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Apple To Invest $2B Building Green Data Centers In Ireland and Denmark
stephendavion writes Amid deeper investigations into how Apple may be using its operations in Ireland as a means for tax avoidance on tens of billions of dollars in profit, the iPhone maker has announced that it will spend nearly $2 billion (€1.7 billion) to develop two new 100% renewable energy data centers in Europe. The centers — which will use wind power and other green fuel sources — will be located in Athenry, Ireland, and Viborg, Denmark. Apple said that they will power services such as apps in the App Store, Siri and iMessage. Both locations will run on 100 percent renewable energy and Apple said they will have the 'lowest environmental impact' of its data centers thus far. It will also be following in the footsteps of companies like Facebook, which has also built sustainable data center operations out in Europe.
Because they already have major data centers in the US and want more of them closer to their customers in Europe?
which will use wind power and other green fuel sources
Green fuel sources like, for example, soylent green.
In proper Slashdot form, I'm just speculating with no real information on the matter, but I think it something to do with a quantity of eggs being put in a particular number of baskets.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
100%? like pendulum swinging forever 100%? exergy never runs out? astounding
using non apple hardware? will they be on osX?
Way to be completely spin the story to be ant-Apple. If Apple were truly as horrible as the iHaters say, why do they have to lie about stories? Just talk about the real bad things Apple does? There must be so numerous, right? Why stoop to untruths and lies?
it would be monumentally stupid to put a data center that serves European costumers at the other end of a transatlantic cable
It might be due a tax advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if a European country would give Apple a tax break on products if they placed a datacenter on their soil, especially Apple specifically since it is the least hated of US companies [1].
The ironic thing is a data center most likely bring few to no jobs once initial configuration is done. A few people to watch power and HVAC, 2-3 operator-level techs to replace drives and blades, security staff, and maybe a few facilities people. All the rest can be handled via remote. If the parent A/C is right, this provides little to the country, other than perhaps the ability to coerce Apple into letting the country spy on whomever has stuff stored there.
[1]: It seems like the EU, whenever they need a PR boost, decides to re-fine Google or Motorola over something they already settled, or just drag the company into court again for another misdeed... which domestic companies are able to do all the time. However, Apple doesn't seem to be on the EU's kangaroo court list.
Why would the price go up? They can simply wind down some coal or gas powered plants and pass the savings on to the customers. I smell shenanigans on the side of your power company, your prices would've gone up regardless. In one version it would be 'because Apple is using more power than they told us' in the other, it would be 'because Apple isn't using all the power they told us'.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
More green of them to make devices that last for atleast 10 years .. Think of the electronic waste that apple/samsung and etc have created in the last 10 years !!!!
The area of forestry they are felling in Ireland is 300 acres, not thousands of acres. I know because I walk my dogs there sometimes.
Yeah, because Denmark is known to be have very low taxes.
And because AFAIK data held on EU customers must be held on servers within the EU, for data protection reasons.
Exactly. Slashdotters are forgetting that Apple has customers in the EU.
Data centers are a cost. Revenue is recognized elsewhere.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Most likely because physical proximity to the people loading data is important, and reduces latency. Apple already have several very large data centers in the US.
Wind and solar has a proven track record of being UNSUSTAINABLE unless a disproportionate amount of land is used (ruined) to commit for huge unsightly wind and solar farms.
God I hope nobody lives anywhere near where those engineering abomination will be built. Wind power generation is HORRIBLE to live near.
The US has the highest effective corporate tax rate, so yes, Denmark has to be lower.
The main difference is that the high rates exist here mainly to keep small businesses from becoming competitive with the multinationals (which buy off the politicians with campaign money in exchange for favorable treatment).
And, yes, Apple is trying to reduce its US footprint wherever it doesn't really matter. The only surprise is that they haven't bought Cuba (yet).
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Look -- I'm here in Europe, so from a selfish standpoint that's fine and dandy. But why the hell not in the US? Somehow I smell shenanigan.
So they can "sell" the usage of these data centers to other divisions of Apple, thereby funneling profits to Ireland resulting in reduced taxes.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
Yeah sure, paint them green if you want, they're yours.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
But why the hell not in the US? Somehow I smell shenanigan.
Umm...they're doing both. They announced a 2900-acre US-based solar farm almost two weeks ago. This announcement is following on the heels of that one and looks to be a bit larger in scale (possibly because they don't already have smaller facilities in Europe like they've had for awhile in the US?). There's no reason why they have to choose either the US or Europe when they have the resources to do both.
So you pay tax on costs in USA? Or how exactly is Apple then avoiding US taxes by placing their losses outside USA?
So now they are investing in socialism! Traitors.
OK...
And I think it's just a crime that replacing batteries is such a pain in the ass and expensive just because they can.
They made the phone thinner at the expense of user-replaceable batteries because buyers care more about phone thickness than about being able to replace batteries. HTH, HAND.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Umm...they're doing both. They announced a 2900-acre US-based solar farm almost two weeks ago.
