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Gender and Tenure Diversity In GitHub Teams Relate To Higher Productivity

New submitter Bogdan Vasilescu writes: Diversity in teams is a double-edged sword. Increased team diversity results in more varied backgrounds and ideas, providing the team with access to broader information, enhanced creativity, adaptability, and problem solving skills. However, due to greater perceived differences in values, norms, and communication styles in more diverse teams, members become more likely to engage in stereotyping, cliquishness, and conflict.

In a recent study, researchers from University of California, Davis and Eindhoven University of Technology, The Netherlands have analyzed the effects of gender and tenure diversity on productivity and turnover for more than 23,000 open-source projects on GitHub. Using regression modeling, they showed that after controlling for team size and other confounds (such as a project's age, development model, or amount of social activity), both gender and tenure diversity are positive and significant predictors of productivity, together explaining a small but significant fraction of the data variability. On an economic and societal scale, these findings suggest that added investments in educational and professional training efforts and outreach for female programmers will likely result in added overall value.

The paper describing the results (preprint PDF here) will be presented at the prestigious ACM CHI Conference on Human Factors in Computing Systems, in Seoul, South Korea, in April 2015.

58 of 106 comments (clear)

  1. joint-cause rather than cause/effect? by oneeyedziggy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I suspect this may be a matter of the disposition of the team causing both diversity and efficiency, rather than diversity directly causing efficiency. Teams that aren't full of a-holes tend to accept more varied members and end up more diverse, and also happen to work well together...

    1. Re:joint-cause rather than cause/effect? by sribe · · Score: 1

      I suspect this may be a matter of the disposition of the team causing both diversity and efficiency, rather than diversity directly causing efficiency. Teams that aren't full of a-holes tend to accept more varied members and end up more diverse, and also happen to work well together...

      Weeeell... My limited experience is that there is actual benefit to diversity itself. Of course the "disposition" of the team is a necessary prerequisite, but given the same disposition, but lack of diversity because of lack of qualified candidates, and you don't get the same benefits.

      I really don't think we should be socially engineering too much to push women into jobs that many do not like. I really don't think 50/50 is necessary. But I definitely see some from 25-30% female (and find it hard to believe that there's not at least that many who would be interested if there weren't societal/attitude barriers).

      When it comes to diversity of race and nationality, I really haven't seen a difference. In my experience white, black & asian nerds are all still nerds and the mix doesn't make a bit of difference ;-)

      (But I say "black" because in my limited experience I've never hired an African-American, just African. So I can't rule out that AA vs A would indeed bring different viewpoints/attitudes.)

    2. Re:joint-cause rather than cause/effect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It could be a matter of success causing greater diversity, too. If the minority groups (say, women and low-tenure coders) are more inclined to join a successful project, we'd see the same effect.

      It's a bit irresponsible to call for educational policy - especially when it's outright discriminatory - on the basis of these results, without even adding this sort of disclaimer.

    3. Re:joint-cause rather than cause/effect? by oneeyedziggy · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree with this at all. I've experienced there being both pros and cons to diversity in its own right, and I think we'd all like to think the pros outweigh the cons so long as individuals aren't jerks

  2. tl;dr version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Quoting from the paper

    ...

    We use statistical modeling to analyze the relationship of gender and tenure diversity to productivity, when controlling for team size and other confounds. We find that both gender and tenure diversity have a significant, positive effect on productivity, gender across all team sizes and tenure for teams larger than 10. Together, these two explain 1–2.5% of the data variance, depending on team size.

    ...

    We measure team productivity by the number of commits by team developers recorded in either the main repository or any of its forks in a given quarter.

    ...

    So, basically if you use a completely BS measure of "productivity" (# of commits) teams that are more diverse and with longer tenure tend to be slightly (1% to 2.5%) more "productive".

    Where do I sign up for grant money to produce crap research like this?

    1. Re:tl;dr version by Karmashock · · Score: 1, Informative

      Likely a gender studies department. No one ever audits them and they get to peer review themselves. I believe nearly all of it comes from a circle of about 5 prominent female professors that basically just circle jerk the entire subject.

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    2. Re: tl;dr version by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe that's where we need more diversity.

    3. Re:tl;dr version by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Its the internet and a discussion forum at that... colorful language is a prerequist to being read.

      If you're boring, people don't listen and then you might as well not even post... unless it is really short.

      And I do love to rant.

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    4. Re:tl;dr version by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      So, basically if you use a completely BS measure of "productivity" (# of commits) teams that are more diverse and with longer tenure tend to be slightly (1% to 2.5%) more "productive".

