CrunchBang Linux Halts Development

An anonymous reader writes: Philip Newborough, the developer behind CrunchBang Linux, has put an end to work on the distro. CrunchBang was built as a layer on top of Debian using the Openbox window manager that focused on performance and customization. Newborough says the changing landscape of Linux over the past decade has obviated the need for a distro like CrunchBang. "Whilst some things have stayed exactly the same, others have changed beyond all recognition. It's called progress, and for the most part, progress is a good thing. That said, when progress happens, some things get left behind, and for me, CrunchBang is something that I need to leave behind. I'm leaving it behind because I honestly believe that it no longer holds any value, and whilst I could hold on to it for sentimental reasons, I don't believe that would be in the best interest of its users, who would benefit from using vanilla Debian."

Comments

Never heard of it...

[Anonymous Coward]

Number of Linux Distributions Surpasses Number of Users

Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

Before this announcement:

Newbie: "I hear about this Linux thing too. How do I get that?"
Linux Advocate: "Well, you start by choosing from 10,294 confusing distros and dozens of different desktops..."
Newbie: "Uh, I think I'll just choose Windows or Mac instead."

After this announcement:

Newbie: "I hear about this Linux thing too. How do I get that?"
Linux Advocate: "Well, you start by choosing from 10,293 confusing distros and dozens of different desktops..."
Newbie: "Uh, I think I'll just choose Windows or Mac instead."

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

^ This. Linux buries itself within itself.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you could be less condescending and say something like, "Well, Ubuntu/Mint/Newbie distro is a good place to get started, I'll help you get it installed, you see if you like it. Once you're comfortable with it, and if you like it, we can leave it on your computer or move on to a more advanced distro.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is there even a need for newbie or advanced linux distributions? I just don't get it. I mean, it's just an OS. You just run apps on an OS. What's so advanced about that? That's the problem with Linux -- it makes things that are super easy, incredibly challenging, to no real end, other than wasting your time.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is there even a need for newbie or advanced linux distributions?

This question brought to you by the people who thought that the charms bar was "the coolest thing evar!!1!"

Re:Well, that makes things better

[jedidiah]

There is nothing "super easy" about installing an operating system when it comes to your average n00b. They can barely handle a windows style installer or downloading things with a web browser.

The only reason they can even run Windows is because it's pre-installed and they get plenty of free tech support from friends and family. The same goes for MacOS to.

Besides, it's only trolls that are even aware of "1001 distros" anyways. Most normal people just focus on what the first page of a Google search would tell them.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's brought to you by someone who actually understands how power user features can exist even in user-friendly environments without needing a whole different OS just to get the "advanced" features.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[lgw]

Have you installed Windows recently? OK, I haven't since Windows 7, myself, but that install just asked me for timezone, language, and maybe which keyboard I was using (but the default was right), and the rest was just "next, next, next" and that was it, it ran for a while and rebooted 2x and was done with no further input.

For a homebuild, where Windows didn't even have the chipset driver, it still installed successfully, and gave me a full desktop to use for running the install CDs or whatever. But normal users don't ever have that problem.

I do think it's silly to have a "newbie" vs "power user" distro. That just seems nuts to me. Set up the default install to be newbie-friendly, and the power user can then do whatever to "fix" it.

OTOH, it's really quite important to have "server" vs "desktop" distros. I can kinda see the value in systemd on a desktop, for example, or the Ubuntu "app store" thingy. OTOH, on a server, while I still want a GUI desktop installed (I spend much of my life coding on a desktop on the same server distro we run on), I want a bare-bones, easy to troubleshoot system, with any convenience features tilted towards remote access.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[FatdogHaiku]

Yes, we need a distro for everyone!
I therefore propose a "Neapolitan Debian".
back to 10,294...

Re:Well, that makes things better

[aliquis]

Make the selection easier for them.

Like say "Mint(Or Ubuntu, whatever, but I guess the hip on /. is to hate on Ubuntu now) or openSUSE?"

Or just mention one for them and tell them to get that one.

Simple enough (Heck, people will say Windows 8 or 7 too.)

Re:Well, that makes things better

[orlanz]

OS. You keep using that term, I do not think you know what it means. They are called "distros" for a reason.....

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is there even a need for newbie or advanced linux distributions?

Well, I liked Crunchbang because it was optimized for low-end machines, had a dark theme, and its install scripts would (optionally) set up various web server and development environments for you. It was pretty much perfect for an itinerant web developer, but I recognize that not everyone has those needs.

You just run apps on an OS.

No, you just run apps on an OS. Some other people run services on an OS. Still others run containers, or clustered computation jobs.

