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Uber Shut Down In Multiple Countries Following Raids
wired_parrot (768394) writes "Worldwide raids were carried out against Uber offices in Germany, France and South Korea. In Germany, the raids followed a court ruling banning Uber from operating without a license. In Paris, raids followed an investigation into deceptive practices. And in South Korea, 30 people, including Uber's CEO, were charged with running an illegal taxi service."
... a fine using Bitcoin and stuff.
It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
I know, licensing has a bit of a reason behind it, but still, I can't help feel that its the established players who want to kill any newcoming competition. that - in itself - really annoys me.
I wonder if this will backfire and people will want to support the underdog.
--
"It is now safe to switch off your computer."
It won't, that's correct.
ignoring the law is not a good business strategy because you go to jail or at least court. they should have done what other companies do and buy some people in the government and have the laws changed in their favor.
on second thought, maybe it's for the best.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
Just know that Germany is extremely protectionist on many fronts. For instance, every household has to pay over 20 euro each month to the VERY WELL OFF TV companies whether you want to or not. Or if you have a painting and auction it off, a portion goes off to the artists and their families for several generations, (often to collection agencies since said artist is dead), regardless of how you bought the painting/artwork and the arrangement at time of purchase. Let's not mention how their RIAA (GEMA) was so greedy, they couldn't make a deal with youtube for videos. You can't even buy common off-the-shelf drugs that would cost $20 for a couple hundred in the US, but rather have to pay a pharmacy like a buck a piece for there.
It's quite hostile to the free market on multiple fronts.
http://www.ndtv.com/delhi-news...
This driver has now confessed to having raped more women earlier, using the same modus operandi .
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
shut them down be for they become the next yellow cab
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t...
on the one hand Uber screws their drivers marginally less than real taxi cab companies; OTOH there's evidence they're gonna start acting just as bad, and I really don't like how they're getting away with calling what are very, very obviously employees "Independent Contractors". I hired a contractor to fix my fence. The fence has a 10 year warrantee and will likely stand for 20 before it has to be replaced again. Uber needs drivers every day or they go out of business. If Uber can call their drivers "contractors" what's to prevent everyone using that loophole to ignore minimum wage law?
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
I guess everyone's getting bored with the war on drugs, so now they're looking for a new menace to protect us from.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Except Uber is just exploiting people to enrich themselves.
Ubers plan for for entering a new markets has always been to start the service under the radar without asking permission. Once the have reached a certain number of users, a critical mass of sorts, they start advertising the service heavily relying on the user base to make a big stink if the regulatory agencies or courts try to stop them. In South Korea they went as far as offering free rides to everyone in order to keep in line with regulations but mostly to influence public opinion. The powers that be were clearly not amused.
To me it doesn't even matter if Uber is exploitive or not. They simply provide a vastly better service than any taxi I have ever used.
To that extent, they are not "just" anything - they are also helping real people, people that will now have the same problems they did before uber in areas where competition with the driving monopolies are not allowed.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The Netherlands regulates taxis in order to maintain various standards of safety and fair competition. But Uber is an app that doesn't play by the rules. So they've been busted, several times.
Initially the drivers received warnings.
Then the fines started to increase, which Uber Corp. seems happy to pay. In January the penalties were 10,000 euros, and unlicensed drivers risk a criminal record:
(in Dutch) http://www.nu.nl/internet/3978...
(English, machine translation)
Did that stop Uber, even when they were warned the next time, and subsequent violations would become 100,000 euros. No way!
(in Dutch) http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2015/...
(English, machine translation)
Uber defends itself by saying that innovation is faster than legislation. Uber says The Taxi Act of 2000, is outdated, and just keeps on truckin'
You can't be ahead of the curve, if you're stuck in a loop.
I think they call that "commerce". The drivers are probably exploiting Uber for their own enrichment.
The establishment has to answer the many complaints from the taxi unions despite (in France at least) one of the crapiest service in the world. Less working taxi leads to unemployment. And, to be fair, the requirements to become a taxi - would such requirement be relevant in the first place - are extremely heavy. All of a sudden Uber blooms everywhere and offers a service which is, actually, illegal in many countries. I'm glad Uber comes to balance the taxis monopoly, but all the aggressive and legal reactions against it were predictable.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
And that quote is why I think he is a total moron.
you mean calling laws regulations "outdated" doesn't work when you break laws that have been on the books for decades?
the law is the law until it is changed
And your comment is why I think you're total moron.
So are taxi companies. And most of the drivers get paid better on Uber; much better! So they're exploiting people less than the big players, giving drivers more money, people cheaper fairs and they still turn enough money to keep them going.
The laws in place were designed to make sure taxi drivers got a fare shake and earned a decent amount of money; not to get pushed out by cheap-fly-by-night shit shops. But here we see the only people benefiting from this are the established taxi regimes.
I know, licensing has a bit of a reason behind it, but still, I can't help feel that its the established players who want to kill any newcoming competition. that - in itself - really annoys me.
I wonder if this will backfire and people will want to support the underdog.
