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Game of Drones: As US Dithers, Rivals Get a Head Start

Amanda Parker writes Drones, or unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), are a hot ticket in Silicon Valley, but U.S. government dithering over regulations has given overseas companies a head-start in figuring out how best to exploit them. Global spending on drones could add up to close to $100 billion over the next decade, with commercial uses — from farming and filming to pipelines and parcels — accounting for around an eighth of that market, according to BI Intelligence. But for years, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), the authority largely responsible for regulation in the United States, has dragged its feet, only last month issuing draft rules on who can fly drones, how and where. It's likely to be a year or more before the regulations are in place — good news for companies operating outside the U.S. and looking to build a business around drones.

85 comments

  1. "Good News" is Relative by jythie · · Score: 2

    I don't know, this sounds like something good for US companies. US companies are not allowed to compete with each other yet (so there is no race to be first), but they do get to sit back and watch companies in other countries make all the mistakes first, then get to implement their businesses based off those cautionary tales.

    1. Re:"Good News" is Relative by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      I think the issue is there are too many people in the American Market that takes Science Fiction not as a worst case scenario, meant to allow for conflict in a book to become a prophetic warning about any use of such technology.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:"Good News" is Relative by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I'm a firm believer in technology. But I am also a firm believer that just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should.

      Just because I have a high power zoom lens on my camera doesn't mean I should be able to take pictures of my hot neighbor in the shower.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    3. Re:"Good News" is Relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thalidomide is science fiction?

    4. Re:"Good News" is Relative by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed.

      It's one thing to have some neat-o technology, but another to rush out and shove it into mass production just because OMG Europe and Asia is doing it, guys! Hurry the fsck up!!!11!!

      Seriously; drones already create inter-neighbor privacy concerns, a potential hazard as they occasionally crash into stuff, and seriously, there's a potential that it can provide one more step towards a surveillance society that is entirely unwelcome.

      Oh, a small tangent: I live in a very rural area expressly for the peace and quiet. Unless I'm running it, a drone buzzing over my property, snooping around and making noise, only means one thing: target practice. Not because of any tinfoil factor, but because it's an annoyance and a trespass. I am very certain that I'm not alone in this. You want drones buzzing about your area, fine... just don't intrude on those of us who have no use or desire for the things.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    5. Re:"Good News" is Relative by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I don't know, this sounds like something good for US companies. US companies are not allowed to compete with each other yet (so there is no race to be first), but they do get to sit back and watch companies in other countries make all the mistakes first, then get to implement their businesses based off those cautionary tales.

      That is brilliant! What other industries do you think we could dominate by outlawing mistakes?

    6. Re:"Good News" is Relative by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      I think we do get a lot of this.... I have had even fairly smart people say things like "Well just look at rapture, that proves laissez-faire capitalism doesn't work".

      I mean, its not like there aren't plenty of criticizms for all sorts of ideas, philosophical and otherwise, but, a fictional story doesn't prove anything....a story is often written backwards from problem to plausible cause, they are written based on the biases of their authors, they prove nothing except, what the author thought.

      Certainly it presents a cautionary tale, and it presents a certain point of view, but there is a lot of daylight between exploring a possible scenario and proving anything. Just because it can be imagined doesn't mean its a real issue (or that it isn't).

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    7. Re:"Good News" is Relative by jythie · · Score: 2

      Better be careful about that, the legality of destroying drones over your property has not actually been settled yet. When a trespass is not a significant physical threat, the use of firearms becomes much more restrictive and butts up with 'destruction of property', which is its own offense.

    8. Re:"Good News" is Relative by xdor · · Score: 2

      You have the right idea. I would hope you would shoot down a drone flying low over your property.

      The problem is the FAA is claiming I can't fly a drone over your property at your request in order to provide some service (crop inspection, land survey, etc.) because they are claiming (incorrectly IMO) that they own all the airspace over your land.

      I would rather private property air-rights were increased to 1200 feet (right now they are arguably somewhere between 83 and 500 feet, except for those idiots in Oregon that ceded air-rights to the state from ankle-height). I don't think the FAA has the rights to restrict what you do with your airspace: and that's what they are trying to do.

      In the end: I wouldn't worry about the drones you can see and shoot down with your shotgun (and you should): it's the ones you can't see you should be concerned about.

    9. Re:"Good News" is Relative by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Not too much of a worry. In most locations its tresspassing just to enter anothers property without permission. In most casez, you lose the ability to seek redress for harm thst came to you during the violation of a crime (thanks to rediculous lawsuits in the past).

      It will depend on where you are but it does not worry me where i am at.

    10. Re:"Good News" is Relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except stories are often times grounded on reality. The story of Rapture is basically a story of mid-19th century American taken into a pseudo sci-fi setting.

      Blacks kept in slavery? Guess what, thats actually part of American history.
      Anti-Chinese racism? Guess what, thats actually part of American history.
      American Imperialism? Guess what, thats actually part of American history.
      Economic disparity between whites with wealth and whites without wealth? Guess what, thats actually part of American history.

      Sometimes being the first isn't always the best. Whether its in drone regulations or imposing the latest social/political/economic philosophy.

