Slashdot Mirror


The Downside of Connected Healthcare: Cyberchondria

MollsEisley writes: Like hypochondria, cyberchondria is simply a more elegant way of saying "it's all in your head" — only in this case the people self-diagnosing are using tenuous data gleaned from the Internet and our ever-connected gadgets to support their hypotheses. Virtually everyone who has put the Microsoft Band through its paces has come away with the claim that its heart rate monitor is simply bad. ... The Moto 360’s heart rate monitor doesn’t fare much better, and in only the most perfect, motionless conditions will it provide anything close to an accurate reading. These are horribly inaccurate health tools, yet they are used as bullet points for would-be buyers to cling to. ... Even WebMD—the service that has given so many cyberchondriacs the fuel to continue guessing—has a note on every single one of its countless pages that states the site “does not provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.” And yet, that’s the one and only thing most people use WebMD for.

22 of 79 comments (clear)

  1. Self-diagnosis by ciascu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Surely hyperchondria will always find a way, the internet just makes it more efficient? In fairness to WebMD, what something is intended for and what people choose to use it for can be very different - I'd say, up to a reasonable point, if WebMD is fulfilling its primary purpose for which it was created, people need to take responsibility for the risks they take in depending on it while ignoring the advice to defer to a clinician, whether there's five of them or five hundred thousand. If they can't understand that responsibility, the problem is with the education system, not the internet.

    Somebody recently pointed out that if you Google "chest pain" you could end up thinking it was harmless and you should just ignore it. They evidently hadn't tried Googling it. I continue to see ads on the TV saying, "please use your common sense if you have cold or flu symptoms to decide whether you have a serious risk, as going to your GP or A&E blocks services for others", and not "if you think you have a brain tumour, stay at home", so it seems internet self-diagnosis may not even be the primary issue. At what percentage do the few serious cases, who wouldn't have otherwise bothered going to a doctor, outweigh the number of Cyberchondriacs enabled by the same process?

    1. Re:Self-diagnosis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      You didn't mention the actual condition (apart from the joint hypermobility syndrome) but the fact that you said it is genetic defect affecting collagen makes me think the condition is Ehlers Danlos Syndrome.

      As someone who has been in a similar situation for all of my 26 years of life, and also managed to self diagnose after a lot of research, I can completely understand this. I too did not know that it wasn't normal to be in chronic pain all the time until a few years ago... the search for a reason began. It wasn't until my own research led me to joint hypermobility syndrome, and then onto Ehlers Danlos, that anyone even bothered to pay attention. Almost all of my joints bend backwards, my skin is super stretchy and I have many other related symptoms (that in and of themselves do not seem to point to something larger... until you connect the dots)

      I have sat in countless Drs offices and explained my symptoms, and been told it was all normal. It wasn't until about a year ago that I actually told a GP to google Ehlers Danlos and check off my symptoms against the lists described on various websites. Sure enough... he sent me to a specialist straight away, and, just like your wife, it turns out there actually was something wrong.... Ehlers Danlos Syndrome.

      Since then I have started exploring treatment options, some of which are helpful, others not so much. I also will probably be in the situation where I have to apply for disability while I try to stabilise my condition and get myself back on my feet and figure out my long term plan, but like your wife, atleast now I know what to do and what not to do.

      It is reassuring to know I am not the only one in this situation, and I am glad to hear of the positive outcome you have had when dealing with such horrible problems. I feel for your wife and the pain and suffering she has endured over the years but I am filled with hope that she is now coping with her condition and leading a much better life.

      Thank you for your post. After a day filled with specialist appointments (a few of which I had to explain my condition to) it is good to know that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and that you, like me, found self diagnosis to be useful in what is a very rare and obscure condition (that many Drs have not even heard of).

      All the best and thank you to you both, from another 'bendy' individual

    2. Re:Self-diagnosis by u38cg · · Score: 2

      one bonus when it comes to childbirth!

      And nine months previously ^_^

      --
      [FUCK BETA]
  2. It's the "you can't sue us" escape clause. by SeaFox · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Even WebMD—the service that has given so many cyberchondriacs the fuel to continue guessing—has a note on every single one of its countless pages that states the site “does not provide medical advice, diagnosis or treatment.”

    Oh come now.
    The reason that line exists is obviously for legal liability, it isn't any sort of evidence of how accurate (or lack of) WebMD considers their own information.

  3. Privacy and freedom. by EzInKy · · Score: 2

    Those are the costs of "connected" healthcare. Humans are a hateful venfeful bunch and maybe those qualities served them well in the past by ridding themselves of the ill suited for humanhood, but today the homogenity these qualities aspire to will also lead to mankinds demise. Diversity is the key to survival, not "sameness".