      Where do I sign up for grant money to produce crap research like this?

      It's worse than you think - If X and Y are responsible for 2.5% of $FOO, X could be zero while Y could be 2.5%. It's very telling that they cannot give the correlation numbers for either exclusively X or exclusively Y in their paragraph, it has to be given as a sum, because then you can't tell which of them actually has the measured effect.

      Poor research (again!) - 2/10 for trying. Good troll though - 10/10 for all the baffling numbers that most people are unable to see through.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    5. Re:tl;dr version by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      But are we not told that not all women have vaginas and that some women can be women while also having penises?

      So... why so bigoted? :-D

      I believe a production put on by a feminist organization of the vagina monologues was canceled because it was discriminatory towards women without vaginas. True story.

      It is turtles all the way down.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

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    6. Re:tl;dr version by buchner.johannes · · Score: 3, Informative

      They are 6 male authors from the Computer science departmentIt, one female (not a professor). Your stereotyping misled you.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    7. Re:tl;dr version by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      In addition, I'm no statistician but doesn't "significant" mean "zero is not within the error bars"? I wonder how many people are going to read "significant' as "large"...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:tl;dr version by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Karmashock, you speak as one interested enough to comment, but not interested enough to know jack shit. A delicate balance for you, ja? I like the link you Science and Reason link, so thanks! .... but I'm trans, and although I'm successfully working as a contractor developer, I'm also thinking "maybe this is what people really say behind my back". But then I think ... "the people who matter to me don't think like this, so maybe this guy is full of shit". What do you think? It all sounds like this is a big outrage to you, where the smart people are handling it without a glitch.

      I suspect that some of the people who matter to you do think like this.

      Try to grasp this; one can be against something but not hate the people who instantiate/exemplify that thing.

      I am against smoking, I have many friends who smoke. I am against monotheism, I can still have friends who are muslim. I think transgenderism is just a delusion, does that mean I have to hate you? I don't think so.

      You may believe that I'm wrong-headed about your 'condition', or whatever you want to call it, but do you have to believe I hate you? Or I'm afraid of you?

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    9. Re:tl;dr version by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      You pull out your trans card like it somehow is a rhetorical auto win.

      You believe in our equality yes? Then why are you presuming to cite your persuasion and some how instantly win without actually presenting a reason for it?

      You say "maybe people speak about me like you behind my back"... like what? What did I say that was wrong?

      Even someone that is trans should get the humor of the trans feminists shutting down the vagina monologues because they don't have vaginas. Come on. That's hilarious.

      I'm not afraid of your trans nature. It doesn't mean anything to me. What offends me if anything is that people of any gender presume to use their gender to exert power over other people when they didn't earn that power.

      You're trans? Great. Remind me why I care. I don't look down upon you.

      I also don't look down upon the women feminists or otherwise but their vaginas are not an excuse to tell anyone to shut up about anything. That's plumbing.

      We are both individuals. You. Me. Individuals.

      You talk to me individual to individual and we can respect each other. You presume to play your trans card and that frankly gives me the right to play my hetro male card. You can doubtless slam some very powerful politically correct punches at me. But then if I play my hetro male card I can just laugh at and not care. That's how the hetro male card works. I didn't make those rules they're printed on the card.

      Now, I'd rather not do that. So you don't try to use your gender against me and I won't use my gender against you.

      Seems fair. We can all just respect and love each other... if people aren't going out of their way to be assholes to each other. And the feminists are going out of their way to be assholes. And you shoving your trans in my face and presuming to make me feel bad for you or something is also a dick move.

      Be nice or how is it immoral if your opposition takes the gloves off and engages?

      I am not your enemy. All I ask is to be left alone. You leave me alone. I leave you alone. Feminists get in my face... then they want to play. What do you expect men to do? Roll over and die because some confused bats get tweaked by some seriously silly propaganda?

      Not going to happen.

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    10. Re:tl;dr version by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Fair point. However, a huge amount of the gender studies stuff does go through a uniformly female academic program and nearly all of it is peer reviewed by literally 5 people. So in this case not the case... point to you.

      I stand corrected.

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  3. productivity != commit count by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    They were measuring commit count and calling it "productivity". Commit count could actually mean that there were more bugs, thus more bugfixes commited.

    1. Re:productivity != commit count by david_thornley · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Doubtless they had some statistics, mostly bad, and went with one that looks better than the others. The advantage is that few people think of commit count as productivity, so they don't game it. I'd like to see the study redone over a longer time, so there could be productivity statistics based on the progress of projects rather than a simple activity measure.

