Slashdot Mirror


UK Police and PRS Shut Down Karaoke Torrent Site

An anonymous reader writes with this news from Torrent Freak, from which he quotes: The City of London's Police Intellectual Property Crime Unit and copyright and royalty group PRS for Music have teamed up for what appears to be a first-of-its-kind action. Arresting a 46-year-old man, this week police shut down one of the Internet's few karaoke-focused BitTorrent trackers. While at some stages wildly popular in the East, to most in the West a night at a karaoke bar is probably more closely associated with too many beers and individuals belting out classics wearing the aural equivalent of beer goggles. The pastime is considered by some as a bit of a joke but karaoke is big business. According to the people behind the web-based Playstation software SingOn, the global karaoke market could be worth as much as $10 billion.

38 of 75 comments (clear)

  1. Thank God Scotland yard by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 3, Insightful

    takes agents off of less important subjects like preventing the next bus bombing to arrest despicable criminals who share unlicensed lyrics!

    1. Re:Thank God Scotland yard by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 5, Informative

      Two, some forms of IP crime are used to fund terrorism.

      Do you really believe that there is a single person who reads this site who is dumb enough to believe that? Even one?

    2. Re:Thank God Scotland yard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      NO IP crime is not used to fund terrorism. That is just complete BS that the MPAA came up with to have politicians say to help get attention. It was also quickly dropped once someone asked for real numbers. There are no huge operations even in china or india where no IP is safe. In some countries like Russia, it is organized but only in the sense everyone pays for protection there. In general it is just some guy making some quick bucks and that is IF he is selling copies on the street. And he likely torrented them now instead of pirating them himself. Almost all piracy is done for free.

    3. Re:Thank God Scotland yard by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 3, Funny

      I paid for the suicide bomb with "Rocky Mountain High" and "My way!"

    4. Re: Thank God Scotland yard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      His name is "anonymous coward". And he posts here a lot.

    5. Re: Thank God Scotland yard by geekmux · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Since you stupid nerds believe your laughable "skills" may avail you against government/corporate surveillance, I'd say yes.

      Funny how that same government is busy trying to hire those nerds and their "laughable" skills.

      You know, because we apparently suck so bad, and government of course must have the most skilled and elite at their disposal. After all, their security rating year after year is A-plus. Top notch work indeed, keeping all those surveillance tactics a secret too. Oh, and so impressive how they've managed to keep our Rights intact as well while doing all of this. I mean, nothing they do would be considered illegal, now would it? Because that would be wrong, and we nerds might get the idea that breaking the law is somehow the right thing to do.

      It doesn't take skills to fight government/corporate surveillance. It merely takes someone in charge with a fucking backbone to call out the lawbreakers, and do something about it to enforce the laws we have today.

    6. Re:Thank God Scotland yard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Two, some forms of IP crime are used to fund terrorism.

      Do you really believe that there is a single person who reads this site who is dumb enough to believe that? Even one?

      Don't be so grumpy, he has a point. You have clearly never heard a drunk Japanes tourist singing Elvis Presley songs at the top of his voice. If you had you'd know that for all intents and purposes Karaoke is indeed a form of terrorism.

    7. Re:Thank God Scotland yard by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 2

      Ye. The threat of yet another karaoke version of "My Way" would definitely drive most normal people to suicide-bombing!

      --
      Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
    8. Re:Thank God Scotland yard by westlake · · Score: 1

      --- can multi-task.

      The geek shares at least one thing with the white-collar criminal, the unshakable belief that the world revolves around him, and that it would take the entire police force to bring him down.

      There is money in Karaoke.

      Karaoke Bar in Trafalgar Square

    9. Re:Thank God Scotland yard by fustakrakich · · Score: 1
      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    10. Re:Thank God Scotland yard by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 1

      That's so much worse than a rickroll
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

    11. Re:Thank God Scotland yard by HiThere · · Score: 1

      "some forms of IP crime are used to fund terrorism" is actually so loosely stated that it may well be true. Think about it for over a half-second. (Mind you saying that "some forms" *are* used that way would require proof.) Note that "some forms" includes running an illegal gambling operation...and the quesiton arises "illegal for who and in which country".

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    12. Re:Thank God Scotland yard by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      Two, some forms of IP crime are used to fund terrorism.