Yes, they're siting it on a former dry farm. So they're destroying sustainable agriculture for the benefit of their sustainable power supply. But they won't be reducing the demand for agriculture, so someone else will spin up a farm somewhere else, probably using water. Pretty shitty site. Meanwhile there's BLM land up here not that far north of the site which is only currently being used for clear-cutting.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
My theory is that these are inducements to keep the 'double irish' and 'dutch sandwich' tax dodges available. It seems highly unlikely that Ireland and Netherlands, the two countries that have Allowed apple to avoid hundreds of billions in taxes, and which have suggested that they might change these tax practices, have suddenly become recipients of major investments.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/d/double-irish-with-a-dutch-sandwich.asp
You've confused statutory with effective rate.
The US has one of the lowest effective rates (how much the corporation actually pays after deductions, etc.), but one of the highest statutory rates (the worst theoretical possible rate that a corporation would pay if it had zero deductions and enormous profits).
If the company that built the hydro projects made any money they would be able to invest in other projects. Also, in a country the size of Ireland you can still make money putting energy into the grid. Maybe in your state they messed up and didn't think through what would actually happen when the data center was ready. That doesn't mean the Irish will make the same fuck up.
I don't understand why they build a datacenter in Ireland, it's not exactly the most central part of Europe. When you build a datacenter isn't it best to build it in the center for the most populated area to reduce the latency for as many people as possible?
To me it seems like an European company building a datacenter in Puerto Rico to have a datacenter closer to its customers in the US.
I'm sure jobless people in Ireland will be happy to lose a few trees if they can put some food on the table of their families. Obviously trees can be planted elsewhere. All this stuff about tax avoidance is BS. Ireland is being more competive and therefore deserve the business. If the US wants to keep jobs in the US then they also need to be more competitive
Where will they find a few thousand acres of forest in Athenry?
http://www.acetonestudio.com
I'm sure jobless people in Ireland will be happy to lose a few trees if they can put some food on the table of their families.
Right. At the expense of others. The whole system is rotten, it's not just Apple.
If the US wants to keep jobs in the US then they also need to be more competitive
It's hard to be more competitive than someone willing to sell out their country's future and everyone else's too. I thought we the USA had already proven that?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Probably just fast growing conifers anyway. It's not like there is much deciduous forest left in Ireland.
http://www.acetonestudio.com
Surely it would be more circumspect to place said eggs in a custom made styrofoam container rather than the 'basket' you suggest. This basket is surely unsuited to the task and will most likely result in breakage of its contents. Am I missing the point?
http://www.acetonestudio.com
Run, screaming with the profits you have made on this stock. Otherwise, the malinvestments of these leftist lunatics will come back to haunt you!
They probably already have datacenters there. This is simple greenwashing. They will clearcut a few thousand acres of forest and tilt up solar/wind. Then the power companies that they contracted with will be screwed because they built up to handle the Apple data centers.
Right... There's no possible way that they might need to increase their capacity in Europe, is there?
Nope. These placements are being offered as bribe money in kind to lessen or totally eliminate the fines Apple should have to pay for playing a tax evasion shell game with their massive global profits.
If you really think these being placed in Ireland (Double Irish) and the Netherlands (Dutch Sandwich) just by sheer accident, you may be one of the most Pollyannaish fanboys queuing in front of the Chrystal Cubic Cathedral.
Given that the market is already oversaturated with supply, suggesting that the loss of a low-yield source will necessarily create a vacuum that must be filled is a rather disingenuous argument.
Specifically, dry farming is an inherently low-yield form of agriculture (and one which has a history of leading to dust storms and erosion in the areas where it's practiced, I'll add, since it eliminates ground cover), and the US already has a massive surplus of food supply each year (which is why we waste so much of it on useless stuff like corn for ethanol). Losing a single farm will almost certainly not have any sort of significant impact on the food supply, nor will someone set up a new, irrigation-based farm to deal with the loss of supply caused by this one's closure. Demand already outstrips supply. There will be no vacuum to fill.
On the other hand, demand routinely outstrips supply when it comes to power in California, and the excess power from this solar farm will supply enough for 60,000 homes. I'm not a huge proponent of clean power, but even I have to admit that keeping that many homes from having to use coal or similar sources would be beneficial.
You are wrong on all accounts, but that is perhaps the reason you are posting anonymously?
I don't know about Ireland, but as I am from Denmark, I know about the reason here.
1.
Trust me, they don't get a tax break here, because no one does. Everything in Denmark revolves around 'paying taxes', even when a previous liberal government said they would halt the taxes, they didn't.
The reason, or one of the reasons, they chose Denmark was that we are a power-wise green country, and we can get a lot of power from surrounding countries if necessary. Last year 39% of electricity in Denmark came from windmills, and Sweden and Norway has a lot of waterpower that may be used on a not so windy day.
As a backup, German power is available, and they also have windmills.