      There's also possible biases here. It could be that women are more conservative in what they want to do than men, so the projects that get started and really don't go anywhere (because they're impossible, infeasible, or overly ambitious) tend to be man-heavy. It could be that male chauvinist assholes don't generally work well with anybody, so they first drive women away and then make the project suffer, while men women like to work with tend to do better as a team. Since this is open source development, where everybody works on what they personally decide to do, this will be hard to separate out.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  4. Really? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1, Flamebait

    /. are you fucking kidding me? This is every single fucking day now we have another story about gender this-or-that in tech. Give it a fucking rest.

    Diversity is fine. Let people do whatever the hell they want to do. But shut the fuck up about it already. Constantly harping on the same shit over and over again. Just like a woman, my god...

    --
    We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    1. Re:Really? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 2

      /. are you fucking kidding me? This is every single fucking day now we have another story about gender this-or-that in tech. Give it a fucking rest.

      Diversity is fine. Let people do whatever the hell they want to do. But shut the fuck up about it already. Constantly harping on the same shit over and over again. Just like a woman, my god...

      Oh, the irony... Oh, the humanity ...
      The same complaint could be said about linux, systemd, bitcoin, privacy, government snooping, social media ...
      If you;re so upset, you can always wait until Bennett Hazelton writes about it.

      We can pretty much all agree that the study's methodology absolutely sucks so it has no value. Perhaps it's good that such studies get some "air time" so they can be debunked rather than being accepted as the new "textus receptus". Maybe then, more reasonable arguments that aren't biased by a need for political correctness will prevail :-)

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:Really? by gnasher719 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Diversity is fine. Let people do whatever the hell they want to do. But shut the fuck up about it already. Constantly harping on the same shit over and over again. Just like a woman, my god...

      On MacRumors, it was reported that Apple dedicated their homepage to Martin Luther King, Jr. a few days ago. The same kind of outrage as yours was the result.

      If you don't want to hear about it, surely the title of this thread was a giveaway that should have stopped you from reading it, if that is what you wanted. But that's not what you want. You want people to "shut the fuck up" about a subject that is interesting and important to many people. You must really feel threatened by the idea that women could be part of a software development project.

    3. Re:Really? by digsbo · · Score: 1

      No, you're missing the point. I was sent to "diversity training" with coworkers. At my table were immigrants from China, India, Syria, Ireland, South America, and a natural born US Citizen (me). The thing that made it sucktastic, which we all agreed it was, was wasting our time with infantile bullshit about understanding each other, which we already did.

      Being preached at about non-problems sucks.

    4. Re:Really? by Oligonicella · · Score: 1
      Do you honestly believe that having a higher commit count indicates anything at all about "playing well with others"? From the article:

      We measure team productivity by the number of commits by team developers recorded in either the main repository or any of its forks in a given quarter.

      It could just as easily be argued that it indicates sloppy technique or a battle of egos.

    5. Re:Really? by HBI · · Score: 1

      He's one of the assholes who make the problems. Probably lost a lot of lunch money on the playground, so now it's time to WIN via a collective power to irritate.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    6. Re:Really? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      I'm not threatened. Half my team is women, my boss is a woman, most of the people I report to are women, and I have a happy, productive and harmonious work environment. I'm just tired of seeing the same story over and over again...

      The bit about the "Just like a woman..." was a joke.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    7. Re:Really? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      Adblock + noscript + I'm logged in with high karma and have the "disable advertising" box checked.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    8. Re:Really? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      There's nothing sucktastic about working in a diverse environment. What is sucktastic is the constant barrage of social engineering posts dressed up as "science."

      "Oh gosh fellas, if we just had more women on the team our GitHub project would have more commits!"

      No, no it fucking wouldn't. Who gives a shit? You want your project to be successful? Get good people working on it, who gives a shit what's between their legs.

      And the science is garbage. They measure productivity by number of commits. What does the number of commits have to do with having a successful project? If you've got four commits a day because you screwed up three times, that's not so good.

      They also said turnover was bad. Turnover itself is neither good nor bad. Now why you've got turnover is important. Are people quitting your project because it's full of misogynists? That's bad! But what if it's full of misandrists? Or maybe you've got turnover and low commits because...the project is "finished" or stable, and you only need a few patches a year to keep it current? Not everything has to be developed forever!

      So, it's fucking stupid. It's shit study. It's a shit method. It was undertaken, designed and published to push an agenda.

