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US Gov't To Withdraw Food Warnings About Dietary Cholesterol

An anonymous reader writes: The Washington Post reports on news from the U.S.'s top nutrition advisory panel, which plans to stop warning consumers about the amount of dietary cholesterol in foods. The government has been issuing these warnings for over 40 years, and they reaffirmed that decision as recently as five years ago. "[T]he finding, which may offer a measure of relief to breakfast diners who prefer eggs, follows an evolution of thinking among many nutritionists who now believe that for a healthy adult cholesterol intake may not significantly impact the level of cholesterol in the blood or increase the risk of heart disease. The greater danger, according to this line of thought, lies in foods heavy with trans fats and saturated fats. ... But the change on dietary cholesterol also shows how the complexity of nutrition science and the lack of definitive research can contribute to confusion for Americans who, while seeking guidance on what to eat, often find themselves afloat in conflicting advice."

180 comments

  1. Unsettling science by mi · · Score: 5, Interesting

    But the change on dietary cholesterol also shows [...] the complexity of nutrition science and the lack of definitive research

    Awesome. And, while we are it, the War on Fat was in error too. Decades after telling us one thing — coercing and outright forcing us to follow its "scientifically proven" and "common sense" guidelines, the government now admit to have been full of shit. Will anybody prosecuted?

    One can't help, but wonder, what other famously "settled" science will come apart?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Unsettling science by nitehawk214 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Will anybody prosecuted?

      Yes, you, for crimes against grammar.

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    2. Re:Unsettling science by thesupraman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You know, if you had done just a little critical thinking, and perhaps a touch of research yourself then you would know that blaming fat for fatness was pure stupidity, mainly pushed by promoters of diets and 'healthy foods' (usually high in carbs instead).

      How fat was metabolized, and what was used to produce body fat, have been well known for a long time.
      So, who do you plan to sue? the media for jumping on a profitable bandwagon? people themselves for believing everything they are told?

      Hell, next you are going to tell me you still believe fruit juice is a 'healthy alternative'
      Or that energy/sports drinks are somehow good for normal people (not only active atheletes)
      Perhaps you also believe that sugar alternatives are a perfectly safe alternative?
      Or that calorie intake doesnt matter if you 'balance' it by exercising it back off?
      Maybe that breakfast is somehow 'the most important meal of the day'?
      OR that small snacks continuously are better than larger means somehow?
      Hell, perhaps you even buy pesticide free foods, while having one of these horrors in your house: http://www.raidautomatic.com.au/index.html
      Or hammer down a handful of supplements every day, when the tiny trace amounts you actually need are present in all your food?
      You could even be crazy enough to think Vitamin C somehow kills viruses!

      Its usually not too hard to see through the bs, rhetoric, and marketing and work out whats obvious BS..
      And if you thought there was much settled 'science' behind government and market food recommendations, then sorry, you are beyond hope.
      Its called MARKETING, and its not science.

      Science has well and truly made available everything you need to know about fat, quite some time ago.

    3. Re:Unsettling science by meglon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can't tell if you're trying to be funny, or if you are actually as stupendously ignorant about science as you're post portrays you to be.... it's very hard to tell in writing. I generally try to give people the benefit of doubt, but i get the vibe you're not trying to be funny.

      Science is based on observation and experimentation. What that means is, the more exacting observations we make, and the more fine tuned our experimentation, the more precise our knowledge becomes... that's pretty basic, 4th-6th grade level science. If you want something that once said never, ever changes, regardless of new information, then stick to religion.

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
    4. Re:Unsettling science by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      One can't help, but wonder, what other famously "settled" science will come apart?

      From Woody Allen's Sleeper, set in the future:

      Dr. Orva:Here. You smoke this, and be sure you get the smoke deep down into your lungs.
      Miles Monroe:I don't smoke.
      Dr. Orva:It's tobacco. It's one of the healthiest things for your body. Now go ahead. You need all the strength you can get.

      Non-smoker bars, restaurants and airline flights will be banned in the future!

      Unless, of course, they are organized as non-smoker "clubs" . . .

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    5. Re:Unsettling science by jandersen · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One can't help, but wonder, what other famously "settled" science will come apart?

      Don't blame the science - this is about taking science's name in vain and claiming something is proven when science has always been very up front about the limitations in what, for want of a better word, is called current knowledge. This is what always happens; people don't understand how science works or how scientists think and communicate. When the scientist says 'To the best of current knowledge, eating eggs is probably bad for you, although we really haven't researched that enough' it translates into 'Science says egg is bad for you'.

      I would have hoped we, as engineers, or at least as individuals interested in science, would have a clearer understanding of this - it lies at the very heart of science. Unlike religion, science is not about absolute truth - it is all about improving accuracy by means of the scientific method. If you want certainty, go to your church/synagogue/mosque/temple/... - if you want something that is likely to work, go to science.

    6. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True.

      And the sad thing is that there was never any scientific evidence that eating fat makes you fat.

      People just assumed that fat must turn into fat - based on a "bucket" analogy of the human body. But guess what: a human body is not like a bucket.

    7. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhhh, you realize that cholesterol is fat? It is animal fat.

    8. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole "salt will make your blood pressure go through the roof!" thing is being ripped apart right now.
      We blatantly know it isn't true, but science circles seem to think it is, or someone pushed it for some reason beyond me. (maybe low salt groups lobbied for it)

      The only possible link is a hugely high diet in salt might be linked to strokes, as is the possible case in places like Japan that have salt-heavy diets.
      But I mean REALLY salt-heavy, not like a typical western diet in the slightest. Ours is laughable next to theirs.

      The facts are is we know there is some unknown condition or multiple conditions that make people horribly sensitive to salt. Totally unknown.
      That is a far worse thing that blaming something for no reason, the fact that an undiagnosed condition(s) has evaded science for decades.
      For all we know, it could be yet another case of some other ingredient that is missing in our shitty diets that is making salt fairly toxic to our bodies when it shouldn't be at all. (like in the case where people consume fruit juices without the fruit and get none of the fiber that protects you from the high sugar content. Eat your fruit kids!)

    9. Re:Unsettling science by Bongo · · Score: 1

      Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."

      Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.

      Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or... hot fudge?

      Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.

    10. Re:Unsettling science by Rei · · Score: 5, Informative

      Even in this case, it should be pointed out that for about one in three adults, levels of dietary cholesterol do have a significant effect on the levels of cholesterol in the blood. But even for them, the effect is half as much as the effect of saturated fat intake on blood cholesterol.

      There's all sorts of potential health info one could write on a package. Every additional bit you add takes attention off every other that's already there. Mandating listing cholesterol when it's not as major of an issue as other information on there, like saturated fat, trans fat, salt, etc is probably not justified.

      As for the GP, anyone who lumps all fats together as if they're one substance is an idiot. Different fats need to be treated differently. If you think eating mainly saturated and trans fats comprises a healthy diet and will lead to a long lifespan, you're flatly in contradiction to the overwhelming body of research. But if you eat a lot of monounsaturated and omega 3 fats**, this could well be true (though there's lots of niggling details - for example, mono is probably great if you're heart-risk prone but not if you're breast cancer prone). And even these sorts of categories are still broad generalizations; each is comprised of many different individual fat molecules, and each one may carry its own benefits and risks.

      Note on omega 3s... this means as a general rule uncooked omega-3 rich foods. Omega-3s are heat-unstable, they break down under cooking (not to mention it ruins the flavor). They should ideally be stored refrigerated as well. There have been some studies that certain herbs, such as rosemary, can help heat-stabilize omega-3s - but its a limited effect. Also, as mentioned above, not all omega-3s are identical. For example, the EPA and DHA from oily fish or krill are believed to be more effective than the APA from plants, which the body has to convert at low efficiency. But the usually bad taste of the former has discouraged use, while most omega-3 rich plant oils (flax, walnut, hemp, etc) are quite flavorful (really, I have no clue why they're not used more often in salad dressings and the like just for that reason alone). Also, you aren't just what you eat, but also what what you eat eats. For example, eggs from hens fed green plants and omega-3 rich feeds generally are several times higher in omega-3s than hens fed a standard grain feed. The same applies to levels in meats.

      --
      "That girl is a witch!" "Yeah, but she's our witch. So cut her the hell down!"
    11. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    12. Re: Unsettling science by Rei · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Really? You don't believe in acid rain damage? So who's been f*ing up statues? Is it evil environmentalists? Are they also the ones rigging the pH meters? Did they fake the science about how SO2 oxidizes to SO3 and then hygroscropically forms H2SO4 droplets? Damn them!

      What about ozone don't you believe? That humans were extensively emitting CFCs? That CFCs have been measured in the stratosphere via sounding rockets, balloons, and aircraft? That CFCs at the levels measured demonstrably catalytically destroy ozone, and that it's a rather simple lab experiment to prove it? That ozone was on a demonstrably measurable decline and UV demonstrably measured on the rise? That the decline has significantly tapered off and even started to reverse a little since there was a crackdown on CFCs? Or, contrarily, do you accept all that but think that UV is harmless to humans?

      Peak oil and peak food are not sciences. They're common in the popular press, in books, etc (and nowadays on blogs and forums), but have received rather limited review in scientific journals. Don't get me wrong, there have been some, but compared to other fields rather little, and the results have been mixed to say the least.

      --
      "That girl is a witch!" "Yeah, but she's our witch. So cut her the hell down!"
    13. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhhh, you realize that cholesterol is fat? It is animal fat.

      No, it's not. This is among the most annoying of all the common mis-statements in medicine and pop-science. Cholesterol is a sterol with 4 rings, a short carbon tail and a single polar hydroxyl group for orienting it in membranes. Fats are unbranched carbon chains anchored to a glycerol, sometimes with a large polar domain for forming membranes, but but common use frequently implies triglycerides that lack polarity.

      Fat and cholesterol are frequently found together - in lipoproteins and cell membranes - but they're absolutely not the same thing. This "Good Cholesterol" and "Bad Cholesterol" crap refers to the lipoproteins that carry hydrophobic triglycerides and cholesterol in the bloodstream, and are different things than actual cholesterol, actual triglycerides, dietary cholesterol, or dietary fat. Damn doctors ought to be able to distinguish between cholesterol and lipoproteins.

    14. Re: Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See, this is the thing about anti science conservatives. For a scientist, when evidence shows that a previous conclusion was incorrect, the conclusion needs to be changed.

      For conservatives, we all know that changing one's mind for any reason is something to be ridiculed and calls one's motivations into question.

      This is because of projection. Conservative leaders repeatedly spew forth all kind of politically motivated nonsense as though it is fact (war on drugs, anyone?), so they therefore believe everybody else has questionable motives for everything they say as well.

