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NASA Update Will Deal With Opportunity Flash Memory "Amnesia"

Posted by samzenpus on from the patch-it-up dept.

BarbaraHudson writes Computerworld has some details on NASA's latest fix to allow the Opportunity Mars Rover to store data while in overnight "sleep mode." Opportunity has been suffering from a glitch that's causing what NASA scientists describe as memory and data loss — or robotic "amnesia" — caused by flash memory deterioration since early December. Currently any information gathered is stored temporarily in RAM and must be sent to Earth so it's not lost when Opportunity powers down.

52 comments

  1. Flash memory sucks by Russ1642 · · Score: 5, Funny

    This is why I'll never use an SSD in my computer. They're just unreliable.

    1. Re:Flash memory sucks by Shakrai · · Score: 4, Informative

      And you think a spinning hard drive with platters and heads would be a better choice for a spacecraft that has to endure several G forces worth of acceleration at each end of the trip? Or perhaps it's a better choice to use magnetic media than solid state in high radiation environments like interplanetary space?

      --
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      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    2. Re: Flash memory sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recently had an SD card lose half it's data due to the USB not having enough juice for some accesses. Had similar issues with Arduinos too.

    3. Re:Flash memory sucks by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      While that may or may not be true, it's kind of random.

      These things were intended to last 90 days or so. It's been 11 years.

      At this point, if they're still able to apply updates to make fixes to the damned thing it means this has outlived its originally planned lifespan by a massive amount of time.

      I hardly think that's a fair critique of SSD in general. I'd say pretty much every part of that rover has performed well beyond anything it was ever expected to.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:Flash memory sucks by Redbehrend · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I run SSD's on all my computers and never had one fail yet and when one does, it takes less than 10 min to get a new one up and running. (Already tested my restore plan with my backups) In the meantime I enjoy the awesome performance and get back my 10 min and money in x1000 from the time it saves lol.
      Most of the ones that fail are the cheap clearance, no name ones, the good Samsung and Intel ones are developing a great track record.

      But on topic, the rovers are all custom and it's been 10+ years, i believe they already know about this flaw now and they have found ways around it with newer flash memory.

    5. Re:Flash memory sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I will just leave this here...

      http://techreport.com/review/26058/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-data-retention-after-600tb

      Remember that flash memory is basically from 1999. I bought a 1TB drive last year. I have in that year put about 5TB on it. They are rated for 100TB.

      I do tons of dev work and virtual machines on it.

      SSDs have really come into their own. I had a laptop from 2009 that was continously running with a 16gig SSD that was running 24/7 for 5 years. It would still be running but I wanted a better computer for what I was using it for.

      The biggest enemy of flash is not enough power and sudden power loss. Endurance is usually the least of your concerns. Most people I see yelling about them is because of controller logic failures or crap firmware. Both regular issues with regular HDs too.

    6. Re:Flash memory sucks by Russ1642 · · Score: 2

      I've had an SSD in my desktop for years now. It's fine. I think that poster might have a sense of humour.

    7. Re:Flash memory sucks by Shakrai · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'd say pretty much every part of that rover has performed well beyond anything it was ever expected to.

      All except for The Illudium Q-36 Explosive Space Modulator.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    8. Re:Flash memory sucks by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually, the amount of NAND in Opportunity is 256MB, which isn't a lot. RAM is only 128MB; NAND is routinely given a full wipe and rewrite. Given it was only meant to last for 90 days, it's probably a low-grade MLC with under 5000 erase cycles reliability.

      By contrast, a desktop SSD of 32-256GB will see a daily write cycle of under a gigabyte per day. The documents, cache, e-mails, and updates per day total very little--hundreds of megabytes, at best--for most workloads, up to and including intensive workloads such as 3D modeling and multi-layer 2D image editing, which produce massive work sets but only make minor changes to them. Large workloads include video editing, which does write multi-gigabyte files out on each large render operation (which may be frequent in some workflows).