Maybe that's the reason why the laws weren't changed, but it's not the reason Uber is getting shut down.
They based their business model on breaking the law. When they were told they were breaking the law they ignored the authorities and kept on breaking it.
There are times when you break laws as a matter of civil disobedience, and there are other times when you break them because they're really hard to follow. This was neither, this was Uber saying they know they're breaking the law with every transaction they make and they're going to keep on breaking the law until you legalize what they're doing because they're make more money that way. That's not how things work, if you pretend the law doesn't exist then you experience the consequences.
I stole this Sig
I can't help feel that its the established players who want to kill any newcoming competition. that - in itself - really annoys me.
Is it that they want to kill competition or is it that they want Uber to abide by the same laws and regulations and pay the same taxes and fees that they do? Is it so annoying that Uber is being punished for not abiding by the laws? If you feel so, then you are an anarchist and opposed to a society based on law. Because only an anarchist sees no value in the rule of law. These laws aren't put into place to restrict competition, as much as they are for consumer protection. How many news articles have you read about Uber drivers raping or otherwise assaulting riders -- I can think of several off hand in the last year. How many news articles have you read about legally licensed cabbies doing the same?
Does anyone here feel bad for the upper management of Uber or its CEO? Maybe the drivers and users should be felt for but I think we can agree that this is Karma for the people who run it.
Germany, Netherlands, France, Korea, all countries upset at the NSA mass surveillance of their citizens, and they all bust Uber which itself has been caught doing surveillance ware, its 'God' view.
http://motherboard.vice.com/read/ubers-god-view-was-once-available-to-drivers
“We know that national security and intelligence agencies are deeply interested in where people travel to, and in understanding the movement patterns of individuals regardless of their being identified as ‘targets’ of government surveillance," Parsons continued. "And Uber’s seeming failure to secure its data—to the point where developers have already found ways of querying the data by reverse-engineering Uber’s mobile client software—would suggest that an intelligence or security service that was sufficiently motivated could do the same.”
By underdog, you mean Lyft, right?
Uber is the Uberdog!
Is it that they want to kill competition or is it that they want Uber to abide by the same laws and regulations and pay the same taxes and fees that they do?
I don't have any problems with Uber not following the same laws and regulations, the same taxes and fees as established oligopolies do. But then I don't have any problem with the established oligopolies not having to follow that crap either.
These laws aren't put into place to restrict competition, as much as they are for consumer protection.
I don't buy it. Maybe that was the intent at one time. It's just barrier to entry now.
How many news articles have you read about Uber drivers raping or otherwise assaulting riders -- I can think of several off hand in the last year. How many news articles have you read about legally licensed cabbies doing the same?
I guess Uber doesn't buy better press. Last I checked, rape was illegal in the countries mentioned in the story. Maybe these localities should enforce existing law, assuming there actually is a problem to worry about.
What you said
Throwing out that Uber drivers raping/assaulting rider in one shit hole portion of what, India & Pakistan is somehow endemic to the entire Uber global phenomena and then claim that somehow out of millions of taxi drivers that no example can't be found.
Silly, hater, illogical nonsense.
Funny how taxi companies seem to be more tightly regulated than banks.
So you dont care how a product is made, as long as it's served to you nicely?
So long as it serves ME better than any existing product, yes.
To frame the discussion, Uber is far less dire a company than most cabbie unions. I have been cheated by nearly every cab driver I've ever used, had them refuse to accept payment from my wife, etc. None of that is even possible on Uber.
You say that typing on a device that was produced by workers paid half those of Apple workers.
Yeah, I think I'm going to pass on that critique Mr. Kettle.
The problem is, every Uber car I've ever gotten into has been a terrible mess, unwashed and bad smelling,
And a bald-face liar also! You must get all kinds of dates.
Every cab I've been in as been as you described, only not as nice. I've never been in a bad UberX yet (and of course the Uber cars are town cars which are simply never as you describe).
I'll let you have the last response, since it's a lot of work for no gain to respond to someone simply willing to lie about everything as you are.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
It's definitely just a way to kill competition. The taxi companies are mad that Uber isn't buying million-dollar medallions for each taxi - which would make their business model completely un-viable.
You want to know how to handle it properly and prevent crime? Look at what Portsmouth, NH did in response - not surprising since they're the home to the Free State Project. They disbanded the entire Taxi Comission and removed any extra restrictions on the normal cab companies that would prevent them from competing on a level playing field with Uber.
This doesn't mean there are no regulations - it means that Uber drivers are required to pay for the cost of a background check by the police department, and provide proof of insurance. This cost is tiny in comparison to buying a medallion, and provides the same level of safety as the background checks the taxi companies were running.
It's sad that a logical response by government is a surprise - adapting to changes while protecting citizens should be the basic mandate of government, not an exceptional feat.
I wonder if this will backfire and people will want to support the underdog.
Somehow I doubt that... But the mere existence of services like Uber will open the public's eyes, to the fact that (beside public transport & taxis) there are other ways to get from A to B.
