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Carnivorous Pitcher Plant "Out-Thinks" Insects

schwit1 writes A carnivorous pitcher plant is changing its behavior in response to natural weather fluctuations, allowing it to give up its prey in order to capture more. The pitcher plant, which has liquid-filled leaves shaped like funnels, has the ability to allow some of its prey, such as ants, to escape by "switching off" its trap." The first ant reports back to the other ants that it found a large batch of sweet nectar, causing a large contingent of ants to descend upon it. If the trap captures the first ant, it won't be able to capture many more ants later.

72 of 111 comments (clear)

  1. Pitcher of sweet nectar? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 4, Funny

    The plant kingdom's equivalent of a honey pot!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  2. So that's how Voyager escaped by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 2

    Knowing that the Federation would would send a veritable Armada of Science vessels to feast upon

    1. Re:So that's how Voyager escaped by NotInHere · · Score: 1

      And they wouldn't have doctor programs that can't sing. I mean they will have doctor programs that can't sing, but none that think they can in fact they don't.

  3. smarter than many people I know by raymorris · · Score: 5, Interesting

    >. If the trap captures the first ant, it won't be able to capture many more ants later.

    I wish all people were as smart as this plant.
    Give up some free time now to do your school work, get paid $800,000 more later.
    Give up the opportunity to cuss your boss out today, end up with a raise next month, after discussing the issue calmly and professionally.
    Give up the girl offering easy sex now, have a self-respecting partner for the rest of your life.
    Give up the Starbuck's and iPhone 6 today, retire 10 years earlier.

    SO much of wisdom, and of success, comes down to this one thing, to delayed gratification.

    1. Re:smarter than many people I know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Give up the Starbuck's and iPhone 6 today, retire 10 years earlier.
      Wow, I heard Apple products were overpriced, but that's just ridiculous.

    2. Re:smarter than many people I know by Kokuyo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You are not wrong, but this can be taken to extremes also. I mean, you probably could retire at 40 if you worked two jobs and lived in a one room apartment where you went only to sleep.

      There is a point where working for that early retirement takes so much out of you, that you'll be broken by the time you manage it. Lead management is an important factor in your life: Sure, it makes sense to procrastinate as little as possible and quit the habits that give you little but cost much, however you cannot just do without all amenities of life. You don't know whether you will survive to your retirement goal. If you don't, you'll have lived only for work and a dream you didn't get to enjoy. At all.

    3. Re:smarter than many people I know by Kokuyo · · Score: 1

      *Load management

    4. Re:smarter than many people I know by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Give up the girl offering easy sex now, have a self-respecting partner for the rest of your life.

      Why are these exclusive? You can have both.

      Also, I don't like the moralizing tone of your post, it smacks of dog whistle racism.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    5. Re:smarter than many people I know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Apart from the dog-whistle racism issue raised by a fellow poster, there are a few more problems in your post:

      Regarding free time, school work, gadgets: I was given the exact same advice by my parents and I severely regret it. I feel I lost my youth. What's the point of being able to possibly retire earlier if the requirement is that you can never be really happy for first thirty years or so, and your prioritisation of study and work has left you with such a small social circle that early retirement would be pointless? My advice to my children would be to aim for sevens rather than tens and live a little. Besides, I think that the effects that has on your personality might be even better for your career than high grades.

      And how in heaven's name are you supposed to get that self-respecting life partner if you reject her first?

      Delaying gratification is (mostly) bullshit. Where I live, life expectancy is only about 80 years. Your ability to achieve happiness falls over time; in addition, achieving happiness now often improves your ability or opportunity to be happier later. The only thing delaying gratification achieves is that you get less years and less opportunity to be happy.

      There are a few traps of course, but they're pretty obvious. Don't smoke, don't run big debts, go easy on the alcohol, and so on, but these tend to be pretty obvious.