      Diversity is fine. Agenda-pushing pseudoscience is intellectually dishonest and creates strife rather than harmony, which I think we really want.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    9. Re:Really? by digsbo · · Score: 1

      All it takes is a few bad apples to mess it up for everybody.

      Your company was covering their ass so that if someone does that in the future they can point to the training and say "you were warned".

      Agreed on both counts. The thing that confuses the heck out of me is why anybody would think an hour long session like that is going to change anybody who's really got problems with different people. It seems a totally pointless waste of time and effort instead of just dealing with assholes directly and effectively. And that's why even though I agree with you, I still see the PC police as making things sucktastic. It's like paying a tax to fund a completely wasteful program.

    10. Re:Really? by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      The same complaint could be said about linux, systemd, bitcoin, privacy, government snooping, social media ...

      This site is supposed to be about exactly that kind of stuff though. If we wanted the latest social justice warrior missives we'd be on pleb.com.

    11. Re:Really? by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I guess you missed the part that I bolded where the parent poster had written "Just like a woman, my god ..." right after he complained too many stories "about gender this-or-that in tech. "

      We have many issues in tech - including stagnant or declining wages, lousy working conditions, "up-or-out" mentality, ageism, racism, and yes, sexism.

      Pretty much every day there are many comments about H1Bs and the lack of job security and "good lock getting a new job after 40", and quite a few stories are about those issues.

      That doesn't mean it's okay to give sexist attitudes a pass because there's so many other problems. You can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. Your call. :-) Or if it upsets you so much, just don't read the article. Ignoring the issue won't make it go away, but it will buy you peace of mind.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    12. Re:Really? by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      I guess you missed the part that I bolded where the parent poster had written "Just like a woman, my god ..." right after he complained too many stories "about gender this-or-that in tech. "

      Mm. Bottom line is that when a woman cries everyone rushes to help, when a man cries he's treated with disdain. That's both the reality and not neccessarily a bad thing for men, indicative as it is of an expectancy to solve problems and deal with personal responsibility, but the OP's dodgy phrasing merely reflects the general social and personal expectations placed on women these days, which are few and far between.

      And feminism is not helping in that regard. What, you want to talk about manspreading and the Corsten report? These things do not make women stronger, they will not create Ellen Ripleys. They create generation after generation of adult children.

      We have many issues in tech - including stagnant or declining wages, lousy working conditions, "up-or-out" mentality, ageism, racism, and yes, sexism.

      Sexism my ass. If anything techies love capable women and respect them, as do most men.

      That doesn't mean it's okay to give sexist attitudes a pass because there's so many other problems. You can be part of the problem, or part of the solution. Your call. :-)

      I prefer to not be part of the pollution myself. Toxic feminism and social justice acolytes can burn.

    13. Re:Really? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      You not only don't mention sex, but opportunities or reasons given.

      There are positions where the sex of the person matters. This includes washroom attendants, prostitutes, sex surrogates, models, acting roles, and more. When I was in grad school, we had female-only parking ramp escort openings, for good reason.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  5. The trust about "diversity" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I used to work for a company that was huge into making sure we had plenty of "diversity". What that meant, was that they didn't hire the best people for the job, unless that helped them meet their diversity quota. It meant that they promoted people who were more "diverse" instead of promoting the people who actually deserved it. These two categories only overlapped about 50% of the time. If you want more diversity, that's great. Do outreach to groups that aren't in the market sector, but don't crap on the people who actually went into the sector of their own volition, just because they aren't "diverse" enough.
     
    P.S. I'll bet money that this report wouldn't have been released if their study would have shown any other outcome.

  6. Sounds right ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

    Teams in which everyone participates and isn't shoved aside work together, teams which act like high school cliques don't.

    You can't force that to happen, but the best teams I've ever been on are more or less ego-less, or at least self correcting for maintaining some mutual respect and listening to one another. You duke it out in front of a whiteboard, and then work together the rest of the time.

    Some of the shittiest teams I've been have been populated by people who were stuck in what they 'knew', unwilling to listen to new idea, and mostly closed to outsiders -- because they suffered from insular groupthink and being unwilling to listen to someone who isn't one of them.

    Often the senior person in good teams directs, cajoles, and smooths things along ... but doesn't impose or dictate.

    Willingness to say "this is what I think, but I want to hear if it's stupid" goes a long way to making teams work well together.

    "Your idea is crap and you should shut up", not so much.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    1. Re:Sounds right ... by Gliscameria · · Score: 1

      I don't know man... I'm having the opposite feeling about "Your idea is crap". Sometimes your idea IS crap, and it should be totally acceptable for someone to tell you that if they can back up why your idea is crap. I'd put a whole lot more effort into making people less butthurtable and less into worrying about everyone's butthurtiness.

