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Drug Company CEO Blames Drug Industry For Increased Drug Resistance

BarbaraHudson writes Times Live is reporting that while doctors have usually been blamed for bacterial resistance because of over-prescribing, Karl Rotthier, chief executive of the Dutch DSM Sinochem Pharmaceuticals, claims lax procedures at drugs companies are the real cause. "Most antibiotics are now produced in China and India and I do not think it is unjust to say that the environmental conditions have been quite different in these regions. Poor controls mean that antibiotics are leaking out and getting into drinking water. They are in the fish and cattle that we eat, and global travel and exports mean bacteria are traveling. That is making a greater contribution to the growth of antibiotic resistance than over-prescribing", Rothier said. "We cannot have companies discharging untreated waste water into our environment, contributing to illness and, worse, antibacterial resistance. We cannot accept that rivers in India show higher concentrations of active antibiotic than the blood of someone undergoing treatment."

30 of 136 comments (clear)

  1. Holy Carp! by disposable60 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We cannot accept that rivers in India show higher concentrations of active antibiotic than the blood of someone undergoing treatment.

    --
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    1. Re:Holy Carp! by crioca · · Score: 2

      We cannot accept that rivers in India show higher concentrations of active antibiotic than the blood of someone undergoing treatment.

      I'd have to see a source before I'd credit that as true, but damn, it's a frightening concept.

    2. Re:Holy Carp! by vux984 · · Score: 2

      Agreed. I'd like to know more about the truth of that statement, but if its literally generally true - just how widespread is it etc. That's shocking and unacceptable.

      If its just one river that's not much more than creek being tested right next to the waste pipe of a pharma factory its still entirely unacceptable, but not quite as alarming as the statement would have us think.

      (Much like the 'great garbage patch' which although a real and genuine problem is not quite the floating garbage island the media headlines conjure. )

    3. Re:Holy Carp! by jae471 · · Score: 4, Informative
    4. Re:Holy Carp! by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 2, Funny

      Actually, this is a long term business conspiracy cooperation between China and India:

      1. Render antibiotics useless because of resistance
      2. The world will have no other choice but to rely on traditional Chinese and Indian medicines
      3. Profit!

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    5. Re:Holy Carp! by mrchaotica · · Score: 2

      If its just one river that's not much more than creek being tested right next to the waste pipe of a pharma factory its still entirely unacceptable, but not quite as alarming as the statement would have us think.

      The issue is not drug factories illegally dumping; the issue is that sewage treatment plants don't actually remove all contaminants from the water (just solids and bacteria, really) and that India has a whole lot of people. The drugs that are in the water got there by being prescribed to and passed through people. The only ways to fix it would be to design much more thorough (and expensive) sewage treatment, or for people to use much lower quantities of medicine.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    6. Re:Holy Carp! by DarkOx · · Score: 2

      I am not a medical doctor or any kind of doctor for that matter, but my understanding is many antibiotics are readily passed into urine even in patients with mostly normal kidney and liver function.

      --
      Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
    7. Re:Holy Carp! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Remember that in the early days of penicillin, when manufacturing meant making a couple of grams of the stuff, it was 'recycled' from patient's urine, purified and used again. Many drugs are passed unchanged through the kidney. Many more have only modest changes that might still be biologically active. Standard sewage treatment plants have a relatively haphazard approach to breaking down complex organic molecules of all sorts. If the primary bacteria and flocculation (precipitation) don't get the compound it goes into the drink (so to speak).

      UV radiation is pretty good at breaking down things, and even atmospheric radiation (without adding additional UV lights) works to some extent but it is slow and the UV does not penetrate any great deal into the water column. So you either need active UV filtering (something the EPA is pushing) or some other active means of removing organochemicals. Add industrial level effluents and you've got a problem. All of this requires money, time, rule of law and civil commitment. Which means it doesn't always happen - either in China or India or anywhere.

      --
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    8. Re:Holy Carp! by retchdog · · Score: 2

      once again, science and technology triumph where religion has shown mixed results at best!

      the previously legendary properties of the River Ganges are now firmly established! at least until the resistance evolves.

      --
      "They were pure niggers." – Noam Chomsky
    9. Re:Holy Carp! by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      Or maybe he just wants everyone to compete on a level playing field, which would result in less off-shoring to China and India because they either won't or can't meet the standards for waste.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    10. Re:Holy Carp! by Guppy · · Score: 5, Interesting

      So it's the water coming out of the plant that (sometimes) reaches that level. The actual river has orders of magnitude more flow than that.

      So he may have a valid point, but this is obvious FUD.

