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Opera Founder Is Back, WIth a Feature-Heavy, Chromium-Based Browser
New submitter cdysthe writes Almost two years ago, the Norwegian browser firm Opera ripped out the guts of its product and adopted the more standard WebKit and Chromium technologies, essentially making it more like rivals Chrome and Safari. But it wasn't just Opera's innards that changed; the browser also became more streamlined and perhaps less geeky. Many Opera fans were deeply displeased at the loss of what they saw as key differentiating functionality. So now Jon von Tetzchner, the man who founded Opera and who would probably never have allowed those drastic feature changes, is back to serve this hard core with a new browser called Vivaldi. The project's front page links to downloads of a technical preview, available for Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows. Firefox users who likewise prefer a browser with more rather than fewer features (but otherwise want to stick with Firefox) might also
consider SeaMonkey, which bundles not just a browser but email, newsgroup client and feed reader, HTML editor, IRC chat and web development tools.
Google will always pay a browser developer to keep not block their advertising hooks. If someone just made a good browser with integrated privacy features, Google et al would lose tens of billions per year in ad revenue.
Opera had a superb rendering engine. I wish they'd release it as open source, so we can have a bit of variety, instead of all these webkits and one gecko [1] and one trident.
[1]: We used to have Camino but Mozilla in its great wisdom decided to make Gecko un-embeddable.
Yep, Opera used to be the best, until they destroyed it. When they did, I stopped using it. Now this is really good news!
This guide is definitive. Reality is frequently inacurate. (from THHGTTG)
While I applaud the founder for this move, I can't help but wonder what could have been if these efforts had been put toward producing a truly MS Office replacement.
I mean, for every office product, there would be a true open standards [drop-in] product.
But right now, all I see are what some may call "me too" browsers, all competing for the little attention they can get among so many. Sad!
If I wanted chrome I'd get srware iron. When I want Opera I want Opera.
http://www.palemoon.org/
It feels "less quirky" than Seamonkey, and some of the Extensions that I have used for years ( Like Tree Style Tab) work with PaleMoon while they don't in Seamonkey.
And with the "Firefox 3 Theme for Firefox 4+ Reloaded" I finally feel at home again on the Internet.
As the browser is based on open source chromium,
is the source for this chromium fork available, or has Opera not learned the lesson yet?
c'mon guys...we *have* to start coming up with better names for products...
"Vivaldi"
sounds like a lesser composer from Mozart's time
or a corrupt Roman proconsul in the early CE
vivaldi could definitely be the name of a new blood thinner drug from Pfizer
damn it...seriously....'vivaldi'
don't tell me what it means b/c i don't care and neither does anyone else...it's a Dumb Name
Thank you Dave Raggett
personally i like opera over mozila firfox becos firefox stuck some time and when we open many tabs it is just stoped for few seconds. hope after this opera team will do great work again
Well keep a close watch on this one.
From the looks of things, they bought back the side bar, bookmarks and even email client. If so, I might just switch to it after switching to firefox+lots of extensions to make it look and feel like the Opera of old, when Opera went to sh*t after going chronium.
And tastes good too.
Netscape is still the best browser by far, with a familiar look and everything. The page source viewer is wonderful. Even the web page composer isn't too shabby. It has always been that way.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
LOL ... 1997 called, they want their browser back.
More seriously, where does Opera/this Vivaldi thing fall on the privacy end of the spectrum? Is it ad supported? Is it full of crapware?
If it isn't secure or trustworthy, WTF is the point? The last I saw anything from Opera was an Opera mini ... and it seemed to be quite the opposite of a privacy oriented browser, precisely because it seemed full of ads.
I want the "advertisers and sponsors go to hell" browser, do we have that?
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Webkit or not, about as much as I want TCP by pidgin.
The UI is very bare, and it has no extensions (xmarks, lastpass) that I absolutely need in a browser. Pass.
While this might eventually replace Firefox on Windows for me, it won't replace Safari on OS X. Once it has extensions support (hopefully supporting Chrome extensions), I'll give it a serious look. For now, I can't live without 1Password (not to mention Block and a couple others).
If you can't convince them, convict them.
