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Linus On Diversity and Niceness In Open Source
An anonymous reader writes "Linus Torvalds has sent a lengthy statement to Ars Technica responding to statements he made in a conference in New Zealand. One of his classic comments in NZ was: "I'm not a nice person, and I don't care about you. I care about the technology and the kernel — that's what's important to me." On diversity, he said that "the most important part of open source is that people are allowed to do what they are good at" and "all that stuff is just details and not really important." Now he writes: "What I wanted to say — and clearly must have done very badly — is that one of the great things about open source is exactly the fact that different people are so different", and that "I don't know where you happen to be based, but this 'you have to be nice' seems to be very popular in the US," calling the concept of being nice an "ideology"."
You have to be nice in business in the US because the principals have money and generally no knowledge of technology.
They are a class (which we most assuredly do have as much as they deny it) that doesn't want, or have to know details and will most assuredly terminate you if give them cause to have to think. Cause would be butthurtedness for not lionizing their brilliance at being self made (it's tough when you come from the "middle class", which is what anybody who knows somebody with more money thinks they are). To them, wealth is how you judge intelligence. If you're so smart, why aren't you rich? You're just a peon if you have to beg for scraps (a.k.a. be an employee)
Thing is they are only capable of thinking about money and believe "the customer" (them) "is always right".
The only workaround is to have enough knowledge for them to exploit while being part of an organization small enough where nobody is really readily expendable.
One should not mix up "being nice" with "not being a dick"...
In the US, there are two main problems with diversity:
1) Women don't really enjoy the work or the culture.
2) Non-Asian minorities tend to be at a severe disadvantage when it comes to the home life that gives whites and Asians early access and encouragement to get started.
Number two is reasonably remedied without radically changing the work or the culture. Number one isn't. Most women are simply never going to feel comfortable even in a polite but very competitive environment where they have to do the same sort of work as the respected men to get comparable respect. To many women, just showing up should entitle them to respect and encouragement, but Linus is correct here. Most people just don't give a damn that you're a woman in this field.
Linus is playing the "people want me to be PC" card, and mixing it in with some anti-American-ism for popularity.
Nobody's asking him to be PC. Not many people are asking him to be friendly or polite. People are asking him to not be publicly abusive, to not be a bully, and to recognize the impact his words have on others. It is perfectly possible to be an effective manager and leader without being abusive and bullying. Stick to the facts, among other things.
Ie:
"Your code check-in appears to cause a bunch of compile errors, so I've rolled it back. Also, I've noticed that this isn't the first time. We're a large-scale project and it is helpful if contributors extensively validate their contributions."
Not:
"Don't you know how to validate your code? Stop wasting my time! Come back to me when you've evolved past a chimpanzee." ...and also not:
"Hello! Thank you for your code check-in! Now, I'm sorry to have to be the bearer of bad news, but there's a small problem with your code. If it's not too much trouble...." etc etc.
Please help metamoderate.
I (barely) qualify as a kernel contributor. Neither Linus nor anyone else involved with the kernel even KNOWS what my racial heritage is*. That's as it should be, because skin complexion doesn't have any effect on the quality of ideas or code. It's simply not relevant. It's a distraction. All this talk about "diversity" is a sneaky way of continuing to divide people into groups based on where their great-great-grandparents were born. It's a stealthily way of keeping racism alive, forcing the politics of division into situations where people don't know or care about your ancient ancestors, they care about getting job done and done well.
I've never seen a penis or vagina produce any code, so we don't need more women in tech, we need more competent people in tech. Competent people like my mother, my boss Rachel, and myself. Rachel has helped solve some tough problems at work. She's never used her boobs to do so, meaning they just aren't relevant.
* also, most Slashdot readers don't know my racial heritage. Some therefore make the most ridiculous and comical accusations, like the idiot the other day who accused me of "dog whistle racism". Apparently he thinks that "planning ahead" == "white". At first that's offensive, for him to imply that my family can't plan ahead because we're too dark. Then I remember living with that kind deeply racist thinking while hating racism and therefore hating yourself must be quite painful. I pity the guy.
To an extent I agree with Linus. Being nice is not what counts. Especially if the project has a deadline approaching. But at the same time, there is a difference between not always being nice and being a belligerent asshole. And many times recently its obvious that Linus may not see that distinction.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I'm quite surprised to see people in the US asking for it!
I'm not. The USA is drifting farther away from being a meritocracy. More emphasis is placed upon achievement in social circles than professionally with STEM skills. "Nice" is a codeword for displaying the proper deference for people who may not have the technical skills to do a job but have been placed in charge (or see themselves as social leaders) of a group.
Have gnu, will travel.
Nobody's asking him to be PC. Not many people are asking him to be friendly or polite. People are asking him to not be publicly abusive, to not be a bully, and to recognize the impact his words have on others.
So, PC then - its his project, he can run it the way he wants.
So what if words have impact on others - grow a pair and deal with it, requiring others to cater for your pansy ass feelings *is* asking them to be PC.
Being a bully is also subjective - you are there voluntarily as part of the project, you can leave the project just as voluntarily.
Abusive is also a PC subjective thing.
So yes, you are asking him to be PC, because PC is the current attitude pushed by certain pressure groups.
.. and these SJWs loved Steve Jobs. Idolized him, even.
your thin skin doesn't make me a troll
If you are asking him to modify his behaviour because others do not like it or feel hurt by it, then yes that is being PC. The correct response to those people is "don't interact with him if you don't like his behaviour".
It's usually the assholes telling everyone else that they need to be nice.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Do you have any evidence of this? At all?
Because here's what I see:
Linux has remade the software world in its own image. I'd hardly call that "failing". Real actual super computer companies (e.g. Silicon Graphics) stopped developing their own OS and started shipping Linux.
Microsoft, the arch nemesis of Linux and Open Source, is shipping kernel patches and releasing code under open source licenses.
What does "success" look like to you?
And lest you say "that's just a singular case", we can look at Theo and OpenBSD. OpenBSD has been wildly successful, both as a BSD fork, but also in its broader mission to cultivate a software culture of excellence and correctness, with results that speak for themselves.
Linux and OpenBSD are two of the oldest open source projects around, with two pretty intense personalities at the helm.
I see no evidence to support your claim whatsoever.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
I suspect there are some mission critical projects which have decided to not use Linux when they found out how unprofessionally the leader acts. "Cool kernel, but can we really put our trust on this kind of guy?"
Then how do you explain all those mission critical projects using Oracle?
"Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
--- Jerry Garcia
Red Hat is likely to destroy Linux as we know it. That is something even Microsoft could not do.
I am a bit surprised that so many Linux do not understand how systemd is a scam that Red Hat is using to monopolize Linux.
I'm really surprised at how many of you act like luddites and want to control what others do.
If Linux is destroyd by all the systemd retards running across your lawn, you know exactly what the answer is. It's the same thing that people like you have been telling anyone with a complaint."
It's open source. If there is a problem - fix it.
In your world, the true believes in exactly how Linux muist be, should be able to rise, phoenix-like from the ashes, when systemd causes linux to utterly fail, by writing new and better operating systems the way that Linux must be.
You sound like people bitching about when they took lead out of gasoline, to make a car analogy. Going to destroy cars, going to have to do valve jobs at 50 thousand miles, it's not broken, don't fix it.
Yeah, I know - I just don't understand, right? At some point, that is the wrong answer.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.