      System drive SSDs see small workloads even when used as a swap device: swap offloads a lot of stale memory from RAM, which is either hardly ever used, never written to, or simply stale. The brk() area can have fragmented holes too small to take new allocations, and so may page out entirely unused RAM to disk; much RAM (such as GUI elements, textures, models, and audio assets) contains load-once data that's written to disk when swapped, and then only read later, such that it's left on swap and evicted from RAM without writing out again when memory gets scarce. That means 2GB of swap might be 2GB of writes since boot time, plus maybe a hundred megabytes or less per day of continuous system run.

      Finally, system drives also wear level internally. Writing to the same 1MB area over and over will spread the writes out: the controller will internally account for those blocks being erased and rewritten elsewhere, often by additive writing (writing without erasing) to avoid wearing the drive (e.g. you can have a used and erased map, in which anything erased or not used is free; you can then write to the used map and to the erased map, until you run out of free blocks and need to erase a newly used block, and thus need to mark all used-erased blocks free and mark no blocks as erased, costing one write-erase cycle even though you've written thousands of times). You'll get a full write-erase cycle every full data width write: even if you write to the same spot repeatedly, you only use one write-erase cycle writing 32GB to a 32GB drive, or 256GB to a 256GB drive.

      Accounting for all this, the drives are quite long-lasting. For a 10,000 cycle drive, you'd have to write 320,000GB to a 32GB SSD or 2,560,000GB to a 256GB SSD to wear it out. That's 876 years at 1GB per day for a 32GB drive, or over 8 years if you're writing 100GB per day. For a 256GB drive, it's 7000 year-gigabytes, or 70 years if you're writing 100GB per day. Modern MLC NAND can survive 100,000 write-erase cycles before failure, so these lifetimes may be 10 times higher; high-end SLC drives can survive 10,000,000 write-erase cycles, and can back high-traffic SANs for decades.

      They actually burn out less frequently than hard drives.

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    9. Re:Flash memory sucks by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Either way, it's a great excuse for censorship ;D.

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    10. Re:Flash memory sucks by beelsebob · · Score: 1

      What, because a space craft that was designed to work for 90 days actually lasted 10 years? Given that, shouldn't you expect SSDs to last way way longer than they claim based on this evidence?

    11. Re: Flash memory sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet another example where a spinning platter drive wouldn't have solved the problem.

      Why not bring up an example of a situation that self-driving cars can't handle that we already know human drivers also can't handle while we are at it?

    12. Re:Flash memory sucks by Kjella · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, the amount of NAND in Opportunity is 256MB, which isn't a lot. RAM is only 128MB; NAND is routinely given a full wipe and rewrite. Given it was only meant to last for 90 days, it's probably a low-grade MLC with under 5000 erase cycles reliability.

      I very much doubt that. If you're going to spend that amount of money on sending it to Mars, you don't skimp on off-the-shelf technology that costs a few hundred bucks. You may have to ditch developing that custom system that'd increase the mission budget with a million dollars, but that's different. And if you want to make it as radiation-hardened as possible I doubt they'd go with anything but SLC for maximum signal strength. I doubt it has anything to do with write cycles which they presumably have full control over at all, it's probably from operating in the harsh environment for 11 years. No wonder it's getting a bit flaky.

      --
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    13. Re:Flash memory sucks by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 5, Funny

      several G forces worth of acceleration at each end of the trip?

      That must be what caused that WHOOSH.

    14. Re: Flash memory sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your comment made me shit my Fucking pants. Now I must re-education some new ones while I wait for frequent contributor Bennet to tell me what to think.

    15. Re:Flash memory sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Voyager's magnetic tape drives would like to have a word with you

    16. Re:Flash memory sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You must be young... back when MER is being designed, there's no MLC technology, or even the SSD in the sense of today's usage. also you should look up and study how does radiation hardening works for eletronics.

    17. Re:Flash memory sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Absolutely, please provide concrete evidence counter to this. Oh, you say it doesn't exist? OK... then you must be right!

    18. Re:Flash memory sucks by Crudely_Indecent · · Score: 1

      I said the same thing until I saw firsthand the performance benefits.

