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Report: NASA May Miss SLS Launch Deadline

An anonymous reader writes: A post at the Planetary Society's blog summarizes a report from NASA's Office of Inspector General which says the agency will struggle to get launch facilities up and running in time for the Space Launch System's November 2018 launch deadline. "Ground systems are a critical piece of the SLS-Orion infrastructure. All three elements are tightly integrated, with ground systems requiring significant input from the rocket and capsule designs." To be more specific, NASA has found 462 separate inter-dependencies, less than two-thirds of which have been resolved so far. "The Mobile Launcher must be moved into the Vehicle Assembly Building for testing prior to the delivery of SLS and Orion. When it comes time to stack the rocket and capsule for the first flight, there may be a 'learning curve,' said the OIG, where engineers work through unforeseen glitches." They're also worried about having to develop all the software to run these systems before the hardware is in place to test.

59 comments

  1. NASA missing a date is not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    But it would be news if they made the launch date

    1. Re:NASA missing a date is not news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      /thread

    2. Re:NASA missing a date is not news by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 1

      Given the present environment on Capitol Hill, I think it would be news if they launched at all. At the end of the day, I think that of the successes NASA will have had, it will be best known for their incubation of commercial launch and infrastructure services. Not the Moon, not Mars, not earth sciences, ..., but rather their work wresting control of the rockets upon which crew and cargo are sent heavenward as well as their habitation from Congress and the MIC.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    3. Re:NASA missing a date is not news by Megane · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Launching is not the priority, maintaining Shuttle-era pork is the priority. So SNAFU.

      --
      #naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
    4. Re:NASA missing a date is not news by LostMyBeaver · · Score: 1

      Agreed.

      NASA is an awesome organization, but the political requirements they have which seem to be congressional mandates to pump good money after bad into hogs like Lockheed, Grumman, Harris, etc... is their greatest failure.

      I have tried many times to find any records of successful projects from the companies building the SLS. Not once have they ever come close to deadline or within 100% of their original budget. They appear to habitually underbid on contracts to win them. They then appear to invest heavily in posturing for more money. Then when lawsuits fly, they provide massive golden parachutes and eventually start work understaffed and without the right people. What few projects they actually complete are often rubbish.

      I don't always agree with Elon Musk. His choice to poison the planet with lithium waste and intentionally not focusing on a better method of lowering the cost of recycling lithium pisses me off. I grew up with a fear of the beach because of toxic and medical waste washed ashore because assholes like him chose the easier path. But, NASA needs to help build more companies like his. Companies the say "If you give us $100 million, we'll do the same as those big guys need $5 billion for".

      Even better, try to build dreams. There are probably 1 million+ highly skilled and experienced hackers and engineers here that would happily work a 2-4 year stint making new space tech if we had any idea where to apply.

      How about a massive maker fair where mad scientists and creative geniuses gather to present ideas. Once a day for two weeks, a group walks the floor, evaluates projects and cancels some and move those engineers to other teams which made the cut. At the end, give 5-10 teams a development budget of $10 million and 6 months wages. Call them back and the teams who show something that actually works will be granted funds and contracts.

      There are so many better ways to work than how NASA does.

    5. Re: NASA missing a date is not news by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      First off, tesla will be recycling their batteries. In fact, giga-factory was developed for that. Secondly, NASA is not the problem. Congress, more specifically the neo-cons, are. As such, once spacex and BO are competing with reusable engines, the GOP can go pound sand or each other.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  2. budget by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    If NASA had a bigger budget several years ago, work on launch facilities could have started earlier, and be ready on time. Think of all the stuff sequestration is hurting right now.

    1. Re:budget by kellymcdonald78 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's not the size of NASA's budget, (Bolden keeps saying they have all the money they need for SLS), it's the unholy mess of earmarks that ties NASA's hands at just about every step. These days NASA can't take a shit without some congressional earmark telling them what brand of toilet paper to use. NASA is no longer about space, it's about launching money into key congressional districts

    2. Re:budget by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      And on that score, the Senate Launch System has apparently been performing as designed.

    3. Re:budget by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      The article explains it fairly well. The SLS organization is a disaster. Not that this is unexpected.

      NASA’s Office of Inspector General warned that Ground Systems Development and Operations, or GSDO, may be hard-pressed to have Kennedy Space Center's launch facilities ready on time. ...
      "GSDO cannot finalize and complete its requirements without substantial input for the other two programs," said Jim Morrison, the assistant inspector general for audits. "And NASA is still finalizing the requirements for those programs."