Interesting that the Ubuntu/Debian .deb file is ONLY for 64 bit systems. No 32 bits for us dinosaurs.
Understanding the scope of the problem is the first step on the path to true panic.
Headline: Opera Founder Is Back, WIth a Feature-Heavy, Chromium-Based Browser
But a few lines below, it goes on to say: "Many Opera fans were deeply displeased at the loss of what they saw as key differentiating functionality. So now Jon von Tetzchner, the man who founded Opera and who would probably never have allowed those drastic feature changes, is back to serve this hard core with a new browser called Vivaldi."
So what is this new browser - a webkit based one like Chromium, or one based on Blink/V8?
the name actually matters
you base all kinds of choices based on product names...
the name is part of the design...when you don't have any other information, design choices can indicate quality
is Vivaldi intended for a small group of developers only? no? you want non-developers to use it?
the name is not some completely abstract factor
Thank you Dave Raggett
does it have something to do with the fact that the word 'suite' is used in both programming and in classical music?
Thank you Dave Raggett
might also consider SeaMonkey, which bundles not just a browser but email, newsgroup client and feed reader, HTML editor, IRC chat and web development tools.
GNU/Emacs has had these features and more for 25 years.
you seriously don't know who Vivaldi was, and you think everybody else is as proudly ignorant as you are.
even if you know who Vivaldi is, it's still a Dumb Name, that's my point...***most users will not get the reference***...just because it has an actual meaning, it doesn't mean it's a good name
'Bluetooth' is a Dumb Name
i sell handmade electronics in my spare time, which use 'bluetooth'...i have to explain *over and over* how 'bluetooth' is similar to wifi to my customers
the bottom line is, even if people know Vivaldi wrote a a well known piece of music with 4 suites like the program (get it), just like Bluetooth has it's own quirky/unique name origin story, **they both just confuse end users**
are you trying to make your program *actual* abstract art? like a Jackson Pollack painting?
unless that's your actual goal, you need to make a **little more** effort to name the thing something less esoteric...i'm not saying dumb it down, i'm seriously against dumbing things down....this is different
i hope that Vivaldi is a great success and i'm sure the developers are great, but this is what i'm commenting about...abstract wacky quirky names need to go...i'm not saying take it to the other extreme, but go with something a bit closer to describing what the function is
Thank you Dave Raggett
It feels like a fast version of Chome. But I don't have all the cache filled in the same way so probably not a fair test. But so far not a problem with it. Have used it on facebook game that requires flash 15, (won't work with firefox) was flawless.
Not found a single gotcha so far
The original dream we hardcore Opera users had was replacing the Presto engine with Blink, but wrapping it with the feature-full Opera interface experience. That was more a pipe dream. Vivaldi already has more of the old Opera features than the new one does. It's a technology preview, so it's got a lot of rough edges, but the spirit of the old Opera is there.
Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
I suggest anyone interested in Opera 12 or Vivaldi check out Otter Browser: http://otter-browser.org/
It's a FOSS 1:1 feature clone of Opera 12 with interchangeable rendering engines. While it probably won't develop as quickly as Vivaldi, it's pretty stable last time I used it. You also don't have to worry about them pulling the rug out from under you like Opera did, because it's FOSS.
Its funny that this is even happening considering so few actually use Opera in the first place. I mean a break down by Country I doubt but a few thousand even use it. Some places it does not even register enough to show up in a statistic. The one person I know that even has Opera installed was actually happy for the less bloated feature riddled version based on WebKit. Still, I am sure some liked the built in Mail app and some other features nobody else offers. Although I think pretty Firefox can replicate anything with add ons. I do remember a time when I liked a multi function browser. To each his own I guess, just not sure how anyone could make money on a browser with such a small user base.
Windows was the Federal Government's desktop OS of choice...for millions of desks...all over the world
That level of automatic penetration of the market is absolutely invaluable.
It's very easy to see how M$ leveraged their huge US contracts...it's much easier to have your home OS be the same as your work OS.