      Since then, I've taken a hybrid approach. My laptop ultrabay has a normal magnetic drive, and the primary drive is a 256gb ssd. My system is installed on the SSD, all frequently written directories are mounted on the ultrabay platter drive.

      It's not as fast as it could be running entirely from SSD, but I get a big speed boost with the security of magnetic media for my files.

      I've had one failure on the SSD, which the manufacturer resolved quickly under warranty. Recovery was simple because even though the SSD failed, all of my user files were safe on the still working platter drive.

      --


      "Lame" - Galaxar
    19. Re:Flash memory sucks by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      I very much doubt that. If you're going to spend that amount of money on sending it to Mars, you don't skimp on off-the-shelf technology that costs a few hundred bucks.

      Putting a high-grade SLC 10,000,000 write cycle NAND bank into a rover intended to run for 90 days and do 1-2 writes per day would be extreme gold plating.

      Quality is the degree to which a deliverable satisfies requirements. NASA required something that would reliably last for 90 days under their workload; the highest-quality device would be the least-expensive device which satisfies this (along with the constraints of power usage, weight, and so on). MLC with 200 write-erase cycles would barely satisfy this; but you won't find MLC with durability under 5,000 cycle. The correct selection, the one which represents an optimal decision, would be the low-end MLC with 5,000 write-erase cycles.

      Radiation hardening of the NAND flash may be irrelevant due to packaging or Martian terrestrial radiation: the NAND may be inside a shielded casing, or it may just not be subject to as much background radiation on Mars as in space.

      Harsh Martian environment likely has zero impact on the NAND: it's in a sealed case, and isn't being subjected to dust storms, rain, snow, flash flooding, insect infestation, and the like.

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    20. Re:Flash memory sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I very much doubt that. If you're going to spend that amount of money on sending it to Mars, you don't skimp on off-the-shelf technology that costs a few hundred bucks.

      It's pretty obvious you haven't worked in the US space industry... you still have illusions!

      The unique combination of utter boneheadedness and utter brilliance that is called NASA should never be assumed to act intelligently, or even comprehensively, in any individual decision. Sometimes they do stuff because the President's nephew's dog has a birthday, or for equally insane non-scientific reasons.

      (My dad worked on every program from Dyna-Soar to Shuttle, my brother-in-law's still in the trade, and I worked in space science for a couple of years myself.)

    21. Re:Flash memory sucks by toddestan · · Score: 1

      I think it's utterly remarkable that the Opportunity has lasted long enough that something like the flash memory is failing due to old age. I would guess that no one expected that Opportunity would ever run into the write cycle limit when they decided to put flash memory onboard.

    22. Re:Flash memory sucks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I'll never use an SSD in my computer on Mars. They're just unreliable on Mars.

      FTFY

  2. Don't worry, NASA is really good at this by NotDrWho · · Score: 0

    Keeping old relics and forgotten dreams alive is what they do best.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    1. Re:Don't worry, NASA is really good at this by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 2

      How many rovers do YOU (or **anyone** else for that matter) have on Mars?

    2. Re:Don't worry, NASA is really good at this by bobbied · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Keeping old relics and forgotten dreams alive is what they do best.

      And here I thought it was being able to successfully launch people in billion dollar vehicles built by lowest bidders, loaded with millions of pounds of high explosives without killing anybody (usually)

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    3. Re:Don't worry, NASA is really good at this by ArcadeMan · · Score: 4, Funny

      (puts Mars bar on the floor)
      "Come here boy!"
      (rover sits on Mars)

      (clicks on big Staples button) That was easy

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    4. Re:Don't worry, NASA is really good at this by Contract+Gypsy · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I can't remember how many I have up there... after all this time.

      --
      Life is in a state of dynamic equilibrium, it both blows and sucks
    5. Re:Don't worry, NASA is really good at this by NoNonAlphaCharsHere · · Score: 4, Funny

      Heh. I took the train into Chicago for many years. There's a Mars plant next to the line, with a passenger stop. Every morning the robot-voice would announce "The next stop will be ... Mars".

    6. Re:Don't worry, NASA is really good at this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And here I thought it was being able to successfully launch people in billion dollar vehicles built by lowest bidders, loaded with millions of pounds of high explosives without killing anybody (usually)

      No, that's Russia.

