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Davos 2015: Less Innovation, More Regulation, More Unrest. Run Away!

Freshly Exhumed writes: Growing income inequality was one of the top four issues at the 2015 World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, Switzerland, ranking alongside European adoption of quantitative easing and geopolitical concerns. Felix Salmon, senior editor at Fusion, said there was a consensus that global inequality is getting worse, fueling overriding pessimism at the gathering. The result, he said, could be that the next big revolution will be in regulation rather than innovation. With growing inequality and the civil unrest from Ferguson and the Occupy protests fresh in people's mind, the world's super rich are already preparing for the consequences. At a packed session, former hedge fund director Robert Johnson revealed that worried hedge fund managers were already planning their escapes. "I know hedge fund managers all over the world who are buying airstrips and farms in places like New Zealand because they think they need a getaway," he said. Looking at studies like NASA's HANDY and by KPMG, the UK Government Office of Science, and others, Dr Nafeez Ahmed, executive director of the Institute for Policy Research & Development, warns that the convergence of food, water and energy crises could create a "perfect storm" within about fifteen years.

24 of 339 comments (clear)

  1. Regulation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Now that they've got theirs, it's fine if regulations hold back everyone else.

    1. Re:Regulation? by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Now that they've got theirs, it's fine if regulations hold back everyone else.

      I have nothing against people being rich, if they got there honestly and without coercion. Government lobbying, for example, is one form of coercion because it influences regulation of others via money.

      But let's face it: most of them did not get there quite honestly or without resorting to coercion. And in fact, regulations helped to get them there. Not only is that obvious on its face, you can see it in the statistics: the more "statist" and regulatory governments have been, the less well economies have done and the more income inequality we've seen.

      Now they're proposing to try to fix the problem they created, by doing more of what created it. Typical government idiocy.

      And as for "unrest", they aren't going to be able to regulate that away. On the contrary: at least here in the U.S., if they don't start lightening up on Federal regulation, they're going to see far worse problems and more unrest than they have so far.

    2. Re: Regulation? by cyber-vandal · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The greatest income inequality in the developed world can be found in probably the least statist country, the US.

    3. Re:Regulation? by dywolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      How do you possess these completely opposing thoughts at the same time?
      I swear you are a textbook example of doublethink.

      You start off good, then you say things like "the more "statist" and regulatory governments have been, the less well economies have done and the more income inequality we've seen" or " if they don't start lightening up on Federal regulation, they're going to see far worse problems and more unrest than they have so far".

      The sheer idiocy and blindness required to actually believe this things while at the same time acknowledging that inequality is a problem and talk about holding the rich responsible for rigging the system is staggering.

      You are seriously blaming the government and regulation for the inequality we see, and suggesting we do LESS of it?
      You are a moron.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    4. Re: Regulation? by dywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Oh BS.

      No, not all tech companies are from the US or originated here. Not even close.

      Middle class incomes are higher in Canada.
      Purchasing power parity is higher in Europe.
      Standards of living are higher as well.
      Health standards are higher.
      And inequality is lower.
      People are happier, work less, earn as much, and yet as just as productive as US workers.

      And then you even make the "well the poor have microwaves, so therefore they aren't poor" argument.
      Sheer idiocy.

      Essentially, you don't know what F you're talking about.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    5. Re: Regulation? by dywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You fool.

      That chart disproves your entire stance.

      You may be technically correct that the US is "not #1".
      But if you actually looked at, and understood that chart,
      you'd have noticed that the only country with more inequality than the US is Chile.

      The US is #2 on that chart.

      The chart is sorted according to the pre-tax numbers, but its the after tax numbers that matter.

      Inequality may start out higher in other countries thanks to old (seriously old) money, but thanks to their redistributionist policies, actual inequality is lower, and everyone lives more equality, with better healthcare, working conditions, benefits, standard/quality of living, and overall better access to and representation in the market.

      So the point that the chart then makes is that redistribution works.
      The chart you provided therefore undercuts your own argument and disproves your point.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    6. Re: Regulation? by dywolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

      and if you'd have bothered to read the article, the author even makes that point:

      the U.S. had the second-highest level of inequality, behind only Chile.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    7. Re:Regulation? by deadweight · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Is this a standard Fox/Rand template? Every place with more government has more of this problem (easily proved to be not true in 5 minutes), so the obvious solution is to have less government (also easily proved in about 3 minutes). Are you all utterly impervious to reality?

    8. Re:Regulation? by whitroth · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This is insightful? I suppose, if you're a libertarian.

      Reality check: in the US, Congress almost *never*, sitting around in the room, decides, "hey, let's make a new regulation, we ain't doin' anything else anyway, and we need to look like we're working." This seems to be what the poster I'm replying to thinks.