      So in other words, the river itself might have a few tenths or hundredths of a percent of a concentration below the therapeutic MIC (potentially of multiple different antibiotics, depending on what factories happen to be located on that river).

      Your interpretation of this is doesn't-matter, therefore FUD. My interpretation of this is enough to exert influence on relative competitiveness within a microbial community, and exert selection for antibiotic resistance.

      Long before you reach lethal anti-microbial concentrations, you get subtle changes in growth rate and microbial gene expression. In agriculture, farms routinely use antibiotics at just a few percent of therapeutic dosing, and that is already enough to cause massive changes in the microbial community (with the side-effect of improving the growth rate of the host animal). You don't need to directly kill the microbes themselves, you just need enough to skew the balance of power between the various micro-organisms that are busy competing with each other.

      The concentrations in the river may be a fraction below even that, but even slight pressures are enough to alter the course of evolution, when administered over a long enough time period. And "long enough" in this situation is in the context of an organism with 20-minute generation times.

    11. Re:Holy Carp! by dala1 · · Score: 2

      It's a prisoner's dilemma. Every player in the market has the choice to either improve waste disposal (cooperate) or not (defect). If everyone cooperates, then society as a whole wins, but the price of antibiotics go up across the board. However, if anyone defects, then they drive all those cooperating out of the market with lower prices. This is a perfect example of how government regulation (forced cooperation) can solve this type of dilemma.

    12. Re:Holy Carp! by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

      The winning play is to always do what the other guy does. So if people are cooperating, then they should cooperate. But someone needs to be first to switch. Currently everyone is defecting, so everyone loses.

      That and it's more a tragedy of the commons. It's cheaper to outsource our pollution, but it's still our planet.

    13. Re:Holy Carp! by ultranova · · Score: 2

      Everyone should be on a level playing field, but I'm not going to stop cheating first, I'll cheat until the government forces me to stop. But someone should really step up their game and force me to stop cheating.

      Tragedy of the commons: no one wants antibiotic-resistant bacteria, since they're a threat to everyone, but no one can stop cheating, since that means they'll go bankrupt and still get antibiotic-resistant bacteria caused by all the other cheaters. The only known solution is a Leviathan that forces everyone to stop cheating - or at least guarantees that anyone who continues cheating will not see any benefits from it.

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    14. Re:Holy Carp! by pepty · · Score: 2

      Mountain vs molehill. Whether or not companies are releasing antibiotics in rivers in India, the big problem is improper use across the globe. Also, China and India are still dealing with huge QC and fraud problems when it comes to drug manufacturing. Combine improper use with drugs that frequently only have a fraction of the stated amount of the active ingredient ...

  2. Slightly off topic... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 3, Informative

    Poor controls mean that antibiotics are leaking out and getting into drinking water. They are in the fish and cattle that we eat, and global travel and exports mean bacteria are traveling.

    And those fish, cattle and even people are getting those antibiotics for *free* - seriously impacting our bottom line and tight-fisted control over drugs that, in reality, don't really cost as much as we say they do to research and manufacture, but we sell for a metric fuck-ton of cash.

    According to this NY Times article, $2.6 Billion to Develop a Drug? New Estimate Makes Questionable Assumptions are an "estimate that drug companies could have made more money if they used their research investment for things other than drug development."

    In both of these announcements, a significant amount of the costs to develop the drugs were opportunity, or time, costs. They are the returns that might be expected, but that investors went without, while a drug was in development. When a drug company invests in research and development, it is tying up money that could otherwise be invested elsewhere. In this announcement, the Tufts Center says that $1.2 billion of the $2.6 billion is time costs.

    The end of the article notes:

    In 2010, a systematic review of studies that looked at the cost of drug development was published in Health Policy. The review found 13 articles, with estimates ranging from $161 million to $1.8 billion (in 2009 dollars). Obviously, methodology matters.

    That's a far cry from $2.6 Billion.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  3. Those wacky subcontractors by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    So, lemme get this straight.

    A drug company CEO is blaming manufacturing companies in third world countries (which the big drug companies use to cut costs) for having shoddy practices. This hand wringing goes so far as "I wish they'd clean up their act." But then stops, of course, because it's not OUR fault - it's those people over in India and China that are to blame.

    It's not like we hire them (or, in some cases, employ them as wholly owned subsidiaries), so we're in an excellent position to dictate policy (and ENFORCE policy) for them. Nope. It's all their fault. Nothing to do with us at all.

    This is Apple putting the blame on Foxconn for unconscionable conditions in their manufacturing plants. Or western garment companies who contract their manufacturing to Bangladesh shaking their heads at Tazreen.

