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Deploying Solar In California's Urban Areas Could Meet Demand Five Times Over

Lucas123 writes: About 8% of terrestrial surfaces in California have been developed, ranging from cities and buildings to park spaces. If photovoltaic panels, along with concentrating solar power, were more effectively deployed in and around those areas, it could meet between three and five times what California currently uses for electricity, according to a new study. The study from the Carnegie Institution for Science, found that using small- and utility-scale solar power in and around developed areas could generate up to 15,000 terawatt-hours of energy a year using photovoltaic technology, and 6,000 TWh of energy a year using concentrating solar power technology. "Integrating solar facilities into the urban and suburban environment causes the least amount of land-cover change and the lowest environmental impact," post-doctoral environmental earth scientist Rebecca Hernandez said.

11 of 437 comments (clear)

  1. Space for solar hasn't been much of a concern by Firethorn · · Score: 5, Interesting

    The main concern for solar hasn't been one of the space necessary for a long time. Partially covering something like half the south-facing side of a roof has been sufficient to cover a home's needs for quite some time. A few more percent in panel efficiency would only decrease the coverage necessary.

    Like for most things, the real killer has been cost. Smaller footprints are good, reduces cost and increases flexibility(you don't NEED to take down that one tree...). Today it's getting to the point that we need to work to make installs cheaper, including the inverter, which of the items that can fail, currently have the lowest warranty period as well. If you 'plan' on replacing it once it's out of warranty, you'll go through 3 inverters per replacement of the solar panels. Yes, both actually last longer than that, but it's an expense to be wary of.

    Personally, in order to manage cost I like to propose 'dual use' applications - solar panels on a roof can act as a solar barrier and reduce the heat load in the house, reducing electricity needs for HVAC even as it supplies electricity for the very same HVAC. My latest 'idea', which is far from unique, is the 'solar car park'. We know people like parking in the shade, and solar panels are typically* strong enough that you can use them directly for roofing material as long as your roof is either small enough or you don't need it to be absolutely tight(like for a house). A few dribbles won't hurt a car but the shade certainly would be nice.

    So you mount the panels up over your parking lot(or driveway), and you come out to a shaded, and therefore not blazing hot, car. You park at the store and again, don't come back to a blazing hot car. As a bonus, it'll even extend the life of your paint job and interior, as well as help protect any sensitive electronics that don't like baking in a hot vehicle.

    *Some are, some aren't, but it's easy enough to specify/check.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
    1. Re:Space for solar hasn't been much of a concern by itzly · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I thought solar was supposed to allow us to use less fossil fuels like natural gas and not more. Any gains by using solar may be wiped out by burning more natural gas to make up for storage problems. I don't think that is a good plan.

      These problems are not going to get solved by whining about them. Instead, we should just build the solar panels. At first, storage won't be a problem, because we can use the peak energy for A/C. And when solar power actually grows to a point where storage is a problem, it will be fixed, because there will be money to be made in energy storage.

    2. Re:Space for solar hasn't been much of a concern by Firethorn · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm sorry that I often forget my disclaimers like 'excluding outliers', 'average situation only', etc...

      As nospam mentioned, there might be a problem with your house. Now, I'm no expert, but I'd need some more information to do an assessment:
      square footage of the south facing side of your house
      annual kwh usage

      For example, I'm an outlier. I'd have to completely cover my south-facing roof with solar panels to match my usage, but I live in Alaska.

      Some things that might be 'nice to know':
      Have you ever had an energy audit of your house done? Do you know what the R-Value of your walls/roof is? What's the SEER for your air conditioner? If you're using more than 3X the power that could be generated by solar for your roof, you may be better served by installing more insulation, replacing a marginal HVAC system with a more efficient one, etc...

      Heck, I pointed out that solar panels can help cut HVAC requirements by their mere presence - they're not normally installed directly on the roof, so that few inches acts as insulation(and can even create a heat chimney effect to keep things even cooler), preventing direct sunlight from heating the roof extra, increasing cooling needs.

