Slashdot Mirror


Speaking a Second Language May Change How You See the World

sciencehabit writes: Where did the thief go? You might get a more accurate answer if you ask the question in German. How did she get away? Now you might want to switch to English. Speakers of the two languages put different emphasis on actions and their consequences, influencing the way they think about the world, according to a new study (abstract). The work also finds that bilinguals may get the best of both worldviews, as their thinking can be more flexible.

19 of 274 comments (clear)

  1. Ever hear of "sociology"? by msobkow · · Score: 4, Informative

    There's an entire branch of research into the subject of language, culture, and perspective. You might want to do some reading before crowing that you discovered something "new".

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:Ever hear of "sociology"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah. This is just a restatement of the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. Welcome to the early twentieth century.

  2. "Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt... by schmidt349 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... weiß nichts von seiner eigenen."

    That's a saying in German attributed to Goethe, which means, "he who can't speak another language knows nothing about his own."

    And another proverb, either Czech or Tamil in origin (or even from the mouth of Charlemagne): "Mit jeder neu erlernten Sprache erwirbst du eine neue Seele" -- "every time you learn a new language, you get another soul."

    1. Re:"Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt... by myid · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Regarding your Goethe quote: I'm an American native-English speaker. Studying German taught me how to use the word "whose", as in "the man whose car was hit". I didn't know how to say that properly in English until I learned how to say it in German. (My textbook had examples in English and in German.)

    2. Re:"Wer fremde Sprachen nicht kennt... by snowgirl · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have advanced learning in German as an American native-English speaker.

      I now use the subjunctive properly, and a host of other things. My English is perhaps now so proper, that I speak it "better" than my parents...

      --
      WARNING! This girl exceeds the MAXIMUM SAFE standards established by the FDA for BRATTINESS
  3. Not sure about that by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 4, Informative

    Speakers of the two languages put different emphasis on actions and their consequences

    The important part here is how it is understood. A native English speaker who is also fluent in German will catch intonation and emphasis differences, and may conclude that the Germans don't express the same way an American does. But how a native German understands the same phrase will remain a complete (unknown) mistery for the native English speaker. Often the problem is the translation - even sometimes in professional translations, in books for instance. The difficulty being to find out how "sticky" must be the translation of a phrase from A to B. Basically - and very few if any people can - an interpreter has to go deep into his/her feelings to transcribe not a text, but a raw feeling.

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
    1. Re:Not sure about that by bickerdyke · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's true for the other way round, too. Coming from an area with many Schlösser und Burgen, calling all of them simply "castle" feels wrong.

      And for every english student struggling with the 'th', there is a german learner trying to pronounce the 'ch'. :-)

      --
      bickerdyke
    2. Re:Not sure about that by houghi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Speaking a language and understanding have different levels. I once was told these were the levels:
      1) Using bad words and ordering beer (and food)
      2) Explaining who you are and what you do. Simple conversation.
      3) Reading a newspaper (as they are written for everybody to read)
      4) Having a complex conversation
      5) Understanding the language jokes

      Obviously this is not set in stone, but I think it is a good indication on where you are.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Not sure about that by dunkelfalke · · Score: 4, Informative

      Well, you can try this

      der Schloss = castle
      die Burg = fortress
      die Festung = stronghold

      English seldom uses this distinction, but it is still there. A stronghold is a fort that is not used as living quarters, while a fortress is also used for living. A castle is a fortress that is also a residence of a noble, not necessarily fortified in later days, being more of a palace really (e.g. Schloss Neuschwanstein). This differentiation is modern language, however. In the older German they just used one word for all of these, but, depending on the century, a different one. Therefore "Veste Coburg", for example, that uses both "Burg" and "Festung".

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  4. I think computer scientists already knew this... by WarJolt · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The language shapes how you think about a problem.

  5. Vice Versa by Sivaraj · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Can we turn this around and say, "ability to think in multiple perspectives is important to successfully learn a new language"? There are many for whom learning a second langauge is very difficult while some others pickup a new one easily. Would this theory explain that problem?

    1. Re:Vice Versa by houghi · · Score: 5, Informative

      I believe learning a language is more about attitude and need. When I see English speakers in Belgium, they have huge problems learning Dutch or French, because everybody speaks better English they they do Dutch (or French).

      While when I was in Buenes Aires several years ago, as nobody spoke any English, I was forced to learn Spanish very quickly. In 4 weeks I was able to speak enough Spanish to order food and being able to explain where I lived and other vary basic conversations.

      I have seen this with others as well.