Even if we're just limiting things to desktop/workstation, then it makes a huge difference if your computer is optimized for rendering colors accurately, or for low-latency audio, or for gaming. This distro is for pen testing, that distro is for home automation. Plus there's really no point to not distribute a distro as like a customized app suite.

Sigh. Just hand in your geek card on the way out, and nobody gets hurt.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[skids]

power user features can exist even in user-friendly environments

Sure they can "exist" but that does not keep the "user-friendliness" from getting underfoot.

Imagine for a moment that one day you get home, and not only has someone removed all your CD shelves so that safety banisters could be installed on every wall, they have also also baby-proofed your entire apartment so nothing is where you left it, put each of your power tools in its own locked box each with a different key. made all the lights in the place turn on at once when you clap, turned parental controls on your TV on, and entered a one-year contract with a company of tiny elves who will come and rearrange all your furniture every week in new and unusual ways, throw all the food from you fridge out and fill it with bags of pesto, and store the contents of all your wastebaskets in your garage.

That's the level of difference we are talking here.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[twistedcubic]

Great point! Now tell me, which OS do you use? WIndows 8 Home, Windows 8 Pro, or Windows 8 Enterprise?

Re:Well, that makes things better

[fisted]

Have you installed Windows recently? OK, I haven't since Windows 7, myself, but that install just asked me for timezone, language, and maybe which keyboard I was using (but the default was right), and the rest was just "next, next, next" and that was it, it ran for a while and rebooted 2x and was done with no further input.

So it's basically like the Debian installer, except for the part where you need two reboots (wth, seriously?).
Not for nothing they say that a chicken could install Debian, provided there's sufficient grain on the enter key...

Re:Well, that makes things better

[NormalVisual]

Have you installed Windows recently? OK, I haven't since Windows 7, myself, but that install just asked me for timezone, language, and maybe which keyboard I was using (but the default was right), and the rest was just "next, next, next" and that was it, it ran for a while and rebooted 2x and was done with no further input.

It's more or less the same now with 8, except for the extra non-intuitive steps you have to take to avoid signing up for a Microsoft user account. Unfortunately there's still the continued lack of an option in the setup process to create a regular user account for everyday use in addition to an account with admin privileges (and no, UAC doesn't count because people still blindly click through the dialogs asking for permission to do stuff).

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

You're the dumbest advocate I've ever seen. Just point them to your favorite distro.

Re: Well, that makes things better

[mexsudo]

At least somebody gets it

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

So?

Why does anybody care what other people choose to do/use?

I do think it is a good thing to educate people about the horrible practices of Microsoft and Apple, but then, it is up to them act on, or not.

The freedoms RMS always talks about are another thing that is good to educate folks on, but again, up to them to decide if important to them.

If either are important, having choice is not going to deter them. If they find neither argument compelling, then having choice is irrelevant.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[morgauxo]

Nah, more like this

Newbie2 is an Apple fan, Newbie1 is not

Newbie1: "I hear about this Linux thing too. How do I get that?"
Linux Advocate: "Here, I'll help you install "
  = some newbie oriented distro that Linux Advocate is familiar with just for this purpose and recommends to all his/her newbies
Newbie1: "OK.. procedes to ask questions when needed.. eventually graduates to doing things on own and probably uses a more complex distro... Newbie1 is now a Linux advocate too"

Newbie2: "I hear about this Linux thing too. How do I get that?"
Linux Advocate: "Here, I'll help you install "
Newbie2: "distro? there are choices! that is totally unhip! Later Loser!"
Linux Advocate: "Wait, come back... just use this, it's easy, you don't HAVE to make any choices, you just can if you want to"
Newbie2:

Re:Well, that makes things better

[FlyHelicopters]

So it's basically like the Debian installer, except for the part where you need two reboots (wth, seriously?).
Not for nothing they say that a chicken could install Debian, provided there's sufficient grain on the enter key...

Yes, except that once Windows is finished installing, it runs all your existing programs and all the programs you already know.

Debian... doesn't... for the average user...

Linux is a nice OS, but it will always remain in the 1-3% range of desktop OS for a long list of reasons.

Even if Windows is replaced at some point, Linux is not likely to be its replacement. And Windows is frankly not looking like it is going anywhere, since MS is now giving away Windows 10 to all Win 7/8 users.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't installed Windows for a *very* long time, but it was pretty easy the last time I did it (similar to GP). The main differences between your average Linux distro and Windows is that the Windows installer will blow up if you have unsupported old hardware and the average Linux distro will blow up if you have unsupported new hardware. From my perspective, it is easier to get a Linux box limping along with unsupported hardware than Windows, but it's a moot point for newbies in both camps because it is basically just impossible to do it unaided for both.

Several years ago, when I bought a new laptop, I got my mother (who can't even manage to deal with gmail) to install Ubuntu on it. She succeeded with no help whatsoever. If you have compatible hardware it is incredibly easy to install.