    6. Re:smarter than many people I know by kesuki · · Score: 1

      "I wish all people were as smart as this plant."

      anyone ever tell you be careful what you wish for

      "Give up some free time now to do your school work, get paid $800,000 more later."

      tried that, had awesome grades then no job of course i was unwilling to take up debt to go to school.

      "Give up the opportunity to cuss your boss out today, end up with a raise next month, after discussing the issue calmly and professionally."

      that is a strawman cussing the boss out will get you fired.

      "Give up the girl offering easy sex now, have a self-respecting partner for the rest of your life."

      other people covered this so i won't

      "Give up the Starbuck's and iPhone 6 today, retire 10 years earlier."

      ten years earlier huh? for one thing the smartphone is part of modern culture how can a person who gets their data on dead trees compare to someone who has always on access to all the information in the world? the starbucks premium coffee is still valid, as caffeine is an allergen that shocks the brain into thinking it is under attack and begins circulating blood faster and causes an immune response until you get too tired from it and crash. the brain will swell slightly from going off caffeine and cause a mild headache as the immune response vs the toxicity making the brain (slightly) numb to pain wears off.

      http://hippocratesinst.org/Vegan-Lifestyle/mental-illness-or-caffeine-allergy

    7. Re:smarter than many people I know by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 1

      And a boring life lived with every opportunity for fun, pleasure and adventure "given up" for safety while so many times, having never gotten anything out of it but regret for passing up something you actually wanted.

    8. Re:smarter than many people I know by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      You can, but if your busy looking for the one it makes it a lot less likely to find the other.

    9. Re:smarter than many people I know by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      That's certainly an esoteric idea about how caffeine works... It is just an adenosine antagonist. Wikipedia has a good write up.

    10. Re:smarter than many people I know by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'm spending about $5,000 on a vacation now. Because my kids are only kids for a very short period of time.

      My father gave up a lot to ensure that he had a solid plan for retirement. 15 years in the company raided the pension and now he is still working with no plans for retirement.

      Delayed gratification is important, but there is a reason that the saying "Take time to stop and smell the roses" exists, and it's only partially because your sense of smell degrades as you age.

    11. Re:smarter than many people I know by raymorris · · Score: 2

      I'll address this one as an example since it can be shown objectively, with just a little arithmetic:

      >> "Give up the Starbuck's and iPhone 6 today, retire 10 years earlier."

      > ten years earlier huh? for one thing the smartphone is part of modern culture how can a person who gets their data on dead trees compare to someone who has always on access to all the information in the world?

      I have an LG Volt with 1.2 Ghz quad-core processor. It's just as productive as the new iphone. I paid $120. The guy down the hall paid $620 for a new iphone. So I paid $500 less. Suppose we make decisions like that once every three months. I put the $500 in an index mutual fund, he puts it into shiny toys. We do that from age 25 to age 50. At 50, I'll have $183,909 in my fund, he'll have some broken antique phones. At 60, I'll have $468,368 more than him, just from buying the newest shiny electronics or "settling for" last year's smartphone model.

      Combine that with me choosing a cash car instead of the lease he choose and I end up over a million dollars ahead. Once I have $2 million, then I can do and buy pretty much whatever I want, and have no stress about my financial situation.

    12. Re:smarter than many people I know by disposable60 · · Score: 2

      Easy, sloppy, careless sex, while admittedly fun, can have some long-term disadvantages, you know.

      A baby is a commitment pushing past 2 decades - longer if special needs - with a babymama who may not be a suitable parent (though not legally unfit). Contraceptives fail and are also subject to sabotage - and there are women whose entire career plan consists of having at least one child by at least one man.

      A virus is forever - so far - and tends to limit one's future prospect pool to the easy, sloppy and careless.