    7. Re:Don't worry, NASA is really good at this by PSXer · · Score: 1

      I saw Mars in my telescope once. That's prettymuch the same level of difficulty as landing a rover on there.

  3. No details by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    FTFY
    Computerworld has no details on NASA's latest fix..

  4. and I thought BF4 map load times were bad... by Charcharodon · · Score: 1

    Wow talk about lag, sending the data all the way back to earth. Ouch. Maybe they should just make a big orbital server to put around Mars so the surface probes can upload to it.

  5. Re:and I thought BF4 map load times were bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Do you honestly think the rovers are actually capable of communicating with Earth directly, or are you just joking around? Got news for you if its not a joke...

  6. Re:and I thought BF4 map load times were bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fucking light speed, man...typical!

  7. 13 years ago when 32MB was a big music player by peter303 · · Score: 1

    Also noone has flash or is using it from that long ago. Current chips are a thosand times larger.

    1. Re: 13 years ago when 32MB was a big music player by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pretty sure my backup is done on CF cards from the 90's :)
      128MB is plenty when the data is under 90MB
      Someone finding one is less likely to look at it, they were free when I scrapped some old medical devices, and they are just the right size to fit in my coin pocket yet big enough to notice if I drop it :)

      rofl
      capcha: obsolete

  8. FRAM vs NAND by volvox_voxel · · Score: 4, Informative

    I've never been a big fan of flash memory, given that it has a finite number of write cycles before a memory bit fails (varying between 1 and 100million write cycles). The probability may be low that an individual bit may need to flip so many times in it's lifetime, but it's still an issue.. A lot of care must be taken by the firmware engineer to handle this. There are a lot of job postings for firmware engineers that understand flash..

    I'm a huge fan of FRAM. It has a lifecycle limit that is quoted at being 10 trillion write cycles (some mention at it being infinite). The memory density is lower, but is a lot more reliable. It's biggest issue is that the density is lower. For a spacecraft, I'd much rather have a board of these 2Mbit FRAMS then a large flash chip. They use these things in smart meters, etc. In embedded systems, you have to be really careful not to write to the flash too often out of risk of damaging the flash. Most fast SD cards have their own dedicated microcontroller (ARM9, etc) to do what they can to extend the life of the flash..

    A datasheet of an FRAM device: http://www.fujitsu.com/downloa...

    One question I have is how FRAM compares to NAND-flash in a harsh radiation environment, and what are the radiation differences on mars vs the earth. How many vendors offer rad-hard processes for FRAM, and how do they perform?

    Here is one link I could find on FRAM, but the report from 2011 is not clear:

    http://cdn.intechopen.com/pdfs...

    1. Re:FRAM vs NAND by Solandri · · Score: 2

      I've never been a big fan of flash memory, given that it has a finite number of write cycles before a memory bit fails (varying between 1 and 100million write cycles).

      I'm a huge fan of FRAM. It has a lifecycle limit that is quoted at being 10 trillion write cycles (some mention at it being infinite). The memory density is lower, but is a lot more reliable. It's biggest issue is that the density is lower.

      No, the biggest issue is likely cost. A quick Google search says a 4 megabit (0.5 MB) FRAM module costs about $50. That's $100,000 per GB. You can load your spacecraft with a couple dozen extra reserve NAND memory banks at 1/1000th the price. As one bank wears out, bring the next bank online, and it'll last far past the life expectancy of other components on the spacecraft.

      In embedded systems, you have to be really careful not to write to the flash too often out of risk of damaging the flash.

      That's only an issue if you have very small amounts of flash memory. i.e. You're making a conscious decision to limit the amount of storage, at the cost of the memory wearing out quicker. The more storage you put in, the longer it takes to wear out.

      I can see it being an issue in certain extreme applications. e.g. extremely low power embedded systems where it may have to last 10 years on a single battery, so you don't want something like a SSD wear leveling controller or an overabundance of NAND sucking up extra power. Or high frequency database storage, where having a large amount of storage can actually slow things down, but you still need good write endurance. But for most applications, it's cheaper just to throw more NAND at the problem.

