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European Countries Seek Sweeping New Powers To Curb Terrorism
New submitter cooler-than-ice (3981829) writes with this story from the Washington Post: Belgian leaders on Friday sought sweeping new powers to monitor and punish their citizens for involvement with terrorism, joining France in an effort to rewrite laws just hours after dozens of arrests across Europe offered dramatic evidence of the threats security officials say are facing the continent.
From the article: Apart from expanding powers to strip citizenship for dual nationals, Belgian leaders on Friday proposed devoting an additional $348 million to counterterrorism efforts. They also said they wanted the ability to take away identity documents to make it more difficult for people to travel to Syria and elsewhere. ... “As a result of the events in Paris, combined with what happened yesterday in Belgium, the political unanimity is quite great,” said Rik Coolsaet, a terrorism expert at Ghent University. “It is a bit of 9/11 syndrome.”
France is also charging forward with attempts to expand government powers to monitor threats — and to punish those who praise or do not readily condemn terrorism. Leaders this week called for new legislation to significantly bolster domestic intelligence agencies.
'Cause the Patriot Act worked out so well for us.
Never mind worrying about the terrorists winning, it's the fascists who are doing the winning
that the issue is pretty much totally muslims - when governments start to accept this we might have a chance
Action - reaction.
I've noticed that the Al Quai-da, ISIS or whoever want a war with the West. They should be careful what they wish for. And they shouldn't assume they'll be victorious because their god will help them.
They are under the impression that the war is happening and it's with the USA and Western Europe. Where the Al-Quaida pussies can run and hide in a mosque, sleep, get something to eat, jack-off etc ... knowing that the US will not go in. Same for hiding among civilians.
As this BS continues, the fascists are getting more supporters.
And when the fascists get in power, they will start blowing up mosques, killing every last man, woman, child in a village that harbors those people. War in the Middle East will be much different when the actual war with the West happens. That's what those putzes do not get. The Middle East will be flattened and the Muslims will be exterminated - and no one will care this time because it will be considered to be justified: the Muslims are violent animals and have to be put down, after all.
The Nazis are coming back.
Unlikely. A good deal of the west is more likely to go out with a whimper rather then a bang.
This has happened before. Rome fell under similar circumstances.
The collapse of its national religion, serious economic problems, worn out from war, massive immigration from cultures not loyal to the empire... and lots of corruption.
This is how the West falls.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
The whole recent thing about France being a bastion of freedom of speech has been a lie. Hell, the country won't even let people wear certain (but not all) religious headdress in public places, even when the choice of outfit interferes with nobody else. Trade in various expressions of speech, disgusting as the principles they represent, is illegal - the ban on trade in swastikas is well known, for example.
To say things like, "Fewer people than reported died in the Holocaust," is illegal to merely say in France, even though
i) it's accurate - about 5.1 million people died, not 6 million (still one of the worst genocides in history, which is why it needs to be recorded with utmost accuracy);
ii) it's a straight freedom of speech issue.that a person should be able to spout whatever shit (perhaps as long as their speech isn't part of planning to cause harm).
Indeed, Charlie Hebdo had to face the French legal system various times for its depictions from Catholicism through Israeli policy (and one of its contributors was an explicit, self-confessed anti-semite - a really nasty chap, but still, merely practising freedom of speech).
tl;dr France has no freedom of speech. Everything you are hearing on the news is a lie.
Wouldn't it make much more sense to devote some effort and expense to promoting the values of the enlightenment? In particular, devoting some educational effort towards eradication of irrational beliefs. Why not actually treat Islam (and Scientology, and Christianity) as the mental equivalent of a public heath hazard, where those who believe need to be helped to overcome it?
I think we make a serious mistake in our public discourse, by considering that:
violent minority = extremists = misinterpretation of scripture vs. peaceful majority = mainstream = correct interpretation of scripture.
whereas it would be more intellectually honest to consider:
violent minority = literalists = correct interpretation of scripture vs. peaceful majority = reformists = those who wilfully mis-interpret their scripture.