      --
      You're looking for quotes? See my journal.
    13. Re:smarter than many people I know by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Well, if you think about it, if you go and buy a Starbucks every day and an iphone every time they come out, you are spending about $2,500 a year. If you saved that up until retirement, at 1% interest, that is about $140,000. With 3% inflation, that works out to about $37,000 in today's dollars. So I don't think you would be able to retire earlier on it, unless you had managed to pay off your house already and were only planning to live a year.
      But you might be able to retire 1 year earlier if you laid off the starbucks and the new iphones. It is all a question of whether 45 years of abstaining is worth one year of not having to work to you.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    14. Re:smarter than many people I know by operagost · · Score: 1

      This logic has escaped my in-laws, who have not had ONE child-- not ONE-- while in a marriage or even anything resembling a stable relationship. I really hope the idea of having a trusting, stable relationship and the ability to support one's own family is not a quaint one.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    15. Re:smarter than many people I know by tompaulco · · Score: 2

      This.
      I'm set pretty good for retirement. However, I am working my butt off. I am now 44 years old. I am already starting to realize that some of the things I enjoy doing: hiking, skiing for example, are beginning to be a challenge for me even now. I don't know if I will be capable of enjoying them at all in 25 years or so when I retire. However, I don't have the time to do them now. I think we have this whole work thing backwards. We should get out there and enjoy life while we are young, and then sit our old, tired butts in front of a computer screen at some desk when we no longer have the energy to enjoy life. Unfortunately, getting the money up front is a bit of a challenge. Some people have figured out how to come out of the right vagina, but I was not one of the clever ones.

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    16. Re:smarter than many people I know by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      The looney left thinks that planning ahead is racism. People who plan ahead typically do better in life, but the idea is to claim that anybody who "does better" is in that position due to societal structures that benefit them.

      The Seattle Public Schools issued a statement that talked about racism and one of the elements was "future time orientation", another way of saying "planning ahead".

      http://www.seattlepi.com/local...

      According to the district's official Web site, "having a future time orientation" (academese for having long-term goals) is among the "aspects of society that overtly and covertly attribute value and normality to white people and Whiteness, and devalue, stereotype and label people of color."

      The school district took the site down a few days later after widespread criticism, but you can see it here:

      https://www.fourmilab.ch/fourm...

      Cultural Racism:
      Those aspects of society that overtly and covertly attribute value and normality to white people and Whiteness, and devalue, stereotype, and label people of color as “other”, different, less than, or render them invisible. Examples of these norms include defining white skin tones as nude or flesh colored, having a future time orientation, emphasizing individualism as opposed to a more collective ideology, defining one form of English as standard, and identifying only Whites as great writers or composers.

      Ironically the anybody who would come up with this stuff, particularly planning ahead and individualism, is acting in a racist manner. It's pathetic.

    17. Re:smarter than many people I know by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      Give up some free time now to do your school work, get paid $800,000 more later.

      wtf? i did school work. where's my $800,000!?

    18. Re:smarter than many people I know by nblender · · Score: 1

      I have friends who buy a new car every 3 years. I drive my cars into the ground... Well, not quite. As soon as I feel it can no longer be relied upon to get me where I'm going, then I replace it, with something else pre-owned.

      I place no stock in what my car says about my 'image' and I save money in fuel because my co-workers would rather take their cars than ride in mine.

    19. Re:smarter than many people I know by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      the give up starbucks (or your favorite coffee place) arguments are always a bit too simple. Taken at face value, it's an expensive cup of coffee, but what is it really? for many people it's a social event. You see the same people each day, you say hi. sometimes you meet friends and former coworkers who got a job at the agency around the corner. someone remembers your name and favorite drink. It's fun. it's hard to say that fun is or is not overpriced. If you can afford it, what is wrong with having a bit fun every day?

      lucky for me, i ended up in a job where i can go make a fancy esspresso drink in the break room and hang out with people. i don't have to go EVERY day, but still, i like to go damnit. i see different people at the coffee house.

      i also end up going to bars. i'm pretty sure that ads up to more than coffee each year.

    20. Re:smarter than many people I know by myrdos2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Delayed gratification is not about increasing the amount of work you do, it's about being able to plan ahead. I saved up my dollars from a summer job working on my Dad's farm, and bought a computer for $1400 at the end of it. My brother spent his money as soon as he got it, but when I got a computer he wanted one too. So he got some kind of 'lease to own' deal, which he was still paying back years later, long after that thing was an obsolete piece of shit. Ended up costing him almost three grand.