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
  4. Early symptoms of many diseases... by EzInKy · · Score: 2

    ....are very similar, probably because the human body responds to different threats in similar manners. Self diagnosis is, at least today, the only way to busy bodies out of ones private business sadly.,

    --
    Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
  5. Self-diagnosis by ledow · · Score: 5, Informative

    My ex-wife had a serious, debilitating condition that saw her in chronic pain and sometimes housebound.

    It was only when I met her and realised that there was something wrong that I asked her about it and she realised it WASN'T normal to be in constant pain, unable to walk. But there was more than that. The doctors had put her on painkillers, antidepressants, sleeping tablets, etc. to try to ease the symptoms but nobody had actually bothered to diagnose it.

    And there were odd things. Her joints were in constant pain but, when she wasn't hurting, she was able to do karate moves that Jean Claude Van Damme would be jealous of. She had an extreme range of movement. And when she was in pain, things like her knees and elbows would GO BACKWARDS, making it even more painful to do anything and making her unable to walk.

    We looked up the symptoms. The first batch of hits was Hypermobility Syndrome (now called Joint Hypermobility Syndrome). The list of things is gave as common side-effects and symptoms fit perfectly, as well as a number of things that until we read them we didn't think were related at all. It's a genetic defect in the way collagen is made, which gives so many odd and unrelated symptoms that it stands out by a mile.

    We printed everything off, went to the doctor. He was astounded. He'd never heard of it. He'd never realised she had the range of symptoms available to match it even if he had. He sent her immediately to a consultant specialist. In two minutes, and a simple joint-range test, he said "Yes, you have hypermobility". Within a month, she was able to claim disability. Within a couple of years, she was managing the condition and had enough support to return back to work and live a pretty normal life (even teaches karate). Because now she KNOWS what she has, she knows what to do and what not to do, and has constant, background medication of the right kind to combat the pain. At one point, she was going to be put on morphine to stop the pain because they just didn't know what it was.

    It was that easy. And it wouldn't have happened without a bit of Internet research. She'd suffered for nearly 30 years with it without any diagnosis (once she was told she might have arthritis - which is an extremely common misdiagnosis of hypermobility symptoms - but they excluded it because, well, she could move her joints more than anyone else!). And she'd had suffered at least several more if we hadn't bothered to check symptoms.

    Doctors aren't perfect. Don't just assume they are stupid, though. But only you know your symptoms, only you have the time and effort and impetus to find out what you have (especially if you live in a country where doctors get paid by the test, fucking disgusting), and only you are the one who will benefit if you find out what you have.

    The doctor was great, once he knew we were right. He was supportive and immediately helpful. He just didn't know about every condition on the planet. And although she has a diagnosis, there is no real prognosis - the condition never gets better, but at least you can manage it. The consultant basically diagnosed her and then that was it - there's nothing you can really do, medically, to "fix" it.

    So don't be a hyperchondriac and think you have everything. But if you're certain something's wrong, and you find something that matches, see what the differentials are and see if you can't get it eliminated. At the very least, if your doctors note that you asked about it and they said it "couldn't be" that thing, then you have something to go and push in their face when they turn out to be wrong. But more likely, they will try to appease you that it's NOT that thing, run a few tests, and therefore get you closer to a real diagnosis.

    Internet research isn't useless, if you have half a brain.

  6. What other choice is there? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Physicians don't do diagnoses like they used to. They look at you, consider your condition for all of 5 seconds, and prescribe whatever will get you out of their hair. They don't diagnose, they don't think, they don't care. When I had my condition a couple of years ago, one of the doctors actually asked me what tests I wanted to run. I was like, what the fuck, how the fuck should I know? But that's how it is. So what is there to do? Do your own research on the internet and become your own pathologist. :( And unfortunately there are tons of spammer optimized-for-google pages out there for every medical condition in the world. They all have a few paragraphs of useless copy and tons of ads inline. Go to a forum? It's all the same, pages of questions and few answers. So you have to spend tons of time learning about your symptoms from the ground up, and then try to guess what you might have, and then go ask a doctor for those tests. Good luck diagnosing yourself, because doctors don't do that shit any more.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:What other choice is there? by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's my gf's experience as well. Unfortunately her symptoms are somewhat generic and fit a wide range of conditions (MS, Parkinsons, epilepsy, spinal issues, stroke, the list goes on) so self-diagnosis is pretty useless, and since these cover several medical specialisms, each physician so far has said "It's probably [something that's not his specialism]". The last one said it's probably psychological. Great. "Luckily" the other day she had an attack right there in the neurologist's office, who was so shocked that at least they agreed to run a series of tests to start excluding some possibilities.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    2. Re:What other choice is there? by NormalVisual · · Score: 2

      Physicians don't do diagnoses like they used to. They look at you, consider your condition for all of 5 seconds, and prescribe whatever will get you out of their hair.