    15. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      It's a shame that global warming science isn't based on observation or experimentation. We could have saved ourselves a lot of hassle and money if it was.

    16. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn it.
      Now a bunch of Creationists are going to crawl out of the woodwork to repeat mi's argument by saying "The science of Evolution isn't settled!" They'll argue "If doctors could be wrong about cholesterol then Geologists could be wrong the age of the Earth!" ... and other such BS.

    17. Re: Unsettling science by RabidReindeer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Science isn't just about what you know. It's about what you suspect and finding ways to prove OR disprove your suspicions. And a lot of things out there are not so simply linked as CFCs and ozone destruction.

      As a classic example, I usually point out smoking and lung cancer, since everyone's familiar with it. Lots of people smoke and live to be 98. Some smoke and die of lung cancer. I've known both. The main thing is that the people I've known who died of lung cancer were almost exclusively smokers, but the centennarians and near-centennarians are mostly non-smokers. Because smoking is a contributor to, but not sole cause of, nor guaranteed cause of lung cancer.

      The other common case where the science is not clear-cut is climate change. It isn't that the jury is still out. Like smoking, there will never be a "verdict point" where everyone agrees, but the movement of scientific opinion has continued to trend towards man-made acceleration.

      Even in cases where there are distinctly provable connections, it can take time - and false starts - to get them straight. For ages people thought that stomach ulcers were basically caused by nervous stress and that milk would ameliorate them. It took a certain amount of shouting and argument before science determined that they were caused not by nervous stress, but by bacteria. and that milk was anything but effective. AND, mind you, this wasn't something that came about in Lister's day when people were discovering bacterial illnesses right and left, but in very recent times.

      The difference between science and religion is that science can admit to mistakes and change, but most religions consider themselves to be based on eternal and immutable truths. If you think that human-spawned CO2 is wreaking havoc, but observations don't hold up, that's religion. If you think that and the observations do hold up, that's science - at least until some other better model can be found. Then it, too becomes religion.

      Religion says that if you have just a tiny smidgen of faith, you can order a mountain to leap into the sea and it will do so, although if that's true, people have faith that makes mustard seeds look like galactic clusters. Science says that the mountain has more than enough faith to stay right where it is, regardless of what you believe. But that high explosives have more faith than either you OR the mountain.

    18. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole "salt will make your blood pressure go through the roof!" thing is being ripped apart right now.

      The facts are is we know there is some unknown condition or multiple conditions that make people horribly sensitive to salt.

      You admit that salt does have an effect on at least some people, but you make up a mystery condition to explain it rather than accepting the possibility that it's just how some people react to too much salt in their diet.

      This is what denial looks like.

    19. Re:Unsettling science by ferespo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I can't tell if you're trying to be funny, or if you are actually as stupendously ignorant about science as you're post portrays you to be.... it's very hard to tell in writing. I generally try to give people the benefit of doubt, but i get the vibe you're not trying to be funny.

          Science is based on observation and experimentation. What that means is, the more exacting observations we make, and the more fine tuned our experimentation, the more precise our knowledge becomes... that's pretty basic, 4th-6th grade level science. If you want something that once said never, ever changes, regardless of new information, then stick to religion.

      This is not science, is public health policy. One is supposed to be based in the other, but it is now always like that.

    20. Re:Unsettling science by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      They usually can, but have learned that explaining it to their patients makes their eyes glaze over and they don't get even a tiny fraction of what they have told them. So they resort to the "good cholesterol, bad cholesterol" sock puppet play so people at least understand what they should do.

      It's a bit like we explain computer stuff to non-techy people. We don't always use the technically correct terms, but we've simply learned that if we do, they not only don't understand at all but they also can't even figure out what the heck we want them to do.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re:Unsettling science by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 3, Funny

      Do not teach your grammar how to suck eggs.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    22. Re:Unsettling science by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      > You know, if you had done just a little critical thinking, and perhaps a touch of research yourself then you would

      Then you could just ignore all of the journalists, and ignore the government, turn your back on society in general and just become a doomsday prepper.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    23. Re: Unsettling science by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      No. Changing your mind today rightfully puts into question the claims you are making today. Intuitively even the idiots understand that if you were wrong yesterday, then you're probably wrong today.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    24. Re: Unsettling science by jbengt · · Score: 2

      The difference between science and religion is that science can admit to mistakes and change, but most religions consider themselves to be based on eternal and immutable truths.

      Nonetheless, most religions have still managed to mutate, diverge, and evolve over time, even as they declare their eternal truths. (except for maybe some of the religions that have gone extinct)

    25. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what would you base your critical thinking upon? The research? Well, then you'd have been wrong, and are wrong now. The science on the topics of fat and cholesterol has waffled, and people like you are part of the problem blaming the consumer.

    26. Re:Unsettling science by ceoyoyo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Most MDs aren't biochemists. The extent of their understanding of things like cholesterol's role in the body depends entirely on whether they were paying attention in class that day. They almost certainly know the good cholesterol-bad cholesterol thing, but they may not know, or may not know well, that HDL and LDL aren't cholesterol at all, or that the latest research shows dietary cholesterol usually has very little effect on either. Several studies have shown that the average MD doesn't learn much past about five years post med school. For many that's while they're still doing their residencies.

      To go with your computer stuff simile, while there's a guy in the back who actually knows the difference between a north bridge and a south bridge, the guy you're talking to in the showroom may or may not have just memorized the specs.

    27. Re:Unsettling science by sacrilicious · · Score: 1

      Actually, some fan of the show Frazier snuck her way onto the set and ended up being prosecuted for crimes against Kelsey Grammar.

      --
      - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    28. Re:Unsettling science by Chandon+Seldon · · Score: 5, Interesting

      It's not clear that saturated fat is bad for you either. That leaves trans fats as bad, and Omega-6's as questionable.

      The trick is that "the level of cholesterol in the blood" is not a meaningful health indicator. The ratio of LDL to HDL is much more useful. And saturated fat actually makes that ratio slightly better (while raising the values of both). Thus, the best evidence indicates that saturated fat is *good* for you.

      --
      -- The act of censorship is always worse than whatever is being censored. Always.
    29. Re:Unsettling science by Bonzoli · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Omega 3 is generally picked up when creatures are browsing different seeds. Our current farms feed them, corn and antibiotics. Go with Flax seeds, Walnuts, and oddly Chia.
      Farm raised fish sadly doesn't have it, as it requires Krill to be fed to them. Which farms do not feed the fish.
      Hydrogenated oil and High fructose crap and aspartame, these 3 products combined pretty much are going to shut down every important system in your body over time. GMO'ing your food so it can absorb more roundup pesticides which in the end you eat, is also a winner. Hexane also gets a big thumbs down.

      Try walking 30 minutes a day at lunch. Does it really take an hour to eat? It takes me 5 minutes to eat lunch. Eat more plain nuts unroasted or glazed if your feeling like a snack.
      Another sad fact is, most of those fresh vegetables/fruits are not fresh. They were picked green and completely lacking most of those trace elements a mature fruit/vegetable has when picked. Notice all the studies say, we tested a mature fruit or vegetable. Perhaps try frozen fresh vegetables and fruits, those are packed and frozen after ripening vs before. Salads without those saturated/hydrogenated dressings vs that pizza slice(I love pizza. Which also has hydrogenated oil and high fructose corn syrup. I guess because its whipped up in a lab to trigger all my love for food sensors.).
      Avoid Hydrogenated oil and High fructose crap and aspartame.

      I wish I had listened to those old grey beards that told me to question more, before I became one. I'd be great deal healthier now.

    30. Re:Unsettling science by Megol · · Score: 1

      No. The reason: fat is extremely concentrated nutrition... ~double that of sugar for the same weight.

    31. Re:Unsettling science by bhspencer · · Score: 2

      3 data points does not make a pattern significant.

    32. Re:Unsettling science by jmanforever · · Score: 1

      Actually, some fan of the show Frazier snuck her way onto the set and ended up being prosecuted for crimes against Kelsey Grammar.

      ...and now we're back on the topic of cholesterol.

      Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin',
      Tossed salad and scrambled eggs
      Mercy
      And maybe I seem a bit confused,
      Yeah maybe, but I got you pegged!
      Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha!
      But I don't know what to do with those tossed salads and scrambled eggs.
      They're callin' again.

    33. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Lump, unlump, whatever.

      Take all that you know about which fat is better than what fat and give it a rough value as to "how bad or good this is for you"

      Compare that to a similar value for "cut caloric intake by 1/3" and/or "Get 30-60 minutes of high quality vigorous exercise 4-5 days a week"

      You'll quickly find that quibbling about what kind of fat you eat don't even breech the noise floor. We simply eat too much and don't exercise enough. Focus on those problems, then we can worry about less important numbers that amount to little more than marketing later.

    34. Re:Unsettling science by mi · · Score: 1

      Science has well and truly made available everything you need to know about fat

      I am not talking about actual science, but rather about the governmental efforts to push an opinion du jour of a random scientist down everybody's throats (quite literally in this case).

      The development and marketing of fat free foodstuffs was triggered by the government's guidance: "fat is bad for you". The article I linked to states:

      By 1980 that wisdom was codified. The U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) issued its first dietary guidelines, and one of the primary directives was to avoid cholesterol and fat of all ...

      I guess, now we know, USDA can be mistaken. But I find it remarkable, that you seem to attempt to find excuses for government's stupidity by blaming the victims — food-consuming citizens and food-producing corporations alike — for trusting our elected and appointed overlords.

      quite some time ago.

      And yet, the official reversal is only being announced today — the old, wrong policy was reaffirmed yet again only 5 years ago. Is there no criminal culpability, in your opinion?

      How do you tell the last dying diabetic (who kept destroying his health with low fat, but high-carb foods on government's advice), it was all a mistake?

      And lastly, does this not mean, a government official claiming "science is settled", should not be trusted?

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    35. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's not clear that saturated fat is bad for you either. That leaves trans fats as bad, and Omega-6's as questionable.

      The trick is that "the level of cholesterol in the blood" is not a meaningful health indicator. The ratio of LDL to HDL is much more useful. And saturated fat actually makes that ratio slightly better (while raising the values of both). Thus, the best evidence indicates that saturated fat is *good* for you.

      Actually, they're finding while LDL to HDL on average is a good indicator, there are outliers who are at risk, even though those two numbers look good. They're now starting to do tests that break those two categories (LDL and HDL) up further into, I believe, 4 categories that can more accurately show problems the traditional blood tests don't.

    36. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > One can't help, but wonder, what other famously "settled" science will come apart?

      We're looking directly at you global warming and evolution.

    37. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of all the science around "global warming" and "carbon trading schemes", all backed by the power of the gun.

    38. Re:Unsettling science by CWCheese · · Score: 1

      AGW-CC???