      Who ended up working more? This is not a trick question.

      The only thing delaying gratification achieves is that you get less years and less opportunity to be happy.

      The opposite is true. The ability to save money, to be financially responsible, and to study for an education all reduce the amount of work you need to do over your lifetime. And it will tend to be more enjoyable, satisfying work.

    21. Re:smarter than many people I know by raymorris · · Score: 1

      The census bureau reports that:

      over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million
      http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/...

      And that includes people who got degrees in African-American Art History! People who chose degrees with a thought toward doing productive work earn even more.

      If you apply the SAME type of thinking to choosing which company to work for, choosing the job with the best prospects for advancement rather than the best starting salary, you do even better.

    22. Re:smarter than many people I know by cusco · · Score: 1

      My wife wants to retire later with more money, I want to retire earlier with more health. She said, "With more money we'll be able to travel more." I said, "I'll be damned if I'm going to visit the Great Pyramid using a walker." The debate continues.

      --
      "Think about how stupid the average person is. Now, realise that half of them are dumber than that." - George Carlin
    23. Re:smarter than many people I know by maharvey · · Score: 1

      Statistically, your wife will live longer and be healthier in old age than you will

    24. Re:smarter than many people I know by Beeftopia · · Score: 1

      This is more like "conflation" rather than "dog-whistle" racism. You get people agreeing with your speech and then throw in something discordant. They want to agree with the majority of your statement, and it order to do so, it seems like they're agreeing with the discordant note as well.

    25. Re:smarter than many people I know by MassHallucination · · Score: 1

      Give up the girl offering easy sex now, have a self-respecting partner for the rest of your life.

      Why are these exclusive? You can have both.

      Also, I don't like the moralizing tone of your post, it smacks of dog whistle racism.

      "Dog wistle racism"? Well ignoring the inapplicable metaphor, I didn't read any morals into this comment. Yes you could have it both ways, but in matters of sex we tend to just repeat past behavior, statistcally speaking of course. Perhaps you would be more comfortable with the Marshmallow Experiment: You could eat this one marshmallow now, or wait 20 years for a successful career and relationship instead.

    26. Re:smarter than many people I know by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 1

      >. If the trap captures the first ant, it won't be able to capture many more ants later.

      I wish all people were as smart as this plant.

      I hope more people would be so smart as not to listen to life tips by people who accredit "smarts" to a plant. That's just bananas.

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    27. Re:smarter than many people I know by Champaklal · · Score: 1

      You made me wiser today! Thanks! If I had been mod today, I'd have this answer modded up!

  4. windows classic pinball by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    remember the paddles at the top of the chutes? First time you hit them, they're in place and divert the ball back to the launch flippers, then they disappear so the next time the ball comes down it disappears down the chute.

    Same thing.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  5. ps - I dumb, impatient things often by raymorris · · Score: 1

    It occurred to me my post could come across as arrogant. I screw that up plenty. I make a ton of mistakes. MOST of my dumbest mistakes involve trying to get what I want right now, rather than what will make me happy in the long term . All of the examples I listed are things I've screwed up and had to fix.

    1. Re:ps - I dumb, impatient things often by TrollstonButterbeans · · Score: 2

      Add to you list: Give up explaining your first post, trust in others to correctly determine your point knowing the noisier, less bright ones respond the most.

      --
      Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
    2. Re:ps - I dumb, impatient things often by lisaparratt · · Score: 2

      What if the mistake you make is dying tomorrow, having put off a pleasurable life until the far flung future?

    3. Re:ps - I dumb, impatient things often by operagost · · Score: 1

      Logic says we're more likely to be alive tomorrow than dead.

      If some of your thoughtful choices include not participating in needlessly dangerous activities or unhealthy behavior, the odds move even more in your favor.

