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Japan Now Has More Car Charging Points Than Gas Stations

Posted by Soulskill on from the plugging-their-new-toy dept.

An anonymous reader writes: One of the biggest impediments to getting more electric cars on the road is the lack of charging infrastructure. When there's a gas station every other mile and you have to struggle to find a charging station, it's difficult to make a case for convenience and reliability. But this is changing, particularly in smaller, more technologically advanced countries like Japan. Nissan found that there are now about 40,000 charging points in Japan, compared to about 34,000 gas stations. Granted, not all of those charging spots are available to the public — some are in people's homes. But it shows the infrastructure is making real gains. Also, the article suggests an Airbnb-like system may crop up for people to utilize each other's charging stations. It adds, "As charging stations become more common, electric-car support services are also emerging. Open Charge Map, for example, operates an online listing of public charging points worldwide. A mobile app combines the data with GPS technology to guide drivers to the nearest site."

26 of 215 comments (clear)

  1. Not quite comparable by rossdee · · Score: 3, Insightful

    At a gas station it doesn't take you long to fill your tamk. Charging an electric vehicle takes a lot longer so theres less turnover.
    (Perhaps even all day, or at least all 8 hrs of a shift)

    1. Re:Not quite comparable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Also, wouldn't it be better to compare it to the total number of pumps?

    2. Re:Not quite comparable by Sangui5 · · Score: 2

      Not only that, but basically all gasoline cars have better range than the electric ones, which means a longer time between gas-tank fills vs charge-ups.

      So, each chargepoint needs to be used more often, and for far far longer. Calling it "not quite comparable" is quite the understatement.

    3. Re:Not quite comparable by runningduck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, however you very rarely need to go to a public charge station. Most charging is done at home while you sleep or for some people while they work. I understand that this is not practical for apartment dwellers, but keep in mind that any standard outlet can recharge the typical driving range over night; no charge station needed.

      A more important metric might be how many public charge stations are necessary compared to gas stations.

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      -rd
    4. Re:Not quite comparable by buchner.johannes · · Score: 4, Informative

      At a gas station it doesn't take you long to fill your tamk. Charging an electric vehicle takes a lot longer so theres less turnover.
      (Perhaps even all day, or at least all 8 hrs of a shift)

      It takes 1 minute, 30 seconds.
      A electric charging "gas station" could just replace the batteries in cars and charge its pool of batteries independent of the cars.

      --
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    5. Re:Not quite comparable by FatLittleMonkey · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Companies can also install them just by hiring an ordinary commercial electrician (or an industrial electrician for the fast-charge options). They don't need specific govt approval or licences, nor conduct EIS studies, nor do major construction. They can add points to light-poles in your open-air carpark, or run them along walls in a parking structure. Much less infrastructure than bowsers.

      You can install an outside (unmetered) 240VAC/20A power-point for maybe $50 parts plus labour. A standard three-phase (400V/30A) box w/- EFTPOS is about $600, plus labour. A DC 30m-fast-charge station w/- EFTPOS is about $3000, plus some back-end costs for the DC. The low cost means a company can add a row of free 240V charging points just for PR, even if they don't get used much; then ramp up to faster charging and paid charging (charged charging?) once they gauge demand or the number of BEVs increases.

      There's vastly less commitment required to get started. And the financial return-per-point can be vastly less for it to be worthwhile.

      --
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    6. Re:Not quite comparable by WindBourne · · Score: 4, Insightful

      and yet, the electric cars charge at nighttime at home, while the gas cars MUST go for fill-ups.

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    7. Re:Not quite comparable by jklovanc · · Score: 2

      Problems.
      1. Very few cars have swapable batteries because they are difficult to impiment.
      2. The card that do have swapable batteries are not standardized. Tesla
      3. It is more difficult to design a car with a swapable battery as the swapping mechanism is more complex and the battery can not be buried in the frame.
      4. That is not what the article is talking about.
      5. The only company that has tried to go public with this technology had gone bankrupt

    8. Re:Not quite comparable by eth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Actually if you're comparing it to public filling stations, number of cars filled per hour or per day would probably be a better comparison.