On the other hand, my colleague and I tried to set up a dual boot on a recent Macbook with full disk encryption on both sides. We eventually gave up. OSX makes so many assumptions that it is really hard to do anything that it doesn't expect. IMO, it's the worst of the lot.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

That takes care of the initial choice, but doesn't solve the later problem of later discovering more choices and constantly wondering, "Am I using the best distro? Should I switch to something else? Should I change desktop environments?", and so on. Not to mention the large investment of time needed to both research and try out those other options.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[aliquis]

Sure. Switch away.

Realize you did it for nothing / for worse.

(I would say Debian if my very old experience wasn't old packages and I guess they are still older than Ubuntu or Mint, I realize none of them are rolling releases but then again I personally think I'd take a reasonably reliable machine over that anyway.)

Desktop environments sure go ahead. You can always switch back. Or just go with KDE or Gnome and be done with it.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no Home edition for Windows 8.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called freedom of choice and if you *hate* freedom you're free to use some edition of Windows or OS X.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

As a long term debian user I'm still amazed by the windows installer. I build a machine for games:
-installed debian (testing) which recognized everything out of the box so it booted to a working state. Installed from the repository the proprietary nvidia drivers, installed steam, restarted the windowing system and started to play.
-installed windows 8.1 retail from USB (created from the dvd at my office machine), which installed without fuss, a couple of choices, nex, next, next, reboot. And was left sitting there without network, the motherboard came with a CD but this machine doesn't have one, I only have an ATA interface DVD reader but that interface if absent from new machines. So i booted linux, started downloading all the drivers from various sources (most from the mb manufacturer) put them on the usb device, rebooted to windows, installed driver, reboot, installed driver, reboot..... a couple of times, went to steam downloaded/installed plugged in the controller (ps3), went on a search for non adware drivers and finally could start playing.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

There is nothing "super easy" about installing an operating system when it comes to your average n00b. They can barely handle a windows style installer or downloading things with a web browser.

The only reason they can even run Windows is because it's pre-installed and they get plenty of free tech support from friends and family. The same goes for MacOS to.

Besides, it's only trolls that are even aware of "1001 distros" anyways. Most normal people just focus on what the first page of a Google search would tell them.

yea right, as does being a snobbish Linux geek who, no matter how smart you think you are..

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows does have power-user versions, so that's a moot point. You still have to pick from a multitude of flavors of Windows 7 or whatever. And there's the Windows Server line of operating systems, those are equivalent to "power user" versions of Linux. They exist because some people need that.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not a good argument. The same argument could be used to justify not upgrading ANY system. Why go to DVD? you "know" how to run a VHS player already, so it's a waste of time.

If someone is a total newbie, therefore Debian will be just as good as Windows in that regard. If someone already knows how to operate a PC with Windows on it, then you lose the "but a newbie can't be expected to learn anything!" line of argument.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[chmod a x mojo]

So it's basically like the Debian installer, except for the part where you need two reboots (wth, seriously?).

It's only because Windows doesn't have chroot. You boot the install media, it starts a live environment that only runs an installer ( VS. many "modern" Linux installers where you start desktop, find the icon for the installer launcher / launch it from a terminal ) which sets up disk partitioning and filesystems then copies over system files >> reboot to an installer environment on ( generally, sometimes in a VM) hard iron to unpack / configure everything >> standard boot.

If MS wanted to bother adding and testing code against tons and tons of oddball hardware configs to the installer they could MAKE a chroot type program and only require one reboot, but it would be just one more point of failure with added potential bugs to boot. Much easier to take the 30-90 extra seconds ( depending on hardware age ) to reboot on the off chance that someone needs to install from media.

Most places where savings could be had from high multiples of installations would have an image the flash to the HDD anyways, not install from physical media for hundreds / thousands of PCs.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Barsteward]

its just called windows 8 (core) so effectively its "Home",. you can upgrade to it only from Win7 starter, home basic and home premium.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

The same reason that Windows has server editions. Advanced users have specific, different needs than desktop users.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Anonymous Coward]

Before this announcement:

Newbie: "I hear about this Linux thing too. How do I get that?"
Linux Advocate: "Well, you start by choosing from 10,294 confusing distros and dozens of different desktops..."
Newbie: "Uh, I think I'll just choose Windows or Mac instead."

After this announcement:

Newbie: "I hear about this Linux thing too. How do I get that?"
Linux Advocate: "Well, you start by choosing from 10,293 confusing distros and dozens of different desktops..."
Newbie: "Uh, I think I'll just choose Windows or Mac instead."