The free market & modern communication technology has enabled services that -from passenger's point of view- is more efficient, and/or preferable over what the establishment provides. Of course that establishment will fight to protect the old ways of doing things, but at some point they'll either have to adapt, or be left behind. Which is how it should be.
Questionable business practices aside, if Uber helps make that progress happen: power to them! (and f*** the establishment).
Mod parent to the moon.
Fuck Uber. I'm sure investors will be thrilled their money is going directly to the legal systems.
Taxis in most cities are oligopolies in that the business is controlled by a few companies. The reason oligopolies are created is that they are compensation for requirements put on them by the government. Here are a few examples of what taxi companies are required to do or have that Uber is not.
1. Commercial licenses for drivers.
2. Minimum number of cars on the road
3. Vehicle inspections
4. Insurance requirements.
5. Minimum wage for drivers
6. Minimum number of handicap accessible vehicles.
7. Requirement to pick up anyone regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.
8. Set rate fares
9. Background checks
10. Accountability for drivers' actions (Uber just throws their hands in the air and says "they are a contractor I have no control" while taxi companies get fined)
11. Governance by a taxi board who decides on fines for poor service.
The laws for taxis have grown through the years and no jurisdiction in their right mind would want to go back to the days of no taxi regulations.
If Uber is allowed to flourish they may drive conventional taxis out of business. When the fad of driving for Uber fades we will be in a much worse situation.
I know that established taxi companies are fighting this, and I'm sure that's a big part of why Uber is getting harassed, but Uber is a really sleazy company. If Uber were more sympathetic I imagine there'd be more of a push to defend them.
Look at AirBNB. Same crowd-sourcing business plan, competing with heavily regulated established players, but a wholly more endearing image. They do get some guff, but no where near what Uber has been facing.
Any specific reasons? curious
thanks for reminding me that Robert Heinlein is a bourgeois piece of shit
Keep in mind however that only a handful of cities use Medallions. Outside of NYC and those other cities, Uber is getting busted for exactly what you propose: they refuse to do things like pay for police background checks and require drivers to hold a commercial driver's license. Uber is managing to break the law even in cities with a limited number of common sense laws.
Silly hater? Illogical nonsense? Hey asshole -- how about you at least bother to fucking google
Here's a comprehensive list of incidents, and in the US and Europe, not just in India and Pakistan http://www.whosdrivingyou.org/...
Fact is any psycho can become an uber driver and use the service to cruise for victims and that's exactly what has happened and will happen until they start screening and licensing their drivers as per the tai regulations EVERYWHERE mandate.
So fuck you, fuck your "mod point" and fuck your inability to even fucking use a fucking search engine.
Control – Is the person under the direction and control of another regarding the time, place, and way in which the work is done?
I believe with Uber a driver can refuse a job. If they do this too often, however, Uber will stop doing business with them.
In other words the driver has failed to perform the indicated work and gets "fired". So we really do have a case where the driver is under control of Uber and the contractor fails to meet the necessary requirements to not be an employee.
Portmout, NH sa one Uber driver. The taxi business in a town of 20,000 is very different that in a city of 20,000,000.
I think they call that "commerce". The drivers are probably exploiting Uber for their own enrichment.
Hahahaha no. Uber doesn't pay to maintain the vehicles, the drivers do. Both cleaning and mechanical upkeep. Uber doesn't pay for the insurance on the vehicle, and many of these drivers will find out the hard way that using it for Commercial Contract work falls outside their insurance terms & conditions. In many cases they will also find out the hard way that what they are doing is technically Commercial vehicle operation, which requires a different class of driver's license in most places- a license which is harder to get and easier to lose. The drivers are the ones liable in the event a passenger decides to sue them for something, and will have to foot their own legal bills to defend themselves. They're going to realize that their tax filing has to be done differently. They're going to find out they're the ones on the hook for not carrying the proper levels of insurance/bonding.
Look, it's pretty simple. If you get paid to give someone a ride, you're operating the vehicle for Commercial Purposes. There's a whole host of things you have to adhere to in order to do that legally. What Uber is doing is shifting that burden onto the drivers, most of whom don't understand the actual costs involved.
I like the idea behind what the Uber App itself does, but I dislike how the company actually operates. It's not "ride sharing" if you pay anything at all for the ride, period.
I don't know about GP, but Uber's response to "you can't legally run your service" being "fuck it, we'll do what we want" is pretty shitty.
Keep in mind however that only a handful of cities use Medallions.
At least the medallion system, as abhorrent as it is, allows the licenses to be transfered to other individuals. In most other places its even worse than the medallion system where there not only is an artificially limited supply, you've got to also be on the good graces of the local bureaucrat gatekeeper when there is an opening.
"His name was James Damore."
When Uber is outlawed, only outlaws will have Uber.
Well many of us predicted this day was coming rapidly. You can't just ignore a countries laws because you don't like them and expect them to just sit idly by, especially after receiving so many warnings. I predict many more shutdowns and potentially arrests to come yet! and thoroughly deserved. No company should ever be permitted to make decisions on what laws to obey, It can be excusable for individuals out of protest etc, but companies get away with enough shit without allowing them to dictate which laws they need to obey.