      Well, most forms of money are used to fund terrorism. We should ban money!

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  2. What? by symes · · Score: 2

    $10B?! I find this utterly staggering. Mostly because I cannot imagine karaoke being that popular. Second, because most of this, as far as I know, happens in bars. Who would buy/download karaoke for personal use? What is more, why is this a target for the police when there are plenty of other, and larger, trackers out there? Nothing in this story makes any sense.

    1. Re:What? by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 2

      They're no doubt counting every drink and whore paid for in every karaoke providing bar or restaurant in Asia...
      Of course those bars probably don't do Karaoke all day, but they sell drinks or food all day. In other words the number is bullshit.

      You know, that's how you always excuse draconian laws, by lying.

    2. Re:What? by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      You have to understand that the licensing for these kind of performances is big because they hit you twice. First, if you were to purchase an officially licensed karaoke track or a normal song track for DJing between singers, you will be paying between $3 and $4 US for each new song. But then you also need a public performance license on top of that. So when they figure the 10 billion value, they are probably thinking the licensing costs and increased unit costs. Technically, you aren't supposed to be able to go to walmart and pick a CD out of the bargain bin and play it at a bar or allow people to sing over top of it. You need to pay more because they have so much money, it gets lonesome and needs more to keep it company or something.

      I'm with ya on actually experiencing it. I don't know how many people who couldn't carry a tune if you put it in a basket and duct taped it to their hand, have ruined my night because the karaoke decided to go longer then scheduled and I showed up a bit early. But every once in a while, you do find a gem in the mix who does a decent enough job or even outshines the original version of the song. In my neck of the woods, that is few and far in between and generally relies in me drinking a 6 pack before I notice them.

    3. Re:What? by loufoque · · Score: 1

      In the West, I would think that most of karaoke happens at home or private parties.
      Just like there are games where you play the guitar (Guitar Hero) there are karaoke games where you sing as well (Lips, SingStar).and some that include both. Those games alone sold about 50 million units (3 billion dollars), mostly in Europe.

      Then there are a lot of people who just get stuff off of youtube and use a normal mic.

    4. Re:What? by donaldm · · Score: 1

      I cannot imagine karaoke being that popular.

      Rather than debate this if you have and Android phone or Apple iPhone for that matter go to to the App Store and search for "karaoke", you will find that there are quite a few apps (I counted 250 on Android) dealing with that. Now just for fun why don't you "tap" on an app (don't install unless you want too) and see how many downloads of that app has had.

      Basically you are going to see 100's of thousands and even millions of downloads per app so just because you can't see karaoke being that popular I think 10's of millions would disagree with you.

      Who would buy/download karaoke for personal use?

      If you like watching Japanese Anime you may find the introduction and ending song if there is one set-up with "karaoke" and people do buy the dubbed/subbed anime.

      why is this a target for the police when there are plenty of other, and larger, trackers out there? Nothing in this story makes any sense.

      It looks like the big corporations want their pound of flesh and they don't care were they get it.

      On a side note, do you know it is actually illegal to sing "Happy Birthday" in a public place without paying royalties.to the copyright owners. Now IMHO that makes no sense but the law is definitely on their side.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    5. Re:What? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      The numbers don't seem all that unrealistic considering karaoke's incredibly popularity in Asian countries (if nothing else, watch the little Japanese girls singing in the video, as it's really adorable).. The typical commercial establishments called "karaoke boxes" feature many tiny rooms suitable for small numbers of guests to sing and eat drinks and snacks in private. These aren't normal bars that do karaoke part-time like western establishments - they're exclusively designed for karaoke, and are suitable for all ages, from children to middle-aged salarymen. These establishments do karaoke all day, and nothing else. A huge number of Japanese families apparently have a karaoke machine at home as well. I'm going to bet the Asian market accounts for at least 90% of the global karaoke market, easy.

      The more you know...

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    6. Re:What? by NickFortune · · Score: 2

      $10B?! I find this utterly staggering.

      The weasel words here are "could be worth as much as..."

      So, by the same token, my cat's old scratching post could be worth as much as 27 trillion dollars on the open market. I mean the probabilities are strongly weighted towards zero, but with the right buyer it could be worth that. I just need to find an insane trillionaire is all :)

      Add to that the fact this is all just someone's opinion ("according to the people behind the web-based Playstation software SingOn") and basically it's a non-statement containing zero information.

