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Resistant Bacterial Infection Outbreak At California Hospital

puddingebola writes From the article: "A potentially deadly "superbug" resistant to antibiotics has infected seven patients, including two who died, and more than 160 others were exposed at Ronald Reagan UCLA Medical Center through contaminated medical instruments, the hospital revealed. The drug-resistant superbug known as CRE was likely transmitted to the Los Angeles patients by contaminated medical scopes during endoscopic procedures that took place between October 2014 and January 2015, a university statement said. " UCLA says the infections occurred via contaminated endoscopes that were sterilized according to the manufacturer's specifications. (Note: beware autoplaying video ad; adjust your volume accordingly.)

132 comments

  1. From the grave... by Nutria · · Score: 3, Funny

    Ronald Reagan's cold dead hand stretches forth again to wreak havoc across the land!

    --
    "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    1. Re:From the grave... by damn_registrars · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Previous comment makes sense because the hospital was named for Reagan. Your comment is just dumb and off-topic.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    2. Re:From the grave... by ColdWetDog · · Score: 4, Insightful

      But, in fact, the system works. Nothing is going to be foolproof or fail safe. There will always be screw ups or just procedures that don't fix everything. However, it is telling that the hospital's surveillance systems figured out what the problem was, identified the patients at risk and presumably stopped the 'outbreak'. 32 patients, although it sounds like a lot, is probably just a couple of days worth of scopes at a big institution.

      Although not clearly delineated in TFA, it appears that the problematic instruments were endoscopes used in ERCP procedures. These particular devices are at high risk of contamination due to their complex design.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    3. Re:From the grave... by Nutria · · Score: 0

      You're just too young to remember how Eeeeeeeeeevvvvvvviiiiiiillllll that RR was.

      And have no sense of humor, either.

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    4. Re:From the grave... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Deuteronomy 22 28-29, hebrew.

    5. Re:From the grave... by Khyber · · Score: 2

      Contamination isn't shit. If these idiots would learn how to Tyndallize their equipment instead of relying upon shit autoclaves, this wouldn't even be an issue.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    6. Re:From the grave... by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Funny

      As if I didn't already have enough reasons to *NOT* have something stuck up my ass!!

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    7. Re:From the grave... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's Bush's fault.

    8. Re:From the grave... by Bengie · · Score: 2

      Tyndallize requires a device to be pressure cooked at 115c for 15 minute sessions, 3 days in a row. Making devices withstand pressure and heat would increase costs quite a bit, plus the cost of having each device out of service for 3 days between uses. Sounds decent enough for simple tools that are mostly metal, but more complex devices, like endoscopes may have issues.

    9. Re:From the grave... by fsagx · · Score: 5, Informative

      A flexible endoscope is cleaned in a machine more like a kitchen dishwasher than an autoclave. The scope has internal channels for shooting air and water out of a nozzle on the tip. It has a large channel to pass instruments into the patient (biopsy forceps, cauterizers, even other more narrow endoscopes). An ERCP scope has an additional channel that carries a stiff wire that is used to deflect instruments coming out the end. This channel and wire is a very tight fit, so it is more difficult to clean.

      Attachments to the channel ports should circulate the sterilizing fluids through all the channels. It's not difficult to imagine a clog preventing the fluid from circulating. Testing for leaks and clogs is part of the cleaning procedure, but in practice, of course, errors happen often:

      Similar story from just last month:
      http://www.modernhealthcare.co...

      A biggy at the VA a few years ago:
      http://health.usnews.com/healt...

    10. Re:From the grave... by damn_registrars · · Score: 0

      I was responding to the AC, who followed up your jab at Reagan with a jab at Clinton. I remember Reagan far more than I would like to.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    11. Re:From the grave... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      instead of relying upon shit autoclaves, this wouldn't even be an issue.

      I doubt if the problem was the autoclave. It is more likely caused by sloppy procedures by a lazy operator, who didn't cook them long enough, didn't swap gloves between putting stuff in and taking stuff out, or some other dumb shortcut.

    12. Re:From the grave... by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      "if discovered"

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    13. Re:From the grave... by Khyber · · Score: 1

      115C? Wrong. 121C, and you only need two atmos of pressure, and it's only a single 15 minute session. Where are you getting this days in a row nonsense?

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    14. Re:From the grave... by damn_registrars · · Score: 0

      Not on this site, it isn't. Here on slashdot it's all Obama's fault.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    15. Re:From the grave... by Tiger4 · · Score: 1

      UCLA claims they were doing de-con per the manufacturer's recommendations. They've changed it now, which is encouraging. But had they gone off book from the start, they'd be just as liable to infect people for NOT following instructions.

      --
      Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
    16. Re:From the grave... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      This entire thread is wrong from the very beginning, actual Tyndallization is for things that can't be boiled. You heat it to just below 100C for 15 minutes to kill active bacteria, then you store it in a damp environment for a day to encourage the spores that don't die to germinate into active bacteria and start growing again over the next 24 hours. Then you heat it again. You repeat this every day until you feel you have it clean enough. Any spores that didn't de-cloak will still be there and will become active when the environment allows it.