Yes. Most businesses work out how to play well in their legal landscape, but Uber seems to have the attitude that the world needs to just get the fuck out of their way.
Fuck em. I've no sympathy.
NO underdogs you clown, if they were licensed there would be no raids. Simple.
I guess Uber doesn't buy better press. Last I checked, rape was illegal in the countries mentioned in the story. Maybe these localities should enforce existing law, assuming there actually is a problem to worry about.
Perhaps you should read the article, that's exactly what they are doing- enforcing the law. Laws which say things such as "You have to conduct background checks and if someone has a rape conviction... don't let them drive people around for you."
But then I don't have any problem with the established oligopolies not having to follow that crap either.
That's a pretty broad claim to make. This isn't just a few places in the US getting pissed, it's pretty much every country they've started up business in.
Look, if you want to drive people around and get paid for it, there are things you have to do as a result. You need to carry insurance which covers your passengers. You need to prove your drivers are competent. You need to keep your vehicle maintained. You need to pay taxes on your income. You need to know who you're employing or contracting with. You're using the public roadways to make a profit, so some of that should go back to the public to help maintain the roadways.
Uber's business model it to try and circumvent or outright ignore as many costs as possible. They aren't trying to find ways to make things cheaper, but rather finding ways to shift the burden onto other people- the drivers, the public, and the passengers.
AirBNB also abides by the law (collecting occupancy tax for instance...)
How many news articles have you read about Uber drivers raping or otherwise assaulting riders -- I can think of several off hand in the last year.
How many news articles have you read about legally licensed cabbies doing the same?
Just take your pick. I'm not necessarily defending Uber, as they're not exactly a white knight in this story, but the notion that a government-issued license is going to somehow prevent sickos from assaulting women is naive.
The popularity of Uber and the dissatisfaction of traditional taxi's customers clearly show that a better solution can and should be found, so that services like Uber can legitimately compete for services, while at the same time not eschewing reasonable safety regulations that other taxi services must comply with.
Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Meanwhile, in right wing capitalist America, the law still doesn't matter if you're a corporation.
I spoke to hundred of Uber drivers about this here in SF (basically every ride I take..) - not a single one so far echo'd that stuff. I'm sure they could be paid more and have more advantage, but every single time they're telling me that they make more with Uber (even on 7USD pool rides, they get more than 7 USD) than they would with most jobs they could take at this time in their lives - certainly more than taxi drivers too!
So I don't know but that deal seems to work good enough for them.
The establishment has to answer the many complaints from the taxi unions despite (in France at least) one of the crapiest service in the world. Less working taxi leads to unemployment. And, to be fair, the requirements to become a taxi - would such requirement be relevant in the first place - are extremely heavy. All of a sudden Uber blooms everywhere and offers a service which is, actually, illegal in many countries. I'm glad Uber comes to balance the taxis monopoly, but all the aggressive and legal reactions against it were predictable.
I believe this is when the laws have to be changed - obviously these do not benefit the country, citizens or drivers. Only a minority.
Oh of course, I know, dreams and stuff.
Pretty sure this just means better staffed PR team.
All my Uber'ing has been flawless.. sure, every now and then ONE person will have an issue. Same with taxis. Same with anything.
It's just that the media will use anything for clickbait "these days".
Thanks. Now whenever I hear someone wanting more government control over firearms, the Internet, showers, barbecues, etc. with "common sense", "reasonable" regulations, I'll know the lower limit of what reasonable means.
I know this has been discussed ad nauseum, but why can't they simply fall under limo laws? A limo can't be hailed, but can pick you up at the airport.
You might also consider the other side:
You're either a self employed driver or running a small scale taxi operation. You paid a lot for equipment, training, proper licensing, insurance, and all the works and are still quite a few years into paying off the debts. But still, you're getting along just fine. There are probably a few competitors in your region, but since your service is appropriate, you manage to coexist with them. And since they're also properly licensed, the costs of getting into the game were roughly equal for them.
Now this "competition" turns up, funded by loads of cash from some Silicon Valley big shots. They don't give a rats ass about laws and regulations and bypass much of the costs you needed to make to get your business up and running by just ignoring the law, therefore allowing them to run a vastly cheaper service. But since they bypassed the law, their service is essentially illegal, but since they're big and important and have this "message" of progress and whatnot, they think they can get away with it.
This is not a fair form of competition at all and therefore should be illegal.
Many countries imposed strict regulations on taxi businesses, because there was actually a lot wrong with them. Taxis were often deemed unsafe and unreliable and the public actually demanded change. The result was strict regulation, which is what governments usually do if stuff doesn't work out naturally.
You do realize the licensing thing was basically put in place by the established players for this very reason yes? It's more than just "a bit of the reason".
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2364841/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0181984/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1
Does anyone think that Uber didn't anticipate this?
The local government in that situation has a revenue stream of selling the right to operate a taxi service and that revenue stream is being threatened, hence the reaction.
In the English speaking world that model of rights for revenue is as old as King John if not older, it's probably a similar vintage in Germany.