    11. Re:"Good News" is Relative by jythie · · Score: 1

      It is currently a very local thing, with trespass and nuisance laws varying. However one major piece to keep in mind is property rights do not extend to the airspace above a parcel, with navigable airspace being considered public domain, so that makes things more complicated right there.

      It should also be noted that you do NOT waive your ability to seek redress from harm when committing a crime, at least not automatically. If you, as a property owner, destroy someone's else's property, they generally can bring legal action against you, at which point the property owner has to demonstrate that not only was there a legal trespass (not clear when it comes to property trespassing as opposed to people) but that it was threatening enough to use violent destruction against as opposed to contacting law enforcement.

      Since no test cases have completed yet, it is hard to say what it will be 'similar to' and thus which laws apply.

    12. Re:"Good News" is Relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I would hope you would shoot down

      Such a gut response is understandable, but pausing to reflect, that's pretty dangerous. Just as with thoughtless shots into the air on occasions like New Year's, some will come down and hurt people. And crashing drones may hit something too.

      Of course far more frightening than bullets are the lawyers. Shooting drones may create liability issues!

      Then there are those folks in other countries defeating safety switches on microwave ovens and running them doors open pointed up. Some put the magnetrons with crude horns on old satellite dishes. Danger Will Robinson, besides other unintended consequences, that really can make you go blind. Roasted nuts anyone?? Please don't cook the birds.

    13. Re:"Good News" is Relative by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Certainly but, its still fiction. In fact, when you really get down to it stories, even factual ones, only talk about possible outcomes. Drawing back on my poker experience, I liken these anecdotes to what we call "rabbit hunting" when a hand is over, someone has folded, but the guy who folded wants to see what the next card would have been.

      In truth, its a pointless thing to do. Run the same situation over and over and the result will approach the average situation sure, but any one can only tell you what happened, it can't necessarily shed light on similar situations. Stories help you remember principles, but they never actually prove anything, even real ones only prove possible outcomes.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    14. Re:"Good News" is Relative by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unless I'm running it, a drone buzzing over my property, snooping around and making noise, only means one thing: target practice. Not because of any tinfoil factor, but because it's an annoyance and a trespass.

      Above 500ft, it's not a trespass. Shooting it just makes you a criminal.

    15. Re:"Good News" is Relative by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Property rights do extend to the airspace immediately above the land. For example, hovering a helicopter ten feet above somebody else's house would still constitute trespass. If the GP was complaining about a buzzing drone, this test would also be relevant:

      An entry above the surface of the earth, in the air space in the possession of another, by a person who is traveling in an aircraft, is privileged if the flight is conducted... at such a height as not to interfere unreasonably with the possessor’s enjoyment of the surface of the earth and the air space above it

      from here. Of course, this is specifically about occupied aircraft.

      There are plenty of established cases in the linked article dealing with trespass in the air above the property of others. There is also established case law regarding destruction of non-human trespassers. There's nothing specific to drones, but it's not exactly alien terrain.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    16. Re:"Good News" is Relative by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      They should not have flown their drone into my buckshot that definately have a right to have in the airspace ovee my property.

      And yes, im my area, you do kose your ability for redress when commiting a crime.

      And if ir is shot down on my property or ends up on it any other way, its mine just like the golf balls, frizbees, baseballs and anything else.

    17. Re:"Good News" is Relative by John.Banister · · Score: 1

      ?
      Mightn't you rather say "Just because I'm able to take pictures of my hot neighbor in the shower doesn't mean I should be taking pictures of my hot neighbor in the shower." Or, are you suggesting that your camera should recognize the zoom, camera location and direction and make it so you're not able to take those photos? Or, were you trying to say "doesn't mean I should be permitted to take pictures of my hot neighbor in the shower."

    18. Re:"Good News" is Relative by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Let me write a story for 100 years in the future...
      Religious intolerance is still there.
      Some grand experiment in a non-capitalistic economic system failed and became a dictatorship.
      A clash in gender differences.
      A food that we think is healthy is found to be harmful.
      Whites become a minority in america.

      If they try to make a fiction believable, they will play with the tensions of the time, and try to magnify it.
      Slavery - a good amount of debate for a while.
      Chinese racism - yea the typical european descended person values of superiority to a race with a very different culture. If you just need an excuse to ship more over then you will get the racism.
      American imperialism - Well there was european Imperialism it was all the rage back then.
      Economic disparity - that was happening that is still happening... I should have added that to my list of future events. We live in a world of scarcity we wouldn't be able to prosper is everyone got equal... So there is a level of disparity that will always happen... The trick is to try to get the best balance, right now I think we are out of balance with too little in the middle.

       

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    19. Re:"Good News" is Relative by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Wow, a dumbass that figured how to register with slashdot compare to what are you who cannot figure out how to log in.. interesting.

      I do believe i prefaced my comments had you bothered reading them or hold the comprehension abilities to understand them with " in my area" which makes anyone not in.my area meamingless to my comment. I guess in a way you are correct, i ignored everyone ese on earth with my comment, but that is also why i limited it to my area.

      So tell me, are you upset that if you fly your drone over my property it will be shot at? If so, you really are the one in control of that.

    20. Re:"Good News" is Relative by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Buckshot?

      #5 bird will do the job much better. Also safer downrange.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    21. Re:"Good News" is Relative by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      What kind of crazy 10 gauge tight choked goose gun can effectively shoot up to 500ft?