      Let's see: St. Ronnie and the Republicans push through banking and s&l "reform", and cut the budget for the regulators. Several years later, the S&L disaster, of which, according to the papers at the time, 30% was internal, white collar crime.
      Deregulate telecoms*, and several years later, the tech bubble bursts, wiping out many retirement investments, and causing a recession.

      Bush & co cut regulation of banking and stocks; and we get the current Lesser Depression.

      Anyone else notice a pattern here? Sort of like less regulation and regulators, and the majority of us get screwed, and loose money, while the top 1% keep going up?

      And I *do* have something against "people being rich". How 'bout we just have a 100% tax on all wealth above $1G? Or maybe above $500M? What', a hundred million dollars isn't enough incentive, people will just fraudulently get themselves on welfare, and sit back and drink light beer and watch tv? Don't bother talking about job creators, either: they've been getting richer and richer... WHERE ARE THE JOBS? (Other than the ones in Pakistan, and China, and India, and ....).

      *And as for "coercion", is that like, oh, in the mid-nineties, when I worked for Ameritech, and we were ORDERED by our division president to write our Congresscritter and Senators to tell them to support deregulation, *and* he wanted copies of our letters (nice job you got dere, be a shame if somet'in' were to happen' to it)?

                        mark

  2. Big Myth #1 by TrollstonButterbeans · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The rich and powerful run the world. They don't. They react to the world just like everyone else. These guys all have to react to the free market to keep their money. They aren't in the driver's seats and they never were.

    And they do not even control their own assets, those are managed by other people. And when they go to enact their ideas it often ends up like Virgin Galactic.

    Davos is a solipsist beauty show.

    I'm not introducing a class-warfare argument, I'm dismissing the idea of class entirely as a component of change.

    Smart phones, YouTube, Amber Alerts, standardized tests, vaccines, real-time communications, drunk driving laws, civil rights (or whatever your random list of important things in the last 50 years) --- name one that came from a wealthy pompous guy? Maybe some BECAME wealthy pompous guys as a RESULT, but they were not wealthy pompous guys at the time.

    --
    Priest: "Universe from nothing, no laws of physics, sped up time"+ huge discrepancies. Creationism? No. Big Bang Theory
    1. Re:Big Myth #1 by dywolf · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So when the richest 0.1% control fully half of the worlds entire wealth, you don't think have any power, let alone more power than the rest of us?

      Heck, you even think its a free market.
      Hint: it's not; not at their stage of the game.
      You are a fool.

      They crashed the WORLD'S economy.
      Possibly intentionally, as they profited off of the entire ordeal.
      They profited off the toxic loans that drove the housing bubble.
      They profited off the crash.
      They profited off the bailout.
      And then they captured nearly the entire recovery, 95% worth.

      That's why the economy still stinks for most people. It's like if you shove 100 people in a room, and take 100$ from each of them, then give one guy 9500$, and everyone else 5$. That's our crash and recovery in a nutshell.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  3. Escaping only helps you until a war. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 5, Insightful

    A bunch of rich people with no real military protecting them will be like ripe fruit for the picking (as they have been over and over and over for centuries).

    They would really be much better served by being in a functioning healthy country. Give up 10% of their money to taxes and spread it around the population and they will be immeasurably safer.

    But I think their greed just gets the better of them. As it has over and over and over for centuries.

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    1. Re:Escaping only helps you until a war. by paazin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The key here is not a ten percent tax rate but ten percent of wealth.

      I assume the GP was stating this in reference to a suggestion by Thomas Piketty as to what would be a more "just" (in his definition) tax approach to tackle inequality.

  4. "They" is us by DaveAtFraud · · Score: 1, Insightful

    BBC had an interesting factoid on where "the 1%" live and what it takes to be in the 1%. It seems it takes a net worth of around $800K to be in the richest 1% of the world's population and a net worth of only $77K to be in the top 10%. The research was done by Credit Suisse and interpreted and reported by Oxfam with the Beeb boiling it down to the linked factoid.

    Put your pitchforks and torches away mates unless you want to stab yourself with your own pitchfork and then burn down your own castle. "They" is us. Yep, there are a few people with more but a whole lot more people with a whole lot less. And I bet you didn't even know you were "rich."

    Cheers,
    Dave

    --
    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither safety nor liberty.
    Ben
    1. Re:"They" is us by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Time to put the cool-aid down. You are told that so you don't pick the pitchfork up.

      You are NOT a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. You are working class and will always be working class.

    2. Re:"They" is us by Pi1grim · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Heh, that's right, throw in whone countries, that are poorer than an average US citizen to dilute the statistics. When people talk about 1% they talk about 1% in their country. That's where the inequality strikes, because governance is done within that country and ability to influence the outcomes of political struggles is dependent on the resources one has.