And why should I care about someone who isn't able to distinguish their technological interests? Oh thats right, they can just take a corporate OS that can spoon feed them. No thanks, I choose to use linux for a reason. Its for people who WANT a choice.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[Zontar The Mindless]

Another satisfied Firefox user, I see.

(Put those Troll mods away--I've been using Firefox since before it was called "Firefox".)

Re:Well, that makes things better

[hypophthalmus]

Exactly. A Linux advocate is going to be educated enough to make a recommendation for them.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[aliquis]

Exactly. A Linux advocate is going to be educated enough to make a recommendation for them.

Friends don't let friends use IE? ;D

Reminds me of a girl I was visiting two (?, three?) times.

As is my habit (?) I spent some time "fixing" her computer =P, hum.. she didn't liked the "fixes" so the browser had to go the second time.

I don't know whatever the suggestions would be objective / educated enough from everyone, heck, some would likely suggest "HashBang!" or ArchLinux or Sabayon or elementary or .. PC-BSD or whatever.

But back in the real world the competition / relevant stuff kinda close to always have been Redhat, SuSE, Debian, Slackware and possibly some "do it yourself"-dist.

Picking something else is kinda like going with "Magnaton browser" instead of Chrome or Firefox. Pick any of the popular (in number of users not hype) and it likely won't be all that terrible.

Re:Well, that makes things better

[lgw]

No, Windows doesn't really have a "power-user" version, they have a bling version, that's about it (well, there's also a 3rd world version that's deliberately crippled). Desktop vs server, of course, that makes a lot of sense.

"for me, CrunchBang is something"

[asdfj]

For me, CrunchBang is something that happens when I'm about to get up in them guts but forgot that last night I ate a whole bag of tostitos half-asleep on my bed.

Just started using it

[Rinisari]

It's sad, 'cause I just started using it after discovering it late last year. I got my system upgraded to be based off of jessie instead of wheezy and was truckin' along just fine.

I would have loved to see #! continue even as just a metapackage that installs what makes the distro different from vanilla Debian.

Re:Just started using it

[bill_mcgonigle]

I would have loved to see #! continue even as just a metapackage that installs what makes the distro different from vanilla Debian.

Since you're probably more knowledgeable than the submitter or any of the trolls commenting thus far, care to tell us what you liked that made it worth your choice? Specifically what it does better than vanilla Debian?

Re:Just started using it

[Anonymous Coward]

It had the best furry porn wallpapers.

Re:Just started using it

[Anonymous Coward]

No way. That title is obviously held by OS X.

Re:Just started using it

[e4liberty]

I've been using it for years on a cheap Samsung Atom netbook. I like that it is svelt, has a nice minimalist look, and has great community support. I'm sorry to see it die.

Re:Just started using it

[Anonymous Coward]

No, OS X would have the best gay porn wallpapers. Furries can be straight which automatically disqualifies them from being a Mac user.

Re:Just started using it

[31eq]

It isn't much more than a metapackage, anyway. Gnome, KDE, LXDE, and XFCE are all metapackages and Debian live images. There is a point to Crunchbang living on in some form because most of the desktop is different to LXDE (they both have Openbox). And it probably will live, but with a different name.

Re:Just started using it

[Anonymous Coward]

I've been a #! user for about 4 years now. I am sure that it will survive as a community-developed netinstall script. A lot tend to install it that way already. Here are a few of my thoughts why it was great:

1. Forums. Almost completely asshole free. Very helpful to noobs without being patronizing. They helped me set up MPD when I was new. Rather than just treating me as a loser and recommended a bloated gui app, they helped. They also took the time to teach rather than just tell me what to do. I will forever be greatful to them. The Forum is the greatest legacy of #! and is going to stay around too.

2. Lightweight. Openbox is extremely light on the system. #!'s default looks, keyboard shortcuts, and other config files were clean, well-documented, and saved a heck of a lot of work to set them up myself. It was as if the ideal system of my dreams were pre-configured. Sure it had a user interface from the early 1990s with more up-to-date visuals, but that's what I wanted back when Gnome3, KDE, and Unity were all forcing a new paradigm upon us.

3. Minimalist in looks and function. Default apps were well-selected with little to no bloat. One tool per task. The interface is clean and simple, making the system about working rather than how pretty the widgets are or the cool transition animations.

4.. Nice post-install script

5. The stability and breadth of the Debian base.

Re:Just started using it

[Pope Hagbard]

I like Crunchbang because the maintainer put a lot of thought into the Blackbox configuration. It's basic, but very usable out of the box and discoverability's really helped by the default wallpaper featuring several helpful hotkey combinations.

I'm disappointed because it'd take a good deal of effort to replicate this off of stock Debian.

Re:Just started using it

[Anonymous Coward]

1. Forums. Almost completely asshole free.

Challenge accepted.