      --
      Have a Day!
    39. Re: Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so true, so true mod +100

    40. Re:Unsettling science by SillyHamster · · Score: 1

      Don't blame the science - this is about taking science's name in vain and claiming something is proven when science has always been very up front about the limitations in what, for want of a better word, is called current knowledge.

      When did science become the deity of a religion where its name can be taken in vain and it has agency that men are to respect?

    41. Re:Unsettling science by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Are you telling me that science hates to be anthropomorphized?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    42. Re: Unsettling science by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      The idiots might understand that. The smart people will understand that you're probably at least less wrong today, assuming your change of mind is based on evidence.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    43. Re:Unsettling science by JoeZeppy · · Score: 0

      ...and somewhere in Teabagistan, a village is missing its idiot.

    44. Re:Unsettling science by Rich0 · · Score: 2

      Most MDs aren't biochemists. The extent of their understanding of things like cholesterol's role in the body depends entirely on whether they were paying attention in class that day.

      Add to this the fact that real biochemists don't really understand all the nuances of what is going on. I think our biggest virtue is understanding our own ignorance better and not boldly making statements we can't substantiate.

      Sure, we can correlate HDL/LDL levels/ratios/etc to disease rates, but we really only have a foggy sense of how changing those levels impacts health. Statins seem to work really well, and they definitely lower LDL, but the nature of that relationship is unclear. We know that people with higher HDL seem to be healthier, but on the other hand taking niacin doesn't seem to have much impact on outcomes.

      Much of biochemistry as it applies to humans tends to be like hitting a computer case in a certain spot with a hammer and observing the effects. Maybe we can look at the pieces that fly out under an electron microscope and get a sense for some circuits that used to go somewhere, and maybe we can see what the chips they were a part of look like, but there are lots of details at both the micro and macro scale that we really don't appreciate.

      That isn't a reason to give up on science. We just have to recognize just how little science goes into modern medicine. It isn't that people don't try - it is just really hard to do real science on human beings for ethical reasons. If we could breed humans like we do mice and treat them in the same way, then we'd probably have figured a lot of stuff out by now.

    45. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Blame Walter Mondale. Was he pushing faulty food science as a way to drive dollars back to his constituents? Was he just nuts in much the same way that John Harvey Kellogg was? The world will never know ...

    46. Re:Unsettling science by mi · · Score: 1

      Not very original, are you?

      Please, don't hate.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    47. Re:Unsettling science by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

      Don't blame the science - this is about taking science's name in vain and claiming something is proven when science has always been very up front about the limitations in what, for want of a better word, is called current knowledge. This is what always happens; people don't understand how science works or how scientists think and communicate. When the scientist says 'To the best of current knowledge, eating eggs is probably bad for you, although we really haven't researched that enough' it translates into 'Science says egg is bad for you'.

      To be fair, there are PLENTY of scientists and studies which actively promote their results by emphasizing aspects that go beyond a reasonable interpretation of the data. It may be less common in "hard science" fields, but in "soft sciences" and things like nutritional studies, you'll often see "Discussion" sections at the end of the paper that claim, on the basis of some questionable stats and a sample group of 12, that they have discovered eggs are bad for you, found a cure for cancer, and suggest possible locations for the body of Jimmy Hoffa.

      Okay, I exaggerate a bit. But I've literally had this exact conversation about an egg study in the past couple years with a vegetarian friend who started posting alarmist things on social media concerning eggs -- according to this recent study she read, eggs really WERE bad for you, and in her vegetarian diet, this seemed to be something to worry about since she tended to depend on eggs as a protein source.

      Anyhow, I went and looked first at the press release she linked to. Not only the university promoting the study but the researchers themselves were quoted as saying almost verbatim, "There's been some question about this in the past, but we've shown here that eggs really are bad for you." Sure, there was some minor disclaimer at some point saying, "Further research is needed," etc., but the folks doing this study clearly had an agenda, which became clear when you read their paper.

      I don't know what the agenda was -- maybe the director of the study is a militant vegan and hates the egg industry, or maybe they became convinced that eggs were terrible years ago and are fighting to hold onto their hypothesis, or maybe they just don't like eggs.

      Or maybe, like many researchers, they just need grant money to keep their jobs or get tenure, and they want to draw attention to their work.

      Regardless, the study clearly was full of holes, both from statistical perspective and a design perspective. The sample size was small. They didn't try to control for most obvious confounding variables (like, for example, what else did the people eat in their diets -- it wasn't even mentioned). Etc.

      Look -- I agree with you that media reports tend to exaggerate science and often don't hedge as much as real scientists do. What you fail to account for is that some scientists often want their work to get attention (or are really proud of their pet theory or whatever), so while they may hedge officially in a sentence here or there, they may also be happy to have their results as broadly interpreted and cited as possible. And when they write up a press release or are interviewed, yes, they'll say "We still need further research," but they'll go on to provide all sorts of sweeping conclusions that their research may "suggest." It's no wonder then that media sources get confused.

      (Again, I'm NOT saying all scientists are like this. But if you start reading things like discussion sections in nutrition papers, you'll quickly realize that (1) humans are complex systems, so designing a good experiment and analyzing the data fairly can be really hard, but (2) that often doesn't stop researchers from overstating the possible importance of their results significantly.)

    48. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The idea that anyone would respect any religion over science is hilarious. What exactly has done to deserve "agency that men are to respect"?

      Parent was anthropomorphizing science as a literary device, you dick. YOU decided to take that anthropomorphism to deity level because you have to shove your inane world views into every thing. Thank Science that humans are finally beginning to leave the various fables you call religion to the idiots or uneducated who still need a security blanket for things they don't understand.

    49. Re: Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A big reason for that is the religion doesn't actually change, people just pick and choose what parts they want to follow and in some cases make up entirely new "rules". You average person doesn't understand most of the dogma they claim to believe. A good example of this is the common belief that Immaculate Conception is about the virgin birth. Of course, this makes these people's beliefs and faith worthless and hypocritical but they don't care.

      A more recent development is dogma changes as most religions desperately try to remain relevant in a world that doesn't need them anymore.

    50. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am skeptical of your view but I would like to subscribe to your news letter.

    51. Re:Unsettling science by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      If only. I happen to work on a disease that has no good animal models. And people are notoriously reluctant to let to you section their brains.

    52. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, I finally found one where they blinded the doctors and measured clinical diagnosis rather than a proxy. I really thought it didn't exist, that's why I was so worked up. I still think making so much out of the observational evidence is silly though.
      http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/13963473

    53. Re:Unsettling science by jandersen · · Score: 1

      When did science become the deity of a religion where its name can be taken in vain and it has agency that men are to respect?

      The phrase 'taking [...]'s name in vain" is a useful way to emphasize that you think somebody is misusing a reference to something. I didn't really need to tell you that, did I? Religion is full of colourful language that most people know, and I don't have a grudge against religion as such, only against those that insist on tweaking the thruth to avoid facing up to reality. And unlike religion, science earns the respect that people show it; science doesn't need to demand respect.

    54. Re: Unsettling science by RabidReindeer · · Score: 1

      A big reason for that is the religion doesn't actually change, people just pick and choose what parts they want to follow and in some cases make up entirely new "rules". You average person doesn't understand most of the dogma they claim to believe. A good example of this is the common belief that Immaculate Conception is about the virgin birth. Of course, this makes these people's beliefs and faith worthless and hypocritical but they don't care.

      A more recent development is dogma changes as most religions desperately try to remain relevant in a world that doesn't need them anymore.

      Case in point: the whole "Life Begins at Conception" issue is relatively recent. People didn't generally assume such a thing back when the mortality rate for infants and small children was so high that even naming them was considered a waste of time until they were old enough to be expected to need to be called by name.

      And after all, life doesn't really begin at conception. You cannot conceive from dead gametes any more than a recently-fertilized zygote can exist independently.

      The basis for "sacred life" is ensoulment", and while the moment of fertilization may make for a tidy mark on a line, there's really no reason to believe that ensoulment even occurs before birth. For practical purposes, most people don't really count their lives as having "begun" until they're over 2 years old. Which is long after those who wail about the slaughter of innocent "baby" fetuses have lost interest in how precious they are and at a point in time when many of them are complaining about what a bunch of parasites the little monsters are. Stealing their hard-earned money for welfare programs.

      The irony of the fundamentalists that I have known is that while they claim to have everything based on "Bible Truths", they mostly spend their time spouting one-liner quotes without any sense of the context.

    55. Re:Unsettling science by schitso · · Score: 1

      If you're suggesting that people get their n3 from seeds, it is important to note that the conversion rate from ALA (in seeds) to EPA (then to DHA) in humans is absolutely awful.

    56. Re: Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Moving a mountain is a metaphor. Just in case you didn't know. (but I think you did)

    57. Re:Unsettling science by gth740k · · Score: 1

      It takes me 5 minutes to eat lunch.

      My mother would like to have a word with you. You're going to end up choking one of these days!

    58. Re:Unsettling science by Methadras · · Score: 1

      I believe that government's campaign against cholesterol/fat has had a detrimental effect on peoples health overall. Human beings need fat, but they can't control how their bodies process it. That is beyond the governments ken, but they really need to stay out of how people consume food. These are choices that should be made on an individual basis. It's funny that if government puts out dubious and uncorroborated data and 'science' nothing happens, but if someone else does it, why it's a felonious event practically.

    59. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Eat, drink, and be merry...for tomorrow or the next day we die!

    60. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell, next you are going to tell me you still believe fruit juice is a 'healthy alternative'

      It is a healthy alternative, for one reason and one reason alone. You didn't specify to what.

      Or that energy/sports drinks are somehow good for normal people (not only active atheletes)

      Define "good". If it gets people drinking something who would otherwise be drinking sodas, that is prolly good.

      Perhaps you also believe that sugar alternatives are a perfectly safe alternative?

      I have no idea what a "sugar alternative" is. Or rather, I have no idea what you personally mean by it. Artificial sweeteners? HFCS? Something else entirely?

      Or that calorie intake doesnt matter if you 'balance' it by exercising it back off?

      I've never heard that.

      Maybe that breakfast is somehow 'the most important meal of the day'?

      Well I haven't heard anything to the contrary. Could you provide a citation please?

      OR that small snacks continuously are better than larger means somehow?

      I've heard things on both sides, but have no real opinion.

      Hell, perhaps you even buy pesticide free foods, while having one of these horrors in your house: http://www.raidautomatic.com.a...

      Oh dear lord, I can't imagine ever having something like that just spraying willy-nilly in my home. And I thought the whole pesticide-free thing had to do with "overuse of pesticides produced pesticide-resistant bugs", not "omg you're eating poison!!!" Who the hell doesn't first wash their veggies?

