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Heinlein's 'All You Zombies' Now a Sci-Fi Movie Head Trip
HughPickens.com writes: Sara Stewart reports at the NY Post that the new sci-fi movie Predestination, opening January 9, is "loopier than Spielberg's [Minority Report]; its plot twists and turns 'like a snake eating its tail,' one character remarks, until you're not sure whether its developments are even plausible in a fictional universe." It's based on Robert A. Heinlein's science fiction classic All You Zombies, first published in 1959. The story involves a number of paradoxes caused by time travel, further developing themes explored by Heinlein in a previous work, By His Bootstraps, published some 18 years earlier. Predestination's plot concerns the intersection of a time-traveling assassin and an androgynous young writer
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"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
Looper wasn't bad as they used multiple actors for the different ages. Is showing the audience that this person is the older/ younger version of themselves.
I often find time travel loops in movies are hard to sort out which character is from which reality/time.
Books it is easier.
i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
I watched this film and and followed the plot fine, but was left feeling very unsatisfied at the end of it.
Most movies involving time travel generally try avoid paradoxes or major plot holes, but with Predistination actively embraces time travel paradoxes, taking them to the extreme.
Maybe someone thought it would make for a "deep" and clever plot, and I had no problem following it, but as I understand it completely, I just felt frustrated with it in the end, because, the science fiction of time travel aside, it's an impossible scenario with no logical resolution.
Anyway, without posting major spoilers I won't say anything more.
All You Zombies was a great short story to read, but I don't know how it will translate to the big screen. They've definitely expanded from the original story to make a movie out of it (the entire terrorist plot was added), and I'm hoping it's going to work. I've always had a soft spot for a well-made time travel movie, and there really hasn't been a good one in years.
FYI: There are no zombies in this movie. (Or, at least, there were none in the original story, and it doesn't look like they randomly added any to the movie.)
It's just straight-up scifi time travel.
Basically, he exists because he exists. Which when you come right down to it, is the same as the rest of us, only his existence is a lot less complicated.
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Heinlein is one of the greatest SF writers, but after the mess they made of starship troopers I am not very optimistic.
I watched this film and and followed the plot fine, but was left feeling very unsatisfied at the end of it.
Which might just be the intent, it's been decades since I read the short story but I do recall a similar feeling after reading it.
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Starship Troopers was always controversial for its martial philosophy, and All You Zombies is wacky. Why not pick one of his more straightforward books?
But then I realized something very simple - his story is at heart all of our stories, only much LESS complicated.
The heart of the question about him is 'where did he come from and why does he exist?"
And the honest truth is we don't know where ANYONE comes from or why ANYTHING exists.
Consider the case of a cyclical universe. Many physicists believe that the multi-verse constantly spews out big bangs, that spew out more big bangs, in an endless cycle.
That model of the universe is at heart identical to his existence, just on a much larger scale.
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The novel was incredible for the time (that and "Friday" it was called, the one with the intersex assassin?). Spoiler below:
In the novel in the end practically all protagonist are the same persons on different point of the time line, in a very paradoxical way (e.g. , the main protagonist his himself, herself before the sex change, and her own daughter).
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
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When the political and social commentary is written out of film adaptations, it leaves only some common characters and the story title. The rest is garbage.
Don't expect any hollywood studio to ever produce an actual Heinlein film. It's not going to happen. You'll just have to settle for filmed drivel sharing a title with a good book.
True. I would Love to see "Stranger in a Strange land", "I will fear no Evil", or "Friday" turned into a movie
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I must be in a wrong time line. In my universe, this movie came out last year, not tomorrow. Spoiler alert (from the future, apparently) it isn't very good.
If you can't follow the loops you are asleep since it paces them out, and it's consistent.
The Space Corps stuff is a good bit of background scenery to the main story and is the main thing that tells you it's in Heinlein's idea of the 1970s and a good way to tell the viewer that you don't have to worry about events in the film that never happened in the 1970s.
Very good casting, good plot, good acting (some people will hate the accent of one character but I think it fits) - maybe a bit slow in parts but that could be so that the viewer can keep track of the time loops while half asleep or drunk.
So how did I see it? I'm in the future (international date line), and it had a limited release in Australia a few months ago.
I watched it several weeks ago. (news for nerds?)
It's not bad but if you read the story it ruins it somewhat for you.
IMO, Primer sets the bar for time-travel movies, even though it's deliberately ambiguous. It seems that really, the only 'next step' is to bring out many more of the complex paradoxes that something like Primer begins to address.