2.
The size of the data center will be 160,000m and they talk about a couple of hundred workers there.
That may not sound like much, but the effects on the local community could be large, as that may require people to stay there with families, requiring schools, public bus and train transportation, local shops, perhaps an upgraded local airport.
It may attract other domestic and foreign companies to put up a site in the neighborhood, because if Apple can do it, why not someone else?
So, it could eventually become thousands of people that are affected in a positive way by such a center.
3. ;-)
The EU is always treating all companies the same, regardless of where they come from. And we do that because EU is still a rather loose organization of very distinct and independent countries.
You know, Fiat and Chrysler would be treated equal, oh sorry, Fiat bought Chrysler, so of course
Please let me know what EU based company has been able to do, that a US company was penalized for?
This is becoming popular PR stunt for making people look other way from no humans involved in operations.
But we are green so we are cool people you know.
"Green" is a nice spin on paying even less U.S. taxes. May as well join all the other U.S. energy companies doing the same thing.
Tax dodge. Taking advantage of treaties between Ireland, Denmark, and the EU to avoid paying taxes on their profits.
http://www.investopedia.com/te...
You should read up on the irish-dutch sandwitch tax dodge. That is exactly what they are doing.
http://www.investopedia.com/te...
http://www.investopedia.com/te...
Apple fronted GT Technologies the money to build the facility in order to build displays for Apple products, and requred GT itself as collateral. Apple then chose not to buy GT-manfuactured Sapphire screens, and acquired GT when they could not pay back the money fronted. Tell me again how that's an honest business practice.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
Current cite demonstrating US having one of the lowest effective rates?
BTW, your definitions of effective rate and statutory rate are flat out wrong. Effective rate is the tax paid and accrued on net income on a financial accounting basis. The statutory rate is the rate of tax paid on net income on a tax accounting basis. The fact that there is a difference between the two is an indictment of how the tax system is written. It has nothing to do with having zero deductions.
If you think deeply enough, you will have no single direction for your outrage.
Apple fronted GT Technologies the money to build the facility in order to build displays for Apple products, and requred GT itself as collateral. Apple then chose not to buy GT-manfuactured Sapphire screens, and acquired GT when they could not pay back the money fronted. Tell me again how that's an honest business practice.
You forgot the part where GT didn't actually manage to produce the Sapphire Crystal displays that they had promised they could deliver. And you forgot the part where GT management lined their pockets with stock options, making sure that they made their money, no matter whether the company did well or not.
Apple spends 2 billion in places where they can continue avoid paying US taxes and the governments bend over backwards to treat them like royalty. Anyone who thinks this is about "green power" is delusional.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
You should read up on the irish-dutch sandwitch tax dodge. That is exactly what they are doing.
http://www.investopedia.com/te...
"DEFINITION of 'Double Irish With A Dutch Sandwich'
A tax avoidance technique employed by certain large corporations, involving the use of a combination of Irish and Dutch subsidiary companies to shift profits to low or no tax jurisdictions. The double Irish with a Dutch sandwich technique involves sending profits first through one Irish company, then to a Dutch company and finally to a second Irish company headquartered in a tax haven. This technique has allowed certain corporations to dramatically reduce their overall corporate tax rates."
If I missed the point of your link then I'm sorry but please be more specific.
While I cannot comment on the Irish Taxbreak thing, Denmark really isn't a Tax Haven at all.
Not by any stretch of the imagination.
BS. Its to prevent the latest government ideas about taxing the US companies for their tax sheltering shenanigans.
"See? we do have business abroad! its not just so we won't pay taxes"
Lawyers will be lawyers.
If the US or Spain want to compete with Ireland on tax, they are welcome to. Why should we apologise for being competitive? The City of London has similar tax arrangements, and yet that hyprocrite David Cameron frown at Ireland doing it. The right wing in the USA want lower taxes AND higher subsidies for all corporations, but when Ireland offers lower coporation tax, and no subsidies, the same Americans whinge and whine. Personally I don't believe the location of this data center has nothing got to do with our low corporate taxes btw, and everything got to do with our cool windy climate.
All of the other answers so far miss the main reason - it is because European corporations have zero trust in USA to keep their data confidential, and also due to legal barriers which prevent storing certain sensitive data outside the EU. If Apple wants to provide a cloud platform that people/corporations dare use, they need to offer local storage in EU juristiction.
Other than that, there is probably a latency issue, green energy aspect (in Denmark we are front-runners for various efficiency and green energy technologies), and I bet that Tim Cook really likes Denmark - we are open and friendly.
You should read up on the irish-dutch sandwitch tax dodge. That is exactly what they are doing.
http://www.investopedia.com/te...
They may use this technique, but it has nothing to do with the current news.
Dutch people live in Holland
Danish people live in Denmark.
The new datacenter is in Denmark, not Holland.
The treaty you refer to is between Ireland and Holland (where the Dutch live), not Denmark where danish people live.