      It's not used anymore because it takes days and can't kill spores.

    17. Re:From the grave... by theArtificial · · Score: 1

      Making devices withstand pressure and heat would increase costs quite a bit.

      US Healthcare costs are already grossly inflated and the companies charge what they charge because they can get it, not because it's based in reality. I'm trying to find where I read about a medical tool that failed to market because it was priced too cheaply, and was successfully marketed and reintroduced at a higher price point. 2010 cost breakdown structures and equipment is a fraction of the total expenditure. This is like the drought in California asking residents who use up 14% of the water to conserve by 20% (I understand everyone needs to do their part). There is so much waste in medical, for example, you take a tablet out of the container and the patient refuses to take it, pitch it.

      I'm involved with software related to caregivers, the regulations are stunning.

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    18. Re:From the grave... by umghhh · · Score: 1

      I think you did not read last memo - it is all Putin's.
      But it us OK because his empire although very evil is just crumbling and unimportant.

    19. Re:From the grave... by theArtificial · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the informative links.

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    20. Re:From the grave... by damn_registrars · · Score: 0

      I think you did not read last memo - it is all Putin's.

      You're joking, right? Many of the slashdotters who dedicate themselves to blaming everything wrong in the world on Obama barely even know who Putin is. The likelihood that they would blame anything on him is quite nearly zero, especially as the official slashdot narrative remains that Obama is a closet communist/fascist/Islamist/anarchist/socialist/martian/illuminati who is femtoseconds from launching a new plan for world domination.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    21. Re:From the grave... by nobuddy · · Score: 1

      Fox does not talk about Putin, so they don't know who he is.

    22. Re:From the grave... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I thought the main misfortune of Obama is that he was born in Liberia, or was it Haiti?
      Or is it simoly that he is black, but not black enough?

      Anyway, good that you confirmed he is a martian islamist, he always looked suspicious to me!

      Regsrding Putin, that is a russian guy famous for his wrestling with bears! I believe they even have a vodca named after him!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    23. Re:From the grave... by damn_registrars · · Score: 2

      I thought the main misfortune of Obama is that he was born in Liberia, or was it Haiti?

      There is no shortage of birthers out there who are still dedicated to "answering" that question.

      However, based on what many slashdot conservatives write, it appears that Obama's biggest failure is in the fact that he has the wrong consonant after his last name. His actual decisions and policies are demonstrably more conservative than their hero Reagan but he happens to be a democrat so he is automatically the antichrist.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    24. Re:From the grave... by nobuddy · · Score: 1

      Its not the regulations killing materials costs. Pharmacy costs are pretty obviously the pharmaceutical companies.
      Materials is a self inflicted wound. multiple hospitals tried to get better pricing by forming GPO companies. A good idea, but somewhere down the line the majority of them wound up in just a few dozen GPOs. Many of those merged and talked them in to long term contracts. Like 99 year contracts. In short order, everyone had to buy through a very small number of middlemen because they can control supply (Sell to anyone independent and we stop buying from you. Capiche?). And those middle men drove up the costs to incredible levels. Buy a syringe for 3 cents, sell it to the hospital for $56.35.

    25. Re:From the grave... by theArtificial · · Score: 1

      Its not the regulations killing materials costs.

      I didn't claim that, my comment about regulations was specific to software. My argument was they charge the prices they do because they can. Costs are passed on. Look at how much insurance charges.

      Materials is a self inflicted wound. multiple hospitals tried to get better pricing by forming GPO companies. A good idea, but somewhere down the line the majority of them wound up in just a few dozen GPOs. Many of those merged and talked them in to long term contracts. Like 99 year contracts.

      Interesting. Since I'm a cowboy today, why can't these organizations reorg and shirk their contracts? Probably not worth it because the vast majority of overhead typically incurred by an organization is the personnel.

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    26. Re:From the grave... by cyberchondriac · · Score: 2

      Obviously you never even actually watched Fox (which really had nothing to do with this conversation) because they've talked about Putin and the Ukraine situation quite a bit, actually. 10 years ago, everything was Bush's fault, now it's Obama's fault. Seems fair.

      --

      Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    27. Re:From the grave... by tsotha · · Score: 1

      I'm amazed at the number of people who feel qualified to comment on a network they've never watched and know nothing about.

    28. Re:From the grave... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the cost in finances is worth more than the cost of lives to you, and because of that you would damn the lives to save the finances?

      You are a horrible person.

    29. Re:From the grave... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not autoclave the device, as dentists do with their instruments and handpieces?

    30. Re:From the grave... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since I'm a cowboy today, why can't these organizations reorg and shirk their contracts?

      Because as you said they've been able to pass along the costs to others.

      And adding a 30% margin on top of a $56.35 syringe goes a bit further into buying a new yacht than 30% on top of a 3 cent syringe.