      --
      I don't read AC A human right
    3. Re:Space for solar hasn't been much of a concern by jklovanc · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Solar is already causing a problem. It is called the duck graph. Basically as solar rapidly drops off at sunset conventional is having trouble ramping up to meet demand. There is too many incentives for solar production and not enough for storage and that needs to be changed now.

    4. Re:Space for solar hasn't been much of a concern by sjames · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If only we had a way to predict when the sun would set...

  2. Re:Night by mjgday · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Storage is today's big issue in the energy world.

    Having said that, the cost of a storage system used to double the cost of a 3-4 kW (peak) PV system about 5 years ago. I expect since then the prices of PV has fallen more sharply than the price of lead acid batteries, meaning it may well now triple, but still it's hardly "very expensive".

    It is cheaper, and more optimal electrically, to sell the power to the grid and then buy it back from another generator when you aren't generating. Of course that doesn't work if everyone is using the same kind of generators and there's no storage, which is why we need storage. As many storage technologies suffer from efficiencies of scale it probably makes more sense to at least partially centralise the storage.

    What probably needs to happen (it certainly needs to happen in .uk) is the energy market needs to be restructured so as to make storing energy profitable, then companies will set up to do it.

    --
    foo
  3. Re: Without workers power by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Calling any party/politcian from the US as socialist when they don't even have true single payer universal healthcare is just laughable. Our right wing parties in Europe are more socialist than Obama or the Democratic party of the USA.

  4. Re:A quick calculation of the cost... by itzly · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm sure you can get a discount on a $1e12 order.

  5. Re:solar and wind are just proxies for natural gas by catmistake · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nuclear power is the answer. I know someone is going to point out the nuclear waste that comes from nuclear power now.

    Yes, waste is a concern. But the real concern is the economics of nuclear energy has never made any sense. It is outrageously expensive, and never has a nuclear power plant been able to have been built without massive capital from governments. An individual can install wind and solar and other alternative energies on a local scale. There are solvable problems involved. Eventually, the problem of energy storage will be solved. But the problem with nuclear power, which is that is the most expensive form of energy ever conceived, will never be solved. Nuclear energy proponents ignore this, but it is the only thing standing in the way of your dream of nuclear power being the solution to the world's energy needs: its just too damn expensive. Money wins every time.

  6. You need hydro-electric pump storage! by Terje+Mathisen · · Score: 4, Informative

    One of the reasons Denmark can run on wind (currently 39% of their total) and solar power (500 MW total from 90,000 private installations according to wikipedia) is that we have installed multiple DC transmissions lines between Denmark and Norway, and hydro-electric power is by far the most responsive to changing load.

    On the west coast mountains we have storage dams where surplus power can be used to pump up water during periods of surplus production and then let down again when Denmark, Sweden or countries further south need some extra power.

    From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P... you can see that this is _by far_ the largest grid energy storage form, accounting for more than 99% of the total capacity worldwide.

    The total efficiency (70%-87%) is quite good, which means that this is not just a good idea but can pay for itself anywhere the difference between peak and off-peak energy costs are larger than the ~20% that is lost to pump friction.

    Terje

    --
    "almost all programming can be viewed as an exercise in caching"
  7. Re:Night by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It would also require more rare earth elements than exist in the earth's crust.
    That is complete nonsense.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R...

    Raw earth elements belong to the most abundant elements on earth. Only the name is strange due to historical reasons when they got "discovered".

    like flywheel storage ..., and still require significant amounts of rare earth elements to produce
    No they don't. You only need a flywheel and a generator. If you sacrifice 1% efficiency there are no raw earth elements involved at all. (*facepalm*)

    Molten salt storage requires vast resources as well.
    What a nonsense :D

    None of these can compete with even first generation nuclear power
    Ofc it can't. You compare storage technology with power production. That is like comparing biodiesel with a motorbike. Wow, the motorbike is not even using diesle. So now you compare the motorbike with gasoline ... oki. Nevertheless the gasoline/diesel is the storage medium. And the bike the user/producer of energy.

    Your comparison makes no sense, especially as nuclear power is the most expensive power to produce, since ever actually. It never was cheaper than coal, water or anything else.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.