      --
      X
    2. Re:Sounds right ... by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Well, I've been on a fair few teams.

      And, we encourage crap ideas. Identifying the crap ideas is how we move forward and identify the good ideas. When you're in a free scrum, throw out all the terrible ideas you can think of -- that's why we're doing it.

      However, the dynamic of how you get there makes all the difference in the world in terms of how the team works.

      If you need to act like an aggressive douchebag to make yourself feel good, you probably suck as a teammate.

      Maybe instead of saying "it's my right to be an asshole, suck it up princess", you should realize that you're an asshole, and nobody finds that amusing except you.

      If you can't act like an adult, expect to be treated like a child.

      Most organizations have little patience for someone who acts like it's the fault of the person who gets offended, when the person doing the offending is a self entitled prick. Because you're just a liability.

      Disagreement is part of life. Handling it like grown ups, is also part of life.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    3. Re:Sounds right ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      In what way are you disagreeing with GP? gstoddart says he likes ego-less teams, you say that everybody should be free to call an idea crap if they've got reasons. That's one of the fundamental traits of the ego-less team: if somebody has reasons to call your idea crap, you're not emotionally invested in it and you can recognize that.

      What gstoddart said is that you don't just say "your idea is crap and you should shut up", not the "your idea is crap and this is why" you suggest.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    4. Re:Sounds right ... by Gliscameria · · Score: 1

      Being a dick is just as bad a promoting shit ideas. Ideally you aren't partaking in either, but all ideas aren't equal. A lot of the times you need someone qualified in the group to carry the stick and shut down bad ideas.

      --
      X
    5. Re:Sounds right ... by Gliscameria · · Score: 1

      If you read his reply I think it will illuminate a bit on why we disagree on some of the finer points. He's more on the "don't offend people" side of the spectrum and I'm more on the "don't get offended" side. After working in groups there is some value in making it very clear that all ideas will be greeted warmly, so you'd best have thought it through before taking up everyone's time. Otherwise we're spend more time on somehow rationalizing 6 month Bob's nonsense than we are on implementing 10 year Sam's plan. Don't get me wrong - Ogres are generally just as bad. They stifle good ideas and eventually the group dies. Right now I'm just seeing a tendency towards coddling everyone.

      --
      X
    6. Re:Sounds right ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If I feel I can only contribute ideas that will be greeted warmly, I'm going to shut up when I might have contributed something. If I feel I'll be told to shut up and told I'm a crappy person if my idea is bad, I'm going to shut up preemptively. If I feel like my idea will be eagerly considered no matter what, I'm going to shut up out of fear that I say something stupid and everybody will suffer. If I can kick out ideas that might be crap, and I can rely on others to help evaluate them and tell me why they're crap, I can be open.

      I don't see that either of you are disagreeing with that.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  7. Arbitary diversity is not... by Karmashock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ... actual diversity.

    Having a guy and a girl does not mean you have diversity of thought or ideas or talent or ability. It means you have one person that can pee standing up and another that can gestate babies if you give them 9 months and all the ice cream.

    If you have a white girl and a black guy that does not mean you have diversity. You have one person that sits down to pee and one person that has to make sure he wears bright clothing when he walks at night to avoid getting hit by cars.

    REAL diversity is diversity of MIND not diversity of sex organ or color. You can have more diversity with 10 black women then some random mix of genders and races because those 10 black women might actually be very different people while your random mix of genders and races might only be different on the surface.

    This obessession with statistical diversity figures is tedious, stupid, and increasingly depressing.

    I am not my gender.

    I am not my skin color.

    I am not my nationality.

    How many people do you think that share my phenotypes are likely to agree with me or think the same way as I do about everything? I assure you... not a lot of them do. I am an odd duck. I am as likely to find someone with a vagina or a different shade of skin that holds my views or thinks the way I do as one that superficially resembles me.

    Diversity is not gender or skin color. Diversity is mind.

    And if there is anything ironic about the people crying for diversity it is how intolerant they frequently are of anyone that holds any view that is even a little different from their own.

    What ever their intentions, they're not creating diversity. They're bullying everyone around them to fall into exact lockstep according to arbitary statistical data that doesn't actually mean anything.

    Imagine if we were a bunch of cats. Does it really f'ing matter how many cats of some random number of spots are doing one thing or another?

    This is the 21st century. Get over it. You're fighting last century's civil rights issues instead of opening your eyes to the civil rights issues of the 21st century.