Except Uber is just exploiting people to enrich themselves.
Exactly. Let's stop them creating or drive them away.
apparently heinlein existed in a universe where the rich and powerful don't take advantage of the poor and weak, as has been the case since, gee, all of history and every society
people who believe stuff like that heinlein quote are known by those with money and power as "useful fools" and "good slaves"
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Because he's an AC and thus posts what he doesn't think, without much thinking.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Exploiting? Are you saying Uber forcibly kidnaps people and transports them?
The only exploitation is being done by those use state power to kill a voluntary and mutually consented transaction between adults.
It's not "the establishment does not like competition". Nobody likes competition. However it is actually illegal for your competitor to not abide to rules you need to abide to.
The correct way is that the market should integrate the actual, legal innovations of Uber (i.e. an app that matches drivers and riders), which should come easier if Uber is driven out of business by law enforcement.
Once law abiding taxi businesses have integrated these innovations, information asymmetry between dispatcher, driver, and rider -which is ultimately what taxi businesses are about- should plummet, and you'll end up paying something X between Uber price U and taxi price T (UXT), T-X being the value of the current information asymmetry, X-U being the money Uber currently externalizes to (i.e. steals from) driver and society.
> Or if you have a painting and auction it off, a portion goes off to the artists and their families for several generations, (often to collection agencies since said artist is dead), regardless of how you bought the painting/artwork and the arrangement at time of purchase.
Please note, that we are talking about Germany here, as in Third Reich. There was the Holocaust some 70 years ago: millions of jews living in Axis territory were sent to the concentration camp gas chambers, cremated and all their wealth was promptly looted by the "nordic aryan" germans. That wealth included a huge amount of art, because jewish people were quite well off and are generally very art-loving. Much of that loot submerged and was never recovered following WW2. The collected portion goes for reparation of that problem. This issue is not something you can understand from a never-left-CONUS viewpoint.
So, to prevent crime... make the thing that was criminal, no longer criminal? Brilliant!
Not saying it's a bad decision, mind you.
Thats very gud...
shamsher khan
One problem with uber is the drivers don't have a lot of asset. Am guessing the car is the most valuable thing they own, if they've even paid it off. So after an accident there isn't a lot of money to be had suing the driver.
So it is not ride sharing if I pay for part of the gas? What If I pay for lunch?
The vast majority of your post is dead on, your final line is a bit extreme and false.
Ride sharing may not be easy to define, it certainly should not have an expectation of profit, but lets say 4 employees of a company live near each other and have similar shifts. One offers to drive the others to work each day, freeing up the other 3 from driving. If each one drives in rotation then they meet your criteria. However is it wrong, or even commercial if they calculate wear and tear then split it amongst them? Maybe it costs 44c a mile to operate the average of those 4 vehicles so each non driver kicks in 11c a mile. 50 mile (100 round trip) commute, so they kick out 11 bucks a day each. Still not a commercial venture I would argue, still ride sharing.
Now if a 3rd party drives them, and they compensate the driver for time and wear/tear it is certainly commercial.
Uber is commercial, should follow commercial regs, ride sharing however does not end simply because money changes hands, maybe it is intent, maybe profit, I do not know at this point.
Double fuck UBER.
Capitalism is just a race to the bottom. Not only did Uber break the law, but they managed to get further to the bottom (read: paying nothing) so they are successful. It wouldn't be the first time, YouTube basically started off of publishing copyrighted material.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
How exactly are the drivers being exploited? Theres no pressure to be an Uber driver, its 100% voluntary. People make their own decision to sign onto the service.
"I wonder if this will backfire and people will want to support the underdog."
Uber is not an underdog. It is an organized effort to make money by undermining societal structure.
"adapting to changes while protecting citizens"
So government should help a law-breaking monopoly-in-the-making like uber by removing the laws they break? And you call that protecting citizens?
Actually, the real driver of this is that Uber got into a fight with the media. The Gentry don't take kindly to their attack dogs being barked at.
The shitty treatment of their employ... err "Independant contractors" for one thing.
Robert Heinlein was an intermittently interesting science fiction author, but a consistently useless guide to real world politics, economics or ethics. He's like Ayn Rand after a couple of tokes.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
As said time and time and time voer and voer and it is really boring to repeat: EVERYbody can be a taxi driver in germany providwed they buy the commercial insruance and get a special driver licence and get their coutner verified by the government the last one being to make sure you do not count 900 meters to be 1 kilometer. Inflating price. So this is not about established player this is about making uber respect the law. Law as you amy not above does not really protect incumbent as the cost to be a taxi driver are minimal.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Stories of regular cab drivers sexually assaulting riders:
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2014/12/tourist_says_cab_driver_raped.html/
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/exclusive-brooklyn-woman-recounts-traumatic-rape-taxi-article-1.2101285/
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/exclusive-alleged-victim-recounts-rape-cabbie-article-1.1772138/
http://www.local10.com/news/fort-lauderdale-cab-driver-accused-of-rape/29941056/
http://globalnews.ca/news/1801977/taxi-ride-leaves-woman-shaken-police-investigate-sexual-assault/
http://fox4kc.com/2014/10/01/woman-claims-cab-driver-robbed-raped-her/
It seems that meeting the licensing requirements doesn't magically protect passengers from drivers. As a side note, meeting strangers who advertised in traditional newspaper classified ads doesn't provide any magical protection over meeting strangers who advertised on craigslist. Also, Teslas don't actually catch fire more than any other kind of car. Media sensationalism is exactly what it says on the label.
Again, in germany EVERYBODY can become taxi driver, there is no medaillon no licence you can become a taxi driver in my city jsut by having the proper insurance the proper driving license and make sure you kilometer counter is checked to make sure you do not cheat. again do not think your local US regulation apply in other country there is next to no regulation for taxi in germany : everybody can be one. The only stuff I recall are that when night tarif start and end, who can park at the airport, and which driving line taxi can take. Nothing about incubent and established company.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Give it a rest. Uber are not underdogs, they're a corporation that believes they are above the law. They know they need licenses, but they do not obtain them. Their behavior is akin to the mafia. The do this all around the world, screwing over drivers, skirting around laws and insurance requirements, only to line their pockets. It's time the US started treating these shysters to some jail time.
People on this thread need a reality check - Cab companies are small businesses in Europe - Uber is not. Uber is a large scale organization that is defining cab rates below average in Europe which is dropping wages. At the same time, they are not getting licenses needed or paying the taxes their competitors are paying. That is illegal and it will remain illegal in most European countries.
Sure, you're free to compete--just as long as you don't compete with any of the state-sanctioned monopolies or any existing company that makes generous campaign contributions to our politicians.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Are they really? I mean, when given an equivalent fare ride from same location and destination, between a taxi and Uber, and Uber comes out cheaper, it's hard to argue that Uber is necessarily enriching themselves against the status quo. Yes, there's the argument for the cost of a taxi license, but you can't make that argument without brining into the conversation the insane cost of taxi licenses (see NYC taxi medallions. Other areas may differ but I doubt it.)
The point being, if the market will bare a lower price for a ride than what has been the norm, it's hard to claim someone is getting wealthier than those with entrenched interests. Perhaps you are referring to systemic 'campaign donations', and 'political fundraising' that Uber likely hasn't coughed up. A bribe is a bribe, and if Uber isn't paying and that alots for cheaper public, or in this case, private transportation, so be it. Those who are having a stagnated business model, and expected future income, are the ones being most vocal about this. I don't see swathes of people negatively bashing Uber. Oh right. If they were, they simply wouldn't use the service, now would they?!?! Funny thing, that free market.
I don't know how it is in the US (beyond the taxi journeys I've had which were never particularly good), but over here in Ye Olde Europe, our taxis are usually well-maintained with knowledgeable drivers. The medallion systems I've heard so much whining about generally don't exist. The only thing Uber is bringing to the table over here is spotty drivers and spotty service.
This criminal enterprise masquerading as a hip corporation had gone on long enough.
Bonus captcha: expelled
Uh. "medallions". You do realize this article isn't talking about the US? Because here in Germany there is no such thing. Informative +5 my behind...
Even when the law is wrong? Really?
Telling someone they can't make a living by running a pretty darn good service sounds awfully wrong to me.
Wonder what the public key field is for?
I know, licensing has a bit of a reason behind it, but still, I can't help feel that its the established players who want to kill any newcoming competition. that - in itself - really annoys me.
I wonder if this will backfire and people will want to support the underdog.
If you RTFA, you'll see that Uber is going to be doing business in accordance with the law, while this sorts out.
The issue, it would seem, is that Uber is trying to do an end run around regulations. It's whether you accept the concept that they are not a taxi company, but a service connecting drivers and riders. The problem is, they collect 20 percent of the drivers fares.
It takes a special kind of eel-snot slickness to try to make that argument, one that only anarchists and bottom of the barrel libertarians would accept - you know, the type of people who say doctors shouldn't be certified, because after enough patients of the incompetent ones die, the free market will prevail.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
That - in itself - really annoys me.
Well, I'll guess you'll just have to get in line behind us folks who think that just because you come up with a business idea, you still shouldn't be able to ignore laws. But I guess that's just those of us who believe in civilization.
That is all.
What if I told you
*glasses*
you don't need employees
and you can provide a better, safer service
Wonder what the public key field is for?
http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
San Fransisco taxi drivers average somewhere around $40k/year.
...after the taxi mafias started demonstrating, shutting down roads and even physically attacking Uber Drivers.
Why do I say they are a mafia? Well, for a start, not a single new licence has been issued by the authorities in the last 30 years (more or less). If you want a license, you have to buy one from a current Driver at an astronomical price. In Madrid some people have paid more than 300.000€ for a taxi license, often going heavily into debt. These drivers then have to work extremely long hours without taking any Holidays to pay off their debt, while a few families have dozens of licenses in their hands, not having to work at all as they prefer to have 3 guys driving around 8 hours a day each for a minimum wage pocketing enormous profits. When they die, licenses are automatically inherited by their children, thus perpetuating the monopoly.