      Until I moved a couple of years ago, I had a doctor that was the exact opposite. It wasn't unusual for him to spend half an hour going over things with me, and he also practiced what he preached - the guy was in his 60s, but didn't smoke and was ridiculously fit. He was also almost always behind on his appointment schedule, but I cut him a lot of slack because he actually did spend time with his patients and was truly interested in their health.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    3. Re:What other choice is there? by Charliemopps · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Physicians don't do diagnoses like they used to. They look at you, consider your condition for all of 5 seconds, and prescribe whatever will get you out of their hair. They don't diagnose, they don't think, they don't care. When I had my condition a couple of years ago, one of the doctors actually asked me what tests I wanted to run. I was like, what the fuck, how the fuck should I know? But that's how it is. So what is there to do? Do your own research on the internet and become your own pathologist. :( And unfortunately there are tons of spammer optimized-for-google pages out there for every medical condition in the world. They all have a few paragraphs of useless copy and tons of ads inline. Go to a forum? It's all the same, pages of questions and few answers. So you have to spend tons of time learning about your symptoms from the ground up, and then try to guess what you might have, and then go ask a doctor for those tests. Good luck diagnosing yourself, because doctors don't do that shit any more.

      You're right. It's because doctors have "Stats" now. Like they're DSL tech support reps. The HMO's got tired of the doctors ordering all that expensive "Treatment"

      Every time I go in I take in all my own literature, much to my doctors dismay who gets irritated and once even suggested that I had Hypochondria. I said, "Great, you finally made a diagnoses. Now treat me." Unsurprisingly he did not schedule a followup mental health appointment for me. When I got to the doctor I go well prepared like I'm about to file a lawsuit. You have to bully doctors into doing their jobs these days.

  7. The downside of one-sided propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    TFA is a naked propaganda from the medical profession

    They made up a new term by attaching "cyber" to one of their existing term to denote the 'foolishness' of their patients

    But on the other hand, the medical profession themselves never - and dare not to - tell the world how many patients they have killed, either due to mis-diagnose, or wrongly prescribe medicine to their patients

    I won't mention any other case other than one that happened to my dear old dad --- he has high blood pressure and every single day he has to take medicine to put his blood pressure back into the 'normal' range

    One time a doctor (not the same doctor, but another doctor) prescribed him another medicine (for what I forgot) and when he took that new medicine with his high blood pressure pills his blood pressure shot way up, to 200 over 160, or so

    Alarmed at that all the other members my family were about to rush him to the hospital, I gathered up all his medicine and ran a check online

    Long and behold, the new medication, as indicated by many online sites, can *NOT* be taken with the type of high blood pressure medicine that my dad was taking

    I asked him to stop taking that new medication, and within 8 hours his blood pressure dropped back to his 'normal' range (by only taking his usual high blood pressure medicine)

    Yet, the medical profession tried to imply that people like me who checked information online are 'cyber' whatever

    I rather be 'cyber' whatever than put my blind trust on anyone, especially those who could - intentionally or not, - prescribe me medication that can burst my arteries and veins

    1. Re:The downside of one-sided propaganda by Carewolf · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Woah there. Relax.

      Anything that promotes professionals over quacks and amateurs is a good thing. Considering the source of health information for most people comes from nonsense planted into the news media by quacks, I can't see anything negative in promoting talking to professionals.

    2. Re:The downside of one-sided propaganda by jonnythan · · Score: 2

      No, it really is kind of a big deal. WebMD is for-profit and largely funded by advertisers such as pharmaceutical companies. The site uses clickbait-style headlines to drive page views and actively preys on fear.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02...
      http://www.washingtontimes.com...

      (I replied to the wrong post above, sorry for the dupe)

    3. Re:The downside of one-sided propaganda by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2

      My impression is that most physicians feel they have far too little time to investigate and think about patients' problems. In the U.S., I imagine that comes from a limited number of doctors, (proximately) from insurance companies.

      I'd wager that if doctors, especially GP's, had twice as much time per patient, a lot of your concerns would be alleviated.

    4. Re:The downside of one-sided propaganda by BigSlowTarget · · Score: 3, Insightful

      >I can't see anything negative in promoting talking to professionals.

      Thanks, that will be $70 for removing a splinter, $70 for a cold that can't be treated, $70 for a minor sprained ankle that you should just stay off of for a week or two. There are times for professionals and there are times that they simply aren't needed. If you don't have hundreds of dollars to spend listening to people tell you something is minor and to come back if it gets worse then you need to use sound judgement instead of running to the doctor with every boo boo. Sound judgement includes consulting reasonable information sources but it all to often seems they are paywalled, tort-terrorized into saying "just see a doctor" or blocked out by quackery websites.