    3. Re:"They" is us by roman_mir · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You do realise that there is nothing wrong with being a 'working class'? There is also nothing wrong with being a billionaire.

      If your first reaction to somebody who is wealthier than you is a 'pitchfork', then maybe the problem is you.

    4. Re:"They" is us by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The only problem is when working class delude themselves into thinking they are not working class and vote for people who piss on the working class from great height.

    5. Re:"They" is us by houghi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      For the Billionaire, it depends on how you got there. By itself it means nothing, but if you got it over the backs of others, then yes, that is a problem.

      If you scam people and then get money from the government if your scam fails, you are a problem. If you buy out the government and get laws that favor you, but hurt all the rest, then you are a problem. If you are a shareholder in a company and you have millions your staff needs food coupons to survive, you are a problem.

      Everybody knows that by just working hard, you won't become a billionaire. Perhaps a millionaire, but not a billionaire.

      And sure, what they did might all be legal. But morality has nothing to do with legality.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  5. Re:I feel sorry for rich people, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If you think the Democrats would cause any significant problems for their super rich patrons, you are a fool. Both parties are puppets that dance to the tune their pipers play, and we pay the price.

  6. No we are not them. Re:"They" is us by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Insightful
    First we need to distinguish Financial Wealth from Net worth. FW = NW - (owner occupied homes + jewelry + cars + collectible and other personal valuables). Second 800K is for the world. For USA as of 2013 the number is 5 million according to IRS and 8 million according to the Feds.

    A wealth manager for very wealthy makes a distinction between top 1% and top 0.5% (8 million according to IRS and 15 million according to the Feds). The top 0.5% is reached only by people with inherited wealth, or very lucky people who get to top 5% by smartness and hardwork, and end up in 0.5% due to good fortune, or stock options. Professionals, doctors, lawyers, accountants are very unlikely to reach top 0.5%, and increasing not even likely to reach top 1%. He used to see very successful professionals retiring in top 1%. But no longer.

    He calculates that a person starting at low end of 1% by income for that age group, and staying at the same band (99% dividing line by income) all his/her working life will NOT end up in top 1% by financial wealth. A persons starting in the low end of 1% by wealth, will stay there if he/she draws the same amount of money our 1% by income professional, and might go up in scale.

    In USA money earned by blood, sweat, tears and brains (wages, earned income) is taxed at much higher rate than money earned by money (capital gains, carried interest, qualified dividends, etc). This is the root cause of the inequality. For 30 years, since Reagan, the US Govt has been coddling the super rich by funneling all tax relief to them. They turned their back to the USA, invested all the savings in low wage countries to maximize their profits.

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  7. Re:We don't all live in the USA. by swb · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I think the problem is you can't pack up a whole economy and move it.

    If your wealth is dependent on the US domestic economy and it tanks because of civil unrest, a lot of wealthy people will be unwealthy before they can even reconsider relocating.

    There's also the question of "what is money?" and are you really rich still if you have to convert your money to another currency with a different local buying power, especially if your native currency dives or is sinking when you try to convert it.

    There's also the question of competition for safe overseas havens; if the availability is limited, you're now competing with just the rich, so unless you're elite rich, you may lose out altogether.

    And what kind of haven are you expecting? A self-sustaining kind of pre-20th century British estate of farms and light industry? At the end of the day it sounds like a mash-up of a Ralph Lauren ad with survivalism.

  8. Regulation what a fucking joke by DarkOx · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Regulation IS the problem. Had we done the principled thing and let AIG and Goldman burn when the time came it would have taken lots of big finance with it. There would have been plenty of churn as far as just who the 1% are. I would even guess some of them would have been left with less than nothing.

    Oh but they would still have all kinds of physical property and hard assets. Yes but assets sometimes have a funny way of turning into liabilities when you don't have the case flow to manage them properly. Just imagine if you can't pay your home owners policy on your Mansion you can still get sued when someone breaks their leg while trespassing.

    These guys are where they are entirely because of governments and regulation. Income inequality is greater than what existed in the gilded age! These levels of inequality are made possible by regulation and free market impediments, not for lack of them.

    --
    Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
  9. Re:I feel sorry for rich people, by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1, Insightful

    If you think the Democrats would cause any significant problems for their super rich patrons, you are a fool.

    Except the last time the Dems controlled congress, they passed a health care reform law that transferred billions of dollars from the rich to the poor. They also tried to raise capital gains taxes, which would hit the super rich hard.

    Both parties are puppets that dance to the tune their pipers play, and we pay the price.

    The parties have clearly different agendas. I know it is popular on Slashdot to say we are all just helpless sheep, controlled by the strings pulled by the "Super Rich" Illuminati or Elders of Zion, or whatever, but that is nonsense.