Of course, this is all starting to backfire on them as it adds to decades of overpricing, regular passenger-scamming and rude behaviour (which they could allow themselves thanks to the lack of competition). People have given a great welcome to Uber and after the mafia has shown ist true face les and less people are using taxis.
Even when the law is wrong? Really?
Yes. You obey it or pay the consequences. That's why civil disobedience is so powerful. You are doing something and paying the price to show that something is unjust.
Sadly, Uber (and most of their supporters) are just a bunch of whining asshats.
That is all.
This isn't just a few places in the US getting pissed, it's pretty much every country they've started up business in.
So what? There's a lot of taxi oligopolies out there. Just because people are "pissed" doesn't mean that I should care.
Look, if you want to drive people around and get paid for it, there are things you have to do as a result. You need to carry insurance which covers your passengers. You need to prove your drivers are competent. You need to keep your vehicle maintained. You need to pay taxes on your income. You need to know who you're employing or contracting with. You're using the public roadways to make a profit, so some of that should go back to the public to help maintain the roadways.
I'm quite aware of the schemes used to protect established taxi companies. I just don't think those are worth the bother.
"Fact is any psycho can become an uber driver and use the service to cruise for victims and that's exactly what has happened and will happen until they start screening and licensing their drivers as per the tai regulations EVERYWHERE mandate."
Umm, Uber requires that you pass a Driving Background Check, a Sexual Predator background check, a Criminal background check, a SSN trace to verify your identity, and a car inspection by a city licensed mechanic (and in MN, its the same mechanics and same inspection form the cabbies use).
But good job just making things up.....
Uber is a new type of corporate America that is perfectly happy to make serfs out of the average citizen. We're back to the common trades class now.
This is not a step ahead for domestic workers, this is taking advantage of the desperate situation they are in.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
"Therefore, in the fight for our new idea, which conforms completely to the primal meaning of life, we shall find only a small number of comrades in a social order which has become decrepit not only physically but mentally also. From these strata of our population only a few exceptional people will join our ranks, only those few old people whose hearts have remained young and whose courage is still vigorous, but not those who consider it their duty to maintain the state of affairs that exists."
Hitler, Mein Kampf.
I will gladly accept a Godwin loss to point out the ironies of a philosophy blind to the the reality that all segments of society, even its most privileged, are subject to the most basic and fundamental of human errors.
Yeah, people have been saying this since the beginning and yet, all the scientific, economic indicators say, for the vast majority of the time (like 98%), things are getting better, not worse.
GDP, nutrition, productivity, hours of relaxation time, variety of entertainment, cost of basic necessities and transit... all improving, many even through recessions (i.e. when GDP is going down).
Wonder what the public key field is for?
"A witty saying proves nothing" - Voltaire.
Besides, Heinlein is overrated, eternally stuck in the 1950ies and had a strange obsession with slide rules.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
The numbers are well known to be slanted towards the upper class. The numbers only reflect income, not the quality or permanence of that income. Uber is exactly the kind of company that these numbers overlook.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
You could almost say capitalism is... a race to the top? Improving the living standard of everyone, where even the poorest of the poor have A/C and television?
*gives cookie*
Wonder what the public key field is for?
I should add, the reason why numbers don't account for companies who employ like Uber in the first place is because no one really thought a corporation would have such a low level of loyalty to its employees. There isn't even any point talking about corporate culture any more.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
Panama City has essentially zero licensing restrictions on cab ownership. You can always catch a taxi...except that sometimes they won't take you more than a couple blocks because of congestion. You tell them where you want to go before you get in so that they have the opportunity to tell you to fuck off, and that happens as often as not. Generally speaking in those cases you're probably better off walking anyway. The taxis themselves are almost always roadworthy, though!
Anyone who wants to support Uber should spend some time in Panama City, as an object lesson on the reasons for taxi regulations.
Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
But that's what Uber is. They are a company that is trying to bend the rules or avoid the rules to make money while delivering an inferior service. The rules in this case aren't a moving target and contrary to belief they weren't implemented to protect taxi drivers. Instead they were implemented to protect the public.
The Uber service is great. All they are missing is the licensing. If they did that from the beginning they could have enticed actual licensed taxi drivers to join them instead of having to work for these cut throat companies who monopolize the market and give back very little to the drivers. Instead, the drivers are now helping said companies to push Uber out.
Uber pays their "contractors" less than minimum wage, because all fees are on the driver. Last I checked, minimum wage is 50% below living wage.
" I can't help feel that its the established players who want to kill any newcoming competition. that - in itself - really annoys me."
In this case the established players have to pay a lot fees and follow a lot of expensive rules.
It would be like a car company that refused to do emission and crash testing.
The cars might be as safe as any on the street but...
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I asked my last Uber driver (who was driving her BMW 328i) how she liked it, the money, etc. Her answer was "I drove for a week and quit my two other jobs. It's all I do now."
Now, if you did some kind of spreadsheet and factored in maintenance, correct insurance, etc, it might end up being "not so good of a deal" but that's really impossible to say unless you're the driver.