      --

      Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
    4. Re:ps - I dumb, impatient things often by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      actually, logic says the opposite: you're more likely not to wake up in the morning with each day that passes. Each day you live is one day closer to your demise. The odds of you dying in your sleep increase every. single. night.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  6. Why the lame title? by Dahamma · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Out-thinks"? Basically it evolved not to produce a protein for part of the day because that resulted in better survival rates from more nutrients. Cool, but why call it thinking, even with quotes when we are big boys and girls and can understand evolutionary processes. Does Slashdot really have to resort to Buzzfeed fringy-worthy headlines these days?

    1. Re:Why the lame title? by DiamondGeezer · · Score: 2

      This is how evolution by natural selection actually works. Yes 'out-thinking' is too strong a word.

      --
      Tubby or not tubby. Fat is the question
    2. Re:Why the lame title? by Xest · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because it's all part of the fundamental question of what thinking really is.

      You might equally argue that when someone "thinks" they're hungry it's actually just a natural chemical change in the brain to a change in chemicals in the body so they're not actually thinking at all.

      It's all just chemistry at the end of the day, when does chemistry change from just chemistry to thinking? The only difference is complexity of the system and where does level of complexity cross the line from being simple chemical reaction to being "thought"?

      There's actually a deeper point to the use of the word thinking here, and it's something professional biologists through to neuroscientists through to AI researchers will sometimes equally use given the unsolved nature of the question of when we deem something to be thought as opposed to merely chemical reaction.

    3. Re:Why the lame title? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Assigning motives, thinking abilities to inanimate objects, even when it is patently obvious that it can't think, is useful. Daniel Dennett calls is "design stance". In coding parlance, it is hiding all the intricate details of a complex functions and explaining it what it is designed to do. "The stream buffer expects the input strings to be null terminated", "This excel macro wants the data to be in comma separated fields format". I hear people shouting, "Do not anthropomorphize programs. They hate it" ;-)

      Saying pitcher plant allows a few ants to escape communicates the idea, even when everyone knows there is no brain, no thinking, and it actually means, "over the last few thousand generations the plants that did not produce the sticky protein for parts of the day had better survival rates".

      But you need to draw an even more important lesson from this, very very applicable today. Without any thinking, purely by chance, some people will find enormous success. So we need to discard the current political thinking based on, "ALL the rich people got rich by being smart and working hard. ALL the poor people are poor because they are dumb and lazy".

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    4. Re:Why the lame title? by doug141 · · Score: 1

      Exactly. "Submarine 'out-swims' whale" would be a perfectly clear headline, too. Only on slashdot would a complaint about the word "swim" get +5.

    5. Re:Why the lame title? by quantaman · · Score: 1

      Though the really fascinating thing is that this is taking advantage of the ant's scouting behaviour, which not only an advanced cognitive process "I found a good food source and will return to it later" but is an advanced social process "hey friends, come check out this food source I found!"

      There's obviously no actual thought involved but it's a pretty impressive feat of tricking the ants to draw them into a trap.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    6. Re:Why the lame title? by sudon't · · Score: 1

      So we need to discard the current political thinking based on, "ALL the rich people got rich by being smart and working hard. ALL the poor people are poor because they are dumb and lazy".

      Right. A lot of smart, hard-working people do not get rich. And, about one-third of wealthy people get rich by inheritance. Another thing to consider is that there is simply not enough room at the top for everybody. The rich cannot become rich without the poor. They are the ones who both make and buy the widgets. This is also the simple reason why so-called trickle-down economics haven't worked. Supply is useless without demand.