For instance, what would happen (not used, but implied, in Primer) if one put an (unoccupied) running box (IIRC Primer only uses collapsed boxes) inside a running box? My guess is that it would allow for arbitrary backward time travel (with the Primer provisio that it would be a branched universe)..
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That's how it is in the movie and it's done well IMHO. Sarah Snook is awesome in her parts of it.
Nope, no zombies in the movie.
Most of the story is a distraction tactic to keep you from figuring out the first punchline (nobody remembers the second), and the rest is a bunch of jokey acronyms like "Women's Hospitality Order Refortifying & Encouraging Spacemen" (the only one not spelled out in the story).
Considering some of the scifi crap that's been pushed out there over the past few years this may be something to see.
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
Also FYI - It's a horrible movie. it's mostly dialogue between two characters you are a little curious about but really don't care for one way or another.
X
I watched the movie... and, to be honest, I had no idea what it was about before I started. But I'm into relativity and that sort of thing so I found it interesting.
I'll try not to give too much away but if you read on you might get some slight spoilers... so read at your own risk.
The gist of it is "Time cop" meets The NSA but less lame. And the premise is that the universe follows the "May worlds" theory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...
The film uses Many Worlds to try and resolve the "Boot strap paradox": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B... and/or the "Predestination Paradox": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...
Now, when you start watching it the movie kind of harms itself in that, it doesn't explain this at all... there are no convenient scientists around to explain possible scientific ways out of what we would generally consider not possible even in science fiction. I think it would have been helped by such a device. It wasn't until after I watched it, saw the ending, and then thought on it for a couple of days that I really understood what they were trying to get across.
***More spoilers, dont read if you don't want them!***
I think that the primary characters in the film were in a "Many worlds" universe and as such I think that the dance you see has been played out infinitely in many other versions of the universe. Furthermore what I think the film suggests is that these universes can interact and that the actors are not just traveling in time, they are also traversing these realities. So the events in the film may be in a closed loop, but that loop was started by the characters arriving from other "Worlds" etc... Perhaps this world existed all along, but the paradox they created collapsed "The past", etc...
The film does not explain this well at all, and I'd not take anyone that wasn't really into hardcore scifi to see this. I barely grasped it and I read the hardest hardcore scfi available every day. As far as film goes this is about as mind bending as it gets. The acting was good... but the device revolving around the main characters gender was very very clunky. I did not like that at all, and it was Rocky Horror picture show silly in its presentation. I'm not sure how else they could have pulled that off, but they should have tried a lot harder.
Friday was a genetically engineered semi-super-woman, not born the conventional way. Kinda like a pod-person if I remember correctly...
Great book though.
Time travel is the weakest of all science fiction plot devices. It is what authors use when they are completely out of ideas. Stories involving time travel always involve stupid logical contradictions or odd plot contrivances to try and resolve the contradictions...but when thought through fall apart in some way.
I personally think time travel belongs in the domain of fantasy rather than science fiction. It, like the force, is basically magic rather than science. And it makes as much sense as magic, too.
it is good and really close to the original short story without overextending and destroying the actual idea of the premise. If you like proper old SciFi, this movie is absolutely for you. But don't expect it to be extremely brain-bending if you are a bit familiar with Heinlein's work.
This movie was released in Austrailia, I think. I'd already seen it when a students bought me a burned DVD of it. I teach a Science Fiction literature class and "All You Zombies" is the story we read to introduce time travel. (I know there may better for introducing the topic to a bunch of high school students, but it works well with the other reading selections I use.)
Anyway, I watched it and it is worth watching. The story is mostly all dialogue which makes one think it would make a horrible movie without much action or scenery. Especially since the text is mostly cerebral. However, the movie adds some interesting aspects to the film. In the story, the temporal agent is charged of preventing disaster (terrorists?) and recruiting other temporal agents. One of the disasters mentioned in the story is the Fizzle War. The writers of the screenplay, Spierig brothers(?), did a really good job of taking the twisted timeline of the protagonist and incorporating the events of the Fizzle war to make the movie even more interesting, and thought provoking.
I'm sure Heinlein would approve of the movie. I'll probably go watch it in the theater.
It may be better than Primer... Now there is a good Timey-wimey film.
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I'm sorry -- I tried to give you a "funny," but it clicked "overrated" just under it. And -- stupid Slashdot -- there's no "undo." Except... by way of commenting, which, at least in theory, undoes all my mods in this story thread. Here goes...