    What you should be concerned with are things like privacy, corruption, freedom, economic mobility, free flow of information, etc.

    That is something that will actually matter. This gender/race crap is relevant only so far as you're dealing with actual racists etc. And since most of these claims boil down to subconscious bias the reality is that we know we're not dealing with the old bigotry anymore. There are bigger issues out there. Focusing on this if anything simply makes it worse because you're making it harder for people to be gender/race blind.

    All this crap boils down to at some point is that people want UNofficial race/gender quotas. I think Channel 4 in the UK recently told their managers they'd only get bonuses if their staffs reflected specific race and gender quotas. That is what this stuff creates.

    And assuming you got race and gender quotas ubiquitously imposed everywhere, how would that be good for traditionally discriminated populations? After all, everyone would know that they HAVE to be hired even if they're not competent because there are quotas. Which means everyone will assume right or wrong that they're incompetent because they can be hired without being competent.

    Just think it through, kids. You're like that simple kid that shows up to track and just runs through all the hurdles without understanding he was supposed to try to jump over them.

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    1. Re:Arbitary diversity is not... by Gliscameria · · Score: 2

      If you are a poor, chances are you have a whole lot more in common with a poor person of different gender/skin/location than you do with a rich person that looks just like you. You'll probably think like, act like and relate to them. If you have a rainbow of workers coming from all corners of the earth and they all were raised more or less upper middle class and went to school to train for that specific job, guess what, you have diversity for shit. Everyone in that group is more or less going to be conditioned to think the same way, which doesn't work so well if you are doing actual problem solving. If you want some diversity in programming, then quit making it sound like some club with a secret language and decoder ring. You can do programming without liking programmers.

      --
      X
    2. Re:Arbitary diversity is not... by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily. There are a lot of rich kids that know who all the rappers are and there are some poor kids that learned how to play the violin at 8.

      You're trying to simply the world. To break everyone down into simple groups and pretend that we're not all just individuals.

      I'm an individual. I am not a group. I am not strictly speaking in a lot of groups but I share things in common with a lot of groups that you wouldn't expect.

      I know things you wouldn't expect looking at my background. And I like things that you wouldn't expect looking at my background.

      I am capable of things that you wouldn't expect unless I just told you. It won't show up on anything.

      As to diversity solving problems... people that think differently can come up with different approaches. That is about as far as that goes. It is useful. But more relevant is how competent they actually are. I'll take a dozen really good but very similar engineers any day over a bunch of okay engineers that are all really different.

      Yes, the work done by the diverse group will probably be more interesting but the point of engineering is not to be entertaining. The really good engineers are more likely to actually have done a good job even if it were done in a boring way.

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    3. Re:Arbitary diversity is not... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      When I was going to grad school, my son was in the University day care. I met the other parents now and then. All sorts of skin colors, nationalities, and religions, and very little diversity of thought. The other parents were fascinating and rational and easy to discuss things with, and worked on a large array of things, but fundamentally they all thought the same way.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    4. Re:Arbitary diversity is not... by Yakasha · · Score: 1
      This.

      I think what the "study" is missing is the fact that they're studying OSS on GitHub. The diversity there is implicit in the model. GitHub does not have a downtown office where all the contributors meet daily from 9-5 to work on their respective projects. So the talent pool is not artificially limited or hindered by the location. Anybody, anywhere, at any time, can start, end, join, or leave a project at a whim. Contributors are world-wide.

      Amazon's Seattle office (not picking on Amazon, it is just a nice example) will never be that diverse because it requires anybody that wants to work there to move to Seattle. The people that do end up working there will be inundated with Seattle's culture & mindset, becoming less diverse the longer the office stays open. People aren't going to magically change sex or skin tone, but their brains will start to think alike because they're all forced to be a part of the same culture.

      Sure, Amazon can attract diversity to Seattle. There are countless big name projects from big name companies that were created by truly diverse teams. But that is not the standard the "office in city X" naturally promotes. They have to specifically look for diversity by offering relocation benefits, extra stock options, visas, etc.

      Of course what I'm truly saying is you're more likely to get the benefits of diversity if you look for geographic differences in your workforce as that marker is a more likely indication of different mindsets brought about by varied cultures.

    5. Re:Arbitary diversity is not... by Karmashock · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Well, you have to consider that we've also created a situation where it is expensive for businesses to take risks on employees as well.

      Now, right or wrong... would you blame a company for feeling that one name or another was less risky?