      A single gas pump can probably do about 12 cars per hour (5 minutes for the full transaction). If it takes 6 hours to charge a car, that single pump could fill as many cars as 72 charging stations. Or 7.2 or so 30-minute Supercharger stations (6 + 20%, since it doesn't fill to full, and you'd have to stop and tie up another charging station sooner).

    9. Re: Not quite comparable by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      First off, nobody uses suburbans for ag. productivity.
      And yes, the coming Model X can not only carry 5 adults humans, 2 mastiffs, and plenty of cargo, all while towing MORE than your suburban.

      However, it does not go 600 miles on a charge. That is true. However, you pay over 100 TODAY for that 600 miles, AND will pay over $200 for that, when gas prices return. OTOH, Tesla will be free to move around the nation.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    10. Re:Not quite comparable by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 3, Funny

      And electricity is free, which is why there is no need for an attendant? I think if I lived in Japan, I would buy an old jalopy car that run on gasoline, load it up with batteries to charge at the 'free' charging station and park the old jalopy next to my house. Free electricity for my house!

    11. Re:Not quite comparable by quantaman · · Score: 2

      The battery idea has some problems. Batteries are not interchangeable - age and quality matters. You might drive up to the station with a shiny new battery, get it replaced - and your new battery is two years old and only has half the effective capacity. Or worse, you might get given a battery which was previously damaged in an accident and is now prone to catch fire, or which a previous owner hacked to disable the under-voltage protection circuit and squeeze a bit more capacity from while ruining the cells, or which was manufactured by the cheapest factory in China with a counterfeir controller chip - all things that expose the station operator to liability. The only way it would work would be to inspect every battery as it came in and before sending it out again, which means every station needs a skilled attendant and frequently needs to buy new batteries. Expensive.

      You own the car but the auto-maker owns the battery and automatically replaces bad batteries free of charge.

      You go up to the charging station swap out the spent for the new, the spent goes to a charging station that runs a diagnostic during charging, if the battery fails the diagnostic the attendant sets it aside, then once a week they call the automaker who sends someone around to pick up the duds and drop off replacements.

      Since owners don't need to buy replacement batteries there's less of a market for counterfeits, and if you can make the verification works the only extra labour is the weekly exchange.

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  2. Sharing Economy? by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

    Hearing that many of these points are in homes makes me wonder if anyone is running a social media site/group just for people with EV chargers. You could make your charger open to people with chargers who would make them available to you... Presumably (heh heh) you could add something like this to your home for relatively little money by adding something that would provide an external charging lead with a keypad or iButton contact or NFC or whatever, with a socket inside into which you plugged your charging connector when you wanted to make it available. Plugging into the back of the unit would power it up, at which point it would connect to the network and announce availability. It would require relatively little penetration of an external wall, or routing through conduits to an appropriate mounting location.

    --
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    1. Re:Sharing Economy? by Smidge204 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, the difference is that the cost-per mile electric driving is a fraction of the cost of gasoline.

      A gallon of gasoline will get you ~40 miles in a good car. A gallon of gasoline is also ~36KWHr of energy. 36 KWHr of electric charge will get you over 108 miles in a mediocre electric vehicle.

      A gallon of gasoline right now, in my area, is roughly $2.40. A kilowatt-hour of electricity, including all taxes and surcharges, is roughly $0.20. So fully charging an electric car will cost about $5 while fully refueling a normal car will cost about $25.

      And as others pointed out; it needn't be for free. But at a maximum of $5 per visitor it needn't be cash either. Hell, bring a box of good cookies and I'll let you charge at my place for a few hours...

      And if it's an emergency type situation, maybe a couple bucks to help someone get home isn't that bad a gesture in and of itself.
      =Smidge=

    2. Re:Sharing Economy? by tsqr · · Score: 2

      Greece is going to try to give away electricity for free to extremely poor people. People who aren't extremely poor will get to pay for it.