      Or hammer down a handful of supplements every day, when the tiny trace amounts you actually need are present in all your food?

      I don't actually, but I can certainly understand the peace of mind one receives from making absolutely certain that they get it all. Yes, most of it prolly gets pissed away, but the point is peace of mind.

      You could even be crazy enough to think Vitamin C somehow kills viruses!

      Can't say I've ever heard this claim.

    61. Re:Unsettling science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And even in regards to trans fat, it's likely not all trans fats are bad. Vaccinic acid, found in dairy, is associated with lower risk of cancer. It also doesn't lower HDL like omega 6-based trans fats.

    62. Re:Unsettling science by SillyHamster · · Score: 1

      The phrase 'taking [...]'s name in vain" is a useful way to emphasize that you think somebody is misusing a reference to something. I didn't really need to tell you that, did I?

      It's linked to the idea of blasphemy and profanity, which is related to some idea/object being sacred. One does not blaspheme feces, for example.

      The only way you make Science sacred is by elevating it into its own religion ... which it is quite unsuited for.

      I'm not concerned that you're disrespecting some other religion out there. I'm wondering if you recognize those phrases treat science as its own religion. Which makes your contrast of science with religion nonsensical, because science was grouped into the set of religions.

      Makes as much sense as to say, "Unlike fruit, apples are tasty and good for you." Nonsense.

  2. Cereal Killers by labnet · · Score: 4, Informative

    My wife reads about this stuff all the time, and the evidence is starting to point to the food pyramid being upside down!
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt40...
    http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst...

    --
    46137
    1. Re:Cereal Killers by swell · · Score: 1, Interesting

      About time the world wakes up to science and puts down the commerce/government conspiracy to sell starch to a sick, fat, diabetic population. It's not good for your gas tank and it is not good for your body.

      Dr. Atkins showed the way more than 30 years ago and more than 30 million people have a new lease on life thanks to his low carb / high fat diet. Since then the Caveman diet, the Paleo diet, the South Beach Diet and many others have joined the low carb mantra but the goddam medical and government establishment refuse to accept science. It's like global warming- there is no controversy except among the brain deficient. With any luck, the American medical establishment will some day embrace health and stop promoting killer cereals.

      --
      ...omphaloskepsis often...
    2. Re:Cereal Killers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try these too:

      Why we get Fat, by Gary Taubes
      and The Big Fat Surprise, by Nina Teicholz.

      These were actually recommended here in slashdot around new years eve - there was a poll "what you want to do this year bla bla" and one of the options was "lose weight" and someone here recommended these - I dont remember who.

      I recently read those and yes, the pyramid might as well be upside down. Hint: eskimos and african tribes are not fat, and all they eat is fat meat (visceral) and fat itself (blood and milk). Eskimos arent too fond of salads either, and both these tribes only started getting obese and with heart diseases after western contact and the introduction of sugar and flour. No wonder!

      For those wondering what went wrong in the past century of nutritional advice: Think "postwar industrial boom". Who would have though, nutritional science is NOT a "settled" science - so much for something so basic. When all the research grants is paid for by ... corporations :) Procter & Gamble and friends, the people making cereals and whatnot. Duh!

      Anyone remember Crisco?

      Bonus: For those wanting to know the culprits, here are the biggest ones: Ancel Keys (low fat high carb pyramid dude), Walter Willet (the Mediterranean Diet dude), and their cohorts. Unsurprisingly, these are more showmanship than scientific people. Again, what a surprise.

    3. Re:Cereal Killers by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Funny

      My wife reads about this stuff all the time, and the evidence is starting to point to the food pyramid being upside down!

      Nope. They changed the food pyramid from horizontal layers to vertical pie slices. Now inverting it won't fix anything. They saw you coming...

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Cereal Killers by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just make sure that your diet contains all of the four main food groups: Salt, sugar, fat and caffeine.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Cereal Killers by jd2112 · · Score: 2

      Just make sure that your diet contains all of the four main food groups: Salt, sugar, fat and caffeine.

      You forgot alcohol.

      --
      Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
    6. Re:Cereal Killers by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

      I'm thinking we need a revised "Food Incongruous 3D Trapezoid Attached to a Torus."

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    7. Re:Cereal Killers by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Alcohol should be considered more of a vital substrate than a food group.

    8. Re:Cereal Killers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, the four main food groups are: candy, candy canes, candy corns and syrup.

    9. Re:Cereal Killers by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      So I should get the bulk of my nutrition from chocolate and cake, and not from veggies and/or grains (depending on which pyramid we're talking about)?

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    10. Re:Cereal Killers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not a food so much as a vitamin.

    11. Re:Cereal Killers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And Alcohol if you want to live longer

    12. Re:Cereal Killers by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It's more a solvent. It's used to transport some of those groups. Like water, just better.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  3. Good news by manu0601 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    This is good news. We have known for a while that if you reduce cholesterol intake, your liver will produce more so that you get back to your equilibrium.

    But some voices told us recently that a high cholesterol could not the root cause for heart diseases, but just an hint that something is wrong, like fever is not the reason why your are sick, but a consequence.

    1. Re:Good news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you are chattle and the state is paying for your upkeep in medical care, someone must be responsible for you health conditions. What do you think all this blame is for, fun?

    2. Re:Good news by manu0601 · · Score: 1

      Even with latest knowledge that makes cholesterol innocent for heart diseases, what you eat still have a great importance and therefore you are still responsible of your health. Omega 3 / omega 6 fat ratio seems to play a major role, so does trans fats and refined carbs.

      In other words, no need to throw egg yolks because of the cholesterol they contain, but junk food is still bad for your health.

  4. Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When will this become part of a government-approved lifestyle? I can hardly wait.

    1. Re:Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      Go ahead and live that lifestyle. I suspect it's already the lifestyle our government leaders are living.

    2. Re:Sex, Drugs and Rock and Roll by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      You sure about the sex part? I heard a lot of them plays golf.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  5. George George George of the Junlgle Watch Out For by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That Tree!

    Did you know cholesteral is free in non-animail products? Free as in beer? I wonder.

  6. The Greater Danger by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 4, Informative

    The greater danger, according to this line of thought, lies in foods heavy with trans fats and saturated fats

    Oh, for Pete's sake - they have a chance to fix a 40 year old error and are replacing it with a 20 year old error.

    Yes, trans fats are the nasty but saturated fat is fine for you - that's been proven time and again over the past decade.

    The big problem for cardiac disease and cancer is sugar (specifically free fructose). It gets metabolized by the liver into triglycerides which make the blood vessels 'sticky' and promote the growth of atherlosclerotic plaque, and cancer eats it as a premium fuel.

    All of my blood panels are markedly improved after making the switch myself. My combined cardiovascular risk score is down by about 50% in less than a year.

    The "greater danger" is relying on the government to tell you what's good to eat. There are always competing interests and your health isn't more important than the corn lobby.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:The Greater Danger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I finally got sick of listening go the organic food debate so I took this course from edX https://www.edx.org/course/introduction-nutrition-food-health-wageningenx-nutr101x, and it supports bill_mcgonigle posts. So yeah, I get my food advice from Science, over Government (out of date), Media (the more Copy the better), or Church (based on Myths)!

    2. Re:The Greater Danger by taiwanjohn · · Score: 1

      This. I'll just add my recommendation for "The Straight Dope on Cholesterol" by Dr. Peter Attia. It's available in both text and video formats.

      --
      XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve your problem, you're not using enough of it. --AC
    3. Re:The Greater Danger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has fructose actually been shown to cause/be associated with atherosclerosis in humans (not just rabbits or mice)?

    4. Re:The Greater Danger by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2

      The sugar lobby is a powerful force in US politics - fructose is produced from corn. The government is going to be very reluctant to upset the agricultural industry - not only are they a major source of campaign contributions, but some of the swing states have substantial agricultural industries employing a lot of people.

    5. Re:The Greater Danger by Teun · · Score: 1

      I'm all for a varied diet that would obviously include some of the stuff classed unhealthy by some.

      The problem is in the word "too", it happens when we ingest too much of one or the other.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
    6. Re:The Greater Danger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All of my blood panels are markedly improved after making the switch myself. My combined cardiovascular risk score is down by about 50% in less than a year.

      ...says the risk scorecard determined by your government.

      This is the same organization that mandates the use of BMI to measure the masses to determine who's fat or not. Scorecards could tend to be slightly skewed based on policy and palm pressing, but hey who's to say your doctor's prescription pad could ever be manipulated by pharmaceutical companies...that would never happen, right?

      Yes, I'm sure everyone involved is on the up and up. Now if you'll excuse me, I've got to go refer to my sponsored food pyramid for breakfast.

    7. Re:The Greater Danger by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 1

      It gives me cringe when I hear people say that they trust to gov't to tell what is good for us. I once asked a doctor "Do you trust the gov't to tell what is best for our health?" and he said "Yes" without hesitating.

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
    8. Re:The Greater Danger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The big problem for cardiac disease and cancer is sugar (specifically free fructose). It gets metabolized by the liver into triglycerides which make the blood vessels 'sticky' and promote the growth of atherlosclerotic plaque, and cancer eats it as a premium fuel.

      I don't even know where to start with this. It's like reading how vaccines cause autism.

    9. Re:The Greater Danger by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Yes, trans fats are the nasty but saturated fat is fine for you - that's been proven time and again over the past decade.

      One of the problems is conversion of unsaturated fats to saturated fats, a process called hydrogenation (because it's adding hydrogen to the carbon chain - remember each carbon can have 4 bonds, and in unsaturated fats some of those bonds are double bonds, adding hydrogen turns those double bonds into single bonds).

      The problem is chirality - you can get hydrogen bonding "in the wrong place" so turning a cis- version into a trans- version. The trans- version (hence trans fats) is bad for you, while the cis- version isn't so bad.

      Of course, until the discovery of the chirality (and chirality affects a lot of things) of saturated fats, they probably got mixed together (they're still saturated fats, after all) and the original problem was because of the hidden trans- version. Of course, these days we can identify which we have far more accurately.

      Chirality is an annoyance in chemistry - one gets you an inert molecule that doesn't do anything, the other gets you something really reactive, and it just depends on where the atoms decided to bond.

    10. Re:The Greater Danger by hankwang · · Score: 1

      "until the discovery of the chirality (and chirality affects a lot of things) of saturated fats, they probably got mixed together (they're still saturated fats, after all) and the original problem was because of the hidden trans- version."

      I think you are mixing up things. Trans and cis fats are both unsaturated fats, with double bonds. Saturated fatty acids have no chirality. (Well... Triglycerides are technically often chiral (the middle carbon atom of the glycerol backbone), but that's not relevant for the cis/trans/saturated discussion.)