      That doctor traffic also is why often you can't get an appointment to have someone look at a significant condition for a week and a half and why Americans go to the emergency room so often - where they can wait long periods before being treated for serious issues. That is the downside in promoting talking to professionals. There is no downside in shooting down quacks unless worse quacks take their place.

  8. Personally I use WebMD for Information by msobkow · · Score: 2

    Personally, I use WebMD for information about something after I or a friend have been diagnosed. I guess I'm not "most people." :P

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  9. MS Band by SternisheFan · · Score: 2

    So Microsoft Band does not work reliably, glad others have paid to test that out, saves me from spending my money.

  10. ah yea... by Charliemopps · · Score: 2

    I've heard this and heard this. I say, SCREW DOCTORS. Oh... I'm making you do your job by looking things up on the internet. I'm sorry if I'm messing up your "Stats" by refusing to take the random pill you suggested this week and requested an actual exam.

    I've had a couple of health problems in my life that went on for years I went through doctor after doctor, pill after pill and no doctor went further than whatever the last drug rep to visit their office had suggested. In one case I had almost constant fatigue, I was falling asleep in the middle of the day, then would get manic, sweating profusely. They blew me off, told me it was "All in my head" sent me to a shrink... Then Finally my wife was watching Opra one day and that's when she had her Thyroid issues and went on T.V. to tell everyone to get theirs checked. Her symptoms were similar to some of mine so I went back to the doctor and asked "Have you ever checked my TSH?" It's a standard, rudimentary test for thyroid function that everyone should have checked once a year by most accounts. The doctor looked through my chart... nope! Sure enough I had Graves Disease. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
    Opra Winfery diagnosed me. I'd been through probably a dozen doctors and it was a talk show host. Even then, my regular doctor and a specialist refused to do anything.. at all... saying that even medication would mess up their testing! This went on for months. I switched doctors, the new doctor also refused and suggested that the HMO had procedures he had to follow. Eventually I ended up having a Thyroid Storm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T...
    and ended up in the Emergency Room. They called an on-call Endocrinologist who was floored my levels were at what they were at and prescribed me medication and told me I needed to demand Radio-iodine treatment asap. I explained all the trouble I was having and he said "Once they get this ER bill I doubt you'll have any more trouble." He was right. I switched HMO's 2 months later.

    Doctors can burn in hell. They don't care about people, they care about keeping their HMO/PPO happy and making their bonuses. I could have died because of their incompetence and focus on their bottom line.

    1. Re:ah yea... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 2

      Doctors these days are employees - just like you. Your boss tells you to "improve quality" (i.e., "financial quality") by increasing throughput, sticking to Bayesian most-probable/most cost-effective care pathways, and sticking to the script, you'll do it, if you value your job. Remember - just because a doctor doesn't diagnose you correctly (especially for low probability conditions) doesn't mean he's diagnosing everyone incorrectly. In fact, outliers happen.

      Sorry for your bad experience, but medicine is statistics/quant driven these days (just like everything else). The fact is that you did get a diagnosis and your doctors acknowledged that after you brought it to their attention. What more do you expect from a system that's chronically understaffed and seems to exist (like other systems in our country) to funnel ever-larger amounts of money into corporate coffers? Don't be pissed off at your overworked doctor - be pissed off at the corporations and hospitals that make sure there isn't time to do adequate diagnosis.

      --
      That is all.
  11. WebMD a starting point by jittles · · Score: 2

    Anytime I feel like there may be something wrong with me, I consult the symptom tracker on WebMD. Do I then go into my doctor and tell them that I have x, y, or z? No. I go in there and present my symptoms to my doctor and get their expert opinion and see whether it coincides with what I read online. I don't try and steer them in any particular direction. But when the doctor decides that I should be tested for z, I can have an intelligent conversation with him about what that actually means, and whether or not that is a useful course of action for me. Should these sites disappear because of hypochondriacs? No. They will just go to the library and check out books to self-diagnose their crazy diseases. You can't fix that sort of mental disorder by hiding information from people. Does it cause frustration for doctors? Absolutely. But the doctors should educate their patients on the appropriate use for these tools. None of the doctors I know have ever had a discussion with their patients about online medical resources. They just go home and huff and puff to their friends and family how they have to fight with WebMD empowered patients.

  12. Re:The downside of having too much time in hands by jonnythan · · Score: 2

    No, it really is kind of a big deal. WebMD is for-profit and largely funded by advertisers such as pharmaceutical companies. The site uses clickbait-style headlines to drive page views and actively preys on fear.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02...
    http://www.washingtontimes.com...