That and bundling deals with major PC makers...if you were using computers in that era you should remember all this
Thank you Dave Raggett
I'm quite puzzled about the plug for SeaMonkey because it's not a new project. SeaMonkey is the successor of the original Netscape/Mozilla browser suite and it was the flagship product of Mozilla then. Firefox (originally named Phoenix then Firebird) was created in response to the bloat of Mozilla.
I'm relying only on my memory and didn't double check the facts so I may be wrong but I feel the OP seems to be too young to know this which is a bit shocking because I'm just 29.
Either that's feature bloat for a Web browser or it's also missing an image editor. I'm not sure which.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
Eric Schmidt, is that you?
What name do you propose for Bluetooth?
i don't have all the answers, but let's look at a reverse case...let's look at a *good name choice*
WiMax is a mostly-defunct next generation wireless protocol. If you did network engineering you prob have heard of it...
It is similar to Bluetooth in that way.
WiFi was, to users, something familiar...they chose to name the **next generation** wireless tech "WiMax"
it's not perfect either, but it has the word "max" in it, which is marketable as WiMax was to be a 1Gbit protocol
also, it ***connects to user's a priori knowledge***....
it's LOGICAL, MARKETABLE, AND CONNECTS WITH USERS CURRENT KNOWLEDGE
Bluetooth is just a random word to people! Even longtime network engineers I know had no idea where the name came from.
That's the difference.
Thank you Dave Raggett
not if you don't have guaranteed government contracts it doesn't!
unless you have already become rich and have market penetration, the name **obviously** matters
Thank you Dave Raggett
You can get a few of the problematic extensions to install and work on SeaMonkey using the Firefox & Thunderbird Add-on Converter for SeaMonkey. Not all of the Firefox and Thunderbird extensions can be converted, but it certainly expands the frontiers.
VI or DIE beyotch!
Saying that IE is a serious browser (based on users) is like saying McDonald's has the world's best french fries (based on sales)*
*McDonald's did actually claim this at one time.
Chrome sucks big time.
On my lowly Atom, it sucks all the CPU time it can get.
And what is it with so many sodding separate processes just to run a browser?
Binned.
A goddamned side panel. So how was that too difficult eh Opera?
Bookmarks are more functional than Opera 20-whatever. Side tabs are too big, but that will be fixed. Email client to come.
I am thoroughly stoked! I saw mention of a browser about a year ago, but never heard anything since and never thought much more about it.
1) Why is Google the default search engine, given their evil ways?
2) Why isn't Ixquick included as a search engine? N.B. Startpage uses a Google cookie; Ixquick doesn't
3) Opening page after installation informs "Your connection is not private. Attackers might be trying to steal your information from vivaldi.com" Sheesh.
4) "News" (under Bookmarks) includes liberal sites only. The exclusion of for example Drudge Report and Fox News shows your political bias and lack of tolerance for opposing views; pathetic.
From what I remember of what one of the Devs said, part of Opera's layout engine was 16-bit and this caused a lot of rendering issues which had to be hand-fixed.
Allegedly, it was too difficult to rewrite. Additionally, with Google et al writing new standards for the web, it was just too much work to use a non-Chrome rendering engine.
I like uh... Opera 27. I'm not keen on the Look & Feel of Vivaldi so far but if they can make it flexible enough to do want I want (or support Chromium extensions), I'll switch.
I used Opera when it still used Presto. I think it was more just to be different, but when it was gone I missed that alternative to Firefox and Chrome and IE. It rendered pages different, and I thought it was faster than Chrome or Firefox. Whey they announced the switch, I found an older portable version and use it occasionally.
Now to me its just another Chromium-based browser. And Vivaldi will be just another to add to the pile.
Its like the IE front ends that I kept switching between for a while, like with Maxthon and Avant. There are a bunch still out there, many often trying to cater to a certain niche.
Like Iron or Comodo Dragon for privacy or security.
Or SlimBoat or SlimJet for smaller/faster browsers.
I may install it to see how it runs and acts, but I probably will just stick with plain Chrome.
typing /. into the URL field takes you to slashdot.org.
