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DEA Hands MuckRock a $1.4 Million Estimate For Responsive Documents

An anonymous reader writes with news about what might be the largest Freedom of Information Act fee yet. "The EFF recently kicked off a contest for the 'most outrageous response to a Freedom of Information Act request' and we already have a frontrunner for the first inaugural 'Foilie.' MuckRock's loose confederation of FOIA rabblerousers has been hit with a $1.4 million price tag for John Dyer's request for documents related to the 'localization and capture' of Mexican drug lord 'El Chapo.'"

18 of 136 comments (clear)

  1. Consider the denominator by mi · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hate to even appear to be defending a government agency, but the request was for over 13K case files. $1.4mln divided by 13K comes to about $107 per case. If a lawyer has to (carefully) review each one — such as to black-out parts affecting privacy of innocent or other government secrets — the requested fee may even appear too small.

    As TFA aknowledges:

    This request will have to be narrowed considerably if MuckRock hopes to obtain anything on this subject from the DEA.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Consider the denominator by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      . If a lawyer has to (carefully) review each one â" such as to black-out parts affecting privacy of innocent or other government secrets

      Those documents belong to us, they should be redacted when filed so that we can see them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Consider the denominator by necro81 · · Score: 2

      Swagging it, 1.4 million implies at least 14 staff attorneys would have to work 12 months

      At the least, I'd like to see a breakout of the labor estimates. It seems double to quadruple what I would expect.

      You think the going rate for a staff attorney is $50/hour ($1.4mil, 14 persons, 2000 hrs/12 mo)? You haven't been around many attorneys, have you? The salary may work out to that (about $100k/yr), but with benefits and overhead, it could easily be double that. Just be lucky that an outside firm doesn't need to be involved - considering DC's rates, it could easily work out to $300/hr.

    3. Re:Consider the denominator by mi · · Score: 2

      Swagging it, 1.4 million implies at least 14 staff attorneys would have to work 12 months.

      A federal government's staff attorney makes $126K per year on average. (Plus bonuses, benefits, office space and supplies, and a manager.) That's about $1.8 million at least, more likely well over $2million.

      Now, to be able to go through 13000 cases (each with multiple documents), each member of this hypothetical team will need to process 928 cases. How many can they process per day? To finish in the 12 months allotted (250 business days, less 20 vacation days per person), it would have to be more than 4 cases per day per attorney.

      Possible, but on the optimistic side. As I said, if there is anything wrong with the requested fee, it is too low.

      Now, maybe, as the AC below suggests, the entire government has to keep all of its documents ready for publishing from the moment they are created (with the necessary black-outs specified by each document's very author or his boss) — and publish them automatically after certain number of years. But that would require an actual dramatic change in how the government bureaucracy operates — a change well beyond the ability (perhaps, even imagination) of not only the community organizer we've got, but even of a seasoned CEO, who almost replaced him the last time...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    4. Re:Consider the denominator by sociocapitalist · · Score: 2

      I hate to even appear to be defending a government agency, but the request was for over 13K case files. $1.4mln divided by 13K comes to about $107 per case. If a lawyer has to (carefully) review each one — such as to black-out parts affecting privacy of innocent or other government secrets — the requested fee may even appear too small.

      As TFA aknowledges:

      This request will have to be narrowed considerably if MuckRock hopes to obtain anything on this subject from the DEA.

      I'd rather have my tax money being spent on providing information freely upon request than some of the other ways it is being used.

      If the government is allowed to charge for information, information is not being provided freely.

      --
      blindly antisocialist = antisocial
  2. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by AK+Marc · · Score: 2

    At least they gave them a bill, rather than just saying "no". That's more transparent. If someone comes up with the money, then we can see what it bought. A multi-agency activity could have lots of cost in getting the documents together for a single response.

  3. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by ganjadude · · Score: 3, Insightful

    the only certifiably crazy people running are those who want to keep doing more of the same

    people voted for obama because he "wasnt bush" , well guess what, he is bush. What next? hillary? another war hawk??? no thanks

    Rand paul only seems crazy because he is talking about things others wont. REAL civil rights issues, prison reform, auditing the FED, ensuring our money is sound. I mean yeah, if you go on what we have done for the past 40 years it sounds crazy. but, maybe its time for crazy

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  4. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by jd2112 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Rand paul only seems crazy because he is talking about things others wont. REAL civil rights issues, prison reform, auditing the FED, ensuring our money is sound. I mean yeah, if you go on what we have done for the past 40 years it sounds crazy. but, maybe its time for crazy

    Sorry, he lost me with his stance on vaccinations.