      If they're asked why is it so expensive - they can point fingers at other people and say they're not the ones buying it at 3 cents.

    31. Re:From the grave... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Had they gone off-book from the start, they might have been liable for problems. Since they can demonstrate problems from going according to the book, they're a lot safer legally in coming up with a new procedure.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. Thanks freetards by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    Another fail for Linux and open sores.

  3. that's not good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    1. (Note: beware autoplaying video ad; adjust your volume accordingly.)
    NOTE to submitter : maybe spend half a minute to find a site carrying the story that isn't hostile to sentient life.

    2. Make sure any equipment used on you has been properly run through the autoclave.

    1. Re:that's not good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      flexible endoscopes have been around since the 1960's, and they cannot go through an autoclave. Rigid endoscopes can go through an autoclave, but they are more limited in application.

      Maybe a camera endoscope could be designed to last in an autoclave, if you can make one you should patent it and demands the FDA no longer approve older designs as they are difficult to sterilized and have literally killed people already.

    2. Re:that's not good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rigid endoscopes can go through an autoclave, but they are more limited in application.

      Just push harder.

    3. Re:that's not good by NatasRevol · · Score: 1

      Or get less bent.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  4. Hospitals are for trauma injuries. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last time I went to the hospital to get a physical I picked up the flu and was sick for weeks. I avoid those places as much as I can.

  5. Resistance is futile! by penguinoid · · Score: 1

    Well, actually resistance is surprisingly effective.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    1. Re:Resistance is futile! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 1

      As always, it depends on your point of view. Are you a freedom fighter or a terrorist? A bacterium or some undeveloped, unevolved, barely conscious pond scum that is destroying the planet?

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:Resistance is futile! by penandpaper · · Score: 1

      Destroying the planet by poisoning the atmosphere with oxygen? :)

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxygenation_Event

  6. Unpatched bug by jamesl · · Score: 2

    From January 9, 2014 ...
    This investigation highlights the potential for CRE transmission following ERCP. Health-care facilities with CRE outbreaks should consider the possibility of ERCP-related transmission. If ERCP-related transmission of CRE is suspected, reprocessing and preventative maintenance procedures for ERCP endoscopes should be evaluated in consultation with the manufacturer of the endoscope and automated endoscope reprocessor, if used. In addition, expertise in the evaluation and prevention of CRE transmission are available at CDC and can be accessed via state and local health departments.
    http://www.infectioncontroltod...

    So this "bug" went unpatched for at least a year.

  7. Not all that new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    These kinds of outbreaks crop up from time to time. Dealing with them is like dealing with ebola. Isolate patients and treat them and hope they get better. Otherwise the disease will burn itself out.

    1. Re:Not all that new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Patients can't really transmit to each other in this case, unless you are using an dirty endoscope.

      Next time your kid swallows marbles you now have one more thing to worry about.

    2. Re:Not all that new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's an awfully big marble to be swallowing, if it's not coming out the other end and requires and endoscope to fish around for.

      Either that or your kid has a microscopically tiny... well, you know...

    3. Re: Not all that new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why yes, marbles do come in a variety of sizes. There is also the size of the child to consider.
      So... WTF are you going on about?

  8. To quote Sheldon Cooper. . . by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Funny

    Sheldon Cooper: To a hospital? Full of sick people? Oh, I don't think so.

    Penny: Okay, well, your friend and his mother are there. We're going!

    Sheldon Cooper: I can't.

    Penny: Oh, don't tell me you're afraid of germs.

    Sheldon Cooper: Not all germs. Just the ones that will kill me. The same way I'm not afraid of all steak knives; just the ones that might be plunged in my thorax.

    Leonard Hofstadter: Ah-uh, fine, I'll tell Howard you didn't come because you're more concerned about your own well-being than his.

    Sheldon Cooper: I would think he would know that.

    Penny: Okay, you know what? You are unbelievable. You buy all these superhero T-shirts but when it's time for you to step up and do the right thing, you just hide in the laundry room.

    Sheldon Cooper: Fine, I'll go. Just for the record, my Aunt Ruth died in a hospital. She went in to visit my Uncle Roger, caught something, and bit the dust a week later. The two of them now share a coffee can on my mother's mantel.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
    1. Re:To quote Sheldon Cooper. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So superhero T-shirts turned out to be Sheldons Kryptonite? Who'd have thought?

    2. Re:To quote Sheldon Cooper. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is a bad thing I'm hearing a laugh track in my head when reading this?

    3. Re:To quote Sheldon Cooper. . . by lexman098 · · Score: 1

      Why do people think this show is funny?

    4. Re:To quote Sheldon Cooper. . . by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      It is in large part because the actors add a lot more to the performance than just the recitation of lines. That aside if you can't see the humor in a holier than though know it all being called out on his own personal cowardice then it might follow that you are possesed of the same flaws as Sheldon's character.

    5. Re:To quote Sheldon Cooper. . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because most geeks and nerds can either identify directly with one of the characters, or can identify traits from the characters in their own circle of friends.

      Many geeks tend to get bent out of shape over the character of Sheldon, claiming that nobody in their circle of friends acts that way, but here's a hint: Every group of geek friends has a Sheldon. If you think your group doesn't, then I have news for you - you're the Sheldon.

    6. Re:To quote Sheldon Cooper. . . by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Is it personal cowardice, or pattern recognition?

      I've always thought doctor's office waiting rooms were a great way to ensure repeat business.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
    7. Re:To quote Sheldon Cooper. . . by Whorhay · · Score: 1

      Visiting a friend in a hospital though is not like sitting around in a doctor's waiting room. Most of a modern hospital's patients aren't infected with some infectious disease. Patients are typically kept in rooms by themselves or with one other patient. There is also a lot of effort that goes into trying to keep it a relatively sterile environment. The only area of a hospital that you could accurately equate to a waiting room in a doctors office would be the emergency room, which if you are going there to see someone who is already admitted, you won't usually even enter.

  9. Oops by Tyler+Durden · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm seriously regretting any anti-bacterial soap I've used over the years right about now.

    --
    Happy people make bad consumers.
    1. Re:Oops by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

      It's not normal use that's the issue, it's overuse.

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
    2. Re:Oops by pnutjam · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yeah, overuse like putting it in every day hand soap.

    3. Re:Oops by xanthines-R-yummy · · Score: 1

      More like misuse.

    4. Re:Oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why would you do that, in the movie your fight club made its own soap.

    5. Re:Oops by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      I'm seriously regretting any anti-bacterial soap I've used over the years right about now.

      I'm regretting the anti-bacterial soap that every moron is using, the evil marketers that tout it as a feature, and the greedy companies that capitalize on people's fear of mostly harmless bacteria.

      In case anyone is wondering, one of the best antibacterials is other bacteria, but on the other hand, there are bacteria specialized in surviving in hospital environments including both antibiotics and chemical cleaners. So not only do these soaps train antibiotic resistance in bacteria, but they also clear the way for some already resistant bacteria.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    6. Re:Oops by smellsofbikes · · Score: 3, Informative

      I'm seriously regretting any anti-bacterial soap I've used over the years right about now.

      Don't be. We may breed triclosan-resistant bacteria by using antibacterial soap, but that doesn't mean we're breeding carbapenem-resistant bacteria -- the C in CRE -- by using triclosan. There is very little evidence that developed resistance to one type of antibiotic increases resistance to another completely unrelated antibiotic. Triclosan inhibits fatty acid synthesis, carbapenem inhibits synthesis of the peptidoglycans used in bacterial cell walls.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    7. Re:Oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yea, misuse like using it as directed by doctors until very recently and as still advertised by every major corporation in the handsoap industry...

    8. Re:Oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wrong. Clearly this isn't your field, so generally speaking, please stop commenting with an authoritative tone on things where you do not have the expertise or the will/ability to think through it.

      Increased mutation rates and adaptability of bacteria appear to be significant factors for development of antibiotic resistance and are selected for passage to the next generation through natural selection.

      http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2958.2006.05150.x/pdf

    9. Re: Oops by Traxton · · Score: 1

      It has always baffled me that Americans use anti-bacterial soap. I have never even heard of it being used here in Sweden. At hospitals and other sensitive areas we use regular soap plus rubbing alcohol.

    10. Re: Oops by umghhh · · Score: 1

      actually only napalm helps. Added bonus - after 12h constant application it smells like victory.

    11. Re:Oops by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Soap should not be an issue, unless it contains antibiotics, which is hart to believe.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    12. Re: Oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They're washing us with people!

    13. Re:Oops by iONiUM · · Score: 1

      Not triclosan. You shouldn't buy anti-bacterial soap with triclosan to begin with, it does nothing (probably).

      Directly from the Wikipedia page: "Triclosan safety is under review by the FDA[15] and Health Canada.[17]" You can read the page to find out why if you're interested.

    14. Re: Oops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many Americans will not buy soap that is not marketed as "anti-bacterial" and the rest mostly don't care. It's true that antibacterial soap is almost completely useless. You would have to lather up your hands in the soap and let them sit for 10-15 minutes to really get any more meaningful effect than soap alone, which of course nobody does. It's just marketers preying upon the ignorance of the average American.

  10. Typical DC Comics by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

    Always doing some new Superman spinoff.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  11. Re:He Was The Disease by Jason+Levine · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And the final irony? If Ronald Reagan ran for President today, he would be kicked out of the GOP today for being too liberal.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  12. Precisely 35 days ago I read in L.A. Times by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Precisely 35 days ago I read in L.A. Times an article about L.A. metro hospitals quality. This one came out in in bottom half.

  13. get the lawyers ready by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    "through contaminated medical instruments, the hospital revealed"
    You just said the magic words that summons their lawyers. Law suit time!

    1. Re:get the lawyers ready by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Someone should be answering to a judge over this.

      If the DA won't do it then it's up to those "sleazy ambulance chasers".

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:get the lawyers ready by sjames · · Score: 1

      On the other side, I'll bet the hospital expects the patients to pay the full bill, including the bill for treatment (successful or not) for the disease the hospital gave them. It's no wonder people are so quick to sue.

    3. Re:get the lawyers ready by slashmydots · · Score: 1

      I hope there's no patent on the bacteria or they'll be paying licensing fees until they're better.

  14. To the tune of "Indo smoke" by CODiNE · · Score: 1

    Ahh, Endoscope
    Pass me the tube so I can take a poke
    1 push, 2 push, 3 push, 4 push, 5 I'm feelin deep inside
    Leaning to the side in my Ophthalmic ride
    With the KY gangsta glide
    Woo!, hey now ya know
    Inhale, exhale with my flow
    Breakaway, come again like this
    Hey G promise me use two hands don't miss
    Cuz if you do, it break you get broke
    Me and Mista G and the endoscope

    --
    Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
  15. Shifting the blame. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They said they sterilized the instruments as per manufacturer orders.
    However, that leaves a very scary hole in the security of removing bacteria from equipment.

    Policy needs to be modified to have the instruments sterilized properly, regardless of manufacturer orders.
    If the instrument fails due to the sterilization, then at least you won't be passing on some nasty shit.

    But this is only common sense.

    1. Re:Shifting the blame. by queazocotal · · Score: 1

      Violating the manufacturers instructions runs the risk of damaging equipment - and - for example - having sharp bits of the broken equipment stab the patient.

  16. anti-bacterial (soap) != antibiotics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Acid, chlorine, etc. all kill bacteria in ways that are unlikely to result in resistant strains.
    The compounds in anti-bacterial soap (triclosan for example) are not used to treat internal
    infections. Antibiotics are more specalized compounds which target bacteria and are (relatively) harmless to humans.
    The problem (if there is one) with anti-bacterial soap seems to be that a certain amount of exposure to
    bacteria is apparently good for the human immune system and widespread use of anti-bacterial compounds
    works against this. It is the widespread addition of antibiotics to the feed for livestock which is of
    most concern. Thie same compounds are feed to livestock as are used to treat human infections and
    the animals become breeding ground for antibiotics resistant bacteria.

    1. Re:anti-bacterial (soap) != antibiotics by umghhh · · Score: 1

      This and the antibiotics cooks in 3rd world do not have sewage processing plants for fluid waste from their production facilities. I mean the costs savings have to come from somewhere...

  17. I'm here all day... by borknado · · Score: 2

    Clearly the reason these patients died is because the "Ronald Reagen" medical center used too "conservative" an approach to their treatment.

  18. Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Karmashock · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    California is opening its doors to pretty much anyone from central America at this point... and they tend to be very poor people with no vaccinations, often they've been traveling for awhile under rough conditions, according to the people at the detainee centers these people are riddled with parasites/diseases/wriggling lice just falling out of their hair... etc.

    So... whatever you might think about the issue... maybe you're one of those "there's no such thing as an illegal person" people... but this is not safe. California specifically is going through serial outbreaks because this crap is just flowing across the border. At the very least, establish an Ellis Island type quarantine facility so that they can get hosed off and deloused.

    And I'll note for fun that if Americans decided to just show up in Mexico expecting to be housed, fed, treated for medical conditions without payment, etc the Mexicans would at best put those americans on a bus, dump them at the border, and then send the US government a bill for the service. Suggesting that this is not okay is not racism etc... no country in its right mind would put up with this crap.

    Literally the only reason we are doing this is because the democrats are running out of US citizens that actually want to vote for them. So they're importing voters and pretty much breaking every rule on the books to do it. I'm not saying that if you're a democrat that you're a scummy person. You're probably my neighbor and I'm not mad at you. But the people pushing this at a high level are scummy people. They're used to buying elections and since that isn't working as well as it used to they're importing voters. Its pretty disgraceful.

    And also a health concern apparently.

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    1. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your triad is devoid of facts and sounds like a screed from fox news. I don't even like liberals, but lying about things only harms the cause.

    2. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by riverat1 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      Literally the only reason we are doing this is because the democrats are running out of US citizens that actually want to vote for them. So they're importing voters and pretty much breaking every rule on the books to do it. I'm not saying that if you're a democrat that you're a scummy person. You're probably my neighbor and I'm not mad at you. But the people pushing this at a high level are scummy people. They're used to buying elections and since that isn't working as well as it used to they're importing voters. Its pretty disgraceful.

      [facepalm]Oh good God! [/facepalm] If non-citizens are voting in any significant numbers how hard can that be to prove? The Bush II administration made it a point of emphasis with the US Attorneys and they didn't find much. Instead we have Republicans pushing voter ID laws that fall most heavily on low income citizens (legal voters) who otherwise have no need for that kind of ID. They're desperate because they know the demographics are turning against them.