    11. Re:The Greater Danger by quantaman · · Score: 1

      The greater danger, according to this line of thought, lies in foods heavy with trans fats and saturated fats

      Oh, for Pete's sake - they have a chance to fix a 40 year old error and are replacing it with a 20 year old error.

      Yes, trans fats are the nasty but saturated fat is fine for you - that's been proven time and again over the past decade.

      How foolish for the government to base nutrition advice on an insufficiently verified hypothesis!

      The big problem for cardiac disease and cancer is sugar (specifically free fructose). It gets metabolized by the liver into triglycerides which make the blood vessels 'sticky' and promote the growth of atherlosclerotic plaque, and cancer eats it as a premium fuel.

      All of my blood panels are markedly improved after making the switch myself. My combined cardiovascular risk score is down by about 50% in less than a year.

      The "greater danger" is relying on the government to tell you what's good to eat. There are always competing interests and your health isn't more important than the corn lobby.

      Everyone should follow my nutrition advice based on an insufficiently verified hypothesis!!

      --
      I stole this Sig
  7. The Science is Settled Damnit!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Nothing but a bunch of deniers funded by big Butter

    1. Re:The Science is Settled Damnit!!! by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      The big global larding conspiracy?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  8. it did take a loooong time! by serbanp · · Score: 1

    It took 10 years after the supreme-bastard Ancel Keys died to finally start telling the truth.

    They still have to exonerate the saturated fats and start pointing some fingers at the poly-unsaturated ones, but it's a good development.

  9. When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by ConstantineM · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Most adults, worldwide, are lactose intolerant. http://skeptics.stackexchange....

    Given the above, it's kind of amazing that Nutrition Facts still have no words about lactose content. Why?

    Wouldn't it be nice to know how much lactose each food has?

    1. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      sure, a sample of 20 adults is what this "proof" was based on 18 Female 2 male - how about we start listing the thetan content of food I can probably find 20 people who follow Scientology to swear its in food.

    2. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by swell · · Score: 1

      Well, uh, I wonder if it has anything to do with the powerful dairy lobby. In the US state of Wisconsin, it was / is(?) against the law for margarine to be colored yellow. The dairy association wants everyone to be able to know the 'real thing' on sight. The US government spent untold millions subsidizing the dairy industry on the pretense that it was 'essential' to human health. For decades welfare recipients have received cheese products from massive nationwide warehouses stocked with cheese that the government bought from the dairy industry as a form of corporate welfare.

      You are correct that few adult humans are able to digest milk properly. Few, if any, adult animals consume milk. And, BTW, low fat milk, like most low fat products, is depriving consumers of essential nutrition. Real butter and cheese are probably good for you.

      In conclusion, the dairy industry, like the soft drink industry and the cereal / bread / corn / wheat / soy / potato / rice / sugar and canned starchy vegetables ... industry and many others are sucking at the teat of the taxpayer and your elected officials are promoting those who pay for their re-election at the cost of your family's health.

      --
      ...omphaloskepsis often...
    3. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are correct that few adult humans are able to digest milk properly.

      25% isn't few, nor should the US dairy industry care about it since these 25% are mostly people living or descending of people in Europe - which should include most of the US population.

    4. Re: When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh, stop whining and get a Darwin award instead. People are lactose intolerant because of genes getting bad combinations, after all, we should not tolerate these people procreating and polluting the gene pool even more. Guess what - there are countries with zero lactose intorrerant people; guess what they eat there - yogurt, the real tart, sour, fermented full fat with cream yogurt, not the sugary starchy concoction they pass as yogurt in usa.

    5. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by ledow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Strangely, when I was a child, so few people were "intolerant" (which does not have a strict meaning at all) of any food that you'd never heard of it. Kids with REAL allergies couldn't leave home in case they came into contact with a nut.

      Nowadays, I work in schools, and the last time I asked the school nurses about 50% of children had notes that they were intolerant or allergic to some food. I asked them how many were ever likely to actually have a reaction in class unless someone shoved something down their throat - the answer was, unofficially, less than 1%. The number of times the epipens were required? Once or twice a year among 400+ children.

      And the "intolerant" ones were ones who didn't like milk, and so their parents classed that as intolerant or bothered their doctor until he said that magic word for them. It means precisely zip.

      Above and beyond that, even the strictest of severe allergies can be tamed by - guess what - controlled exposure to the substance in question. Give a nut-allergy sufferer sufficiently small injections of nuts and build it up gradually and the allergy goes away. (Oh, and P.S. peanuts are legumes - literally peas - not nuts, and hence someone who has a "nut" allergy to peanuts and other genuine nuts is quite difficult to explain in those terms).

      How many people are genuinely lactose-intolerant? Those from cultures who don't consume lactose. For the same reason that Westerners smell of rotten milk to the Eastern cultures where much less dairy is consumed, they are likely to not be able to stomach lactose because it's not been in their diet since their birth. Diet is as much about established gut cultures as it as anything else.

      Consume lactose and you won't be lactose intolerant. Scaremonger and we'll ALL be lactose intolerant in a couple of generations. In the same way, that many more people are genuinely allergic to nuts now because mothers refuse to consume them during pregnancy. Why? Scaremongering.

      Kiwi is the biggest one now, they say, and that's because - well, who eats a lot of kiwi?

      Everything in moderation, and don't impose your diet problems on me and my children. And in return I promise I'll never shove a hamburger down your throat, or ban vegetables, if you're vegan.

    6. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Though, mind you: I get annoying (but not dangerous, so I don't make an issue of it) hives from *green* kiwis but not yellow ones. Given that I've only had a couple of yellow kiwis in my life, but repeatedly run into the green ones ... it seems unlikely to be exposure alone.

    7. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The number of times the epipens were required? Once or twice a year among 400+ children.

      So what you're saying is that unless a child is going into anaphylactic shock, that whatever they're eating is perfectly good for them? That seems like an awfully high bar.

      How many people are genuinely lactose-intolerant? Those from cultures who don't consume lactose.

      Actually, it's anyone who doesn't have a specific gene only present in certain white people. Those people have managed to fuck their way around a bit, so some other people have it now too, but in most populations of not-that-white people it's not-that-prevalent.

      Consume lactose and you won't be lactose intolerant

      Sigh. "Lactose intolerance in adulthood is caused by gradually decreasing activity (expression) of the LCT gene after infancy, which occurs in most humans." So most children can drink milk without significant ill effect, but most adults cannot. And it doesn't have to send you to the hospital with a restricted airway to have significant negative health effects.

      In the same way, that many more people are genuinely allergic to nuts now because mothers refuse to consume them during pregnancy.

      I'm sorry, has this been proven? Or are you just making more unfounded assertions?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    8. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by tburkhol · · Score: 1

      Give a nut-allergy sufferer sufficiently small injections of nuts and build it up gradually and the allergy goes away. (Oh, and P.S. peanuts are legumes - literally peas - not nuts, and hence someone who has a "nut" allergy to peanuts and other genuine nuts is quite difficult to explain in those terms).

      (Everyone knows this, but we're just too lazy to keep saying "peanut" all the time) It turns out that "allergies" have a spectrum. About 80% of people with childhood food allergies outgrow them. For peanuts in particular, about 20% of people will outgrow their reaction.. A small number of allergy sufferers experience severe anaphylaxis. These are the people for whom epi-pens were developed, and there are probably 5000 of them in the US. These people can not likely be acclimated to their allergen by repeated exposure.

      How many people are genuinely lactose-intolerant?

      The incidence of adult lactose intolerance ranges from about 2% among Scandinavians through 20-40% among central Europeans and white US, to nearly 100% in southeast Asia. Source It seems to be less about your gut microbiome and more about recent evolution: if you come from a culture that exploited cattle and sheep, being able supplement calories with milk or cheese helped you survive the winter, and you evolved to maintain lactase expression post-weaning.

      Inability to digest certain foods are legitimate pathologies. Celiac disease is a real thing; Lactase production is genetically regulated. You can't cure them by force-feeding. They may be over-diagnosed, egged on by hypochondriac parents and overworked physicians, but just because enjoy a good slice of cheese on crackers with peanut butter doesn't mean everyone can be 'trained' to eat them.

    9. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by Gilgaron · · Score: 1

      You are probably right about scaremongering, but wrong about a few things: lactose tolerance results from a mutation that allows (some) humans to persist in making the required enzyme, lactase, after they wean. Mostly mammals stop, even most humans, when they wean. This is a very useful mutation for settled humans and has spread relatively quickly as far as alleles go, and cultures that could ingest lactose do tend to since it is so useful for cultures with domestication. For someone whose genetics allow lactase persistence, I assume that levels of lactose ingestion influence enzyme levels but it won't work for, say, a Han. Nut allergies, and some food allergies, turn out to be dependent on prevailing tree species and their pollen. Google search about the distribution of people allergic to apples in Europe (mostly unheard of in the US). It follows tree demographics. Making yourself anergic via ingestion of small amounts of your allergen will work but can be dangerous depending on your reactivity/titer, so I wouldn't advise it without consulting an allergist. For example, if I injected you with a large amount of harmlessly killed bacteria, you would die of shock as your immune system overreacted. Thusly a severe allergy cannot be treated as a DIY procedure.

    10. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

      It's been my experience that 90% of child food allergies are caused by batshit-crazy mothers.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    11. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But most people in the US are not. Worldwide is meaningless.

    12. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (Oh, and P.S. peanuts are legumes - literally peas - not nuts, and hence someone who has a "nut" allergy to peanuts and other genuine nuts is quite difficult to explain in those terms).

      /quote>
      It's generally not an allergy to the "nut" so much as the fungus (Aspergillus flavus and A. parasiticus) that grows on it in storage. Store them under similar circumstances, similar fungi grow.

    13. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by ConstantineM · · Score: 1

      Above and beyond that, even the strictest of severe allergies can be tamed by - guess what - controlled exposure to the substance in question. Give a nut-allergy sufferer sufficiently small injections of nuts and build it up gradually and the allergy ...

      The above is complete BS that has no proof whatsoever with science.

      On the contrary, science tells us that these things work the other way around:

      http://smithsonianscience.org/...

      Ten to 15 percent of people are immune to poison ivy and will never have a rash. Repeated contact however will not give you immunity, in fact just the opposite, Pell explains. “The rashes get worse and worse as your immune system gets better and better at recognizing urushiol.”

    14. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by ConstantineM · · Score: 1

      But most people in the US are not. Worldwide is meaningless.

      Where did you get such information? Even if less than 50% of people in the US are lactose intolerant, the number is unlikely to be that far away from 50%. Most people aren't even aware they're lactose intolerant.