      --
      Don't let THEM immanentize the Eschaton!
    7. Re: What? by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Unhhh..... that comment about "Happy Birthday" is US law, and applies in the US. (And the copyright should be ruled invalid as the song predated the copyright issuance date by considerable, and the putative author of the song had nothing to do with it's creation, though possibly with its orchestration. (It was already being sung to that approximate tune, but I don't know whether it was to the exact same tune...probably, considering the number of singers, but just *try* to prove it.)

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    8. Re:What? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Who would buy/download karaoke for personal use?

      Singstar sold 16million copies.

  3. Rte:Thank God Scotland yard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    City of London Police are not Scotland Yard. They are a small police force covering the Square Mile (City of London) and specialised in investigating financial crime. They are a completely separate force from the Metropolitan Police, based at Scotland Yard in Westminster, and covering the rest of metropolitan London.

    1. Re:Rte:Thank God Scotland yard by AmiMoJo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      City of London Police are basically a private, corporate police unit. The City of London is strange place, where corporations have the majority of votes in elections. The police basically work for corporate interests, but have all the powers of a normal police force. They abuse this by putting pressure on people to stop doing perfectly legal, lawful activities that the corporations dislike.

      It's disgusting and an affront to democracy and justice.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:Rte:Thank God Scotland yard by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      The submissive, obedient public is much more disgusting.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  4. Really? by nospam007 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What's next? Some razzias to throw grannies in jail, who 'illegally' use Disney figures on their embroidering machines for the little ones?

    1. Re:Really? by Mashiki · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Don't give them ideas.

      Fun story, I knew a guy who lived through the great depression. He and his wife made ends meet, by making Disney character windmills and selling them on the street corner. These days, they'd likely be tossed in prison and have a fine.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    2. Re:Really? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah, you can't go around building jails and not fill them up.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  5. Justice by Wowsers · · Score: 2

    The police going after easy targets, while the city police protect criminal banks who have done well documented money laundering for Mexican drug cartels by the city's own banks. If you do crime, do it big, or give police backhanders to look the other way.

    --
    Take Nobody's Word For It.
  6. Arrested him for WHAT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    “The unlicensed BitTorrent site directed users to a catalogue of tens of thousands of copyrighted music files, in particular the latest chart music and karaoke hits,” PIPCU said in a statement.

    Directing users is not the same as infringing copyright.

    “The public needs to be aware that by accessing sites like this, they are putting money directly in the hands of criminals, which often then funds other serious organized crime, as well as putting their own financial and personal details at risk of being compromised and used for other fraudulent scams,” PIPCU chief Detective Chief Inspector Danny Medlycott said in a statement.

    In other words, "this offense is so minor that we need to THROW IN A BUNCH OF MALICIOUS DEMONIZING ALLEGATIONS". They have put no evidence that the site infringed copyright ITSELF, as opposed to its users, or that they are in anyway involved in 'fraudulent scams'.

    It's worth examining the Anton Vickerman story. Anton ran a torrent list site for TV programs, he was prosecuted in a very dodgy private case, where the judge heard evidence without the prosecution present. The judge convinced the jury that Vickerman had uploaded the files himself, so the jury extrapolated that to the full site. It's the big problem here, Vickerman could not offer defense against claims and evidence he is not allowed to know.

    http://www.jaduncan.com/2012/08/since-surfthechannel.html#more

    "On 18 August 2010, a few weeks before the hearing in front of HHJ Evans to hear our dismissal application we were put on notice by FACT Ltd that they intended to request a “Public Interest Immunity” hearing in front of HHJ Evans. A PII hearing is usually used in cases where the CPS need to protect the identity of a covert source such as a super grass or protect covert secret methods that have been used in the obtaining of evidence in a case. I and my legal team did not think it was anything like this, we believed it was simply an attempt to drip poison into HHJ Evans ear about myself without any balance from my side. Because that is the thing about PII hearings, it is the prosecutor and the judge in the room only. No member of the defense team or the defendant is allowed to be present so they never know what is said or what the hearing is about. We were extremely concerned at this attempt by FACT Ltd prosecutors David Groome and his sidekick Ari Alibhai to manipulate Judge Evans. We had already been a victim of Groomes dirty tactics when he passed the “criminal case summary” to the appeal judges without notifying us and I believed this was exactly the same type of trick designed to prejudice myself and my case. We already knew that Groome and Alibhai were dishonest as they had allowed the appeal judges to be misled and lied to about the existence of the CPS letter in the civil trial so we werent about to let the same underhand maneuvering take place again. We lodged a formal complaint to HHJ Evans and asked that he allow a Special Advocate to sit in on the PII hearing in the interest of fairness. It is normal procedure for an independent barrister to sit in on a PII hearing if the Judge wants and their job is just to monitor the hearing to make sure that nothing untoward happens to prejudice the defense. Given the backdrop of accusations by both sides about each other we felt sure that for “justice to be seen to be done” HHJ Evans would order that a Special Advocate be present. He did not; the PII hearing took place on 6 September 2010 between the judge and prosecution only."

