Slashdot Mirror


Most Americans Support Government Action On Climate Change

mdsolar points out this report in the NY Times: An overwhelming majority of the American public, including nearly half of Republicans, support government action to curb global warming, according to a poll conducted by The New York Times, Stanford University and the nonpartisan environmental research group Resources for the Future. In a finding that could have implications for the 2016 presidential campaign, the poll also found that two-thirds of Americans say they are more likely to vote for political candidates who campaign on fighting climate change. They are less likely to vote for candidates who question or deny the science of human-caused global warming.

Among Republicans, 48 percent said they are more likely to vote for a candidate who supports fighting climate change, a result that Jon A. Krosnick, a professor of political science at Stanford University and an author of the survey, called "the most powerful finding" in the poll. Many Republican candidates either question the science of climate change or do not publicly address the issue.

28 of 458 comments (clear)

  1. "Support" != actually sacrifice for by NotDrWho · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Ask them what they willing to actually SACRIFICE to fix it and I bet you'll get a very different answer.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    1. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by AqD · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes? I'm willing to sacrifice all others to fix it.

    2. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by TWX · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's the sacrifice though? Having cars that either get really excellent fuel economy or run on battery power? Forcing electrical utilities to switch to separate billing for grid-tie and power consumption, so that customers that want to put solar panels on their roofs aren't shafted in order to have overnight electrical service from base-load power? Mandating emissions inspections based on original standards at the time of manufacture on all vehicles newer than 30 years, so that gross-polluting vehicles that are not running right are either fixed or taken off the road?

      Most of these things don't have all that much cost, and for some of them, they're a cost that the individual should have borne anyway.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by sumdumass · · Score: 4, Insightful

      lol.. What's the sacrifice you ask then say taking vehicles off the road as if it does not deprive anyone of anything. The problem is all the rest cost money. It costs more money than the current model. So when you raise prices, people will have less. This less means they will sacrifice something- whether it is savings, stability in electric power, a car or whatever. It will only make the world more expensive and people will have to do without. You make it sound like you can just speak it into existence and there is no repercussions. There are and there will be.

    4. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by TWX · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If a vehicle is in poor repair then it shouldn't be on the road in the first place.

      Technically it's already federal law, but the states are allowed to not enforce depending on their position with the EPA. That should change.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    5. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Proof that Liberals don't care about the poor. And why I keep saying ALL Taxes are regressive. Thanks!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    6. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by SydShamino · · Score: 1, Insightful

      >> So you would rather put a burden on the poor who can't afford to fix their cars or buy newer ones??

      Just because you're poor doesn't mean you have the right to pollute more than anyone else. The government could subsidize fixing the car, or the poor could instead try out subsidized public transportation, or the government could subsidize newer, more efficient cars. We can call it Cash for Clunkers.

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    7. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by SydShamino · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think a large percentage of baby boomers are starting to realize that they can never retire...

      --
      It doesn't hurt to be nice.
    8. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by something_wicked_thi · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Isn't it funny* how people who have a preexisting belief that government regulation is bad and takes away your freedom also believe that something that seems insoluble without government action isn't real despite overwhelming evidence?

      * And by funny, I mean entirely expected and unsurprising.

    9. Re: "Support" != actually sacrifice for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Let me call you a stupid cunt on behalf of the American majority who does not hold a $150,000 silicon valley job but has to get by on $50,000 if they live in CA and a whole, whole lot less than that elsewhere in the US. You are very much likely to be sitting in a cubicle in the California bay area right now typing shit like this. I will just assume you are and so I invite you this weekend to fucking leave your bubble, get into your car and drive down 99 and tell everybody from Modesto to Bakersfield they need to get a new car and you're not paying for it. The people outside the special economic zone that is the bay area are the real America, why don't you go and tell them straight up in person they are a bunch of losers and you are "done paying" for their asses. I make a 150K a year in CA and I know better than to feel superior to people that are not as fortunate as I am. In the European socialist shithole I come from aka Germany, people like you and me make EUR 65K BEFORE commie taxes and live in crummy apartments. I am thankful I don't have to live like that anymore and I asshole despite doing the same job I do there as over here can't just go and buy a new car in glorious Deutschland. So again: Fuck off.

    10. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you want to use Food Stamps as evidence of liberal success, I think you have it. More people are on Food Stamps than ever before, SUCCESS!!!!