In other words, while almost all humans (of all faith and of none) are decent, good, tolerant peaceful people, they are decent to the extent that they discard their holy books, not to the extent that they follow them. The holy books themselves are beyond redemption, and should be considered to be "on the side of the devil".
Consider the spectrum of belief: (a)Secular humanist ---- (b) "Moderate" religion ----- (c) Extremist religion.
Position (b) involves belief in gods, prophets, and veneration of "perfect" scriptures. Position (c) is a very small step beyond, namely to actually read those scriptures, already considered perfect, and interpret them the literally, as they are written. So, if we want to prevent Islamic terrorism, the most effective argument is not detailed discussion of which Koranic verse overrides which other one (an argument which the moderates can never win), but instead, to argue for the wholesale abandonment of holy books.
Education, science, secular values, and human rights are the most potent weapon we have against faith, and yet politicians refuse to deploy them! If we took the money from the security services, and put it into schools, I think it would be far more effective.
France belongs to the French
Germany belongs to the Germans
Sweden belongs to the Swedes
Italy belongs to the Italians
In other words, they are the indigenous for their ancestors, for thousands of years, have settled in that place
And immigrants ? No matter if they are 2nd / 3rd / 4th or whatever generation, once they have decided to harm the indigenous they should be kicked out, immediately !
America belongs to...
Australia belongs to...
Ah, never mind.
Donate free food here
Multiculturalism only works when everyone agrees to the same rules of the road.
The big trouble here, is that a disturbingly large number of Muslims hold opinions that are complete anathema to open and free Western societies. They are only too happy to benefit from the freedoms afforded them; yet, as we've seen in the last week, they despise with every fibre of their being, other people exercising their _own_ rights in a free society.
This hypocrisy is going to tear Western societies apart unless something is done soon. The solutions, as I see them: 1) we let Muslims impose their culture on us; or 2) we impose our own culture while we are still a strong majority -- and then force the minority to pick sides.
Something has to give.
Because terrorism is a red herring, and this looks like a shiny new power they can grab without much hassle from the rabble. Fear is a great vehicle for stripping away liberties. Freedom is *far* more at risk from our own governments than it ever was from terrorists.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
But when your response as a supposedly free country is to limit people's freedoms, you have failed to uphold the principles you're supposed to aspire to and have become the enemy of liberty. I'll take freedom over this kind of 'safety.' If they want safety, they have to do it in a way that doesn't violate our freedoms and privacy.
In case you've been living under a rock for the last 14 years, they already have a war with the West/NATO.
In a somewhat ironic turn of events, Muslim fundamentalists in countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Syria and Gaza now have an actual real honest-to-science angry skydaddy with winged creatures that shoot fire from the sky.
Of course, this does not really bring us any closer to peace with the Islamists. If anything it probably helps them recruit.
Freedom is *far* more at risk from our own governments than it ever was from terrorists.
Really? How many newspapers feel free to publish cartoons featuring Mohammed as a character? Is it the government that causes that fear? There has been a recent terrorist attack over this resulting in a dozen deaths, with more threatened. And that isn't the only problem from this vector.
Oxford University Press bans use of pig, sausage or pork-related words to avoid offending Muslims
Salafist Muslim Group Forms 'Sharia Police' Patrol in Germany
Anti-gay, anti-alcohol: London's "Sharia patrol"
Swedish Police Release Extensive Report Detailing Control Of 55 ‘No-Go Zones’ By Muslim Criminal Gangs
Like most problems I'm sure this one will get better by simply ignoring it, or even better, pretending that measures to solve it are the cause of it.
Because terrorism is a red herring, and this looks like a shiny new power they can grab without much hassle from the rabble. Fear is a great vehicle for stripping away liberties.
Fear is a great vehicle? You mean like fear of government, the same governments that provide universal health care in Europe that everyone claims is the very height of civilization? So you can't trust government when it comes to stopping people with a demonstrated and announced desire to poison, shoot, or blow you up, but you can trust them to pump your body full of chemicals, with the power of life or death over you, to decide if you get food or water when you are too sick or weak to take care of yourself? Given the persistent confusion on these points this will probably not end well.
And your .sig? Pay attention to the bold: "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Those that pay no heed to their security are unlikely to remain free.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell