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Mysterious Siberian Crater Is Just One of Many
New submitter Sardaukar86 sends this excerpt from a Washington Post report:
In the middle of last summer came news of a bizarre occurrence no one could explain. Seemingly out of nowhere, a massive crater appeared in one of the planet's most inhospitable lands. Early estimates said the crater, nestled in a land called "the ends of the Earth" where temperatures can sink far below zero, yawned nearly 100 feet in diameter. The saga deepened. The Siberian crater wasn't alone. There were two more, ratcheting up the tension in a drama that hit its climax as a probable explanation surfaced. Global warming had thawed the permafrost, which had caused methane trapped inside the icy ground to explode.
Now, however, researchers fear there are more craters than anyone knew — and the repercussions could be huge. Russian scientists have now spotted a total of seven craters, five of which are in the Yamal Peninsula. Two of those holes have since turned into lakes. And one giant crater is rimmed by a ring of at least 20 mini-craters, the Siberian Times reported.
Now, however, researchers fear there are more craters than anyone knew — and the repercussions could be huge. Russian scientists have now spotted a total of seven craters, five of which are in the Yamal Peninsula. Two of those holes have since turned into lakes. And one giant crater is rimmed by a ring of at least 20 mini-craters, the Siberian Times reported.
Black Rock City Subway categorically denies that these craters are a result of our sandworm breeding program. Scurrilous reports in The Daily Mail fail to take into account that sandworms react poorly to moist environments. Sometimes they even explode when exposed to water. Oh, wait...
-- This sig is only a test. If this were a real sig it would say something witty. --
What are you talking about? Pseudo-scientific bullshit it what /. is about!
The only one I see "wailing" here is you. People are confused and somewhat concerned, not "wailing".
1. This land is geologically YOUNG, it is less than ten thousand years old
2. The earth itself is warming the underside of the permafrost, even if there is contribution from global warming https://cage.uit.no/news/metha...
Thus there is no reason to wail about some imagined harbinger of doom because of these sinkholes.
iggymanz may very well be one of the worlds leading scientists with a better understanding of this than the interviewed researches, but regardless you seem to be attacking a straw man as most of the researchers interviewed in the article seems curious and open, have theories but says more research is needed. The only one with very strongly worded categorical claims here here is you.
If they were sinkholes, there wouldn't be ejecta around the crater edge. Something must have exploded.
Gazprom is aggressively and heroically working to remove the methane from the ground in that region. With any luck, they'll be able to remove it all so we can burn it before anything goes wrong.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Methane has always been combustible.
Supporter of the +1 Over Dramatic mod option. In memory of apk.
That's mostly because people around the world are very careful not to let sufficient quantities of methane mix with air in an stoichiometric ratio.
There are a series of "craters" in the U.S. as well, though much older. The Carolina bays are elliptical depressions located along the Atlantic seaboard of unknown origin. Theories of the origins being geologic or extraterrestrial impacts have come in and out of favor. Nobody really knows. (And before you say that impact craters are round regardless of the angle of impact, that's true until you get to very shallow impact angles. Then the craters end up being oval.)
It never combusted. The permafrost melted and it all just went in the atmosphere and the loss of mass caused a sinkhole. The summary is bad. There was never a explosion besides the dust settling. Think ice sheet breaking. Once it pasts melting point, it accelerates fast enough to watch it with your eyes. If this keep happening most of the timescale modals of global warming are off and we will have reached a weird point-of-no-return due to the major mass of methane added to the atmosphere all at once.
What good is a Doomsday device if nobody knows about?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
You need to find out about methane clathrates. They are very roughly a chemical compound of methane and water which is solid and stable at low temperatures and moderately high pressures (as found under a few hundred meters of water or ice, for instance. When they get a bit too warm, or the pressure drops a bit they turn back into methane gas and water. One cubic meter of clathrate released almost 200 cubic meters of methane gas, which then has to go somewhere producing something like an explosion. At no point did the methane burn (it was nowhere near any free oxygen until it got to the surface, it was just a gas pressure explosion.
This is old news - the craters have a known, definitive explanation and it's not anything mysterious.
Also known as methane hydrates, there is no use of the word "explosive" on the mh page. It has a density lower than water, so tends to bubble up (and then evaporate). Being denser than air, it could accumulate at times and potentially explode in that scenario. But not underground, creating giant holes.