      Oh, and by your version of reality, conservatives hate bears!
      http://www.niagarafallsreporte...

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    11. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "revenue-neutral carbon tax would be quite progressive"

      That is impossible. First off, Government always gets its cut of the pie, so there is no such thing as "revenue-neutral" (first lie). Second, all taxes are regressive, as poor people cannot avoid them as well as rich people can.

      And only liberals figure that taxing something is a right of government, and the "go to" game-plan for all progressive "solutions".

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    12. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It will only make the world more expensive and people will have to do without.

      I agree that in the short term an economy has a limited total productive capacity.

      So, if an economy is at full capacity, then, in the short term, if the economy produces more solutions to global warming then it will have to produce less of something else. But that something else could be luxury watches and designer handbags.

      And it's not at all clear that absolutely all economies are at full capacity. If an economy has a bunch of scientists sitting around doing nothing because they can't find work - then paying them to solve global warming may be better than paying them welfare.

      Now, you'd probably like to cut welfare so the scientists would be forced to work in sweat shops making designer handbags in order to avoid starvation. But, me, I'd rather take the money that the rich people were going to spend on the designer handbags and instead put the scientists to work solving global warming.

      More broadly, there are huge problems in the world that desperately need solving. And there's lots of smart people that would love to have jobs solving those problems. But the people who control the world's economy (i.e. the rich people) would rather have the world's economy produce frivolous luxury items.

    13. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by meglon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually, liberals do want to pay for government programs... that's WHY democrats have a more favorable view of taxes; as Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr said: "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."

      Conservatives, on the other hand, don't want to pay for government. They consistently enact policies and tax cuts that hamper, disrupt, and destroy the machinations of a civilized society, while shirking the responsibility to pay for government, and foisting it onto future generations.... usually all the while complaining that government doesn't work.

      Increase taxes, fixing the corporate tax system, and making cuts to our massively bloated military are positions that liberals take, and conservatives hate. The problem isn't with liberals here, it's with conservatives that, once again, hate government.

      As for your actual debt bullshit, which is what it is, you're citing a radical conservative who want's to do away with medicaid, medicare, and health exchanges, and replace them all with vouchers; supports requiring banks and financial institutions to all be changed so they have no liability for the financial vehicles they sell; and eliminate the entire tax structure and replace it with the most regressive form of taxation in the misnamed "fair tax" flat tax system, where the poorest people are the most heavily taxed.

      What this individual does is hype the "debt they're keeping secret" by trying to get people who don't understand basic (VERY BASIC) accounting to think it's all some sort of conspiracy. It's not; he's preying on the ignorance of those he talks to, most of whom probably already hate the government, and filling their heads with bullshit. In the most basic terms, there's two types of accounting for money you'd decided to spend: as you spend it, or all of it at once when you decide to spend it. BOTH are legitimate accounting methods. In the US, we account for it as we spend it. What this guy is saying is that we should be accounting for ALL of it the second we decide to spend it.

      Why we don't do it his way: As an example, in 1996 Lockheed and Boeing were given contracts to produce concepts that were the first phase of the F-35 program. That's 1.5 billion dollars. If we had to account for the total cost of the F-35 program, as in HAVE THAT MONEY IN THE BANK, we'd have needed almost a trillion dollars right from the get go. Every time that the program is re-assessed, it's cost goes up... that would mean that every time those 100's of billions it's projected cost went up, we'd have to come up with RIGHT THEN. Nothing would ever get done, nothing would ever get started, because while that project might get underway for a smaller amount every year for a decade, coming up with that entire decades cost before anything was even started, and packing it away never to be touched, would be a massive waste of resources.

      If you don't think i'm right, go rent an apartment. Figure out how many years you're going to be living there, then pay ALL those monthly rental costs up front. Or how about your electric bill. Sit down, figure out how much electricity costs you this last year... now figure out how long you're going to be alive and pay the electric company for all that electricity you're gong to use in your lifetime RIGHT NOW. That is as absurd as what this Kotlikoff's schtick is.

      The biggest generational theft ever to happen is the tax cuts conservatives have enacted over the last 35 years that have caused the national debt to explode.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    14. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > and I just don't give two shits about tanning beds, etc

      Of course not. Because you don't approve of those things. Liberals are all "diverisity and tolerance" unless they disagree with them, then they're all "Achtung! Verboten!"