    Shame on those other people in countries we choose to do work in because of lax regulation and cheap unskilled labor for having poor regulation and lacking skilled quality control people! It's all their fault.

    A drug company CEO taking this position, but not accepting any blame, disgusts me.

  4. But I thought... by Overzeetop · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Corporations said they would always act in the best interest because they're held accountable by stockholders and consumers? Is he saying that unregulated corporations are doing things which may be harming the population in general because of a short-term profit motive? Say it isn't so!

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
  5. Pot, meet kettle. (He's in denial today.) by zarmanto · · Score: 2, Insightful

    News flash! Drug company CEO blames the other manufacturers of drugs for problems adversely affecting their supply and demand ratios; stock holders and the media swallow it, hook, line and sinker. CEO is quoted as saying, "But don't worry... that's totally not us. You need to regulate our competitors -- err... ummmm... I mean, those other drug companies, over there... we're totally fine here. These aren't the drugs you're looking for. Move along."

    1. Re:Pot, meet kettle. (He's in denial today.) by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Informative
      I guess you didn't read the article.

      Antibiotic resistance is estimated to contribute to more than 25000 deaths every year in Europe alone.

      Penicillin, the first antibiotic, was discovered in 1928 and more than 100 compounds have been found since but, until a reported discovery earlier this month, no new class has been found since 1987.

      Dame Sally Davies, the UK government's chief medical officer, has said that antibiotic resistance is "as big a risk as terrorism" and warned that Britain could return to a 19th-century world in which the smallest infection or operation could kill.

      Rotthier said the responsibility was on everyone, from patients and doctors to governments and pharmaceutical companies, to take immediate steps to ensure the "legacy of antibiotics as a life-saving medicine is not squandered".

      We're running out of "magic bullets" to kill off bacteria. If you're a cynic, you could ask "What good is it to run a drug company if the drugs you make aren't in demand because they no longer work?" If you take it at face value, it's "This is some scary stuff that can affect everyone."

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:Pot, meet kettle. (He's in denial today.) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      No, the GP is almost certainly correct. As the CEO of a drug company, if Rotthier were arguing for onerous regulation of his own company out of concern for the environment...he would be the ex-CEO of a drug company. However, since his company manufactures drugs in Europe and that kind of dumping ("irresponsible behaviour") is already illegal, he is not-that-unjustly arguing--and probably lobbying--for protectionism against Asian drug manufacturers that are not held to the same environmental standards, and thereby presumably gain a (rather small) competitive advantage.

      However, if their products were banned from import into Europe until they came into compliance with European restrictions (much like electronics must be RoHS compliant to be legally imported), then for some period the Asian manufacturers would be at an immense competitive disadvantage, which might even erode their market shares permanently. Even in the more likely case that they were given time to comply, they are getting bad PR and needing additional capital outlays that don't inherently increase profitability.

  6. The problem isnt the manufacturers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Two thirds of all antibiotics go to perfectly healthy farm animals. Not to cure them of anything, but to make them fatter for market, and make more money for Agrobusiness.

    Get rid of that, and you will reduce the evolution and spread of antibiotic resistant bacteria by 2/3.

  7. It could be worse by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 5, Interesting

    "We cannot have companies discharging untreated waste water into our environment, contributing to illness and, worse, antibacterial resistance. We cannot accept that rivers in India show higher concentrations of active antibiotic than the blood of someone undergoing treatment."

    I'm just happy that Monsanto is not one of these drug companies. They'd probably sue everyone on the planet for drinking water that may contain their product and not paying for the privilege of consuming their pollutants.

  8. Re:More people should be serious about this by slew · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not like drug-resistant bacteria are going to rise up and kill us all at once some day in a weird, snotty epidemic...

    Actually, it may be like that... tuberculosis and pneumonia are quite capable in ravaging through our population if unchecked.

    In the years right before the wide availability of antibiotics in the US (1930's), just these two bacterial infections were responsible about 20% of all deaths in the US (not including other bacterial infections). If you've seen someone suffering TB, perhaps it might be considered your weird snotty epidemic...

    Also, those mushroom-based antibiotics aren't the ones of last resort. The nasty antibiotics with all the nasty side-effects are the modern ones (that are basically injectable pesticides that doctors often hold back as last resort). If we don't clean up our act we might be going back to something more akin to a pre-anti-biotic Victorian era with people dying of consumption (not some quaint 60's ampicillin pill-poping rehash).