Re:Just started using it

[chispito]

It's lightweight, easily customizable, runs really quckly, has a nice community, and did I mention easily customizable? It's also really easy to make a console-centric desktop. I installed it last fall, spent a couple weeks customizing it, and have just been using it for daily computing since.

Re:Just started using it

[Anna Merikin]

I used their xfce version of #!-10 and it was wicked quick. Not fast, in that rendering in GiMP or loading web pages was quicker -- it wasn't --, but in responsiveness. When I clicked on something, the desktop responded instantly; I had the feeling it had read my mind and prepared for my request for action before I made it.

It was installed on a rotating hard disk, unlike Mint 10, which was on a SSD, and it beat Mint for speed (on a 1.6 gHz Pentium-M box with 4 G ram. YMMV)

Ironically, when the community xfce spin was discontinued, the announcement used the same logic -- You can add xfce to Debian and don'y need #! for that....

Sad to see it go. I would still have been using it had CUPS worked for printing....

Re:Just started using it

[basecastula]

The fact that it comes setup with cocky, ob-keys (hot keys for web, file manager, ...), openbox was nice. Way back when I gave it a try and moved on to archbang then arch. It is just nice that it provides a certain try of environment out of the box. I'm sure one could make a post install script to do the same with arch or Debian but that takes time. Sometimes I just want to get to work and install my other software that I need.

Re:Just started using it

[AqD]

What do you do with the system, seriously, other than learning Linux itself?

Re:Just started using it

[believekevin]

+1 to the Crunchbang forums. What an incredible intellectual community and technical resource. Crunchbang has been my daily driver on three different machines over about five years and I never ran into a problem that couldn't be solved with the collective help of the forums. I switched to wmii from openbox a few years ago but still kept up with the Crunchbang releases since they were so close to perfect out of the box. Light a candle for one of the greatest little distros in history!

This is the great thing about opensource projects.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sometimes the biggest goal of a project isn't the project itself.

Mozilla, the Firefox lit the fire under Microsoft's ass and got the browser industry out of it's sorry state (Anyone remember IE6's long, long long stagnation?)
Linux proved that the old titans of computing were lethargic and inflexible and utterly replaceable by commodity hardware. (Microsoft started this with windows, but Linux finished the job.)

If you can achieve your goals and change the world it's OK if your original project has outlived it's usefulness.

Sad Day

[Lord Apathy]

It's a sad day when a distribution is put down and nobody notices.

Re:Sad Day

[MightyMartian]

I didn't even know it existed.

Re:Sad Day

[Anonymous Coward]

You must be so famous to think making the front of Slashdot counts as nobody noticing.

Re:Sad Day

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd sure would notice. I have been experimenting with lightweight distributions and Crunchbang is so well done it lights up on my radar all the time.

It was even a good way to boot Linux and then add a DE like Xfce (I have my technical reasons).

But I wouldn't install it for Political reasons.

Congrats for the maintainer for a widely acknowledge quality work. I couldn't help but notice how many people were impressed by his work. Some distributions are a work of love and if you look close enough, you can see it in the tiniest details.

Re:Sad Day

[Anonymous Coward]

Depends on the world you choose to live in. It's not unlike if you're a sports fan, what you find really interesting and engaging about your favorite team is completely irrelevant to some one else.The problem is so many people now grow up completely lacking any empathy for others. It's not a matter of being unaware, it's that most people don't even care to learn about anything outside their insular bubbles.

Re:Sad Day

[Lord Apathy]

I'd sure would notice. I have been experimenting with lightweight distributions and Crunchbang is so well done it lights up on my radar all the time.

Don't think I'm being fastuous when I say its a sad day. Granted, normally I would be. It is a sad day when someone works on a small, fast little linux and nobody really notices out side certain circles. Now mainly the big 2, and their mutant spawn, dominate, Redhat and Debian. Little distros get lost in the backwash. sad really.

Re:Sad Day

[visualight]

Do we even need distributions now that we have systemd? The choice is which desktop interface you use, everything below that layer will practically be the same.

Re:Sad Day

[Anonymous Coward]

> Don't think I'm being fastuous when I say its a sad day.

Sincerely, the thought never crossed my mind. Actually, it couldn't have crossed, for I didn't know the word fastuous... :-/

While I agree about mainstream perception of only the big guys, the following distros were considered by yours truly in recent times (in no particular order): Bodhi, Makulu, Manjaro, antiX, SolydX, Sparkylinux, Porteus, Slax, Q4OS, Voyager, Handylinux, Netrunner, Kubuntu, Lubuntu, Android-X86 (yeah, it's a Linux distro), Lite Linux, Siduction, Chakra, Puppy, besides the more known Mint, Mageia and Ubuntu.

