix is cannibalizing revenue from the other distribution outlets.

      So yes they pick their poison. There is optimizing to be done though. It might be more profitable to cut loose a few thousand customers outside their service regions in order to keep the licensing costs for the content they need to retain their other customers down.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  7. Not bad for the price by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Movies and TV Shows get shuffled around regions do to the license agreements so I'm sure that whatever popular TV Show is gone from USA will be back in 2 to 5 years just like Friends came back. But the fact is Netflix and even Hulu are definitely a lot better than broadcast and cable TV do to the amount of selection available. I always end up re-watching the movies and tv shows that I like anyway.

  8. Nothing New: Meaning we've always done it. by Jason+Pollock · · Score: 4, Informative

    The quote is this:

            "We use industry standard methods to block VPNs. Always have and always will"

    They're just fixing the bug.

  9. Im surprised they don't already by CimmerianX · · Score: 1

    Just like Hulu, in a concession to content providers who are paranoid that someone from Qatar might use VPN to watch Family Guy if Hulu didn't pay for the licensing rights.

    Netflix is the same. People from banned countries use VPN to make it seem they are in the US to watch content.

    Solution is simply to get 10 people to buy in on a small hosted server in the US and run your own proxy. Small enough to avoid detection and people can still watch Family guy

    1. Re:Im surprised they don't already by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      No the solution is to realize that the internet is designed to route around failures, and not being able to get content is seen as a failure. The only thing that this is actually doing is making it more difficult for legitimate users wanting legitimate content from getting it. They will route around the problem until the internet is broken by people who don't know how the internet actually works.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    2. Re:Im surprised they don't already by johanw · · Score: 1

      Too much hassle. If the copyright maffia doesn't want my money, fine, then I'll just torrent the movies and series.

    3. Re:Im surprised they don't already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The REAL solution is to stop pretending like it's the 60s and realise that the current business model has exactly 0 place being here in 2015. It's a global world. How much money could they make if countries who currently don't even have access to content were given access to content.

  10. Hola on Android by splutty · · Score: 1

    I had issues with Hola on my Android, which got resolved after an upgrade of Hola itself. After that it got broken somehow again, where Netflix is unable to see a network connection. That then got resolved again by rebooting the device.

    On my main desktop I've not seen any issues.

    So I think this is an isolated issue where certain things broke as opposed to Netflix being responsible.

    One of the things that make me quite convinced of that is that I still get the nice 'You're watching Netflix from a different country, keep these things in mind' popup from Netflix, with the mentions of different series/etc being available for you, and your favourite series might be missing.

    --
    Coz eternity my friend, is a long *ing time.
  11. Policy has always deterred against VPNs by BlueMonk · · Score: 1
    Even if the statement is that their policy hasn't changed, that doesn't say that their policy allows VPN access, according to a CNET article:

    "We say very specifically that VPNs violate the terms of our service, and we believe very much so that anybody who licenses content should get paid for their content," he said. "We hear a lot in every market about this, and what we tend to find too is that, after launch, these issues drop significantly."

    -- CNET

    The reason it might still be working for many is that they are not using updated software that might be checking IP addresses internally, either innocently for other reasons, or to specifically start enforcing this policy in a limited scope.

  12. Re:Do whatever the f. you want with VPNs... by Anonymous+CowWord · · Score: 2

    You seem like one of those people who would say "Look at country XYZ wasting money investing in space travel/launches while half their people are starving". Just because someone cares about ethics doesn't mean that they should spend every last dollar on charity. It sucks that the world is divided economically as it is today, but people in better off parts shouldn't have to feel guilty about spending a little on themselves; cerainly not for the small amount (in developed countries) that Netflix costs.

    --


    Disclaimer: My opinions are my own and do not, in any way, reflect the opinions of my employer or university.
  13. TorrentFreak, Wrong as Always. by Khyber · · Score: 0

    "The Pirate Bay is dead!"

    Yet the site is alive and something new is coming down the pipeline.

    "Netflix is blocking VPNs!"

    Have not and likely wil not.

    Quit fucking reporting TorrentFreak stories.

    --
    Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
  14. Torrentfreak wrong? by Computershack · · Score: 0

    Torrentfreak being wrong. There's a surprise. I swear they break out a box of tissues every time they hear a rumour and can't waste to post it as fact.

    --
    I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't looking good either. - Scott Adams
  15. Netflix releases seed story by netsavior · · Score: 1

    Netflix has ensured that every user who reads the news (or facebook) now has the correct string of words to google in order to get around the country code restrictions mandated by netflix's contracts with content owners.

    I predict a surge in "netflix vpn how" google searches
    followed by netflix "negotiations" with content owners to relax country restrictions that "obviously don't even work"

  16. Re:Do whatever the f. you want with VPNs... by omnichad · · Score: 1

    Hollywood content is bad enough with a big budget. Imagine if everyone took your view and they had zero budget.

  17. WTF by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Three days of useless Netflix stories that weren't even stories at all. Who keeps jumping the gun on posting this stuff?

    If the main posted stories at Slashdot keep going the way they have been the slogan will have to change to "Slashdot, home of useless drivel."

  18. Re:Do whatever the f. you want with VPNs... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ohhh...that really sucks! Well, I guess that when they'll stop making movies, I'll watch all those that I already have again. Believe me, they are enough. :D

  19. Weasel answer - of course it's not a policy change by Sarusa · · Score: 1

    Of course it's not a policy change. Their policy has always(?) been this isn't allowed. It's just a change in the enforcement.

  20. It's all lies and spin by Chayat · · Score: 1

    The simple fact of the matter is that Netflix don't really care who you are or where you live or what content they provide you. Netflix wants your subs

    Netflix wants happy licence-holders to keep getting the content to encourage more subs.

    IP holders divide up licences by region in order to sell them for the highest price so they have an interest in Netflix enforcing region based restrictions.

    Netflix know they will lose many users and therefore subs if they are effective at stopping VPNs/proxies.

    So Netflix will improve and expand their attempts to stop people bypassing the content restrictions to keep the IP owners happy but they will be careful to keep just a step shy of achieving this goal lest they lose their subs.

  21. Plausible Deniability by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    It is in their best interests to have the impression that they are complying, and the plausibility that they are, so that content owners continue to maintain licence agreements with them, and don't sue or would have a hard time proving that Netflix isn't doing as much as it should be doing to prohibit access where required. That said, it is also in their best interest to do the bare minimum so as to allow some users to do this if they really want to so as to keep using the service.

    Last year for example in Canada the CRTC in a thinly veiled attack (Competing services coming out from Bell and Rogers the same year) being largely in the pocket of the two primary Canadian media companies, demanded that Netflix release their customer list and assorted information under the guise of complying with Canadian Content laws. Netflix basically gave them the finger, and said that they are not subject to the same laws as TV and radio, and that even if they were, that they were compliant anyway. I am assuming that on the face of it, that the titles available in the Canada version of Netflix makes them compliant, and not the actual usage, or in the context of this particular conversation, the number of Canadian subscribers that access the US version of Netflix to bypass it altogether.

    In other words they maintain a facade and plausibility, and enough legal wiggle room should it ever come to it, that they could make a very good case in court that they are indeed doing everything "reasonably" possible to protect the rights of content holders with licence agreements and to meet local law requirements.

  22. money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    may as well say they're cracking down on paying customers--logic