      And then there are the English speakers who do not WANT to learn any other language.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  6. Re:Seriously? by mc6809e · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This isn't about studying different cultures. It's about the connection between the construction of a language and the effects of that construction on the mind.

    Different languages with their different constructions appear to alter and guide certain aspects of thought.

  7. Re:Seriously? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Different languages with their different constructions appear to alter and guide certain aspects of thought.

    That is not a new idea. I first heard "learn a language, gain a new soul" decades ago. I know four languages (English, Mandarin, Spanish, Japanese) with varying degrees of fluency, and it is very clear that different languages don't just have different ways of expressing things, but different world views. When people first learn a second language, they are often surprised that there are certain concepts that just can't be translated, because they don't exist in the other language's world view. Mandarin doesn't even have words for "yes" and "no". Japanese does have a "yes" and "no", but they really don't mean the same thing as the English words. Bill Clinton famously questioned what the meaning of "is" is. But that word really does have many nuances that don't exist in many other languages, and vice versa. Some Native American languages have two versions of "is" depending on whether you know what "is" by first hand knowledge, or whether you heard it from someone else. The lack of such a distinction in English is one of the many things that makes our language famously capable of vagueness and ambiguity. Perfect for politicians, and journalists.

  8. Only if you trnaslate in your head by aepervius · · Score: 5, Insightful

    There are two ways to speak a non native language : translate every sentence in your head and run into the problem you indicate, or master it without constantly translating and your way of thinking will be sooner or later the same as a native. Once you start dreaming, thinking, in the other language, chance is that you are actually using very similar or even identical structure as the locals. Language is no hexenkunst.

    --
    C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
  9. Re:Seriously? by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Right, but I wouldn't say that every language has its own "world view", I would rather name it character, personality or way of thinking. Many stereotypical attributes of a people are reflected in the language. German is precise, sounds harsh (to non Germans) and is not very open to humorous wordplay. Spanish sounds lighthearted and its easy to make jokes and talk funny using the language, English is full of ambiguity but concise and practical...
    I'm positive that language determines how we think and therefore also who we are. More than that, to a certain degree it determines what we can even think about.

    This is one of the main points in 1984 and the scariest thing in the book; the autocratic government trying to completely eliminate dissent and control the lives of people by destroying words and manipulating language to limit how people are able to think.

  10. luxembourg: 3 languages and more by Gunstick · · Score: 5, Interesting

    In Luxembourg, from the first years in school on, we learn french and german.
    And additionally learn the local Luxembourgish.
    Later, english is added.

    So everybody is trilingual, but often from parents there are 1 or 2 other languages added.
    And learning 5 languages as a kid is in fact no problem at all.

    --
    Atari rules... ermm... ruled.
  11. Re:Seriously? by ZeroExistenZ · · Score: 4, Interesting
    I garantee you that in Europe any educated person will be fluent in both their native language and English

    It depends on the country though. French have a sense of global importance as the English or the Spanish. They reason "I can be understood at the largest parts of the world and don't NEED another language." and downvalue "languages which will dissapear anyhow" (literally out of the mouth of a French speaking Belgian.). I suspect this is rooted in the settlers past and colonies.

    As a result, foreign media is dubbed and foreign words are translated. (Germans tend to do the same but are in my experience more linguistical open - that's why you have much "French rap music" but not really "German rap music". Come to think of it, there isn't much German music without them dressing up silly and getting drunk together.).

    There is a shift in the younger generation, which is open for "English media and influences", but French natives are generally poor with English. In meetings there is often the agreement to "communicate in English" but it soon shifts to French as it's too slow and cumbersome or not everyone understands English well enough. While other nationalities have less problem understanding French. In meetings with Indians, Germans, Dutch, Luxembourg English is no problem. With soutern countries (Italy, Spain, Portugal, ...) English is.. "a sort of reinterpretation"

    The acceptance of foreign media seems an indicator for English languistic skill as children get "emersion" at a very young age while they get used reading subtitles. And at a later age find information online with a lower barrier to grasp these concepts. Also technical fields often have a closer relationship to English terminology which give a higher comprehension level.

    --
    I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
  12. Re:Seriously? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    > that's why you have much "French rap music" but not really "German rap music"

    German rap music is HUGE right now (but inside Germany, of course). Most of it is wannabe Gangsta-Rap (https://www.youtube.com/user/aggroTV) featuring artists with names like "Haftbefehl" but there's also Hipster stuff (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjX12Yw5hwc). Rappers from both subgenres like to wear funny masks (Sido, Cro)