Only it already WAS filmed as such, and made for a relatively entertaining movie from a certain point of view.
Oh and it also fives a more literal meaning to "fuck yourself" swear.
...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
I love stranger in a strange land, truly one of my favorite books, but I don't think it would make a good movie. The whole idea of aliens on mars seems played out.
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Assassination apparently. So it was in Looper and every Terminator movie anyway. I'm sure there are others...
For a Heinlein time travel story, I prefer "The Door into Summer". It's not nearly as complicated as "Zombies", but it fits together well.
Heinlein wrote a lot of stuff I wouldn't want to see in a movie, mostly because the themes are the same and outdated now, and would make about as good a movie as Atlas Shrugged. Though I suppose some inventive film maker could probably make an entertaining parody of them that might be more meaningful than the books themselves.
That said, I agree that I would like to see Stranger in a Strange Land into a movie, it was one of his better ones I think.
Another one that I think would probably make a good movie, along the same time traveling lines would be Ubik by Phillip K Dick.
In this episode
//SPOILER
"Lister begins to try and come to terms with the fact that he is his own father, and Kochanski is not only his ex-girlfriend but also his mother, before realizing he needs to get the tube back from Kochanski."
This Sig does not Exist.
(Yes, I've thought about this too much.)
PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
Saw the movie also, left unsatisfied at the end too.
But I will say this, you need to be intelligent for this movie. The movie is like a very good bottle of wine, it weaves something and you can almost grab it.
The people I was with, well they were rating it about 65 out of 100, I was near 85 out of 100. It's a thinking persons movie.
I would also advise seeing the movie "the drop" again a thinking persons movie. Very nicely crafted.
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I got it from a torrent a week ago and it was no cam. Lol I tought it came out months ago.
Good movie... Would have paid $5 for a To Own download with no OS restrictions.
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Stranger in a Strange land as a movie... I would see it, and I think it could fit into a 90's time idea or maybe push it to 2025ish as the starting point.
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Check out TimeCrimes http://www.imdb.com/title/tt04... it's pretty fun. It's not great sci-fi epic, the action stays in a small area, which makes it a lot more satisfying IMO
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Actually, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress would be great as a movie...
First, "MInority Report" wasn't really very loopy or complex, so that's a weird comparison to make. Second, yet another zombie movie? No thanks. I'm zombied out for the next decade or two.
Not me. There is nobody in Hoolywood that I would trust with any of those stories.
You are way off. It is one of the best movies of 2014/2015
It's one of those movies that can easily go either way. Lots of people will hate it and lots will love it. At least it's not the same old shit.
Considering the original story was written long before Looper (and Heinlein did a lot of time travel stories) - and the story line itself looks at things in a different way/different point of the timeline.. I'd disagree.
Heinlein was at his best with that story (zombies referring to the blithelessly ignorant, if I recall correctly). It was a flashback to his old self, when he was a progressive and before he became a righwing libertarian type, and Goldwater supporter.
Best time travel story I've read recently, The Revisionists, by Thomas Mullen (while comparisons are odious as Voltaire once opined, his writing style is a combination of Robert Silverberg, John Varley on his best day, and Graham Greene).
Excellent food or thought, this does somewhat redeem the plot in my opinion.
I'm not sure if the original story did something to draw the readers attention to this analogy with the existence of the universe, but I don't recall that happening in the movie, had the screenplay writers done so, I may have been feeling more thoughtful afterwards, rather than mostly frustrated.
Donnie Darko for example was weird and arguably paradoxical, but the way it was done left me feeling very thoughtful at the end, which I appreciate, even after a few watches.
"I know where I came from, but where did all you zombies come from?
I have read practically everything by Heinlein and "I Will Fear No Evil" is without doubt the worst load of crap he ever wrote, and he wrote a lot of crap towards the end. In fact, after "Stranger" only "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and "Friday" are worth bothering with. To be fair, he was ill when he wrote it and the publisher wouldn't wait for him to recover enough to fix it up. OTOH it may not have been salvageable. The premise has already been used in at least one movie anyway.
Seriously? Limited release? I've searched and searched, and nobody in the Salt Lake City / Provo, Utah area is showing this film, nor can I find any hint that anyone in this metro area will ever be showing the film.
Stranger in a Strange Land is the only book by Heinlein I've read; it was awesome. I'm thinking Jim Carrey would do well as Valentine. He's great at pulling off "strange" roles (whoops) and is a damn good actor. It's a fish-out-of-water story that serves as a mirror to human nature with an inevitably dark ending. I can already see Jim at the bottom of a swimming pool. Can someone please make that?