  3. Really? by DeathSquid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    And yet I live in Tokyo and I have never seen a charging point there. Can anyone tell me where there is a public point?

    1. Re:Really? by DeathSquid · · Score: 2

      Exactly one charging point in Shinjuku, my city. The most populated city in Japan. You must be joking. Where did you get the number 453 from? What a waste of time.

  4. Norway by rarruda · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Norway has 1602 gas stations ( http://www.np.no/om_bensinstas... ) and 1617 charging stations with 6221 charting points ( http://www.ladestasjoner.no/ ) of which 5384 charting points are public and most are free as in beer.

    While driving to most places in the country is possible with a Tesla due to its large battery pack, with most other electric cars it would still be a significant hassle to drive significant distances (over 3 hours non-stop drive) due to their limited range/battery packs.

    So I guess the question even with infrastructure in place, and with enough incentives in place, is when will most manufacturers realize that range is critical into turning electric cars from a commuters vehicle into a family, general, all purpose car? (Other then Tesla, I don't really see other manufacturers really "getting it").

    1. Re:Norway by Duhfus · · Score: 2

      > Other then Tesla, I don't really see other manufacturers really "getting it" I might be wrong, but I don't think it is the manufacturers' not "getting it", but that the cost to bring a longer range vehicle makes such a vehicle much less desirable currently. Having said that I hope the cost comes down soon enough that guys like me can actually afford a car like Tesla S.

    2. Re:Norway by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      Nissan are releasing a 250 mile range Leaf late next year. I'll probably be one of the first customers as my finance on my current Leaf comes to an end then.

      --
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  5. Re:What's the real public number? by sribe · · Score: 2

    I mean, who else can use a station built into a private garage?

    Yeah, but who can re-fill their gas tank in their garage at night without going out?

    So the comparison is tricky...

  6. Points vs. stations by fridaynightsmoke · · Score: 2

    I'm assuming a 'charging point' charges one car. A gas station has between 4 and 20 pumps. If it takes 3 minutes to fill a car's tank, that means a gas station can serve between 80 and 400 cars per hour. A charging point can serve between 0.1 and 2 (for a Tesla Supercharger) cars per hour.

    Apples and oranges.

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    1. Re:Points vs. stations by Chas · · Score: 2

      Also, Japan is roughly the size of Montana. And fairly densely populated. Are 70-80 mile commutes to work really that common?

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    2. Re:Points vs. stations by OldSport · · Score: 4, Informative

      *Very* few people commute on the shinkansen in Japan, and the distances you're talking about would run around $200 USD per day. I can't think of a single person I knew during my 10 years living in the country who commuted on the shinkansen. If such a commute became necessary a company would just foot the bill for a small apartment and relocate the employee.

      Commuting by car is what is actually rare in Japan. In such an urbanized country, with such a robust public transport system, nearly everyone takes the train, or the subway, or the bus. Only in the boondocks do you find the majority of people commuting by car.

      Two hour commutes on NORMAL trains, however, are not rare.

  7. In the old days ... by jamesl · · Score: 2

    Open Charge Map, for example, operates an online listing of public charging points worldwide. A mobile app combines the data with GPS technology to guide drivers to the nearest site.

    Decades ago, Mercedes included with every diesel powered car a book that listed every diesel fuel station in the US.

  8. It's not just the "technologically advanced" bit by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 2

    When there's a gas station every other mile and you have to struggle to find a charging station, it's difficult to make a case for convenience and reliability. But this is changing, particularly in smaller, more technologically advanced countries like Japan.

    Japan doesn't have significant oil reserves from which it can produce its own gasoline. Whether it learned that lesson from World War II, or whether it sees the continuing political instability in the Middle East as a motivator - Japan is probably doing this because it's politically expedient rather than because it's cool tech.

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