    3. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 0

      Voter ID laws are about much more than illegals. In the last presidential contest, Romney get not one vote from 59 voting divisions in Philadelphia. Not one single vote. 19,605 to zero. Same with 9 precincts in Cleveland. Many of these voters are not even literate. This is a statistical impossibility. St. Lucie County in FLA had 141% voter turnout. Without fraud like that, the election might have had a different outcome.

    4. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      What facts would you like, mr Anonymous Coward?

      And as to facts... what did I lie about? To say I didn't offer supporting evidence is one thing. To charge me with lying is another.

      The first does not put any burden on you to provide evidence. The second requires YOU to back up the charge that I lied.

      What did I lie about, mr AC? And while you're at it... sign in so I can note the fake name of my accuser. :-)

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    5. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by topology · · Score: 1

      Voter ID laws are about much more than illegals. In the last presidential contest, Romney get not one vote from 59 voting divisions in Philadelphia. Not one single vote. 19,605 to zero. Same with 9 precincts in Cleveland. Many of these voters are not even literate. This is a statistical impossibility. St. Lucie County in FLA had 141% voter turnout. Without fraud like that, the election might have had a different outcome.

      It would help to actually do some research as to how it was probable that Romney would get 0 votes in these 59 districts.

      This page: http://hatthief.blogspot.com/2012/11/other-precincts-where-romney-got-0-votes.html

      Has the best explanation.

      I will summarize:

      1. -The precincts were primarily black, and we had our first black president running
      2. -The precincts were centered in democratic territory.
      3. -The precincts had small numbers of voter turn out.
        (Obama 4, Romney 0 is hardly statistically significant for proving fraud.)

      I know its fun to take information and use it to support the worst possible interpretation, but you should probable check the contexts to make sure you have the right expectations set. I would expect tight, mono-culture communities to have uniform political views and voting behavior.

    6. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 0

      No, it was fraud. Even if you told every single voter to go in and vote for candidate A, and they had every intention of doing so, a non-zero percentage would get it wrong out of over 19,000.

    7. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      A quick check with Snopes puts the lie to your claims.

      Snopes on 2012 voter fraud.

    8. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      First, who said they won't be citizens? If you make anyone that crosses the border a citizen then they can vote.

      What evidence do you have that is happening? It takes far more than crossing the border to become a citizen of the US (unless you are born here of course).

      If the democrats really didn't want illegals to vote then they'd allow for some investigation of the voter roles.

      The voter registration lists are a matter of public record. It's not that hard to get them. Don't you think that by now if illegals were being allowed to vote someone would have got a list and audited it and blown the lid off that scam?

      I think it is you are fooling yourself on this subject.

    9. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      As to evidence... I am apparently talking to someone that doesn't read the news.

      Type "Obama Amnesty Judge" into your search engine of choice. You'll get a whole page of links referring to Obama's bs being so completely out of control that the US Judiciary is putting the brakes on it. Which is f'ing impressive because they rarely involve themselves in such matters unless the government goes WAY beyond its authority.

      As to auditing voter registration lists, they are audited but not by the government. They're audited by private citizens and they do find fun names on their like "Mickey Mouse" or dead people that have been voting some how for years.

      Surely you must have heard some of the old unions brag about how they would "find" the votes they needed every year. Helps when the Union hall is a polling station. In more then a few cases we've had more votes then are registered in a given county turn up.

      You act as if the system is pristine and free from fault... your position baffles me given that even a basic look at the history would show you a litany of fraud going back generations.

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    10. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Snopes actually confirms the first thing he says. They just handwave it as "So a republican didn't win an urban city? Who cares!?!"

      It is true that 59 voting divisions in Philadelphia recorded no votes for Mitt Romney, but given the voter composition of the Philadelphia area (and some Philadelphia wards in particular) and the number of voters in each division, that outcome was hardly a "mathematical and statistical impossibility."

    11. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Well, yes but it wasn't some sort of voter fraud conspiracy, it's just what happened given the demographics of the precincts.

    12. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      As to evidence... I am apparently talking to someone that doesn't read the news.

      Type "Obama Amnesty Judge" into your search engine of choice. You'll get a whole page of links referring to Obama's bs being so completely out of control that the US Judiciary is putting the brakes on it. Which is f'ing impressive because they rarely involve themselves in such matters unless the government goes WAY beyond its authority.

      Where in all of that do you get that anyone is granting citizenship to any of them? Amnesty from deportation is not tantamount to granting citizenship. In a situation where resources are limited the President has discretion to direct the funds to where he thinks they'll do the most good. Did you know that Obama has deported more people than Bush did before him?

      As to auditing voter registration lists, they are audited but not by the government. They're audited by private citizens and they do find fun names on their like "Mickey Mouse" or dead people that have been voting some how for years.

      Evidence? Without that you're just making unsubstantiated accusations. I agree that there are dead people on the voter rolls that should be purged and occasionally a spouse has been caught trying to vote for their recently deceased spouse but it doesn't happen often enough to be much of a problem.