      At 500 ft I'd go for electronic methods. Lets see what the old spark gap generator does.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    22. Re:"Good News" is Relative by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      If she is showering in open view, then I'm all for taking pictures.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    23. Re:"Good News" is Relative by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Probably but i usually keep the guns loaded with either #000 or #0000 buck for other uses. There wouln't be too much to worry about downrange at my place but i understand the concern.

      We are not to the point i need to keep a drone gun handy yet. Cyotes and adicts trying to steal my nitrogen and anything else not nailed down are my main concerns.

  2. Good news or bad news? by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's likely to be a year or more before the regulations are in place — good news for companies operating outside the U.S. and looking to build a business around drones.

    Is that good news, really? I'm not sure I see why - if drones are unregulated enough in your country for you to start your business, what difference does it make what the US does?

    In fact, is it possibly even bad news? Might potential investors see the US as "leading the way" by regulating/dithering against drones, and that might put them off investing in companies in countries where there is currently little/no regulation?

    It's likely to be a year or more before the regulations are in place

    So what's the current situtation? Is it unregulated, or is commercial drone flying blanket banned?

    --
    systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    1. Re:Good news or bad news? by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

      I'm not even sure what the author is arguing for here. Is he saying there should be NO regulation of drones (because other countries don't do it)? Well sure, that's fine for now. But do you want a future where millions of those goddamn things are flying around everywhere with NO SAFETY REGULATIONS at all?

      Look if China and other countries want to put some minor business advantage ahead of public safety, then more power to them. But I much prefer living in a country where companies can't just do whatever the fuck they want with the excuse "But regulation could cost us some business advantage!"

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    2. Re:Good news or bad news? by tepples · · Score: 1

      if drones are unregulated enough in your country for you to start your business, what difference does it make what the US does?

      Because your business might be more profitable if it does not have to compete with imports from the United States than if it does.

      So what's the current situtation? Is it unregulated, or is commercial drone flying blanket banned?

      Commercial flight without a license is banned, and licenses are unavailable without regulation.

    3. Re:Good news or bad news? by monkeyxpress · · Score: 1

      Looks like the current situation is they are classified as model aircraft - so limits to where they can operate, must have human operator and line of site.

      Personally I think this cautious approach is a good way forward. Done right drones have a lot of potential, done badly it could really hold back the industry. Entrepreneurs need to be aware that it's not just about having a good idea, its about selling it to everyone else, including the wider society in which the idea survives. Otherwise you end up with Google Glass.

    4. Re:Good news or bad news? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Is he saying there should be NO regulation of drones (because other countries don't do it)?

      Other countries do have regulations. They just have sensible regulations, based on the size, weight, and capabilities of the drone. In the US the regulations are based primarily on whether it is "commercial" or "non-commercial". So the FAA is not concerned about safety, or privacy. They are primarily concerned about drones competing with piloted aircraft. This is an example of regulatory capture. The FAA is running a protection racket for pilots.

    5. Re:Good news or bad news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm not even sure what the author is arguing for here. Is he saying there should be NO regulation of drones (because other countries don't do it)? Well sure, that's fine for now. But do you want a future where millions of those goddamn things are flying around everywhere with NO SAFETY REGULATIONS at all?

      Not to mention the issues when somebody decides to shoot down a pesky drone.

      This has happened a few times with gun clubs and shooting ranges, but a few private homeowners as well.

    6. Re:Good news or bad news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And how is "sensible" defined? 10 kgs? 100 kgs? 1 meter in diameter? 10 meters in diameter? An altitude ceiling of 10 meters? An altitude ceiling of 1000 meters?

      Sooner or later one of these is going to fall out of the sky and there will be hell to pay.

    7. Re:Good news or bad news? by PPH · · Score: 1

      And how is "sensible" defined?

      Energy/damage potential equivalent to a bird strike. Something which aircraft certification already has to deal with. Operating ceilings can be estblished based on the minimums allowed for GA planes and helicopters. Keep drones below these operating minimums.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    8. Re:Good news or bad news? by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Other countries do have regulations. They just have sensible regulations, based on the size, weight, and capabilities of the drone. In the US the regulations are based primarily on whether it is "commercial" or "non-commercial". So the FAA is not concerned about safety, or privacy. They are primarily concerned about drones competing with piloted aircraft. This is an example of regulatory capture. The FAA is running a protection racket for pilots.

      Other countries generally have more restricted aviation industries than North America. In North America there's a lot of aviation activity out there - not just commercial and military, but general aviation which includes Joe out tor his $100 hamburger to Mr. Big CEO going from the west coast to the east for a meeting.

      Other countries generally are more restrictive (Europe burdens GA with heavy taxes, China is slowly opening up despite their military's object (the Chinese military owns all Chinese airspace)), etc. So they don't have as many problems with trying to fit general aviation alongside drones.

      Plus, the toy drones probably don't go high enough to be a problem, and well, if you're trying to use a DJI Phantom to take photos, I'm sure the local police and others have plenty to get you on. Plus, other countries generally are more regulated so you're not making huge quadcopters without the government already knowing.

      In fact, model aircraft is an exemption the FAA grants provided you follow certain rules. You're not immune from the FARs just because you're flying under model aircraft 'rules". It's an advisory circular - something that just clarifies what the FAA will generally allow, but not a rule. Idiots flying drones in ways that endanger the public (including dive bombs, erratic flying through tunnels, etc) have been fined by FAA actions despite appeals to the NTSB. The ruling stands that even if it was under "model aircraft" rules, it was still an aircraft subject to the FAA.

    9. Re:Good news or bad news? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      birds are hollow inside. Drones have a fucking battery inside. There's a difference. Think of it more like throwing a D cell for a tiny, or a 20 lb chunk of lead for a "small" UAS. I think the regs should have only included UAVs under 5lbs, not 50 kg. Of course, it's me and my passengers that will be killed by your toy. The RC hobbyists have demonstrated responsibly flying. Capitalism in the US has not demonstrated doing anything responsibly unless well regulated.

    10. Re:Good news or bad news? by xevioso · · Score: 1

      Birds are hollow inside? WTF? Have you ever actually opened up a bird? It's full of meat and stuff.

    11. Re:Good news or bad news? by jp10558 · · Score: 1

      if you're trying to use a DJI Phantom to take photos, I'm sure the local police and others have plenty to get you on

      I'd want the rules to be similar to taking pictures with a hand held camera - i.e. if taking the picture isn't breaking some law, then "taking the picture with a drone" probably shouldn't be illegal either, barring saftey issues...

      Honestly, the stuff like the DJI Phantom seems like it ought to be preferred vs the radio helicopters you can buy from the mall because it seems to be able to help you not crash it.

      --
      Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
    12. Re:Good news or bad news? by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      So what's the current situtation? Is it unregulated, or is commercial drone flying blanket banned?

      The FAA would say that commercial drone flying is blanket banned.

      The only court ruling to date on the matter says otherwise, but I believe it is being appealed.

      The issue is that the FAA didn't go through the rulemaking processes with any of this stuff. They're not actually allowed to just issue press releases and call them regulations.

  3. So we want to be like ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    ... maybe China?

    The US has already learned valuable lessons about early adoptions.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:So we want to be like ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly. This 'we have to be first" shit is for the birds. Look at Gay Marriage. Someone else did it first, if you'd have argued with me, I wouldn't have changed my mind. Later, I became ambivalent, now I just want to stop listening to opponents so I'm for it.

      Do the same for dones, let someone else work out the logistics, then implement something that works.

      USA USA USA :P

    2. Re:So we want to be like ... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      No, we think we have learned. We have not.

      Requiring the population to get on bended knee for permission to do things slows the rate of technological advancement, leading to more deaths in the long run as tech lags more and more, like compound interest building up.

      It's a mathematical triviality to show the FDA and other business-unfriendly practices lead to magnitudes more deaths than these save by preventing some snake oil from getting to market too fast. All savings of lives so far pale to what would be saved if tech was 10 or 20 years ahead of where it is.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    3. Re:So we want to be like ... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      BTW, I recognize the unfortnuate political impossibility of doing this. One dead person in front of a camera for politicians to cry over is worth more than 100,000 lives saved because some heart medicine was not delayed by a few years.

      his is a world of idiots, by idiots, and for the idiots.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    4. Re:So we want to be like ... by jythie · · Score: 1

      You are pretty confident about those made up numbers you've got there. Do you have any models to back that up? If it is mathematically trivial you should. For that matter if you can handle this classic problem with such triviality there is probably a Nobel Prize in your future given how much difficulty some of the best minds of our era have had attacking just this problem.

    5. Re:So we want to be like ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Fuck you.

      I was born and raised on the Gulf Coast of Southeast Texas and I grew up with shitty polluted streams, bayous and rivers and lakes.

      It took a hundred years for us to get to the place that the North Dakota Bakken fields have yet to reach because money is driving those people crazy.

      The same thing happened with Big Tobacco. Remember that prolonged fight?

      It's time to grow up BEFORE we leap.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  4. wrong. article incorrectly assigning blame... by thekm · · Score: 1

    The late-arriving FAA rules hasn't impacted anything. actually, most of the innovators were over seas, and the article is just trying to assign blame when the actual reason is that the innovators for this technology just aren't really in the USA.

    But... there is also plenty of things going on in the USA, just that most of the stuff is trying to be military/gov based. Outside of this, what *actually* has stifled innovation in the USA is the homeland security; I actually know a company in the radio link and telemetry business that was expressly threatened by the DHS that they were not to develop a radio system with telemetry with live video feed.

    Read: this has actually nothing to do with the FAA...

  5. Rome Is Burning by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    While Obama fiddles.

    More government giveaways, mass illegal immigration, wars abroad.

    This is why the sun is setting on the US empire.

    1. Re:Rome Is Burning by AlecC · · Score: 1

      Why blame Obama? This is the FAA, an independent authority. He pushed them as far as I thing a President should go in interfering with what should not be part of his personal fief. Then Congress ordered them to pass regulations, which they have grumpily done.

      --
      Consciousness is an illusion caused by an excess of self consciousness.
    2. Re:Rome Is Burning by ScentCone · · Score: 1

      Why blame Obama? This is the FAA, an independent authority.

      Because that agency's directory is part of his political appointee group, and answer directly to him. They (the FAA) were tasked by law, in congress, to act on this a long time ago, and they (the FAA, as directed by Obama's appointee Huerta) have been deliberately and thoroughly dragging their feet. They're just getting around to looking for comments on part of a body of regulations in this area that the law required them to already have in place, done, finished and usable by commercial operators this year. Considering Obama's willingness to "use his pen and his phone" to issue executive orders that directly contradict the law and the constitution, he should have no problem calling up the guys who reports to him in DoT and FAA and saying, "Obey the law and wrap up these new regulations on time" - because untold billions of dollars and thousands of new jobs and businesses are being held back.

      Then Congress ordered them to pass regulations, which they have grumpily done.

      No, they have NOT done it. They have been piddling around it, and have just started one aspect of it, very late. Meanwhile companies with billions to invest aren't allowed to even hover a quadcopter in their parking lot to test out a new camera or agricultural sensor system because there are no federal permits to be had, only nearly impossible to get waivers that include such nice features as all of the engineers who want to put a 10-pound multirotor 10 feet in the air having to each have actual pilots licenses. That sort of FAA insanity, allowed to fester by the agency's director, who sets policy priorities and who reports to Obama, is a completely self-inflicted wound on the US economy. Inexcusable. Meanwhile, a kid who wants to fly a DJI Phantom for fun to look at the roof of his house can do so because it's a "model," but if he steps 50 feet to the right and does it at his neighbor's request to check their roof gutters for $20, he faces a nice $10,000 fine from the FAA. The Nanny State paradise hard at work making everyone's lives better.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  6. slashdot plufffh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Someone paying Dice to push drones?
    Most drones are toys. They are going to be autonomous aircraft
    with the intent to replace the costs of a piloting staff.
    The FAA is doing just what it should do and has just shot down the idea
    of Amazon flying packages noisily and dangerously around your house.
    The FAA is going slow as it is an emerging technology.
    The assumption of the poster is biased in favor of drones is my interpretation of the headline.

  7. Dithering? I don't think so by cozytom · · Score: 4, Insightful

    different rules for different folks.

    The US is very flexible when it comes to aviation regulations. When you hear on the news "No flight plan was filed..." it is because not flight plan is required for most flights. Aircraft are allowed to fly where they want most of the time (500ft away from objects, unless congested areas). Other countries are more constrained with current manned aircraft systems, so it is easier to control where the manned systems operate, keeping them away from the unmanned systems.

    Now the UAS community wants to mix it up. Flying manned and unmanned aircraft in the same airspace, will be a challenge. Keeping them separated will take special processes and procedures. Quantified right of way rules, operating in see (sense) and avoid situations. Today the only technology that will keep UAS and manned aircraft systems separate are the eyeballs in the pilot/operators heads.

    Then there are all kinds of considerations beyond that. Maintenance is a big one. The batteries in drones are similar to phone batteries. From the factory, they run for a day, but after a year of regular use, they don't have the same capacity, and your typical quad copter has only one mode when the batteries die, and it isn't a glide mode.

    How about coordination with other operators. The big wreck on the freeway needs a EMS helicopter to evacuate a victim, but there are 6 UAS systems (3 TV stations, 2 newspapers and a dude with his for the heck of it) filming the carnage. How do you tell the UAS systems to get out of the way?

    So to make all this work, there are operator training items to consider, maintenance requirements, communications requirements, accident reporting considerations, insurance and stuff most folks haven't thought about. If you think the FAA can knock that out in a weekend, you are fooling yourself. Go have a read of the proposed Part 107 regulations. Lots of things are missing, it is just a start, and it is well thought out.

    1. Re:Dithering? I don't think so by jythie · · Score: 1

      If I had not already commented, I would give you mod you up.

      People tend to forget that the FAA has some pretty heavy tasks on its regulatory plate with a lot of lives (not to mention property) on the line. While drones represent fun and profit, if clear rules for use of airspace are not spelled out a lot of people could (and will) get hurt as usage rises.... and the 'victim pays' mentality of deregulation tends to not go very well.

    2. Re:Dithering? I don't think so by krlynch · · Score: 1

      I don't think the UAS community is complaining about the existence of regulations, or even the need for regulations, per se. The main complaint to the FAA is that they are ready for regulations, ANY regulations, just get on with promulgating them. I'm not a drone guy, but even I recognize that the potential of UAVs is huge for fundamental changes in many fields, but the FAA has been (intentionally?) dragging its feet for _so long_ that the technical initiative is bleeding out of the US into other countries that haven't been moving slower than molasses in winter.

    3. Re:Dithering? I don't think so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The FAA doesn't do anything quickly. In fact, this issue has one of the quickest responses from the FAA that I can remember. It took them 15 years after cell phones became extremely common to allow them on planes. Drones are still relatively new, can effect any aircraft in the sky if used recklessly , and already have a small number of exceptions granted for limited commercial use and new rules proposed for widespread commercial use. This is the FAA at their equivalent of lightspeed.

    4. Re:Dithering? I don't think so by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pilot protectionism.

  8. Typical Silly Valley dronespeak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just because you can, doesn't mean you should. And that hundred billion figure you're waving around is imaginary money.

  9. To avoid muddle don't meddle in the middle by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Because China doesn't meddle in the M.E. nearly as much as we do, they don't have as big of a blowback terrorism problem. We pay a Meddler's Tax, and limiting drones is part of that.

    1. Re:To avoid muddle don't meddle in the middle by jythie · · Score: 2

      Ahm, China has a pretty significant domestic terrorism problem. It also has a rather significant 'robber baron' problem with local business and police forces, which is little more than terrorism in the hands of wealthy people rather than poor.

      "China" meddles heavily with the middle class anyway, given the problems with corruption and pretty much anyone with enough money can use state power to deal with rivals, pesky workers, or land owners who have stuff they want.

    2. Re:To avoid muddle don't meddle in the middle by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      Well, to be fair, the US doesn't get involved in Tibet nearly as much as China does.

      And they do have a Muslim terrorist problem, they just handle it differently. Google "Uyghur Muslim" for more information.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    3. Re:To avoid muddle don't meddle in the middle by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Well, to be fair, the US doesn't get involved in Tibet nearly as much as China does.

      And they do have a Muslim terrorist problem, they just handle it differently. Google "Uyghur Muslim" for more information.

      With Guantanamo inmates being sent to Kazakhstan we can almost see the ground being laid for the scenario which plays out in Diamond Age; radicalisation of the 'Stans, reaction against Chinas heavy handedness toward their Muslim population etc.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    4. Re:To avoid muddle don't meddle in the middle by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Yes, because 100 people can do that.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    5. Re:To avoid muddle don't meddle in the middle by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

      Yes, because 100 people can do that.

      100 people can rouse 100 more and they another 100 more and so on until you have an army that can overthrow an empire.

      At this time the 'Stans are not very radical, heck Kazakhs will do a vodka toast and prayers right after! And Kazakh women don't seem to have any problem marrying infidel men. They are very chill about their Islam. But that could change if the right seeds are sewn. I hope not but I could see it unfolding. I have heard that many young people in the 'Stans are turning against their parents and grandparents because they feel that they don't follow the religion closely enough. That'd be a disturbing trend.

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  10. regulations prohibit, they don't prescribe by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    for example, if someone flies a drone over a private party on a penthouse, there's no law against that, so it's perfectly legal (you might get sued, but that's civil law, not criminal law)

    then enough penthouse owners complain, laws are passed, and now there are regulations against buzzing penthouses with your drone

    so the lack of regulations means you can do anything you want

    i think the function of law, in the usa at least, is you can do anything you want until told not to. rather than you can't do anything unless a law allows you

    so i don't really understand what the problem is, unless it means companies won't invest in a dramatic expensive scheme if down the line someone might pass a law saying they can't do that. but that also doesn't make any sense, just use common sense: can you hurt someone by doing something? then don't do it, a law will be passed against that eventually, and a law should be passed against it if it risks lives or defiles privacy. otherwise, if you can establish a genuine business that generates income, the us government is not going to stand in your way for random reasons. or even if there is some hysteric out there who can put forth a rationale to limit the activity and garners support for that, and they complain somewhere to shut you down, then just lobby for a law establishing guidelines about how to behave in your new business sector, rather than shutting you down

    i don't understand the problem

    maybe what is being referred to here is modifying/ removing certain regulations that might be interpreted as limiting drones, even though they predate drones? for example, height restrictions. but those make perfect sense to me and don't need any modifications: you shouldn't ever be putting a drone into airspace where they can down a helicopter/ plane unless you make clear advance notice according to proper policies

    so again, i don't understand the problem. it seems like a made up controversy

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:regulations prohibit, they don't prescribe by jythie · · Score: 2

      Looks like the FAA already has regulation in place for what you can and can not do with drones. Popping over to their site, while they do not have huge amounts of it, they do seem to have some pretty clear rules already in place. So I can only assume that what the piece is talking about is new regulation that is laxer, opening up commercial use that is currently prohibited.

      Glancing over the current rules, commercial enterprises are currently barred for using drones to move persons or cargo for compensation in general airspace. The license also requires submitting engineering and quality assurance about the system they will be using, so the drones + command system + maintenance routines all have to pass an inspector.

      There is a separate certificate that allows for such transport if it is in controlled/low risk spaces.

      For an immature technology this sounds pretty reasonable. Insurance is not a good solution yet since underwriters still have to get onboard and that only kicks in AFTER someone has been hurt, so a bit of preventative 'prove you are not a public danger' restrictions for commercial entities makes sense. I could see people being unhappy about the 'no passengers or cargo' rule, but that gives some pretty good breathing room for development before higher mass applications start ratcheting up the potential damages.

    2. Re:regulations prohibit, they don't prescribe by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Looks like the FAA already has regulation in place for what you can and can not do with drones. Popping over to their site, while they do not have huge amounts of it, they do seem to have some pretty clear rules already in place.

      As far as I'm aware, the FAA does not have a single regulation in place for what you can and can not do with drones.

      They have lots of webpages full of things they claim are rules, however they are not regulations.

      I'd certainly be interested in anything to the contrary. I'm sure you can find a citation in the Federal Register, where all legally-binding regulations are published.

      The FAA has only taken one company to court over this stuff, and the court actually ruled against them for this reason.