    15. Re:When will Lactose make it to Nutrition Facts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, for some allergies, controlled exposure can reduce the allergic response. It's called desensitization therapy, and while it's not foolproof, it can do a good job for some things. We're starting to learn some really neat things about allergies and immune tolerance, so I'd expect that 20-30 years from now, most allergies will have some sort of cure.

      Well, a cure that isn't "kill all B cells/plasma cells", because that would technically do it, but is really not a good idea for most people.

  10. No wonder people stop "believing in science" by MrKrillls · · Score: 2

    When government and or media don't interpret and disseminate science results faithfully, things like this happen. The story changes and changes again and then ordinary people, who once listened and took what information came out of government and media to heart, stop believing the public explications of science and start doubting experts of all kinds. I have a suspicion that long ago, the folks who did the underlying science on nutrition tried to tell the bureaucrats that the work is complex and not yet certain, but that such precautions were lost on the decision makers at the agencies. Scientists in general are pretty careful with sweeping generalities. Maybe bureaucrats (and me) not so much. Result: antivaxxers who trust nothing they dislike or that worries them; climate change denial, tin hat behaviour of all sorts.

    --
    Don't step on the baby.
  11. Cholesterol not bad? by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

    There goes my investment in Cheerios!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  12. Every food by Snufu · · Score: 1

    gets 15 minutes of fame and 15 minutes of infamy.

    I'm waiting for science to catch up to the merits of the all cheetos diet.

  13. Finally the idiots stop believing sympathic magic by chromaexcursion · · Score: 2

    That consuming cholesterol actually causes an increase in someone's cholesterol level was never well founded.
    It has always fallen in the sympathetic category from any evidence I've ever seen. Tropical oils, which have no cholesterol seem to cause far more problems than butter and eggs.
    Diet is the least well understood health issue. Worse, it varies widely between individuals. Perhaps the in'duh'viduals in the FDA have finally caught on.
    Given the number of times they've revised dietary recommendations, one can only assume doctors must have been (maybe still are) really ignorant; at least about diet.

    NOTE: I said ignorant. For a profession that likes to present itself as all knowing that is an issue. To deny it is stupid.

  14. more clarity on fats, targets or ceilings? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A deeper understanding of what's important is needed.

    For instance, those who regard fats as evil might feel differently if they realized that some fats are precursors to production of some hormones. Pay attention to how variations in your diet affectss the way you feel.

  15. We Need A New FDA Warning Label by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Warning: Nutritionists, Doctors and Scientists don't know jack shit about what constitutes a healthy diet and anything anyone says about calories, fat, protein, carbohydrates, cholesterol in your diet is pure bullshit

    1. Re:We Need A New FDA Warning Label by Bongo · · Score: 1

      So people can try a diet/lifestyle for themselves and see how it goes, being sceptical but still trying it. Some people try LCHF and become fans of it. Some become vegans and become fans of it. The hard part is that it takes decades to figure out if it works for you, and even then you can't be sure. People say, oh I'm vegan and feel amazingly healthy... at the age of 30. Yeah, but how will it work out for you in 30 years' time? Some people run marathons to lose weight, and after their 30th marathon they are still overweight and say, well, obviously I need to run a few more! Personally I tried LCHF and found unexpected good results (emotionally, mental focus, energy levels, etc. and weight). But that's my impression of my experience of what seems to work for me, and YMMV.

    2. Re:We Need A New FDA Warning Label by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

      I have one for the great state of California.

      WARNING: Life kills!

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    3. Re:We Need A New FDA Warning Label by judoguy · · Score: 1
      The science is very clear on this and has been for a long time.

      The problem is that "nutritionists" pay no attention to the actual science. "We don't need no steekin science! We KNOW that dietary fat and cholesterol are bad for you!"

      The real science has been known for many years, all the way down to the eicosanoid hormone level. Endocrinologists know this stuff. General practice M.D.s don't. They just parrot the Statin salesmen.

      --
      Peace is easy to achieve, just surrender. Liberty is much harder get/keep.
    4. Re:We Need A New FDA Warning Label by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Warning, living is known to the state of California to be a cause of cancer.

  16. Re:It was U.S. government supported FRAUD. by meglon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I would suggest that, once again, things mentioned as "government fraud" are actually that great free market taking advantage of a situation. The "government" doesn't market products as gluten-free, low-fat, or reduced fat, nor do they go around throwing extra water and various thickeners into foods.... private companies do. So while the government puts forth guidelines to help people based on the CURRENT best nutritional science, it's PRIVATE COMPANIES who do everything you're blaming the government for.

    Tell you what though, that big nasty corrupt government also has guidelines for the limits of pesticides, arsenic, and all sorts of toxic substances found in your drinking water too. If you want to really impress on me how much you think our government is always wrong, please be my guest to start drinking water with massive amounts of those things in it, and get back to us in a month of two.

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  17. I don't understand by meglon · · Score: 1

    Why is there an article on /. about diets? I mean, really? Mountain Dew, Cheetos, pizza, nachos, doughnuts, and coffee; everything else is just moot for this crowd.

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  18. time for an anecdotal dog and pony. by nimbius · · Score: 2

    diet and exercise are important determinants of your cholesterol and overall health. as a vegan, I typically find getting enough saturated fat to be a challenge but this hasnt been the case in the american diet for the last 40 years.

    the book, sugar salt fat by Michael Moss highlights important and often uncontrolled changes in the american diet over the past 50 years. the combination of ever greater amounts of these 3 ingredients in a race toward addiction and market dominance created a crisis in american health that was only compounded by our ever sedentary lifestyles. at its peak, a lunchable had 300% of the RDA of sodium in a single serving and a hungry man dinner was approaching 3000 calories. This trend was abated largely due to tobacco companies entering the prepared and processed foods industry with dire warnings. Just like cigarettes, food products that contribute directly toward high levels of preventable disease can be regulated into oblivion and entire brands can go extinct in the public interest. Manufacturers have pulled back, but generally where one declines another rises. Less salt? more fat. less sugar? more salt. manufactured, processed foods without these additives generally taste very similar to the machines theyre made on

    another contribution to the obesity epidemic is the inability to cook a healthy meal. this is due partly to the USDAs dual mandate to promote as well as police the industry, but its also partly because home economics was supplanted by the Kraft corporation largely to ensure boxed meals, prepared casserole dishes, stir fry and rice seasonings had a section in the market. Betty Crocker and Sarah Lee became surrogate homemakers people could aspire to; they never existed outside of a marketing meeting. And so the average grocery store is just a clever arrangement of corn, soy, and rice products not because people crave these items, but because theyre durable commodities that store and trade well. Most americans wouldnt know a jicama from a yucca root, or a rutabaga from a turnip, because the US grocery store has no discernable season.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:time for an anecdotal dog and pony. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most americans wouldnt know a jicama from a yucca root, or a rutabaga from a turnip, because the US grocery store has no discernable season.

      If you're expecting us to grab the torches and pitchforks because technology has enabled us to have many varieties of produce available year-round, then you must have somehow mistaken this forum for luddites.org.

      Besides, your conclusion is prima facie absurd. Most Americans wouldn't notice even if your luddite idea to regress to seasonality were implemented, because most Americans don't now, or will ever, cook with fresh produce.

      Don't begrudge me my year round avocados. Doubly so if you're doing it out of some sort of ecowarrior luddism. Do you think I care if they come from New Zealand? Only insofar as I occasionally ponder how cool that is from a logistical standpoint.

    2. Re:time for an anecdotal dog and pony. by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It's human nature to crave certain things which were vital to our primitive ancestors. High-energy scarcities like fat and sugar were of vital importance when you could never be sure of catching a daily meal, especially when winter came and the plant supplies dried up. When you put someone evolved as a hunter-gatherer into a supermarket, the old instincts are just inappropriate.

  19. what didn't kill your ancestors ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... probasbly won't kill you. studies done by putting american native populations back on their ancestral diets after suffering by eating the standard american diet have shown that the traditional diets produce a healthier lifestyle. i'd extend this to say that pretty much everyone would benefit by eating the same diet their ancestors did. not that everyone should eat a native american diet but each person eat what their particular ancestors ate.

    1. Re:what didn't kill your ancestors ... by tburkhol · · Score: 1

      Most of the humans that came before you died as children. Most of your ancestors were killed by injury, infection, or parasites before they made it to 60 years old. In that environment, diet is not a huge risk factor. If you want to live to 90, or if you want to be able to move around on your own for a couple of decades after 60, then diet and activity are more important.

  20. The Greater Danger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are right. Saturated fat is not dangerous. Neither is cholesterol:
    1. Eating food containing cholesterol does not affect your cholesterol levels much. (The body can transform it into other substances, as it does with so many other substances we eat.)
    2. High cholesterol levels have no connection to cardiovascular problems for men. For women, the connection is inverse. (Those with low cholesterol has higher risk of heart attack than those whith high levels.) To stay healthy, make sure your cholesterol isn't too low.

    Most trans fats are artifical, there is very little trans fat in nature. No surprise that our bodies can't handle that stuff well.

  21. the blame? by pbjones · · Score: 1

    while most people here are blaming the Government, remember that they acted on the advice of others, which have made themselves rich handing out crap advice. BTW, this current advice is still no reason to pig out on fried eggs and greasy bacon. :-)

    --
    There was an unknown error in the submission.
    1. Re:the blame? by bledri · · Score: 1

      ... BTW, this current advice is still no reason to pig out on fried eggs and greasy bacon. :-)

      Who needs a reason beyond the fact that they are delicious?

      --
      Some privacy policy Slashdot.
    2. Re:the blame? by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      People tend to seek advice they wish to hear. That's why every Christmas you'll start to see a few stories in the media along the lines of 'Scientists show chocolate is good for you.' The science hasn't changed - just that some writer has been assigned to write the standard seasonal piece reassuring readers that it's allowable to pig out for a month, and gone on a quest for some paper they can misreport.

  22. Re:Finally the idiots stop believing sympathic mag by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 1

    That consuming cholesterol actually causes an increase in someone's cholesterol level was never well founded.

    It has always fallen in the sympathetic category from any evidence I've ever seen. Tropical oils, which have no cholesterol seem to cause far more problems than butter and eggs.

    Vitamin D is produced in the body from the action of sunlight on cholesterol.

    I've often wondered if high cholesterol is a symptom of low vitamin D caused by lack of sunlight in our daily lives. High cholesterol could be the body's response to low vitamin D levels, its attempt to get more production from a low-sunlight environment.

    Any biochemists care to comment on this?

  23. The Greater Danger by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    One of my comments about Saturated fat. Ever stop to think exactly what kind of fat the human body stores it's excess energy as?

    One of my other notes is that consumption of sugar went up dramatically 1900 to 2000. Consumption of trans-fats also went up dramatically 1900-1990. And Smoking also went up dramatically 1900-1960.