      Something you could do that would make it cheaper to take risks would be to make it easier to fire people arbitarily shortly after being hired. Additionally, reduce the red tape and legal exposure of hiring and then firing someone.

      If I can try someone out, see if they're any good first hand, and then have the option to keep them on or terminate them without being subjected to a bunch of bullshit then I'm going to be more inclined to hire people that might not work out.

      The other issue is that all this racial/gender/political correct diversity nonsense just makes everyone feel really tense for no reason. Especially people that are painted as the wicked stepmother in this little fairy tale. It is the 21st century.

      Raise your hand if you've ever owned slaves.

      Raise your hand if you've ever beaten a women for not knowing her place.

      Exactly. Can we get over this shit please? We're all just people. If we're going to work together then this nonsense needs to stop. Because bringing it up endlessly if anything makes people of all arbitrarily relevant phenotypes uncomfortable with anyone that isn't a member of their arbitrarily relevant phenotype.

      I can fire or yell at a person that is from my phenotype and not get accused of discrimination or racism or sexism or whatever. But do that to someone of another phenotype? Suddenly I'm a fucking monster. That creates problems.

      And here some bright spark is going to say "well just don't yell at people"... only sometimes people need to be yelled at. Its that or you just fire everyone that fucked up the first time and while terrible managers think that is a great idea the turn over and constant retraining required to sustain that folly isn't efficient. It is a lot easier to fix a broken employee then it is to replace them typically. The only thing you cannot abide is a lack of integrity or a lack of respect. Either one of those happens from a subordinate and it has to get corrected fast or they're gone.

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    6. Re:Arbitary diversity is not... by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      If the issues were still that serious then black people would be in chains and women would be making sandwiches.

      Get this through your head. White people freed black people. The black people did not heroically rebel and overthrow their overlords. The opinions and values of the nation changed and black people were freed as a consequence of that.

      Same thing with women. Look at Saudi Arabia. Do you honestly think that the men of the west couldn't keep the women making sandwiches for all time? Think again.

      And on top of that, we're a republic and not a dictatorship so these things happening are a result of a general change in public opinion on the matter.

      Does that mean that there aren't racists and sexists out there? They will always exist. Always.

      And while you sit there and say "legislating it doesn't make it go away" I have to ask what all the activists are trying to do then if they're not trying to get laws passed? Because it sure sounds like they want laws passed. And if laws don't make something so then clearly they've confused themselves.

      The real civil rights issues are not about race or gender. They're about basic human freedoms. Access to information. Due process. Transparency of government. Corruption.

      These are things that will matter in the generation to come.

      This gender race thing makes about as much sense as those moron politicians that thought the solution to the 2008 economic crisis was to build literal bridges and literal trains as if the whole thing were a repeat of the 1930s.

      It isn't the 1930s and it isn't the 1960s.

      It is 2000 fucking 15. I'm guessing everyone saw some movie or documentary that got them all nostalgic but that sentiment is about as rational as 8 year olds running around naked with red towels tied around their necks because they saw 300 or something.

      The problems that we face are contextual to this time period. Not the whatever your parents or grand parents precieve as the "glory days". Those were THEIR glory days.

      OUR glory days are NOW. And our issues are OURS to define. Not theirs. Stop letting other people define what you must think and believe. That is another big problem we need to struggle against.

      Mass media, politicians, interest groups... the megaphone ideas out there and most people just slurp them up without thinking about them. That has to stop. Liberate your mind. Think for yourself. Stop just repeating shit someone repeated in front of you so many times that it is stuck in your head like a catchy tune.

      This should be the rise of the individual. We are in the age of the 3d printer. The age of the internet where any fool can get access to any bit of information. We have all these wonderful technologies that level the playing field between the haves and the have nots and so many idiots are stuck singing an old song that is about as relevant today as "Johnny comes marching home"... which is a WW1 song by the way.

      We can be better then this.

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    7. Re:Arbitary diversity is not... by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 1

      Oh you and your sane, reasonable remarks...

  8. Exactly by poity · · Score: 1

    Open-minded people are more accepting of diversity, and will in the aggregate have relatively more diverse teams.
    Open-minded people are more accepting of different ideas, and will in the aggregate have relatively more ways of solving a problem.

    This does not mean having a diverse team will result in having more ways of solving a problem. Gathering a bunch of like-minded dogmatists from different races/genders is unlikely to result in any benefit.