I come here for the love
I think the idea is this:
You have a large volume of clathrates underneath ice or frozen soil.
As things warm, they start to break down and a reservoir of methane gas builds up
at high pressure.
Eventually the pressure reaches the point where it can push aside or lift up or whatever the ice at its weakest point
and it finds a route to the surface.
Now you have a LOT of gas rushing through some kind of hole, a little bit like an oil well blowout and the gas flow erodes the sides of the hole and throws soil or ice into the air and generally starts to make a crater.
Furthermore the escape of all this gas lowers the pressure down where the clathrates are quite suddenly, so the breakdown accelerated greatly, providing still more gas to ruch up through the hole.
So not really an explosion, perhaps more like a blowout, but still fairly violent simply because of the amount of gas and the pressure.
At no point does it combust.
If these are truly explosions ejecting many tons of earth out of these holes, wouldn't they be detected by seismographs around the world, or at least in Russia? I think they should plant seismic detectors in the area so they can immediately detect the next explosion and quickly send a research team to site.
Yes, if there had been a large explosion, even if it was not combustion, that amount of earth moving would have been measurable by seismic instruments thousands of miles away. Quarry explosions have been known to display as earthquakes as large as 2.7 on the Richter scale and felt for hundreds of miles, and those would pale in comparison to the amount of earth movement involved in the Siberian craters. It is much more likely that they escaping gas just gradually caused sinkholes, which would still create seismic events, but would be more likely many smaller ones and probably would not pick up on instruments unless they were within 100 miles.
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
I guess I'm not having chilli for dinner tonight.
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Imagine a large pocket of methane suddenly bursting free under some pressure. It would only take a little spark to set it off. For example, throw some stones onto some other stones. Just two stones hitting each other would make a nice spark etc.. That would easily create some big holes.
It doesn't usually work that way. If it did, we'd have far more fires and explosions in homes that heat with gas.
When gas leaks, the vast majority of the gassed area has too high concentration of gas, and too low concentration of oxygen, to burn. Further out, it's too much air and too little gas. It is only at the "interface" between those two conditions that combustion is possible, and relatively speaking that's a miniscule volume compared to either the "air" volume or the "gas" volume at any given time.
In addition to that, if ignition does occur, usually only that small volume with the ideal mix burns, leaving (again) a volume of too-high concentration, and another too low. Explosions can alter that by chaotically mixing the gas with the surrounding air, and multiplying itself. But that seldom happens.
To sum it all up: gas fires and explosions are not very common, because conditions have to be nearly ideal at the precise spot where the ignition takes place. They happen on TV vastly more often than in real life.
Oh so according to you, it can't ever happen even in an area of many tens of thousands of acres, even if we wait years to find a few events.
That isn't what I said,
Trying to put words in my mouth is a dick thing to do. Knock it off.
It would only take a little spark to set it off.
If ignition actually happened, my bet is on a triboelectric spark. All that soil and ice getting tossed up will generate a charge, just like you see in thunderstorms and volcanic eruptions.
The holes are not mysterious at all. There is even a name for them.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/201...
Ice expands as it freezes. We also know water under pressure will super cool and not freeze but it will still expand. Take a pop bottle and fill it with water without putting the cap on and set it in the freezer. It will spill out the top. Put the cap on it and it will simple expand the plastic bottle (or break a glass bottle)
Now imagine a hole in the ground or a pocket of water just under the surface of the ground. It freezes, pushes up, and brings the ground with it a bit. It's under pressure so it doesn't all freeze but exerts force in pretty much a radius. The relief point is up until the weight of the column of water finds another relief point (a crack in the earth leading to sea or something.) If you look at the craters again, you will not find enough material around the edges to correct for the amount missing from the hole.
Now there is something called geothermal flux which is more or less changes in the heat within the ground. It is already being blamed for some of the permafrost melting. And we know there are perforations within the permafrost in the sea beds off the coast which are letting methane release. It's could have aided in the release and removal of material assuming water under pressure was in fact not frozen in these areas.
The pictures do not look like sink holes can be ruled out. What would likely rule sink holes out would be the depths of the permafrost as well as when it was originally established (the last ice age I believe).