      Freedom for all means freedom even for those people you disagree with, and for those people who do things you don't like.

    15. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by Ichijo · · Score: 1, Insightful

      I'm just saying that if you make a bunch of projections to prove something, and the one that proves it the least is 20% off, you can't claim your projections are good.

      Is it reasonable to expect a model that fits the data perfectly?

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    16. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by sumdumass · · Score: 1, Insightful

      When we become a non free country, you would be able to take whatever you want from the rich, you will be able to demand they do not buy what you deem frivolous luxury items or that anyone produces them. When we become a non free country, you can invent things for scientists to solve.

      But wait, no you cannot because the chances of you being the supreme dictator of this non free country would be about zero. What we will end up with is the same as every single other communist country- an elite few muddled with various levels of corruption and brutal enforcement of their demands to do what they decide is best for you. We may even end up killing thousands if not millions of people in order to make it happen just like in almost every other start of communist ruled countries. You may think, oh noes, couldn't be because this time we will get it right those with more will have less and it will all be unicorns shitting rainbows all over the place, and then they take your Iphone because a nokia flip phone is good enough and everything else is a luxury. Then they take your computer because it wastes electricity and they deemed you do not need it. But hey, that's an ideal world right? Someone making arbitrary decisions about who can purchase what, about who works on what and who can produce what, all based around the whims of someone who doesn't like people with more money than them.

    17. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by thrich81 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This is going to sound harsher than intended, but ... from younger days I already have owned a couple of Trans-Ams, Corvettes, a factory 455 cubic inch Buick GS Stage 1, 69 Camaro with a L-88 engine swap, big block El Caminos, etc, all big blocks at least 400 CID and they are all crap compared to what you can get for about $30K now in a new (or much less used) Mustang, Camaro, or Challenger. The old cars weren't that fun to drive because no matter how much power the engines made (and it wasn't as much as everyone 'remembers'), the suspensions could not put the power to the road. If you really want to enjoy a ride, go buy a 2015 Mustang GT which will outrun any old muscle car and do it with full emissions equipment, safety equipment and air conditioning. By the way, if you want 500 HP, don't try it with a Pontiac 455 -- that long stroke motor was a POS -- if you have to do it the hard way with 1960's/70's tech, go with a 427/454 Chevrolet, even then the factory race engines(427-L88 and 427-ZL1) were only making about 550 horses with open headers. Oh and those mid-70's Trans-Ams couldn't take all that much horsepower anyway -- their crappy bodies with the partial subframes twisted all up under real torque, especially the T-Top cars. I was a huge muscle car guy and went through the 70's when "government regulations" killed the muscle car, but the cars now are supercars compared to the best from back then and you don't get a lungful of lead, hydrocarbons and CO from behind them. I'm convinced that this would not be the case had the government not forced the automakers to clean up. If cars can be this good and this clean now then there is no excuse for anything else to be dirty either.

    18. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by MillionthMonkey · · Score: 1, Insightful

      This argument again? I'm so sick of having to explain why "Don't feed the bears" != "Don't feed the poor". If you feed bears, they'll learn to nag you and other people for food. If you feed the poor, they'll also learn to nag for the food, but there are good reasons why you'd maybe want a hungry poor person to ask you for food instead of having a bear ask.

      Anyway, regardless of how they feel about bears, conservatives certainly don't like wolves.

    19. Re:"Support" != actually sacrifice for by gunnnnslinger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Congratulations! You figured out subtle bigotry offends intelligent people! Great job, you deserve your smug satisfaction!

  2. Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Leftist news outlet trumpets success in convincing Americans they need to give up more power to the state. The majority agrees, so you should too!

    1. Re:Translation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Yep, the fucking liberal media (and yes I include slashdot in that) is 100% sold on the hoax of global warming and we are fucked for it.

      Remember kids, vote Republican or your job will be the next to fall to the leftist conspiracy.

  3. So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most Americans support government action on labeling food products that contain DNA. These surveys are worthless.

  4. nonpartisan environmental research group by Nutria · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "Nonpartisan" means that Resources For The Future doesn't officially support the Democrat party. Everyone who works there, however, voted Green or for Obama.

    IOW, it's effectively partisan.