    Right there is a problem, evidence was told to a judge that Vickerman could not defend against because he wasn't allowed to hear it, and the rest of the hearing really has the judge aggressively negative against Vickerman, and even made a false assumption in his guidance, that linking to infringement is infringement.

    For a COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT CASE secret hearings are extreme, but this is a basic principle of justice, that the accused be able to face their accusers. Once that took place the rest of the case is a complete farce. They could have paraded any false evidence in front of a judge, and there would be no person to counter it or even check its validity.

    1. Re:Arrested him for WHAT? by TheReaperD · · Score: 2

      What would your arguments be from a songmaker perspective?

      Time to join the dinosaurs and buggy whip makers.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    2. Re:Arrested him for WHAT? by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      You dare challenge us, you'll only be a stain on someone's shoe.

      Yay, internet bravery! Looks like the best part of you wound up as a stain on someone's mattress.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Arrested him for WHAT? by TheReaperD · · Score: 1

      Except that the same type of big pocket media companies have tried this exact tactic on more than one occasion and each time, the companies that dug their heels in and refused to change with the times were crushed no matter how much money or influence they threw at the problem. All they can do is slow their demise in exchange for guaranteeing their demise.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    4. Re:Arrested him for WHAT? by terbeaux · · Score: 1

      without the prosecution present

      Did you mean without the defense present?

  7. The funny thing is... by Shoten · · Score: 1

    The site was really just the same software/format as The Pirate Bay, only it didn't use any text...

    --

    For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
  8. "Police"? by CanEHdian · · Score: 3, Informative

    TF keeps calling them "police" so they keep answering their inquiries. We're talking here about "The City of London Corporation, officially and legally the Mayor and Commonalty and Citizens of the City of London, is the municipal governing body of the City of London" (source: Wikipedia). Part of this is PIPCU, which is funded with taxpayer money.

    "Since at least 2011 the BPI (= the british branch/version of RIAA, C.) had built close ties with the City of London Police's National Fraud Intelligence Bureau as well as advertising agencies to remove payment channels from pirate sites. The dedicated unit itself was first announced in December 2012 by Vince Cable MP. It was funded by £2.5m over two years of public money via the Intellectual Property Office and became operational in September 2013. In April 2014 Mike Weatherley, the Prime Minister's Intellectual Property Advisor called on the Prime Minister to commit to the permanent funding of the unit to extend its existence beyond 2015. In October 2014 additional funding was revived to operate until 2017."

    Don't be as dependent on scraps like TF and stop referring to them as "City of London Police" which might to the ininitiated be the metropolitan police of the British capital, while in fact it's some corporate task force that abuses the old City situation to give themselves public powers. Think of them like a Omni Consumer Products enforcement group, by Big Business, for Big Business, and paid for by the taxpayer. Can it get any better?

    --
    When the copyright term is "forever minus a day", live every day like it's the last.
    1. Re:"Police"? by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      "in fact it's some corporate task force that abuses the old City situation to give themselves public powers."

      While the specifics of the City of London Corporation may be unique, the fact that the city government is an incorporated legal body makes it just like any other chartered city government since chartered cities were invented.

  9. ASCAP by tepples · · Score: 1

    However PRS are the worst for throwing their bullshit around. They actually have zero right to be collecting royalty payments - they just assumed this role.

    As I understand it, PRS for Music is like BMI or ASCAP in that it has whatever rights are delegated to it by songwriters through the songwriters' respective music publishers.