    --
    Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
  5. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by ganjadude · · Score: 2

    im not a fan of his stance on vax either. but you need to look at the bigger picture. his personal beliefs on vax? or his stance on larger issues at had?

    I dont agree wit him personally on vax, abortion and a few other things, but in the end he is STILL better than the alternatives.

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  6. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by ganjadude · · Score: 5, Insightful

    who said anything about the market and civil rights? rand is talking about ending the war on drugs and restoring rights to those convicted of non violent drug charges. That Is what I mean when im talking about civil rights because everyone knows the system is stacked against black people. ending the war on drugs would be the single biggest civil rights gain for many americans out there

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  7. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by Triklyn · · Score: 4, Insightful

    his stance on the rights of the business owner and the rights of the public is also troubling. the whole snafu with him being a bit ambivalent on the enforcing of desegregation of public businesses during the civil rights era.

  8. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by ganjadude · · Score: 2

    so your problem is that he is taking a constitutional stance on something that happened when he was a child??? something he had nothing to do with?

    I guess thats your right but you are ignoring the fact that he is the only one who is actually talking about doing anything for civil rights today. not even obama is doing anything for civil rights today.

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  9. Re:There's a larger issue than vaccination? by Firethorn · · Score: 2

    Measles outbreak is almost entirely tied to either people who just got Vaccinated (read the literature on it, it causes Measles), and people coming in from out of the country (undocumented, illegally). BUT you're too fucking PC to actually acknowledge the problem.

    Citation on that literature? I just visited the CDC and 'measles' is not listed as a side effect of the MMR vaccine.

    And Autism is linked to Vaccinations (See Italy's court rulings),

    After seeing Italy's rulings over the Knox case, I trust them less than the US. Besides, plenty of studies over in Europe disproving the Autism thing. You do realize that it was proven that the doctor fabricated his findings in order to further a lawsuit hoping for a payout from the vaccine makers, right?

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    I don't read AC A human right
  10. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by ganjadude · · Score: 2

    nice straw man and all, but libertarians are not for no government. the republicans and democrats have done a good job of confusing libertarians with anarchists, and dolts seem to keep parroting the same lies over and over.

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  11. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 4, Insightful

    yeah, that no-regulation-free-market-economics-will-save-us-all economic model that he espouses has worked so well

    FUCK YOU, AC, for perpetuating this asinine straw man bullshit. 87,282 final rules have been issued in the last 20 years. That’s more than 3,500 per year or about nine per day. The 2013 Federal Register contains 79,311 pages, the fourth highest ever. The Federal IRS tax code ALONE is a whopping 73,954 pages, and is so complicated not even IRS tax attorneys can provide consistent answers to tax questions.

    But, sure, to you fucking I-love-dictatorial-and-abusive-central-government fucktards defend every ludicrous piece of shit regulation as if ANY rollback is OMG IT IS LIKE ANARCHY IN THE STREETS!

    Yea, well fuck you. And the horse you rode in on. And the entourage that rode with you. And the grooms that stabled your horses.

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  12. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 2

    Or you could you know, just hire people that seem dependable and evaluate them on their performance, which seems a whole lot simpler and less judgmental.

    And you know what? That's why it would work just fine without regulation. Because businesses that do that will be much more successful. What you do when you regulation anti-discrimination by law is you eliminate the market penalty for discrimination. I know that sounds backwards, but let me explain. I think it's easy to see what the public would do to a business that tried to discriminate against customers (just look what happened to Paula Deen). But there is a labor market penalty, too.

    If you're passing up good talent for superficial racial/gender/other reasons, then you're paying a premium for talent. Women and minorities are still behind in salary, so it is sometimes beneficial to hire them, because they are likely just as good as white male counterparts, but offer their services for less. Businesses that don't reject that discount will have an advantage over those that do.

    There is more to it, but Milton Friedman explains it much better than I can, describing how affirmative action and anti-discrimination in hiring policies actually harms the people it is intended to help.

    --
    "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
    --- Jerry Garcia
  13. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by Type44Q · · Score: 2

    everyone knows the system is stacked against black people

    The system is stacked against poor people.

  14. Re:Most. Transparent. Administration. Ever. by tburkhol · · Score: 2

    87,282 final rules have been issued in the last 20 years. Thatâ(TM)s more than 3,500 per year or about nine per day. The 2013 Federal Register contains 79,311 pages, the fourth highest ever.

    If companies would stop devising ever more clever ways to mislead, cheat, and defraud while remaining technically within the letter of existing rules, then government might be able to stop revising the rules.