Crunchbang was one option to try next (among others), but, yes, it's sad it's not an option anymore. OTOH, a distro is never lost really, because the knowledge remains and can be passed on to other initiatives.

Could have profound purpose

[rubycodez]

CrunchBang could have been the systemD-less distro, unlike Debian which is embracing that morass of bad engineering

Re:Could have profound purpose

[shadowknot]

CrunchBang could have been the systemD-less distro

Thankfully, for that we have Slackware.

Re:Could have profound purpose

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. But then you have to run Slackware.

Re:Could have profound purpose

[31eq]

If you want a systemd-less Debian, go make a systemd-less Debian. Make it everything you think crunchbang should have been. Nobody's stopping you.

Re:Could have profound purpose

[aliquis]

Yup, if you want "Good old Linux" you've got Slackware.

And if all you want is "Good Linux" you've got openSUSE.

Re:Could have profound purpose

[Anonymous Coward]

Announcing a new init system. System-VI system-D makes emacs look lightweight.

Re:Could have profound purpose

[iggymanz]

Already done, Linux Mint Debian doesn't use systemd and it's an open question if it will ever have it

"LMDE 2 'Betsy' received a lot of updates this week and its 'Mint' packages are now almost on par with Linux Mint 17.1 Rebecca. The next step is to adapt the Debian Jessie base and port all the changes and fixes already applied for Linux Mint 17.x on top of Trusty. This should take a week or two and we might be in a position to open up a BETA some time in February and to start welcoming feedback from people interested in helping us test this new distribution. Similar to Linux Mint 17.x, LMDE 2 'Betsy' will be using the traditional sysvinit. The move to systemd could happen with Linux Mint 18 and LMDE 3, giving this new technology and the Linux ecosystem 2 years (or more) to mature and to iron out integration and compatibility issues. Cinnamon in particular is built without systemd support by default and the development team is planning to change this in version 2.6 to give the DE the ability to switch at runtime between systemd and consolekit/upower without the need to recompile anything." -- Clem, blog.linuxmint.com Jan 16, 2015

Re:Could have profound purpose

[Eunuchswear]

If you want a systemd-less debian just install sysvinit on Debian. You don't need a new distro.

Re:Could have profound purpose

[Barsteward]

who is maintaining Consolekit these days? i put in a googel search for "consolekit maintenance" and the latest reference was 2011

Re:Could have profound purpose

[Zontar The Mindless]

Explain to me who actually runs Suse again, desktop or otherwise? I migrated our Blackboard cluster at work off of that piece of shit and transitioned to Redhat Enterprise, as did most of the other enterprise admins in my state.

I've been running it for the last ten years.

(You didn't mention the state. That's probably wise.)

Re:Could have profound purpose

[aliquis]

No I'm not.

I'm a desktop user. openSUSE > Fedora.

For serious work maybe Redhat Enterprise is better (just as maybe Debian would be better than Mint for it) but it's not my purpose.

Re:Could have profound purpose

[rdnetto]

Not to mention Gentoo.

Re: Could have profound purpose

[shadowknot]

Yeah, thankfully systemd is still regarded as an "alternative init system" by Gentoo. I rather like OpenRC, hopefully they'll stay the course.

Re:Could have profound purpose

[rubycodez]

Problem is there are some things written for systemd that distros that need a bit of recoding for a systemd-less system. Good thing some distros are doing that, SystemD even if perhaps a good thing for average desktop user isn't ready for prime time yet by far

Re:Could have profound purpose

[Eunuchswear]

For example?

Re:Could have profound purpose

[Eunuchswear]

(I mean, apart from gummiboot, the only package in Debian that depends on systemd).

Re:Could have profound purpose

[rubycodez]

You can read Devuan project news to see things for which systemD dependencies being removed, for example consoleKit2, UDisks2, PolicyKit-1, and PCSC-Lite.

Re:Could have profound purpose

[Eunuchswear]

You can read Devuan project news to see things for which systemD dependencies being removed, for example consoleKit2, UDisks2, PolicyKit-1, and PCSC-Lite.

I could do that I suppose.

But since Debian doesn't include consolekit2, for example, that doesn't help.

As a simple matter of fact, as far as I know, the only package in the Debian repo's that (pre)-depends on systemd (with no alternative) is gummiboot.

A bunch of stuff depends on libsystemd0, but that does nothing if systemd isn't pid 1. The Devuan people are making huge efforts to remove those dependencies for some religious reason.

But the question I asked was:

What are the "things written for systemd that distros that need a bit of recoding for a systemd-less system."?

OpenBox makes it useless

[slacka]

I stopped using Crunchbag for saving old PC, when I discovered it requires a fast graphics card/good drivers. OpenBox have the option to hide window contents while dragging. This makes windows operations painful on GeFore4 or older hardware.

https://bugzilla.icculus.org/s...