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You should really try some more of his stories. He is well worth it.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
NUH UH!
X
Their are two main reason bad movies get made from books:
1) Work is old and out of copyright (See John Carter of Mars for a prime example).
2) Poor authors sell yearly option to make his book into a movie. Most of them expire unused - which is what the author hopes for. But this encourages the option buyer to sell his 'movie idea' quick and cheap. Writers can make a good 10k a year for no work doing this. Well worth it if you are trying to make a living off of your writing.
Heinlein's books are not out of copyright nor are his heirs desperate for money. They can pick and choose the right producers.
But a wealthy/dead writer doesn't use this system. Instead they get paid a huge amount up front for a work still under copyright.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
The only problem is it's a short story. They would have to punch up the beginning a bit with background information.
Still, it has a great ending, assuming someone doesn't get all stupid and think it's a sad ending, just because the hero dies.
The Long Watch formed my opinion about what a hero really is, rather than a musician or celebrity.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Yeah, Glory Road would be my choice. Hell, Clooney would be good as Old Scar.
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No zombies in the original story, and the reference to them is pretty clever. The movie modified the story in several hideous ways, including in particular that that phrase there have no sense... and even with that they say it.
What they did was pro-government-terroristm, not antiterrorism. The main message of the movie is that it is ok to kill thousands because we know the future and someone on them may be in some years responsible of some murder.
Read the original story, not the government sponsored modified version. It makes far more sense.
In the original story, there was no limit for time travel. You could go back to the origin of time and make all past grandfathers die. In this movie they limited it, and made it an incoherent mess.
Genuinely funny!
A juvie, updated, eg Red Planet or Farmer in the Sky.
One change from the short story that I'm sure Heinlein would not have been happy with is making the protagonist the Fizzle Bomber. I'm not sure the movie ever explains why he was called the Fizzle Bomber, or what his motives were (I'd have to watch it again), but in the short story there was no Fizzle Bomber that they were trying to apprehend. There was a throwaway reference to a Fizzle War because the presumably nuclear bomb in New York hadn't gone off (plus a hundred other things that didn't go as planned due to interference by Temporal Agents). Now none of the Heinlein stories that deal with time travel ever involve multiple futures caused by changing something in the past, and therefore changing the future timeline (Like Ray Bradbury's 'A Sound of Thunder'). With that being the case, how did the Temporal Agency know that the Fizzle Bomber had detonated a bomb in 1975 that had killed 11,000 people, since he had been stopped before that happened? At least in the short story, history had recorded the event as the Fizzle War because it had never happened.
"Lost" sort of did Ubik badly.
She was more like a test-tube baby.
God is imaginary
FYI: There are no zombies in this movie. (Or, at least, there were none in the original story, and it doesn't look like they randomly added any to the movie.) It's just straight-up scifi time travel.
this was before night of the living dead, so the current style of zombie didn't exist.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
2015, anyway.
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
Starship Troopers was always controversial for its martial philosophy, and All You Zombies is wacky. Why not pick one of his more straightforward books?
puppet masters http://www.imdb.com/title/tt01...
Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
"Predistination actively embraces time travel paradoxes, taking them to the extreme"
"it's an impossible scenario with no logical resolution"
That's the point. I guess you're not used to smart movies? Not trying to offend. Just asking. It's cool. I know a couple of people smarter than me who aren't into "smart" music, movies or literature.
Nope. Nobody in the military can vote. Only military veterans. (And that's hardly a guarantee of a pro-military attitude.)
Also, nope. "Society" and "Government" are not synonyms, despite what people keep assuming, and sometimes explicitly state. Not even in a republic.
Also, people in general were rather dismissive of the military, and choosing to enlist was considered a bad move in most social circles.
There are some good essays on the subject. James Gifford wrote the best, IMO. Don't recall who else. Searching turned up a few.
Heinlein himself wrote on it, but he apparently at times recalled what he meant to write, or thought he wrote, or wished he wrote. His comments don't always jibe with the book. (Gifford has details.)
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=nature+of+service+in+heinlein%27s+starship+troopers+ (search that turned up Gifford's, and more)
http://www.nitrosyncretic.com/rah/ftp/fedrlsvc.pdf (Gifford's)
http://www.kentaurus.com/troopers.htm
http://www.heinleinsociety.org/rah/works/articles/rahrahrah.html (Spider Robinson)
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