    --
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    1. Re:Exactly by tburkhol · · Score: 2

      This, and studies like it, are used to impose diversity on groups that would otherwise not have it, whether by intentional exclusion or by unintentional "doesn't fit the organizational culture." It's not surprising to me that groups which are spontaneously diverse are productive, and I'm perfectly happy to go with the 'open minds accept diverse solutions and diverse people' argument. The question that interests me is whether you can impose social diversity on a group, force them to open their minds, and subsequently become more productive.

      I can certainly see where putting a person of color, or a woman, in a group of racist, misogynist bigots would disrupt their happy groupthink and break up their productivity. Regardless of whether that productivity started out a little lower than an equivalent group of non bigots.

    2. Re:Exactly by jeffmeden · · Score: 1

      This, and studies like it, are used to impose diversity on groups that would otherwise not have it, whether by intentional exclusion or by unintentional "doesn't fit the organizational culture." It's not surprising to me that groups which are spontaneously diverse are productive, and I'm perfectly happy to go with the 'open minds accept diverse solutions and diverse people' argument. The question that interests me is whether you can impose social diversity on a group, force them to open their minds, and subsequently become more productive.

      I can certainly see where putting a person of color, or a woman, in a group of racist, misogynist bigots would disrupt their happy groupthink and break up their productivity. Regardless of whether that productivity started out a little lower than an equivalent group of non bigots.

      The question that interests me is: if you are employing "a group of racist, misogynist bigots"... whatthefuck? Clan members aren't a protected class. Fire their asses.

  9. an embarrasssment for CHI by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Correlation between productivity and diversity does not mean that increasing diversity increases productivity; correlation is not causation. In fact, at least as plausible is the explanation that big, active projects attract a more diverse developer population.

    A second fundamental flaw with the paper is that it uses an unvalidated measure of "productivity": taking some measurement (commit count here) and calling it "productivity" does't mean it actually measures anything like productivity. "Productivity" under this measure could be achieved simply by different "diverse" groups engaging in battles over commits, while actually slowing down overall development progress.

    Peer review doesn't guarantee that papers or results are correct, but peer review can and should catch such obvious flaws in a paper and result in rejection. The fact that CHI let this paper in casts fundamental doubt on whether CHI should be taken seriously as a scientific conference.

  10. Less chit-chat? by boristdog · · Score: 1

    Perhaps with a diverse team there is less shared extracurricular interest to chat about, so meetings tend to be more focused on the subject at hand.

    Just a theory, not even a really good one.

    1. Re:Less chit-chat? by halivar · · Score: 1

      Anecdotes aren't evidence, but they are data: every team I've been on where there is camaraderie and extracurricular activities and discussions was more productive than those where interaction was strictly business. Any sufficiently large project relies on successful communication to succeed, and having a good social dynamic is the best way to foster a team attitude that enables such communication. Also, teammates are more likely to root for, and push each other to success. A bad or missing social dynamic correlates (IMHXP) to office politics and under-bus-throwing.

  11. Re:SJW Wochenschau by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    There sure are a lot of misogynists on Slashdot these days. Anyone who derps about "social justice warriors" can easily be ignored as a wingnut dead-ender.

  12. Re:Divershitty by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Don't worry, we accept you for who you are, and we respect your grammar deficiencies that make you special.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  13. Re:SJW Wochenschau by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Translation:

    Anyone who disagrees with me can be ignored since I am better than them.

  14. To save you the click by 31eq · · Score: 1

    By "tenure" they mean experience. They don't say why they didn't call it "experience".

  15. Re:Makes you wonder by nukenerd · · Score: 1

    Not to mention the massive advances of the Industrial Revolution, continuing through the technical advances of the 19th and the first two-thirds of the 20th. Since then things have become pretty lame in the West, which now largely spends its time and money navel gazing, and wondering whether it is being politically correct enough. Which is why China and India are now getting ahead of the West, having no such distractions.

    These things are to do with fashion. Currently, "diversity" is in fashion in the West, and whatever is in fashion is likely to attract brighter, younger people. If homogeneity were in fashion, that would attract brighter people. As a historical example, early medieval monasteries, about as homogeneous as communities could get (at the time) attracted the brightest young men. That is because they were in fashion at the time; and even if you did not want actually want to join one, you sponsored one if you were rich enough. The monks wanted to get away from the bustling, hedonistic, "vibrant", "diverse" society outside, which they saw as a world that would not last much longer, and was descending to Hell. Of couse, by the late middle ages many of the monks had become "diverse" and "vibrant" themselves, meaning that they had turned some monasteries into bawdy houses and drinking dens. One reason why Henry VIII could dissolve them.

    The fashion for diversity might soon be over however, now that people are beginning to see how it works in practice, especially recently.