Re:OpenBox makes it useless

[Anonymous Coward]

I stopped using Crunchbag for saving old PC, when I discovered it requires a fast graphics card/good drivers. OpenBox have the option to hide window contents while dragging. This makes windows operations painful on GeFore4 or older hardware.

https://bugzilla.icculus.org/s...

Try Tinycore (which can be easily customized any way you want) and is super fast and light.

Re:OpenBox makes it useless

[Anonymous Coward]

I was wondering how systemd is going to effect all the mini linux distributions such as puppy, dsl, tinycore, zenwalk, etc. Does systemd add a lot of bloat that will make these minis unpossible?

Re:OpenBox makes it useless

[Eunuchswear]

Huh?

My phone uses systemd. How "mini" do you want to get?

Re:OpenBox makes it useless

[Anonymous Coward]

SystemD is based on binary executables so it can fit into a much smaller space than the shell scripts of sysvinit. Additionally, you don't have to install all SystemD modules on an embedded system anyway.

Systemd was the cause of this!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's fun to see how much people HATE systemd! When you find out that a corrupt system journal can't be repaired. You have to use strings(1) to read it. Search the CrunchBang forum for systemd.

Re:Systemd was the cause of this!

[Eunuchswear]

It's fun to see how much people HATE systemd! When you find out that a corrupt system journal can't be repaired. You have to use strings(1) to read it. Search the CrunchBang forum for systemd.

You don't use strings(1), you use journalctl(1)

Re:Systemd was the cause of this!

[Barsteward]

you can't repair an ascii text file either if its been overwritten with junk data.

Re:Systemd was the cause of this!

[Eunuchswear]

How is that flamebait you fucked up mods?

The tool to read corrupt journald journals is journallctl. The "no repair" feature means that you can't write a corrupt journal, not that you can't read it.

Re:Systemd was the cause of this!

[Anonymous Coward]

You can read: "Er|}r: You a&e t(e dumbest of f*&ks"

You can't tell 10110101 should have been 10111101.

Which one had more corruption?

What was it?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hadn't heard of it before, so what was it?
Simply Debian with Openbox by default?

Re:What was it?

[jedidiah]

...which I achieve by taking stock Ubuntu and installing Openbox.

Alternately, I could use the Debian minimal image and install Openbox on top of that.

Re:What was it?

[31eq]

It's Debian with a coherent desktop built around Openbox, and an installer, and maybe some other choices different to the Debian defaults. It uses the Debian repositories as well as its own and even declares itself "Debian GNU/Linux" when you SSH in.

I happen to prefer the LXDE desktop now I can turn the bits I don't want off. I can understand the argument that Crunchbang isn't as important as it was. But enough people will prefer the Crunchbang style that they'll keep it going with a different name.

The donation site is still active

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonder if he'll put any donations towards keeping the forum open or just kick them back.

Just stop

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you perhaps cry about how you're not funny while eating entire bags of Tostitos alone in your bed?

Another one bites the dust.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Heck yeah! You mean Mohatsu no longer makes dishwashers? GE for the win!"

That's you. That's what you sound like. Reevaluate the important things in your life, son.

Glad I didn't bother trying it

[Anonymous Coward]

It's sad, but the days of excitedly experimenting with various distros is over for me. I pick a Linux distribution based on what my particular use case is. If I have a bad experience, I get something else.

Re:Glad I didn't bother trying it

[OrangeTide]

I picked my distro based on religious fervor. The righteous way to use Linux is while covered in the blood of your enemies.

Re:Glad I didn't bother trying it

[Anonymous Coward]

So Gentoo, then?

Re:Glad I didn't bother trying it

[odie5533]

Given that Gentoo is a masochistic distro, I think you'd be covered in your own blood.

Re:Like UNIX before it, Crunchbang is irrelevant

[OrangeTide]

So one down, about 8000 distros left to go? You don't seem to be making good progress in destroying POSIX & GNU.

Did all those Crunchbang users move to Debian or away from GNU and to Dragonfly BSD ? (I moved to WMlive, but I'm not typical)

Re:Clean up the irrelevant distros

[OrangeTide]

I think by the time Linux succeeds on the desktop, the only desktop users will be a few of us old farts living in senior homes.

Tiny core

[Anonymous Coward]

I haven't checked lately, but when I last looked, there were lots of problems with sound support.

Are things any better now?

Re:Tiny core

[Anonymous Coward]

I would test it out, but it takes so long to download and install.

No!

[SigmundFloyd]

Oh NO!!! God please no, not crunchbag!!!1

Re:No!

[Anonymous Coward]

> Oh NO!!! God please no, not crunchbag!!!1

I feel your pain, bro. But raise your head, look at the horizon... a new day shall come, that's for sure! We will live on!