    Meanwhile consumption butter went _down_ 1900-present. Consumption of animal fats went down 1970-present.

    Heart disease went up 1900-1970. Type II Diabetes still increasing.

    Yeah it's the saturated fats and salt. Sure...

  24. Corr: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ** That should read ALA, not APA.

  25. Stop believing? Hardly. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's just that someone's career is riding on a switch in beliefs. That's not a substantial change, it's just different trappings for the same thing: Belief, as in the following of a "gut feeling concencus". This in contrast to the hard work of diseminating the evidence and thinking about it. Then again, not hard to see why government agency bureaucrats would prefer the former over the latter: The science, where it exists, is nigh-on decipherable, whereas "going with the flow" requires nary a thought. So the scapegoat method is much easier, it just needs a new scapegoat every now and then. That this one lasted 40 years just means it was quite a good one. The average fad-diet often doesn't live to see its second year.

  26. Read the book. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 0

    If you want many examples of that idea being incorrect, read the book.

  27. Re: food pyramid vs calories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I agree that the food pyramid is broken, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's upside down. I think the real problem is that we standardized on a 2000 calorie diet for women and a 2500 calorie diet for men.

    From a population average point of view (yes, I know real people will vary), a 30-year-old, 5' 10" male with a desk job and no extra exercise that consumes 2100 calories will weigh about 160 lbs and have a body mass index of 23.0 (ideal). If that same individual eats 2500 calories/day, he will reach 180 lbs (25.6 bmi = overweight) in about 7 months, 200 lbs (28.7 bmi = overweight) in about 20 months, and he will eventually peak at about 213 lbs (30.6 bmi = obese). If the same man continues to eat 2500 calories when he's 40, he will increase to 224 lbs (32.1 bmi = obese) due to slower metabolism. At age 50, he will weigh 235 (33.7 bmi = obese), and at age 60 he will weigh 246 (35.3 bmi = obese). If we're telling men to eat 2500 calories, then it's no surprise that the average adult male is overweight or obese.

    Similar calculation for women: a 30-year-old, 5' 4" woman with a desk job and no extra activity that consumes 1675 calories will weigh about 134 lbs and have a body mass index of 23.0 (ideal). If the same woman instead eats 2000 calories per day, she will balloon up to 196 lbs (33.6 bmi = obese). By age 40, she'll weigh 207 lbs (35.5 bmi = obese). By age 50, she'll be 218 lbs (37.4 bmi = obese). And by age 60, she will weigh 228 (39.2 bmi = obese). Again, if we're telling women to eat 2000 calories, it's no surprise that the average adult woman is obese.

    Disclaimer: These figures are based on the Harris-Benedict equation. Anyone here can freely check my calculations if you think I'm wrong. It's possible I've fat-fingered some numbers typing them here.

    p.s. Personal anecdote: I'm a vertically-challenged 40-year-old male who was overweight at 25.9 bmi five years ago. For the past 5 years I've recorded my weight and calorie consumption into a spreadsheet every day and computed my actual calorie requirements very precisely. Anecdotally, for me the Harris-Benedict equation is accurate to within 10 calories/day. Today my current body mass index is 22.7 (ideal). I eat whatever I feel like eating, but I try to keep my portions small enough that my overall intake is close to my daily requirements, which are now less than 1900 calories/day. If I ate 2000 calories per day, I would have a bmi of 25.0 (overweight); if I ate 2500 calories, I'd have a bmi of 35.3 (obese).

  28. Eat what you like; Enjoy what you eat by msobkow · · Score: 1

    Eat what you like and enjoy what you eat. No mere dietary changes are going to protect you from death. Stop worrying about your death. Enjoy the life you have while you have it!

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
  29. Re:It was U.S. government supported FRAUD. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    I would suggest that, once again, things mentioned as "government fraud" are actually that great free market taking advantage of a situation.

    There's no difference. Government fraud is how you do that. First you buy yourself some congresscritters, that gets you some positions. Then you move your employees into these positions where they are in a position to influence government on your behalf. Then when they're done, you actually hire them back into your structure again, because there's no laws against revolving door policies in Washington. Hope this helps you understand how the system works. Are you new?

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  30. Re:It was U.S. government supported FRAUD. by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

    Funnily enough, I often encounter the opposite - foods that shouldn't contain gluten often have wheat added to them (presumably because wheat is a cheap ingredient). Things like onion bhajis (which are traditionally made with gram flour) in supermarkets are now made with wheat instead. I've picked up packets of soft tortillas that are advertised as "corn tortillas", but they're basically wheat tortillas with some corn added to them. WTF?

    --
    You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
  31. Re: food pyramid vs calories by labnet · · Score: 5, Informative

    calorific intake is too simplistic. Gut bacteria greatly effects HOW the food we eat is metabolised. Some of the energy is consumed by bacteria, and some shoots out the backside. There was a recent case of a normal weight woman getting a fecal transplant from an obese donor, and now this woman has become obese but not changed her diet and lifestyle.

    --
    46137
  32. America's most beloved jester by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in the court and circus that is American politics. He will be only remembered as someone who made the bread and laughter go around.

  33. Nice! by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    I celebrated these news with an 8 egg omelet.

  34. Re:Yes, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    According to the (British) Green Party, non-alarmists should be sacked from Government posts, even if their job is unrelated to the climate change scam.

  35. Re:It was U.S. government supported FRAUD. by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I would suggest that, once again, things mentioned as "government fraud" are actually that great free market taking advantage of a situation.

    Its not the free market which forced this specific food labeling. Are you following along at all?

    The title of this story isnt "Free Market To Withdraw Warnings About Dietary Cholesterol"

    --
    "His name was James Damore."
  36. Re:It was U.S. government supported FRAUD. by tburkhol · · Score: 1

    The same fraud is happening now with gluten. Even foods that never had gluten are being advertised as gluten-free.

    This is not fraud, it's marketing. Of course there's no gluten in your peanut butter. No one who takes a moment to think about it would find this either surprising or a selling feature. Most people don't take that moment, though. They will happily choose the "No added arsenic" product over the unlabeled alternative, even though neither of them actually has arsenic.

    Gluten is an awesome example of popular gullibility. For the 0.5-1% of people with defective HLA-DQ genes, gluten is a serious problem. For them, knowing whether a product contains gluten is as important for the peanut-allergic to know whether it contains peanuts. Labeling complex foods as gluten free targets the Celiac disease population and helps these people. Now you've got products labeled as "gluten free," and the public, including physicians, media, and pop-nutrition hucksters can start weaving this into their otherwise uninformed narratives.

    Foods advertised as "low-fat" or "reduced fat" are often foods with extra water that include various thickeners.

    Once again, this is free-market pressure, not government conspiracy or fraud. It turns out that, if you remove the fats from food, it tastes awful and feels chalky. People don't buy those products twice, and your company goes out of business. Thickening proteins and sugar are added to mask the absence of fats and make the food palatable.

  37. Listen to your Uncle, he knows the score by Charcharodon · · Score: 1, Insightful
    Fat is bad!!! Cholesterol is bad bad bad bad BAD!!!!

    Huh, wait, you're telling me that people are fat and their cholesterol is high because they are fat and lazy and not because they eat lot's of it.......

    We actually caused damage to people's health and made the fat epidemic worse by getting people to pursue diets that were more in line with farm subsidies than things that are healthy............

    Well fuck, now how are we supposed to be able to tell people what to do and how to live??!!

    Refined sugar is bad! Bad bad bad bad BAD!!!!!!

  38. Re:It was U.S. government supported FRAUD. by rikkards · · Score: 1

    Extra crispy fries = wheat

  39. Re:It was U.S. government supported FRAUD. by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

    Too true. Thai food is another problem - proper Thai food won't have any wheat, but buy it from a supermarket and you get crab cakes covered in breadcrumbs and its ilk. I take the view that if it's in a packet in the supermarket then it's probably got wheat in it somewhere (unless I check).

    --
    You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
  40. Every other year another boogeyman by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    What has not been the root of all evil in our food yet? For a time eggs were the evil. Then suddenly the protein was great and the fat in the yolk was essential. Then of course fat was the big killer with cholesterol being the worst since Hitler died. Then we suddenly had "good" and "bad" cholesterol, kinda like devil and angel sitting on our back, with them now swirled into our bread spread. Then it was the bread itself that was killing us. And just recently I learned that milk, which we've always been told to be the epitome of healthy drinking, may well be quite literally poisonous for adults.

    You know what this reminds me of? Advertising in the communist world. No, really, there was advertising in Commie countries. Of course to make you buy stuff, but not what's most profitable (that would be capitalist), no, to make you buy whatever crap was available. Supported all the times with new and important scientific findings. Depending on whatever stuff was plentiful and whatever was scarce, you could set your watch that no moment later some scientist will jump up and declare that whatever we are stockpiling is healthy for you but whatever was in short supply could well kill you.

    Translated to capitalist terms, I'd guess that whatever is declared healthy is whatever produces the most revenue for whoever invented and patented some new "healthy" product, and lethal would be anything that can't be sold with a huge profit margin.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    1. Re:Every other year another boogeyman by azav · · Score: 1

      I think egg yolks still are.

      --
      - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
    2. Re:Every other year another boogeyman by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Google "egg yolk healthy" and enjoy a barrage of information on why they are awesomely healthy now.

      True? I don't know. I don't care. There's so much bullshit flying around when it comes to food and health that it just ain't funny anymore, how should a normal person even tell what's sensible research and what some new age cook pulled out of his ass?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  41. Re: food pyramid vs calories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The other thing that makes it more complicated is the human body. It self regulates so much stuff. Start eating less and it'll start working more efficiently, start recovering more energy from foods and other secondary and tertiary effects. Drastic cutting of calorie intake is also very unproductive Body weight also fluctautes through the day and week. All of these cause a lot of anguish at attempting to lose weight. Especially as you go along you generally have to start eating slightly less over time.

  42. No affect on blood cholesterol levels? by azav · · Score: 1

    OK. I'll tell you a story.

    I was a pretty fit guy and during the day, I'd leave me company, walk next door and get these lovely ham and egg croissants.

    I'd do it twice a day.

    At my yearly checkup, my blood free cholesterol evel was up to 326, a good number for a fucking batting average.

    After thinking about what could have caused this, I asked the cook how many eggs were in the croissants and was told that there were 2 per croissant.

    I was eating 4 eggs with their yolks each day.

    I changed my twice daily request for croissants to be with egg whites and ham.

    With that dietary change alone, my blood cholesterol level dropped to 190.

    Nothing else. Just getting rid of the egg yolks dropped my blood cholesterol by 130 points.

    With this one data point in mind, I'm not so sure that dropping this warning is a good idea.