  9. Sidenote by eskayp · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Graphics in linked articles show the effluent of Indian wastewater treatment plants. Few public wastewater facilities can, or were designed to, remove antibiotics from our waste. They are designed for household waste, not industrial waste. Most antibiotics and other drugs pass straight through a typical wastewater plant unharmed. In the USA, Industrial PreTreatment is required for businesses that would otherwise discharge toxic or damaging substances to a public treatment plant. Usually the offending business builds, runs, and pays for pretreatment. Unless, of course, the "good ol' boy" system can unload the cost onto local residents.
    America and India have the same problem; India just has more metric tons of it and far less regulation.
    FYI: licensed wastewater operator (retired).

    --
    I didn't desert Windows; Windows deserted me: BSOD
  10. Crunch all you want... We'll make more! by jep77 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    So is he saying that doctors should keep prescribing antibiotics for illness where they are unnecessary, and that prophylactic application of antibiotics in agriculture should continue? That is, the only thing that needs to be fixed is the manufacturing leakage?

    Of course that's the only problem. Because, in India and China, those problems aren't likely to be fixed any time soon (perhaps if ever). If over-prescription isn't the problem, doctors and agricultural users can continue purchasing unnecessarily large quantities of the drugs, guilt free. That's a convenient stance for a drug company CEO to have.

    I'm not saying that mishandled wastage at a drug plant isn't an issue. It appears that it is. The CEO said so. But I'd me more interested in seeing facts that back up his claim that overuse is not the issue causing antibacterial resistant bacteria. The overuse is probably more widespread than the factories, and probably more likely to be the cause of the superbugs in your area (unless, of course, your area is near these factories).

    1. Re:Crunch all you want... We'll make more! by Dixie_Flatline · · Score: 2

      In India, until March of this year, antibiotics were an off-the-shelf drug.

      http://bsac.org.uk/news/major-...

      You can't blame the doctors there for this one.

      But as usual, things are probably a mixture of things. In India, antibiotics were easy to get, and waste at the plants was an issue. In North America, over-prescription and people not taking the full course of drugs when they ARE required is an issue. In all places, prophylactic use in animals is definitely an issue.

      Put all those things together, and here we are. But it's nice to see this guy cop to his industry's (and his own, by implication) complicity in this problem. They're making drugs to help people, and the part that HE can control is how safely they manufacture the drugs. The agriculture and medical industries will have to be dealt with separately (and probably through legislation).

  11. Re:Hang on by geekmux · · Score: 3, Informative

    Exactly WHO decided to manufacture in China, that would be the big Drug companies as a guess. Exactly WHO should be monitoring their manufacture, that would be the big Drug companies as a guess. Exactly WHO encourages over subscription, a pill for everything, that would be the big Drug companies as a guess.

    My guess is something went wrong somewhere and they are starting the smokescreen already to divert attention.

    Exactly WHO here is the FDA, since they are the authority that allows those "big Drug companies" to even be in the business of making or selling drugs.

    And yes, something went wrong. It's called the Military Prescription Complex, also known as Big Pharma. You want to point to something or someone? How about you point the finger back to the very organization in charge of regulating Big Pharma.

    Course it might help if you didn't fill the fucking regulatory board overseeing that with a bunch of ex Big Pharma cronies hell-bent on ensuring profits are prioritized to the point of questioning their dedication to the Hippocratic oath.

  12. Re:Hypocrisy by ESD · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Demanding? I couldn't get the doctor to stop prescribing antibiotics for my kid for every minor throat infection. I just wanted to know whether it was serious or not (usually because we were going on vacation or visiting other families with very young babies and some anti-vaxxers.)

    I think I threw away four or five prescriptions immediately when we got home. Didn't even check what they were for, the remark 'Take this and come back in two weeks if it persists. Oh, you must use the prescription in its entirety' was enough to know that it wasn't serious and they were prescribing antibiotics anyway.

    Eventually we just started going to another doctor, but we haven't had a suspicious cough yet since we changed.

  13. Re:Hypocrisy by Razed+By+TV · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Besides, how many people just throw old pills in the *garbage* ? I'm pretty sure that's the main reason for drug resistance.

    It's funny, because this illustrates the bigger problem of people not being aware that when they stop taking antibiotics early, they potentially breed resistant bacteria if their illness relapses. *Noone* should have any antibiotics left to throw the garbage, with the rare exception of someone having an allergic reaction to them.

    My one coworker ceased her antibiotics when she felt better, relapsed, and had to get stronger antibiotics. In the meantime, she infected two of her family members with the more resilient bacteria, one of whom had to be hospitalized.