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    7. Re:Why the lame title? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1
      The one third due to inheritance is true in the fortune 400, probably extends to the top 1000. But in the top 0.5% more than 80% are due to inheritance. Top 0.5% by net worth starts at 15 million dollars. No doctor, lawyer, engineer, accountant, salesman accumulates that much without extraordinary luck. If a person starts without inheritance, and gets into the top 1% by income of his peer age group, stays there through the entire earning career, will barely make enough to be in the top 1% by wealth. (5 million dollars). (Wealth not including non-rented home(s), cars, jewelry etc)

      Without inheritance only very very few lucky people make it to the top 0.5%, by luck. Many who worked as hard and were as smart would not make it to top 0.5%.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    8. Re:Why the lame title? by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Bad analogy. Logical fallacy -5. Next time, try to think, don't try to swim.

    9. Re:Why the lame title? by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      That's moronic. "Thinking", like all *words created by humans*, has a reasonably clear definition in many contexts that doesn't include electrons or evolutionary processes.

    10. Re:Why the lame title? by Dahamma · · Score: 1

      Wow, seriously?

      You can define words to whatever you want them to be. PEOPLE MADE THEM ALL UP. DUH.

      If you want to define a "pizza" as a giant cosmic object that can not be comprehended by humans, go ahead, but the rest of us will continue to think of it as a tasty flatbread covered with tomato sauce and cheese.

      Though for you "thinking" seems to be more accurately defined as "mental masturbation"...

  7. I've scrubbed toilets, been CEO. by raymorris · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've worked in a lot of fields. The examples listed were all things I've done both ways - making the short-term, impatient decision the first time, than when I had another chance I tried the long term option. I've scrubbed toilets, I've flipped burgers, I've been a programmer at the bottom of the totem pole, I've been the CEO of several different companies. I've been hired, I've been fired, and for 20 years I've been hiring and occasionally firing other people.

    Most of my big mistakes through all of it were when I was thinking about what I want now, rather than the results I want five years bfrom nowm

  8. Oh, come now . . . by mmell · · Score: 1

    I, for one, welcome our new carnivorous pitcher plant overlords.

  9. Don't underestimate drift. by mmell · · Score: 2

    It may not have been a radical mutation or even a series of minor ones, but rather the long-term weeding out of less successful genetic combinations.

    1. Re:Don't underestimate drift. by Xest · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Yes exactly. Chemical production in plants doing things based on time of day such as opening flowers or generating nectar is typically based on levels of light of particular wavelengths that will change throughout the day as the sun rises and sets.

      So the mechanism here is almost certainly simply that some members of this species weren't producing nectar until they got more light in a particular wavelength (probably red) than others. Those plants just happened to get more nutrients as a result and simply grew stronger, bloomed better and spread their seed more successfully as a result of that increased nutrient intake from the ants making this the increasingly dominant trait in the population.

      The mutation will likely therefore have been one that simply requires an increased (or decreased) amount of light of a certain wavelength required to trigger nectar production delaying the time at which production typically began to a point in the day where the required wavelength was more (or less) prevalent and nothing more than that. As you suggest, it's likely this wasn't a single mutation, but simply the genetic drift of the population as random variation led those that produced nectar ever later to be more successful than those that produced earlier.

    2. Re:Don't underestimate drift. by Flavianoep · · Score: 1

      It may not have been a radical mutation or even a series of minor ones, but rather the long-term weeding out of less successful genetic combinations.

      And where such genetic combinations would have come from without mutations? Enlighten me.

      --
      Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
  10. Respect! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    The plant is obviously outperforming our politicians in terms of foresight.

  11. making those decisions all the time by raymorris · · Score: 1

    I have an LG Volt with 1.2 Ghz quad-core processor. It's just as productive as the new iphone. I paid $120. The guy down the hall paid $620 for a new iphone. So I paid $500 less. Suppose we make decisions like that once every three months. I put the $500 in an index mutual fund, he puts it into shiny toys. We do that from age 25 to age 50. At 50, I'll* have $183,909 in my fund, he'll have some broken antique phones. At 60, I'll have $468,368 more than him, just from buying the newest shiny electronics or "settling for" last year's smartphone model.

    Combine that with me choosing a cash car instead of the lease he choose and I end up over a million dollars ahead. Once I have $2 million, then I can do and buy pretty much whatever I want, and have no stress about my financial situation.