    3. Re:regulations prohibit, they don't prescribe by jythie · · Score: 1

      Here you go.

      https://www.faa.gov/uas/

      3 links at the bottom of the page going over regulation for government, non-government, and hobby usage, including relevent references to existing law.

    4. Re:regulations prohibit, they don't prescribe by Rich0 · · Score: 1

      Here you go.

      https://www.faa.gov/uas/

      3 links at the bottom of the page going over regulation for government, non-government, and hobby usage, including relevent references to existing law.

      And none of those laws pertain to drones. At most they give the FAA authority to regulate them. That means the FAA can create regulations. It doesn't mean that they can put up a webpage and tell people what to do.

      By all means cite a law or regulation you believe says otherwise. However, I want a citation of a specific passage of law, not an FAA website.

      Hint, you can find it all at one of these two sites:
      http://uscode.house.gov/
      http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/EC...

      Every enforceable law has a basis in one of those.

  11. Mandate from the Editor's desk... by txoutback · · Score: 1

    Henceforth using the phrasing "game of _______" will be compulsory when composing the title or subhead of articles pertaining to any subject that rhymes with or shares reasonable consonance to the word "thrones".

  12. Make money selling hunting licenses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Well there were once billions of Passenger Pigeons, the meat in the matter of Pigeon Pie. But they went extinct about 100 years ago. Was it the over hunting? Was it the same fungus that made what's now Orange County California switch from vineyards to citrus crops around 1883? Was the fungus caused by dust from the Krakatoa eruption?
    Or did the minerals in the solar wind cause the fungus, and the plasma driven magnetic jolts stimulate the volcanic activity?
    Some claimed that there weren't high latitude notilucent clouds until Krakatoa, but other writings including some cited by Charles Hoy Fort refuted that. He looked at many off events and doubted the quick judgements of the day. People thought meteors came from volcanoes on Earth or the Moon. Failure to consider the sun as one of the sources persists to this day. He through out all sorts of ideas, some pretty silly, but his writings mention a vast number of sources. Most of those from the 19th century have been scanned and are online. There's something different about atmospheric anomalies from an area when man had nothing in the air to explain them away with. For some fun, check out the texts or audiobooks of Charles Hoyt. Although he's gotten the most modern attention (and a biased wikipedia summary) from the nutty UFO crowd, give the silly notions some slack. Skip whacky conclusions and study the data. After all, in the 1800's some were honestly looking for a planet vulcan with an orbit inside that of Mercury to explain those spots seen on the sun... Meteors and other events were recorded in credible journals, even a president saw rocks from the sky. Consider the possible role of space weather. Could comets be from condensed solar material? The outer part of the sun is similar to the nebula material our planets were made from.

    Will the drones make a good replacement for Passenger Pigeons? Some might like the hunting, but they'll need to go into something other than pie. What can you build from the pieces??

    https://archive.org/details/bo...

    http://umtof.umd.edu/pub/isoto...

    1. Re:Make money selling hunting licenses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a good thing that drones are perfectly secure.
      I guess they're not all bad. I wonder how much science could be done with drones?

      Seeing that solar wind contains a number of elements, it might be interesting to look at the solar images, at 193 angstrom aka 19.3 nm in particular, leading up to sighting of ice crystal halos in our sky visible around the sun or moon. Maybe some atmospheric sampling can be done around that time. There are birds and apple trees with fungal issues in California. They're easily controlled in modern times, but that have been events around solar maximum of locusts. Some eat them and their a good source of iron. Is it possible they thrive when there is trace iron introduced into the atmosphere from the solar wind?

      Besides hydrogen, not listed, there are heavier elements including iron, and oxygen in the solar wind. It COULD produce water. There's more than just those fast electrons and protons that get the attention. Could algae/lichen grow in the atmosphere fed by minerals from the solar wind?

      http://umtof.umd.edu/pub/full_...

      It's a good thing that the radio links to drones are perfectly secure. I suppose take the voltaged-tuned tuner module from an old VCR or television to make the swept-frequency part of a spectrum analyzer. It would be good to see that your drone is using a quiet frequency. Just put the down-converter in front of some receiver guts, or a software defined radio. Sweep the tuning voltage in sync with a scope horizontal scan or graph plot. Old satellite LNBs or LNCs could be modified to sample higher frequencies.

  13. News Flash - EMP Pulse fences delayed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In other news.. Stock for companies offering Flashguns or Xeon Pulse electric fences were severly depressed.

    Pappaazi Lobbyist rejoice! This is a Victory to be taken all the way to the Supreme Court.

  14. Too much of a good thing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The UK is proud to be the first country to issue what amounts to a "drone licence" (BNUC-S)

    Which means if I want to offer drone photography to my clients I need to sit through £1500 worth of training, pay for additional "type rating" per drone flavor, and get a certificate of airworthiness, which depending on the manufacture can cost ~£2000 (again, per drone), pay annually for CAA permission, keep a log book of hours flown, and pay for annual licence renewal and possibly re-sit the training if I'm deemed to have flown too few hours or otherwise deskilled.

    This also comes with a boatload of regulations that prohibit over-flying of pretty much anything other than open countryside or property you own. So what started out as an idea to turn a hobby into a nice little adjunct to the business and differentiate ourselves in the market is now a daunting monolith of regulations, expense, and impractical regulations.