    --
    "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
  5. Re:Focus all wrong though by johnlcallaway · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I am not opposed to reducing pollution to a level where I can safely walk outside and breath, and fish are reasonably safe to eat.

    I am opposed to reducing pollution to zero and getting rid of all the modern niceties that cause it ... like this computer that I'm typing this post on and the server that is storing it.

    Everything in between is up for discussion and probably has multiple supporters and detractors somewhere.

    I'll wager that almost no one disagrees that reducing pollution is a good thing.

    The discussion is how much are we willing to pay or give up for how big a reduction.

    --
    I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
  6. Re:most americans are idiots by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Which is supported by the prior Slashdot post about how scientists and the general public are often at opposite sides of things.

    I would venture to say that Americans and scientists are often at opposite sides of things. It is quite fascinating to see how much religious nations like US and Muslim countries oppose scientists.

  7. here are your names by raymorris · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Here are a few names for you. Stanford University professor Paul Ehrlich:
    By the year 2000 the United Kingdom will be simply a small group of impoverished islands, inhabited by some 70 million hungry people"

    United Nations Environmental Program, in 2005:
    "Amid predictions that by 2010 the world will need to cope with as many as 50 million people escaping the effects of creeping environmental deterioration, United Nations University experts say the international community urgently needs to define, recognize and extend support to this new category of refugee."

      Cristina Tirado (University of California) again made the claim of 50 million climate refugees by 2020 at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

    James Hansen headed NASA's Goddard Institute for 30 years before moving to University. In 1988, Hansen was asked by journalist greenhouse effect would affect New York by 2008. ÃoeThe West Side Highway [an elevated freeway] will be under waterà , Hansen said.

    UN IPCC author Michael Oppenheimer was "chief scientist" for the Environmental Defense Fund in 1990. He said that by 1995 global warming will be "desolating the heartlands of North America and Eurasia with horrific drought, causing crop failures and food riots."

    Just for fun, along with all of these climate scientists, let's throw in our favorite leader of the global warming movement, Al Gore. Oppenheimer (above) was also an advisor to Al Gore, who claimed:
        "The entire North Polar ice cap will disappear in five years. Five years is the period of time during which it is now expected to disappear." (The polar ice caps have actually INCREASED since then, significantly).

    United Nations Environmental Program, Director of New York office in 1989:
    Entire nations could be wiped off the face of the earth by rising sea levels if global warming is not reversed by the year 2000

    We're spending $360 billion dollars a year based on these people's predictions - several thousand dollars per family in the US.

    I'm going to repeat once more, it is true that today it is warmer than it was 500 years ago, and much colder than it was 1,000 years ago. So yes, the climate changes in cycles, absolutely. Stanford, Berkeley, and Princeton have just ridiculously exaggerated the effect, while pitching for yet another $10 million grant to continue their work. Are these crazy "warnings" which never come true a bit of a sales a pitch for the grants they're asking for, perhaps?

  8. Re:in one case, a search and replace update by CaptainLard · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As you know, in these institutions updated there materials in the 1970s to early 1980s, from "OMG panic man-made ice age" to "OMG panic global warming"

    Nice myth. The "ice age panic" was one story that made Time magazine at a time when the majority of climate research indicated a warming trend due to human cause CO2 emissions.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
    http://journals.ametsoc.org/do...
    And about 1000 other sources if you google "1970 ice age"

    I'm not going to try to convince you that AGW is a problem we should address (note I said "should be addressed", not panic over). Instead, are you afraid of something if those crazy scientists from your anecdotes get their way and the Fed institutes CO2 mitigation? Gas prices jump to $20/gallon? The government mandates CO2 trackers worn all the time? Economic disaster circa 2008?

    I'll cite the elimination of lead in pretty much everything (no economic catastrophe) and the elimination of CFC's (no economic catastrophe). Also some fun facts on how we got to a point of not worrying about acid rain anymore:

    "In 2007, total SO2 emissions were 8.9 million tons, achieving the program's long term goal ahead of the 2010 statutory deadline.[22]

    The EPA estimates that by 2010, the overall costs of complying with the program for businesses and consumers will be $1 billion to $2 billion a year, only one fourth of what was originally predicted"

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...

    So tell my why addressing CO2 emissions is a bad idea (not that you explicitly stated as much in your comments)