Calling it "exploitation" is hyperbolic in the same way that a Marxist calls anyone working for a capitalist "exploited". OK, within a specific analytic framework and with a specific set of value judgements made maybe it is, but at the same time you can find a lot of other people who one group calls "exploited" who say "What? I'm totally satisfied with this arrangement."
Underdog? Really? From where I'm standing, uber looks as much an underdog as Google.
Slashdot's answer to that is "we know, haven't you seen our video ads?"
I can't help feel that its the established players who want to kill any newcoming competitionp>
It's 100% a case of this but as with Napster, Uber has gone about their innovation by attacking from the outside and are therefore doomed. In a few years, a smarter player will attack from the inside and be the long run success.
Uber is a sleazy company, but what this is really about is preventing competition to the local state-maintained taxi-cartels everywhere.
See how anywhere Uber goes, taxi unions bitch and moan and governments scramble to criminalize Uber or at the very least cause it problems?
If you had paid $700 000 for a license to transport people from Place A to B, you'd be a pissed off debt-serf too. That licensing also represents a hefty stream of income to the government, not even counting whatever bribes they're collecting etc.
On the other hand, if you asked the people who now have a much cheaper taxi service available to them, do you think they'd tell you to prevent it from operating because.. um, safety?
Shut them off, I'm with the system on this one.
Uber requires that you pass a Driving Background Check, a Sexual Predator background check, a Criminal background check, a SSN trace to verify your identity, and a car inspection by a city licensed mechanic
Does Uber follow up and verify your background check, or do they just accept any documentation you send them?
Go on, citizen, stamp the vote card. R or D, your choice.
Normally I'd show more support for new players with a novel idea disrupting the established market... but Uber has generally shown itself to be a terribly shady company. No thanks.
In right-wing crony-capitalist America, the cab companies in many cities have gamed the regulatory system so as to maximize economic rents.
"while taxi drivers are required to accept anyone needing a ride"
I don't want no stankin niggers in my car and you can't make me haul stankin niggers either. Not even the white ones!
The AC has a good point, that you seem to have missed. It's particularly easy with cars to think that you're getting a good deal in the short term. Oh, I burned $100 in gas and made $300! This is awesome! Except you forgot to account for commercial insurance (or getting sued if you don't have it), a commercial drivers license (or getting fined if you don't have it), maintenance, amortization of the car (particularly if you're leasing it and discover that, whoops, your lease doesn't cover commercial use), unemployment insurance, pension, health care (especially if you "forget" to pay them and the government comes knocking one day).
Those happy Uber drivers might be fooling themselves. But if they are and they wise up one day and quit, well, there are lots of other suckers, er, employees, for Uber.
You sound like the last "real" taxi driver I had. He was such a bastard I haven't used a taxi since 2002.
Actually, there are fairly well worked out regulations for this kind of thing, in the aviation and marine industries. They very likely apply to cars as well.
The basic guideline is your "it certainly should not have an expectation of profit." For example, if you're a pilot or skipper and you're taking some people up or out, they can pay for their share of the fuel, but no more. They cannot pay you for your time. I'd have to look up the rules on non-monetary compensation (lunch), but I'm sure it's covered.
Uber isn't ride sharing not because money changes hands, but because Uber drivers are making far more than the passenger's share of the fuel. Uber's own ads advertise "now your car is a money maker."
When there is no reasonable argument as to the harm caused by a crime, the only reasonable course of action is to strike off the law that defines the crime.
Wait till some get sued, or city legislature kicks in, whatever comes first.
Then why have salaries been stagnant since the 70's. Listen, I really wish I could be as optimistic as you, but I haven't seen many improvements in my lifetime. The trend is definitely downward. If, in 100 years everyone still owns a TV I will be very surprised.
Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
I know, licensing has a bit of a reason behind it, but still, I can't help feel that its the established players who want to kill any newcoming competition. that - in itself - really annoys me.
I wonder if this will backfire and people will want to support the underdog.
I personally don't find a company trying to leverage some mobile web advantage into a world-wide monopoly to be much of an underdog.
I just don't see Uber as an underdog in any way, and this is why you'll find people all over the place saying "Good, serves them right" when these stories come out.
I'm really not sure how Uber is exploiting anyone. Exploiting the drivers who choose to sign up to drive with them? Exploiting riders who choose to ride with them. I guess some people see the rest of humanity of just victims. I'm ok with Uber making money off their product. I drove for them and Lyft last year whenever I felt like turning the app on after-hours from my really job. While you were sitting on your butt reading slahdot, complaining about the world, & probably up to you neck in debt, I was hustling and making extra cash so I can live a great debt free life & talking to a lot of nice riders. It guess it is easier to be a hater.
That's been going up too: http://research.stlouisfed.org...
Wonder what the public key field is for?
I don't use Uber, but I have several friends who do. By and large the main comment I hear is that they appreciate knowing what the trip will cost before taking it. If taxi companies made that one change, they would take away the major reason my friends use Uber.
I know lots of "contractors" who have been doing the same job for 5+ years and work for major companies.
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