      The system is not pristine but it's not currently overrun by fraud as you seem to think either. If you want to convince me otherwise you'll have to give me specific evidence backed up by data that can be verified. Good luck.

    13. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      First, they were talking about granting citizenship to people in mass. Numbers ranged from 200,000 to 5,000,000. That is why the courts put the stop to it. From the perspective of the courts, Obama has the right to not enforce the law which just shows you how flexible the courts are on the matter. However, he was going beyond that to grant citizenship to people in contradiction of the law. Which is why the courts shut it down.

      Second, even in the event that citizenship would not be issued, he was talking about giving them paperwork that is only given to citizens without technically making them citizens. I assume you know something about computers? And thus perhaps something about systems? What happens when credentials that are only given to a specific security group are given to someone outside of that security group? Would you be surprised to realize there were "unintended consequences"? Like perhaps someone with those credentials getting access to things that should only be granted to people within the security group? Well that is exactly what was going to happen.

      The IRS said that such people were going to be able to get tax credits despite not paying taxes amongst other fun stuff. And yeah... register to vote. Because they check that with your social and the socials they were being issued weren't special. They weren't marked or ear marked or tagged. They were just socials. Which meant you could use them to register to vote.

      As to the system being just fine so no one needs to reform the system... that is precisely what someone would say if they were thriving on the fraud.

      Tell you what ... why don't we compromise and you allow the system to be reformed? I mean, if it doesn't need to be reformed then you're just letting your neighbor do something for the sake of argument and the end result will be just what we have now. Why stop reform... unless... you need the corruption?

      The democrats have been obstructing reform in this portion of our civic system for over a generation. And it has not gone unnoticed.

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    14. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 0

      Which is statistically impossible without fraud.

    15. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Which Snopes.com disagrees with. I'm going with Snopes.com.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    16. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      At least around here, we keep public records of who showed up and voted. Somebody could check out anybody thought suspicious, and somebody caught having voted without the legal right would be guilty of a fairly serious crime. There has been some inter-party rancor, and accusations of vote fraud brought up without real evidence. The Franken-Coleman senatorial election was exceedingly close, but all the arguing was about counting the ballots, not vote fraud.

      If you want me to support voter ID requirements, give me a real reason to do so, not some vague fears of yours. Show me when that would have prevented fraud, and how much.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    17. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by topology · · Score: 1

      Could you cite a formal study of the error rates on vote casting for the different voting devices used, broken down by demographic?

    18. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      I await your statistical proof of that statement.

    19. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Having a social security number has nothing to do with citizenship. Anyone who works legally in the US is eligible for a SSN. All of the non-citizens who are in the country legally working with a green card have SSNs. As an example I specifically know about, Nicolas Batum, a French citizen who plays for the Portland Trailblazers has a social security number. Another example would be a coworker of mine. He is originally from South Africa but found his wife in the US. He became a citizen about 6 years ago but he had been living and working in the US for a decade before that and he had a SSN long before he became a naturalized citizen.

      So what is this paperwork that is only given to citizens that Obama is planning to give them? The only paperwork I'm aware of that is given to citizens is a birth certificate showing you were born in the US or that one of your parents is a citizen or naturalization papers such as were given to my coworker from South Africa.

    20. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 0

      You are aware that it is impossible to prove a negative, right? For the sake of argument, what error rate would you expect for voting? Any reasonable non-zero guess is going to result in at least one error in 19,000.

    21. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Explain why you're against asking for voter ID at the polling place but think that's okay at a liquor store? Explain why you favor more security to buy booze then to vote in a national election.

      I'm sorry. You have no case and your position on this matter is disappointing. You're effectively protecting systemic voter fraud by preventing even rudimentary security.

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    22. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      The government has already confirmed that it is possible. You're basically saying the federal government is wrong. And given that the federal government is the last word on that issue... your point is beyond pointless.

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    23. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      You make the claim yet cite no evidence. Why not link to a federal document that says this?

    24. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      You're basically just lying now.

      Answer this question NOW with no further evasions.

      Why do you think it is appropriate to have more ID checks for someone to buy beer then vote in a national election?

      Answer the question. Your political faction has been exploiting weaknesses in our polling system for generations and the evasions at this point are just bred into your bones at this point.

      Answer this very simple question or you are admitting I am right.

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    25. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      I think the proper time to validate whether someone is eligible to vote is when they register to vote. All that should be required on election day is the valid signature of a validly registered voter.

    26. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      I win.

      You just said it should require a photo ID to buy beer but no such thing required when you vote.

      Checkmate. We're done.

      *walks off*

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    27. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      It's been over 30 years since anyone asked me for ID when I buy beer.

      I didn't say anything about not requiring some form of ID when you register to vote.

      I'll believe that ID should be required to vote when someone demonstrates there is any amount of voter fraud that presenting such an ID prevent. No one has been able to do that even though it was a point of emphasis for the Bush II US Attorneys. So it's the epitome of an unnecessary law to require such an ID for voting.