    * "I" am actually a weak example. Another guy across the hall is doing much better than me - he's on track to retire at age 48. By spending as much as the median income was in 1950s (inflation adjusted), he only has to spend 16 years of his life working.

    1. Re:making those decisions all the time by shadowrat · · Score: 1

      i dunno man... apples seem like a pretty good investment :)

      http://9to5mac.com/2010/11/11/...

  12. We'd build robots to do that or redesign tasks... by Paul+Fernhout · · Score: 1

    AC wrote: "If all people were that smart and all of them qualified for $800.000 jobs who would clean out the sewers and clean the floors?"

    See also, by Bob Black: http://www.whywork.org/rethink...

    Or "The Skills of Xanadu" by Theodore Sturgeon.

    --
    A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
  13. On credit, or because you saved it and can afford by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > I'm spending about $5,000 on a vacation now. Because my kids are only kids for a very short period of time.

    Did you save up $5,000, so you are now able to do that without worrying about?
    Or are you putting it on credit, potentially creating a problem for yourself later?

    If the former, that's awesome, and an example of the kind of thing I aspire to.

  14. Re:On credit, or because you saved it and can affo by cellocgw · · Score: 1

    > I'm spending about $5,000 on a vacation now. Because my kids are only kids for a very short period of time.

    Did you save up $5,000, so you are now able to do that without worrying about?

    The fallacy here is that a $5k vacation is five times better than a $1k vacation -- or that it's even close to five separate $1k vacations. One of the best family vacas I ever had as a kid involved staying at cheapo motels along the midAtlantic coast, getting up early to check out the local birding scene, dining at local indie establishments, etc. No Plastic Kingdom or Floating FoodOrgy can compare.

    --
    https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
  15. This will blow your mind. $733,637 coffee by raymorris · · Score: 2

    > Cite, please. Even a $5 cup of coffee a day and a $600 iWhatever per year only add up to ~$2000 per year. Over 40 years, that's $80,000. Can YOU live on $8,000 a year??

    Check this out. This is going to blow your mind, and if you're smart, change your life. It comes out to not $80,000, but $733,637.22! Here's the thing:

    The first year, you sock away $2,000 in your low-risk index mutual fund. At the end of the year, the money has earned you $180, so at the end of the first year you have $2,180 from that first year. You add $2,000 more from not buying coffee, which is $4,180. Over the next year, that earns $376 of dividends or interest, for $4556 total. Your money expands exponentially!

    Even if you just put away $2,000 ONCE, then never add to it, in 40 years that $2,000 turns into $62,819.10. This is how most millionaires became millionaires - by putting away about $200-$500 per month.

    Here's a calculator that makes it easy to compute the results of saving different amounts for different periods of time:
    http://www.daveramsey.com/arti...

    Since you mentioned a 40-year time horizon, you can safely use 9% as your interest rate. The market has good years and bad years, but over any 10-20 year period it's rather consistent - you'll get an annualized return of 9% over any long period.

    1. Re:This will blow your mind. $733,637 coffee by Beeftopia · · Score: 1

      The first year, you sock away $2,000 in your low-risk index mutual fund. At the end of the year, the money has earned you $180, so at the end of the first year you have $2,180 from that first year. You add $2,000 more from not buying coffee, which is $4,180. Over the next year, that earns $376 of dividends or interest, for $4556 total. Your money expands exponentially!

      Even if you just put away $2,000 ONCE, then never add to it, in 40 years that $2,000 turns into $62,819.10. This is how most millionaires became millionaires - by putting away about $200-$500 per month.

      All I can say is, approach these kinds of rosy scenarios with caution. My experience in the market was putting in a healthy chunk of change in a low-risk index fund, letting it sit for a decade, then pulling out a little bit more. The interest rate was commensurate with a bank savings account.