  15. Regulating for the sake of regulating. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    People sit on the hill, there only job is to regulate.

  16. Do I have this right? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    When it's something Obama doesn't want to get involved in, an agency like the FAA is an "independent authority". But when it's something he does want to meddle in, agencies like the EPA or FCC are part of the executive branch.

  17. Disingenuous article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This article is disingenuous. Even if drone flying was outright banned in the US, why couldn't US companies build and fly drones in those other countries? I don't see how rules governing US airspace restrict companies from innovating and participating in foreign markets.

    1. Re:Disingenuous article by hey! · · Score: 1

      To play devil's advocate, it *is* really advantageous for technology developers to have easy physical access and low linguistic barriers with early adopters. So it would unquestionably help the early development of the drone industry if drones were completely unregulated. That doesn't mean they should be unregulated. It just means that regulation has, along with its intended consequences, some undesirable ones as well.

      But that's always true. The US food supply is highly regulated when compared to some place like China, which is notorious for food adulteration. It would no doubt be a great benefit to the US food industry if food safety regulations were removed. People will have to eat even if they can't be sure that their food isn't tainted, so if government's sole responsibility is fostering US industry, then Congress should repeal all food safety laws.

      So it's quite possible that regulating drones might harm the US drone industry, but that doesn't necessarily mean we shouldn't regulate it. We almost certainly should. What doesn't help anyone in the US is taking longer than strictly necessary to come up with a reasonable set of regulations.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    2. Re:Disingenuous article by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      The only thing regulation will do is ensure that the bad guys import foreign drones, or build their own.

      I've already seen reviews on the web from drone owners pissed off that theirs now demands to be connected to the Internet on a regular basis to download a list of places it's not going to fly in future. Do you think they'll be buying a US drone next time?

    3. Re:Disingenuous article by hey! · · Score: 1

      Well, you have a point if a law needs to prevent bad things from happing, but by that standard murder laws don't work.

      Outlawing flight over certain places won't stop some people from doing it, but prosecuting the ones you catch will discourage some of them.

      And it's not like this is 1995; periodically connecting to the Internet to download a dataset isn't exactly a hardship.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    4. Re:Disingenuous article by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Well, you have a point if a law needs to prevent bad things from happing, but by that standard murder laws don't work.

      The whole point of a law is to prevent bad things from happening, or at least discourage them. The bad things people seem to think they can prevent by regulating drones are, say, people flying bombs into your house, or flying drones into airliners. Laws won't stop that, when anyone can make a drone with a 3D printer, a few common electrical and electronic items, and some open source software.

      Outlawing flight over certain places won't stop some people from doing it, but prosecuting the ones you catch will discourage some of them.

      OK. A drone is flying over your house. You shoot it out of the sky. Now what? How are you going to catch whoever was flying it?

      And it's not like this is 1995; periodically connecting to the Internet to download a dataset isn't exactly a hardship.

      Who's going to buy a DRM-ed drone when they can buy or build a non-DRMed drone instead?

    5. Re:Disingenuous article by hey! · · Score: 1

      I don't think you know what "DRM" means.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  18. Sorry but I shed no tears.. by chasm22 · · Score: 1

    Because it is clear that the potential for abuse is so high that the longer we delay the better.

    I say delay, because we're really only talking about the private sector. The government, law enforcement agencies, etc. are flying all the time. I'm sure with what we spend on black budget items that I can be viewed and heard day and night/in and out. Not saying anyone is, just know they can. And I sure as hell don't want private industries, particularly those who engage in advertising, being given the 'keys' to the garage. I can see the ads flying in already. "Dear homeowner. It's the right time of year to paint, mow, and generally just clean up. Recent photos suggest your home...."

  19. What business this that? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    good news for companies operating outside the U.S. and looking to build a business around drones.

    What business is that? I see a drone buzzing my property and I take it out with my Mossberg. Pizza and all.

  20. Consider Ford and Wright brothers by mi · · Score: 2

    If aviation were regulated, when Wright brothers were building plane, would they have even bothered? Having to pay lawyers to file applications with Aviation authorities, would they have been able to afford the plane itself?

    Same question about Ford and other early automobile-makers... We've surrendered important liberties in exchange for illusory relief from, mostly, imaginary problem.

    Yeah, yeah, the same old Libertarian ramblings...

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Consider Ford and Wright brothers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, drones already exist, and I know of about a dozen people personally that are building one while the regulations exist. So, no the regulations that exist aren't preventing anyone from building them.

      There aren't complex regulations on things that don't exist. It's an absurd viewpoint to try to combine historical developments with regulations that would require precognition of the government.

      The FAA exists because the FAA needs to exist in order to have the safety record in aviation the US currently has. And the number of freedoms one still has is enormous compared to how nearly every other country has handled aviation. If you read them and take a few flight lessons so you can apply them, they make a lot more sense, and it's actually surprising how few there are considering the complexity of the airspace.

    2. Re:Consider Ford and Wright brothers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Well, drones already exist

      Drones were used heavily in WWII. They've been around a long time. Hundreds of years even depending on your definition of a drone (even the flying variety).

  21. A new life awaits you in the off-world colonies! by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    Different kind of drone I guess.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?