    28. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If I'm protecting systemic voter fraud, show me the goddam fraud! That's what I'm asking. Show me some significant fraud that ID cards would have prevented, if you want to convince me.

      If you can't point to some fraud that ID cards would have prevented, why should I be in favor of voter ID? Not everybody has a driver's license, and getting an ID can be awkward for someone in the wrong neighborhood.

      And, again, unless you can show me some fraud, you have no case and your position on this matter is faith-based.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    29. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      Show me when a person clearly over 18 can possibly not be entitled to buy alchohol?

      Half the reason the evidence is often scanty is that there is no investigation and no mechanism in place to investigate it.

      An example of something similar would be that in Japan unsolved murders are often cited as "accidental deaths" even when they were clearly murders. The reason being that it looks better on the crime statistics. It is a big problem in Japan to have unsolved murders. It is also partially why their suicide rate is so high... many of their suicides are not suicides at all but merely murders that the police couldn't figure out.

      There is no mechanism in place to check for such fraud and all attempts to check for it are met with idiotic comments like the ones you're making.

      You're saying that I have to show a murder happened before you'll hire detectives to investigate whether murders have happened. It is a catch 22 that only confuses the stupid.

      You are backing a policy that puts a higher burden of identification on someone checking a book out from a library or buying a beer then voting for national politicians that have the power to declare wars or change the basic laws of our society.

      It is beyond idiotic. You either have your head terminally up your own ass... as in you've apparently asphyxiated from lack of oxygen up there or you're just lying. Either way... I have no patience for this discussion. Its too fucking stupid.

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    30. Re:Anyone wonder why this isn't hitting Wyoming? by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      I'm asked for ID every time and so is my father. So... no.

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  19. Re:He Was The Disease by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

    Tell your brother in law that Obamacare can save him, but only if he repents.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  20. Re:He Was The Disease by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 0, Insightful

    You have no idea what you are talking about. When RR took office, the prime interest rate was over 20%, mortgage rates were about 18%, inflation was running at 13%, there were long lines to buy gasoline and the cost of heating skyrocketed. By the time he left office in 1989, 18 million new jobs had been created, inflation was cut to 4%, interest rates were cut in half, the Federal Registry of regulations had half the number of pages, and the Iron Curtain had come down. Reagan freed millions people from tyranny. He was a hero.

  21. Per Specs by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    If they were cleaned per the Manufacturer's specs (which feels a little like the fox cleaning the hen house) then said company should be fined into oblivion and all involved with writing and approving said procedures held in gaol for quite some time.

    But America, so jack shit will happen.

    1. Re:Per Specs by Tiger4 · · Score: 1

      The manufacturer is under investigation. No surprise then that it lead to some illness

      --
      Behold, this dreamer cometh. Come now, and let us slay him... and we shall see what will become of his dreams.
  22. Re:He Was The Disease by riverat1 · · Score: 1

    Most of that is stuff that would have happened regardless of who was President. Reagan (and Bush 1) also ballooned the national debt from about $908 billion in 1980 (32.5% of GDP) to $3,233 in 1990 (54.4% of GDP).

  23. Re:He Was The Disease by umghhh · · Score: 1, Troll
    I seriously doubt that he had anything to do with freeing me from tyranny. These were my fellow citizens who kicked the collective ass of communist party plus communist parties themselves by running their economies to the ground and seeing everything as danger to communist ideals thus suffocating all non-governemnt initiated activity except resistance. He happened to be just at the right spot to take the glory.
    US were sick when he took office. I am not sure they recovered all that much unless of course you take that the status of US finances is perfect.

    This is a bit OT but still. I saw a documentary about him not long time ago where they said that although he was a right wing anticommunist radical there were only 3 'marines sending events' at his watch - the smallest number since WWII. No wonder nobody likes US and US embassies have to look like fortresses. But hey this was apparently not his fault!

  24. Re:He Was The Disease by TwoEyedJack · · Score: 0

    For which you can thank the democratic congress. Reagan shut down the government multiple times in budget fights to rein in spending, but there is only so much one man can do.

  25. Which bacteria? by edibobb · · Score: 1

    There is a whole family of bacteria in enterobacteriaceae, the E of CRE, including from E. coli to Salmonella. The brilliant story doesn't bother to mention which bacteria is causing the infections.

  26. Look up CRE by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Current estimates are that 3% of patients in ICU test positive and 1/3 of people in nursing homes.

    You read that right, 1/3. Also multiple types of bacteria are CRE. It means they have an enzyme that breaks down a class of antibotics.

    This has been sneaking up on us for a while.

    I think that the problem is, most bacteria are usually harmless, but these can't be killed easy, and if they ever turn into blood infections the mortality rate seems to be 50%.

  27. Re:He Was The Disease by shihonage · · Score: 1

    Uh, no. Reagan would be vilified by the RINOs in the same way Ted Cruz is.

  28. superbug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    0.0125 isn't a very impressive kd imo