    2. Re:FRAM vs NAND by Solandri · · Score: 2

      Forgot the tl;dr: Basically this is a problem which will disappear on its own. Opportunity has only 256 MB of flash memory (which was quite a lot when it was launched in 2003 - I paid $100 for a 512 MB flash card in 2004). So each individual NAND cell is being used a lot. As you put in larger amounts of flash memory, each cell gets used less frequency, and the problem goes away on its own.

    3. Re:FRAM vs NAND by volvox_voxel · · Score: 1

      Using ww.findchips.com (a great site to check for parts and availability across multiple distrubuters) , in small quantities, the 2Mbit part is ~$5. But still, your argument is valid. For space born applications where reliability is everything, I'd still like to know about it's Rad-hard status.. These parts come in 8 pin packages, and could also likely scale if they wanted to. Who's to say that in the future that we wouldn't see orders of magnitude larger parts.

      I personally am excited to see the memristor technology that can potentially eliminate both the ram and the hard disk, with 90ns access times and 1/100th the power consumption of flash. Perhaps this will blow everything else out of the water.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

      We'll see if HP labs can pull it off.

    4. Re:FRAM vs NAND by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      No, the biggest issue is likely cost. A quick Google search says a 4 megabit (0.5 MB) FRAM module costs about $50. That's $100,000 per GB. You can load your spacecraft with a couple dozen extra reserve NAND memory banks at 1/1000th the price.

      But they only put 256MB of storage onboard, so it's only 25,000. It costs what, $7k/lb to orbit, best case? So yeah, it's cheaper to add flash, but the break-even point given reliability probably comes sooner than you think.

      Shouldn't MRAM be better at this sort of thing than flash, too? It's cheaper than FRAM, anyway

      --
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    5. Re:FRAM vs NAND by necro81 · · Score: 1

      I'm a huge fan of FRAM

      That may be, but it wasn't exactly an option (in the sense of it being readily available and thoroughly tested for spaceflight) when the rovers were being designed 15 years ago. Is it even an option today?

    6. Re:FRAM vs NAND by necro81 · · Score: 2

      I did a bit of reading on the subject from TI, which has FRAM integrated into some of its MSP430 microcontrollers. If anything, the technology seems to be well-suited to the space environment, because bit storage is accomplished via a crystal structure change (polarization), rather than through charge storage.

    7. Re:FRAM vs NAND by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      But the whole point of the project was to use cheaper, more off-the-shelf parts and components. Given that it's now ten years past it's 'guaranteed' lifespan, I don't think they did anything wrong.

      Did FRAM even exist ten years ago?

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  9. cheap by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    They shouldn't have bought that discount flash from China after all I guess.

  10. and I thought BF4 map load times were bad... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hmm, maybe there *is* a relay orbiter... Like Mars Reconaissance Orbiter or Odyssey or Mars Explorer. MRO has the best relay store and forward.. MAVEN also has it, but I don't think they're using it for relay yet.

    UHF to orbit, X-band back to Earth.

    Commands to the rover, though, are X-band direct from earth.

  11. SSD endurance testing by Steve+Hamlin · · Score: 1

    http://techreport.com/review/24841/introducing-the-ssd-endurance-experiment/5

    These guys ran continuous high-IO tests on commercial SSDs for over a year - the results are impressive. Most drives could write hundreds of terabytes before significant issues, with some reasonable COTS drives successfully writing/reading petabytes.

    I'd certainly trust SSD longevity over spinning platters, these days. Sure, $/GB means archival storage of large data sets goes to hard drives or tape, but absent constant, bus-limited IO (which you'd buffer to battery-backed DRAM solutions, anyway), SSD drives seem to be more suitable than spinning rust for all common workloads.

    1. Re:SSD endurance testing by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      OCZ guarantees over 100TB of write cycles before failure on some of their basic performance drives. Their cheap drives guarantee about 40TB (20GB/day for 5 years), and the model that costs $10 more for 120GB guarantees 50GB/day for 5 years.

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