I installed both the Windows and OS X version, and it looks pretty good (aside from having that disgusting "page flattened" look of every fad-chasing program ever since Windows Metro and OS X Yosemite). However, I tried to search for a specific word in text, and the prediction pre-empted user input (which violates the trust of user input always being respected). I tried to reproduce this a minute ago on the slashdot.org front page, and it couldn't find the word I was typing in, despite me looking straight at it. That's a whole other flavor of broken, so I'm guessing that the "Find" functionality needs to go back in the oven.
(I reproduced the text prediction bug just now; the cursor seems to jump back on a prediction hit, but the lag between the start and end of the jumpback seems to be dependent on the complexity of the rendered page; perhaps it's Javascript complexity. This is not good, because heavier pages will always exist, and will always behave slower.)
To its credit, when you find a specific word, it will highlight its location in the scroll bar on the right. That's really cool.
One other thing that Vivaldi so desperately needs is tighter control on content. These days, browsing on websites is a nightmare of cross-domain Javascript scripts, to the point where users are no longer rendering a document, so much as involuntarily debugging a Javascript programming mess. (NoScript listed 76 blocked scripts when I went to an article from The Verge; Vox loves them some web fonts and crazy canvas effects.) Back in the day, Opera gave the user a lot of control on how to parse CSS, whether to play embedded sound (the old "BGSOUND" tag), whether to load images, and so on. Vivaldi has the "Block images" switch (but unfortunately forces a page reload when its state changes; IMO it should not force a page reload, but should instead leave loaded images cached, or hide all images). Vivaldi could use a modern CSS hackery option akin to Stylish, but I'd really love to see something like NoScript used instead. And of course there's add-on selective block, but hopefully that will become less of a problem once I uninstall Flash.
Also, I'd love to see a themes / skin option, complete with a few selections of "anti-flattened" themes, for those of us who don't want to follow along with the design diatribes of Jony Ive or Julie Larson-Green. I like drop shadows and 3D raised elements; they help me locate controls in the window. I'd like to see a Vivaldi theme with 3D raised buttons, and with an option to disable all slide / fade animations (because those animations are a waste of time IMO).
That said, it's really good to see a proper successor to Opera, instead of that Chrome-clone joke that I unfortunately installed under the pretense of it being called "Opera". THAT browser is NOT Opera; Vivaldi is the true Opera.
"Ancillary does not mean you get to rule the world." --U.S. Circuit Judge Harry Edwards, speaking to the FCC's lawyer
The common user has no idea what they are missing/loosing... Find me a browser that gives these features back:
easy "Content Blocking", "Site Preferences" to control scripting, plugins, and more across each domain.. I use this regularly...
Keyboard, mouse custom controls...
I run Opera 10.10 as my main browser STILL... IT takes a fraction of the resources of Chrome and firefox(have to run them on 'some sites' occasionally). Now that sites(mostly google/MS tech) have stopped actively trying to sabotage opera, I find things tend to be more compatible today than a few years ago; but I'm sure it won't last long...
IE is decent utility browser. Nothing to write home about, but then that's what Microsoft does all the time, and still pleases its users in their needs. Can't comment from standards compliance viewpoint though, as "improving standards" is certain awful another of their rudiment deeds.
Servant of karma
that a web browser developer would know how to make a web page that would work with javascript disabled... but NOOOOOO.
what. the. fuck.
the HTML5-based UI allows the browser to rather neatly adopt the color scheme for the page being visited
I see a big security problem there. A web page should never be able to change the appearance of the browser chrome.
McDonalds has better french fries than most of their competitors.
'World's Best' is a pretty hard standard in any category for anything.
Why is Seamonkey mentioned here? It's not a lot more than Firefox and Thunderbird brought together, but with more conservative interface (which is a big improvement over recent Firefox's crap look, actually).
Finally it is possible to keep notes again unlike opera blink... I'm switching to vivaldi as soon as the bookmarks bar is back :)
can't STAND chrome's debugger, and how it displays the css so you can find the root parent style that contains the buggering thing you're trying to fix. Dragonfly got it right and did it right and I miss it terribly.
I used opera for years, was stuck with version 12, but now new Opera got most of the features of the old one, e.g. one key shortcuts, MRU tab switching, pinned tabs. The only thing that I miss in new Opera is "fit to width" feature.