      YMMV, but the big thing to remember is that trends do not continue linearly in perpetuity. I personally know smart people who swear by the stock market, and dollar cost averaging into a risking market makes one look like an investment genius. But there is a non-trivial amount of luck involved too, with picking the right fund/stocks and timing the market. There's a lot of market manipulation nowadays too.

      Over the past 30 years, we've had an epic bull market. People who started investing in the 80s made out like bandits. However, that past performance is no guarantee of future gains. IMO, understand the 'why' of stocks - what exactly they are, and how they will generate currency for you.

    2. Re:This will blow your mind. $733,637 coffee by Beeftopia · · Score: 1

      and dollar cost averaging into a risking market makes one look like an investment genius

      edit: "and dollar cost averaging into a RISING market makes one look like an investment genius."

  16. That's just cool by realilskater · · Score: 1

    I love reading about the complexities of the plant kingdom. Plants that communicate. Plants that delay eating for a bigger meal later. All cool things from organisms that have been evolving longer than any vertebrate.

  17. Any bachelor's degree: $900,000+ lifetime salary by raymorris · · Score: 2

    The census bureau reports that:

    over an adult's working life, high school graduates can expect, on average, to earn $1.2 million; those with a bachelor's degree, $2.1 million; and people with a master's degree, $2.5 million
    http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/...

    And that includes people who got degrees in African-American Art History! People who chose degrees with a thought toward doing productive work earn even more.

  18. I want one! by rockabilly · · Score: 1

    ...or one hundred. Now, if only the plant could do the same thing to mosquitoes....

  19. Re:On credit, or because you saved it and can affo by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1

    Well, it all depends. I just spent a little over $5k to go to Universal resort with my family for the Harry Potter parks , and I think it was well worth it. At least I can cross it off of my bucket list. Oh, and the money was already in the bank. Kinda hurts to see it go, but at least it didn't put me in debt.

    --

    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  20. PS - more of the same thinking = more money by raymorris · · Score: 1

    Also, if you apply the SAME type of thinking to choosing which company to work for, choosing the job with the best prospects for advancement rather than the best starting salary, you do even better.

  21. Re:It's the opposite of my wife's pussy! by tinkerton · · Score: 1

    My wife: Her pussy was always wet until we got married; then it dried up.

    Maybe you just haven't noticed the followup part of the metaphor...

  22. ANY 10 - 20 year period in an index, since the gre by raymorris · · Score: 1

    You CAN try to become very educated in not only stocks, but in specific industries, then try to pick the right stocks. Some people do that. If you're good or lucky, you might make quick money. That's not the way I do it, or the way most people do it.

    If you pick ANY decade any time in the last 80 years, the indexes never lost money. Which means broad bases mutual funds never lost money. Ever. Over ANY 20 year period, the returns are about the same. For exanple, the economy was booming when Clinton took office, and declining when he left office. The Bush Jr years were similar - good folowed by bad. That's pretty consistent - up and down in the short term, but in the long term you can pretty much guarantee you'll get BOTH, good and bad. And the good years always offset the bad, plus about 9%.

    Picking a fund is simple with this boring but always successful approach. You want a no-load index fund. That just means your not paying sales fees, and the fund owns a shitload of different stocks, so you don't care if one does poorly. Bonus points if you pick one with a low "expense ratio", which simply means you're not paying much to the company operating the fund. It's slow, it's boring, and it's how people become millionaires if they don't get a movie deal.

  23. Re:It's the opposite of my wife's pussy! by twitnutttt · · Score: 1

    My wife: Her pussy was always wet until we got married; then it dried up.

    Maybe you just haven't noticed the followup part of the metaphor...

    What?

  24. Re:It's the opposite of my wife's pussy! by tinkerton · · Score: 1

    that many more came after you.

  25. Re:It's the opposite of my wife's pussy! by twitnutttt · · Score: 1

    that many more came after you.

    ha ha!
    oh yeah, that happened too. :-P

    I tell you, if you take this story, substitute "pussy flower trap" for "pitcher flower trap," and change wet->dry and dry->wet, you're writing a science article about how my wife trapped me into marriage.