(BTW it's CrunchbaNg)

UEFI and SYSTEMD INTERFERING WITH DISTROS

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, this was predicted, making it so hard to keep up with EEE, shifting sands and all that crap now they apparently can buy most of the bigger distros so the small one cant keep up with this faster pace of development, completly replacing all ducting and then wayland completly replacing the gui manager. soon all applications will have to be recoded, see how that works out.

Linux gurus you MUST eject Microsoft from Linux asap or you will all die.

Waldorf works when upgraded to Jessie

[Pope Hagbard]

I s/wheezy/jessie/ in /etc/apt/sources.list and did apt-get update/dist-upgrade, and on first blush at least it seems to work. There seems to be a viable upgrade path until someone else steps in to make a Debian respin, at least.

The Battle of the Five Armies

[OrangeTide]

Fedora vs Gentoo vs Ubuntu vs Mint vs Debian.

RHEL, SUSE, and CentOS were not present, as they were busy protecting Gondor.

Slackware and PuppyLinux were still in the shire.

That is a shame

[Amadeusz]

I really did like #!.

Re:That is a shame

[Anonymous Coward]

Me, too! I run in 512meg, it's fast, and Ubuntu boots slowers than Windows. Some one PLEASE take over this great, great distro. And I have so much fun telling people, "at home, I Crunchbang my Iceweasel!"

The last version would not fit on a CD - the first time this happened. To the new guy, please fix this. You need to be "running light without overbyte!"

Good

[Anonymous Coward]

Shouldn't have started that to begin with when the alternative really wasn't that much different. You just wasted a bunch of time for no good reason.

Re:Like UNIX before it, Crunchbang is irrelevant

[stox]

UNIX RTR is still used to place most of your phone calls. It ain't dead yet. There are still a lot of Fortune 500's running the majority of their operation on AIX, Solaris, or even HP/UX.

Re:Clean up the irrelevant distros

[amalcolm]

I'm already an old fart, you insensitive clod!

Not too surprised....

[Omineca]

After years of using Slackware, I installed Crunchbang on a netbook about 4 or 5 years ago. The decision was made because Crunchbang worked with the hardware, but I really enjoyed using it, and the community was/is great. Then the developer killed the XFCE version, which was far more usable than the OpenBox variant. At that point, I decided never to go with a one-man show again, and installed a minimal version of Debian. Given the size of the Debian development team, you don't have to worry about a single developer calling it quits and ending the project. In addition, as the Crunchbang dev noted, there's nothing in Crunchbang that you can't get from Debian.

Re:Like UNIX before it, Crunchbang is irrelevant

[dimeglio]

In all fairness, all main distros have introduced elements making Crunchbang less relevant. It's actually somewhat of a victory for Crunchbang.

Well that sucks

[Anonymous Coward]

I have been using CrungBang (#!) Linux for a few years on my little netbook which I lug around with me. Sure there are other distros out there but I found it was easy to install and ran a lot better from the get go with the limited hardware than a number of other ones I had tried. I only just installed it on an Atom mini computer as well.

To all the post I have seen 'wow one distro down, half a million more to go', do a search on distrowatch for light weight distros, they are not as common as you would think.

disagree with corenominal a little bit

[pointbeing]

...I’m leaving it behind because I honestly believe that it no longer holds any value,

Would disagree pretty strongly. I was a longtime KDE user and was scared witless of lightweight WM after a few failed attempts back in the day. #! gave me a lightweight distribution that worked OOB and gave me a usable system; I felt free to backup configs and tweak to my heart's content, knowing I could always put it back the way it was if I screwed it up.

That's how I learned openbox. That's also how I learned that I preferred fluxbox to openbox.

Then I figured one day that since I had a really nice #! configuration I could migrate the thing to full Debian. After that I learned that migrating a #! install to Debian isn't as easy as one would think, but I got through it. That gave me the confidence to clean-install Jessie and later, Sid which is where I am now.

But I'm still using the default #! theme :)

corenominal saved me a lot of pain and I learned a lot. I'm not sure there really is anything to replace what #! is out of the box.

Nice distribution

[kaell]

I use this distribution since 2009. It also heavely influenced how I configure my non-Crunchbang Linux machines (Ubuntu Slackware, Raspian and OpenBSD) with a Openbox, Tint2 and Conky setup.

I haz a Sad :(

[Wolfrider]

--This is sad news for me, I have Crunchbang installed on a couple of older boxes at home. Really liked the distro; I hope it can survive on in some way, as a set of apt-gettable scripts or something.

Too late again !

[Anonymous Coward]

I loved Darnn Small Linux , Mint and had just discovered Crunch Bangs -USB abilities ...
Life is about change !