    --
    - Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
  43. What we do know... (Esselstyn, et al) by Holdstrong · · Score: 1

    Unfortunately for me, I come from a long line of people who like to drop dead from Cardiovascular Disease. So, I've taken a particular interest in the science behind prevention involving drugs, diet, and lifestyle.

    When it comes to diet, to the best of my knowledge, there are only two long term scientific studies that have shown that diet can slow and even halt the progress of CVD. Those are research studies by Dean Ornish and Caldwell Esselstyn. The study by the latter actually showed that you could not only halt the progress of cardiovascular disease but also reverse it! Those are pretty incredible findings, as that is something that was not thought possible before.

    Both of those studies involved strict plant based diets that avoid all animal proteins/fats and cholesterol. They also avoid a lot of other things, like sugars and refined carbs and processed foods, etc. So I suppose these incredible results could be from the omission of any of those things, or some combination of them, or all of them. But until they tease out of these studies exactly what was producing the results, in my opinion it is best to just follow them as is. Assuming, of course, you are worried about heart disease.

  44. Re:It was U.S. government supported FRAUD. by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

    I guess I'm way ahead of my time. For my whole life I've just taken a "eat whatever the fuck I want to" approach. Seems to be working out pretty well so far.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  45. There cannot possibly be only one right answer by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

    We have ice cream shops whose major marketing point is their choice of 31 flavors; we have an entire flavors & fragrances industry trying to make food taste as varied as possible. Humans don't all want the same flavor, because humans' chemistry isn't all the same. The simplest thing wrong with any single plan, be it the Food Pyramid or the Food Plate or any named diet, is that one single plan cannot possibly be right for everyone, all the time. Even the same individual's needs change depending on activity level and health and age and environment. One could define a best *process* for testing and analyzing what works best for each individual, but not a best diet.

    1. Re:There cannot possibly be only one right answer by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      For most of the development of humans, the diet has been pretty well fixed for most people by what was available. People who couldn't live well on what was readily available suffered badly.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    2. Re:There cannot possibly be only one right answer by DutchUncle · · Score: 1

      I agree. Maybe this is just part of the overall requirement to be able to live well in a given area, which is part of the drive to adapt humans to have differences in different areas. Some regional cultures live on milk and cheese, others use no dairy products and have a higher incidence of intolerance. In former times there were more typical regional appearances, beyond the obvious wide differences in color and build and facial structure, down to national "looks" (and in addition to local natural selection, there was less travel and thus less genetic mixing). If the local diet is oversupplied or deficient in some mineral or vitamin, then certain body types and chemistries will be more prevalent.

  46. Re:Finally the idiots stop believing sympathic mag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That consuming cholesterol actually causes an increase in someone's cholesterol level was never well founded.

    It has always fallen in the sympathetic category from any evidence I've ever seen. Tropical oils, which have no cholesterol seem to cause far more problems than butter and eggs.

    Vitamin D is produced in the body from the action of sunlight on cholesterol.

    I've often wondered if high cholesterol is a symptom of low vitamin D caused by lack of sunlight in our daily lives. High cholesterol could be the body's response to low vitamin D levels, its attempt to get more production from a low-sunlight environment.

    Any biochemists care to comment on this?

    Obviously anecdotal, but I have horrid Vitamin D levels. My first test after having not gone to a doctor in years, pegged it at 4. I've been taking supplements (up to 3000 iu a day now) and I still haven't quite got into normal levels yet. My LDL/HDL levels are excellent and always have been. Even on the newer tests that break those two categories out into four.

  47. this is a good time to recall by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that science is based on experiments, and it is awfully (awfully) hard to do experiments on people
    If we could breed brothers to sisters, to create genetically uniform people, and we had 10,000 of em, and we could put them on a controlled diet for their lives, we would get some answers...but in the real world, this sort of science is hard

    what we need, I think, is more of Framingham, and those studies take time, and LOTS of money (altough the US spends 55 billion on pets and about that, or a little less, on basic medical RnD, so our priorities are screwy..what can you expect from country where P Ryan or R Paul are taken seriously)

  48. Egg Council Creeps by CresCoJeff · · Score: 1
  49. Long ago: US gov protected against marketing FRAUD by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    "I would suggest that, once again, things mentioned as "government fraud" are actually that great free market taking advantage of a situation."

    Your idea is the dominant idea in the U.S. now, as Matt Taibbi covers in great detail in his book, The Divide.

    No one, NO ONE in the U.S. financial system went to prison for the extreme corruption that caused the crash of 2008.

    I can remember when the U.S. government protected its citizens against marketing fraud.

    The U.S. now has extremely expensive mass surveillance. Citizens pay, and no longer have privacy.

  50. Re:Finally the idiots stop believing sympathic mag by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've often wondered if high cholesterol is a symptom of low vitamin D caused by lack of sunlight in our daily lives. High cholesterol could be the body's response to low vitamin D levels, its attempt to get more production from a low-sunlight environment.

    Except "high cholesterol" doesn't mean you have high levels of cholesterol in your body. It's slang for high levels of lipid in your blood. Cholesterol is a critical component of cell membranes. "High cholesterol" doesn't even count anything about cell membranes.

  51. U.S. government now allows business FRAUD. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    "This is not fraud, it's marketing."

    Protecting citizens against public fraud is one of the major functions of a healthy government. As I said above, I can remember when the U.S. government protected its citizens against fraud.

    If rich people and corporations are allowed to be extraordinarily destructive to everyone in the world as a way of making money, then there is effectively a dictatorship and citizens are, effectively, slaves.

    Matt Taibbi gives a huge amount of detail about the collapse of U.S. society as we have known it: The Divide. Quoting from the Amazon web page: "New York Times bestseller -- Named one of the best books of the year by the Washington Post, NPR, and Kirkus Reviews".

    Read the book, House of Bush, House of Saud by Craig Unger. Bush and Cheney started a war so that they could make money. One of hundreds of books and articles: Cheney's Halliburton Made $39.5 Billion on Iraq War. Quoting:

    "Private or publicly listed firms received at least $138 billion of U.S. taxpayer money for government contracts for services that included providing private security, building infrastructure and feeding the troops."

  52. Re: food pyramid vs calories by Rich0 · · Score: 2

    I 100% agree in the law of conservation of mass/energy. If you feed somebody less, they'll lose weight at some point. That would work just fine if people were kept in cages like mice (individual cages, at that).

    The problem is that this neglects the whole behavior side of nutrition. If I put 5000kcal worth of bacon on a plate in front of you, and 5000kcal worth of chocolate chip cookies on a plate in front of you, and left you in the room with them all day long, I can practically guarantee that you'll end up eating more calories worth of cookies than bacon, even if on a per-mass basis the bacon is more calorie-dense (I'm actually not 100% sure on that though - cookies have plenty of fat).

    I've been eating low carb for the most part and I find that when all I have handy is meat/cheese/etc I really don't tend to snack much. I want to snack for sure, but I really don't care to cook up a pound of bacon and munch on it. However, when I used to bake cookies I could go through a can of them in a day. It isn't that I don't like bacon - I love it. You just don't get the same kinds of cravings and satisfaction physiologically when you eat it, and there is a lot of evidence that insulin/serotonin/etc fit into that.

  53. Re: food pyramid vs calories by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You've been sold a load of crap. BMI is an awful way to measure individual health in anyone except the sedentary - it's normally intended to be used to broadly generalize across large populations.

    Anecdotal case in point. I'm 6' tall, 215 pounds, 7% body fat. I run a sub six minute mile, have a 60 bpm resting heart rate, and generally enjoy doing "stuff". My weight to height also classifies me as 29+ BMI - borderline "obese".

    Go ahead and starve yourself down to a simple ratio without a care for how everything else is working. But please keep your misinformation to yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...

  54. Nutritionists? by MPBoulton · · Score: 1

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I nkw you don't need any qualifications to call yourself a "nutritionist", so why on earth would anyone beleice they know what they are talking about?

  55. Re: food pyramid vs calories by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 1

    There was a recent case of a normal weight woman getting a fecal transplant from an obese donor, and now this woman has become obese but not changed her diet and lifestyle.

    Yeah, I'd say a conclusion from this one case study is pretty darn premature. Here's the actual paper. Both the woman and her daughter (the donor) were borderline overweight (~BMI 26) before the transplant. Both the mother AND the daughter gained significant weight after the transplant (30-35 lbs. each).

    By your logic, we could also attribute the daughter's weight gain to the fact that she donated stool -- which wouldn't make any sense, but is also consistent with the data.

    I don't know where you get that she had "not changed her diet and lifestyle." That's not mentioned in the study. All it says is that the woman unintentionally gained a lot of weight (as did her daughter), and she apparently had tried to control it but was unsuccessful. Lots of people in their early 30s start to gain weight.

    Also, I should note that the condition she was treated for caused severe digestive discomfort. Many of those symptoms lessened after treatment. Could it have been that suddenly she started eating more because it no longer made her feel terrible?? (And it looks like her daughter joined her in the new binge, if her weight change shows anything....)

    Anyhow, I have no idea what this one case study shows. But (1) the woman was borderline overweight before the treatment, (2) both she and her daughter the donor experienced similar weight gain, which could point to a common shift in dietary eating habits in the household -- perhaps to foods that were more caloric but would previously have caused the mother digestive distress, and (3) she had a condition that would have made eating too much unenjoyable, but that disease was mostly cured.

    Suggestive? Perhaps. But I wouldn't conclude too much on the basis of this case study, unless there's information that's not in the official published account that could establish better causality.

  56. Abortionist attacking strawmen by mi · · Score: 1

    Case in point: the whole "Life Begins at Conception" issue is relatively recent.

    Weird. Chinese have always considered the time of conception (approximate) rather than the actual birthday as the start of one's age. And Mongolians have a similar practice, but only for females:

    In Eastern Outer Mongolia, age is traditionally determined based on the number of full moons since conception for girls, and the number of new moons since birth for boys.

    People didn't generally assume such a thing back when the mortality rate for infants and small children was so high that even naming them was considered a waste of time until they were old enough to be expected to need to be called by name.

    That a kid may die on his own, did not mean killing him (after birth) was not a murder — the two are completely orthogonal and irrelevant to each other.

    until they're over 2 years old. Which is long after those who wail about the slaughter of innocent "baby" fetuses have lost interest in how precious they are and at a point in time when many of them are complaining about what a bunch of parasites the little monsters are.

    Citation needed. Please, post links to the "wailers" calling 2 year-olds "little monsters".

    Stealing their hard-earned money for welfare programs.

    Yet another irrelevant item — one wonders, how do you manage to convince anybody of anything.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  57. Statins by NewYork · · Score: 1

    Statins and Aspirins are not Antibiotics;
    IMO, there is no harm in swallowing them once in a while;