      In other words the pad work is delayed because they haven't finished the rocket design yet. And this is like 3 years before the launch.

      Historically, said the OIG, NASA has taken a more centralized approach to the management of its in-house launch programs, synchronizing development activities through a single contractor. This is not the case for SLS, Orion and GSDO—each program is managed independently, with an emphasis placed on cross-program coordination. The OIG believes this approach is inefficient and could lead to scheduling delays.

      I suggest NASA reads this paper:
      Bayer, Martin. "Hermes- Lessons learnt." IAF, International Astronautical Congress, 45 th, Jerusalem, Israel. 1994.

  3. This is why NASA needs to privatize by Karmashock · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Outsource the whole operation to SpaceX or Boeing and then have them be responsible for hitting the deadline.

    It won't cost more then what it currently costs, the US will retain the internal capability to do the work... and we'll be able to put real pressure on the whole institution to actually hit deadlines.

    They want to get paid? Deliver on the contract.

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    1. Re:This is why NASA needs to privatize by thrich81 · · Score: 1

      I can't say about SpaceX and they already have their Falcon Heavy in the works (which doesn't match the SLS specs), but Boeing is already the prime contractor for most of the SLS vehicle -- "Boeing is the prime contractor for the design, development, test and production of the launch vehicle cryogenic stages, as well as development of the avionics suite." http://www.boeing.com/boeing/d...

      Being an old school aerospace contractor, Boeing knows the risks to deliver new, cutting edge space hardware*. I doubt they would take this project on as fixed cost or with a hard delivery date.

      *Yeah, I know that SLS doesn't look cutting edge compared to the Saturn V or Space Shuttle, but it's development will be sucha large effort, it might as well be.
      Don't take anything I said here as actual approval of how the SLS was conceived and is being done.

    2. Re:This is why NASA needs to privatize by Guspaz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Boeing is doing SLS on a cost-plus contract. SpaceX' work for NASA is a fixed-price contract.

      What that means is that, with a cost-plus, if a contractor goes over budget, then NASA will pay for the overage, no matter how much it is. With a fixed-price contract, NASA pays a fixed amount, and any overages are up to the contractor to absorb.

      There are certain justifications for cost-plus, for example a small company where a fixed-price contract could bankrupt the company if something goes wrong. In that case, NASA gets nothing, because there is no opportunity to fund the overage. But with a cost-plus, the safety net is there, where NASA would have the choice to either terminate the contract, or pay the overage.

      The problem comes when you have big companies like Boeing doing cost-plus contracts, who are perfectly capable of absorbing cost overruns without going bankrupt. They have no incentive to stick to any sort of budget or schedule.

    3. Re:This is why NASA needs to privatize by PPH · · Score: 3, Interesting

      To add to all of this, NASA is taking on a large part of the responsibility for "systems integration" for SLS/Orion. This is where major cost overruns originate. And when Boeing has a cost plus contract, every requirements clarification NASA produces represents a change order Boeing can bill for.

      This is the wet dream of every government contractor.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:This is why NASA needs to privatize by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      There's no reason Boeing couldn't be doing this on a fixed price model. In fact, they should be doing it. SpaceX would take the contract on that basis. And frankly they're making some really good progress with delivering high quality products at a fraction of the competition's price.

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    5. Re:This is why NASA needs to privatize by Kjella · · Score: 0

      Boeing wouldn't take it. Would SpaceX? I'm not so sure, they haven't launched the Falcon Heavy yet. We know they're working on the Raptor engine and even bigger rockets, but not if they're at the point they'd accept a fixed price contract. Sure they might say they will all the while SLS negates any chance NASA will actually do it, but it's easy to bail on that. I think SpaceX would be better off with a runner-up contract, like with the "Commercial Crew" program. There's probably not room in NASAs budget for two projects of that dimension though.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:This is why NASA needs to privatize by Karmashock · · Score: 2

      If you offered them a chance to take boeing's contract they'd make it work. The money is too good.

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    7. Re: This is why NASA needs to privatize by Redbehrend · · Score: 1

      I agree, Boeing has a death grip on the contracts, there was even a article how they are deathly afraid of SpaceX

    8. Re: This is why NASA needs to privatize by Karmashock · · Score: 1

      They should be afraid. They aren't offering competitive service. They have that "in" of being a weapons contractor which opens a lot of doors.

      Possibly spaceX should develop some missiles. Seriously. It might help them. Maybe produce some cruise missiles or something. There are close ties between the Pentagon and NASA. NASA likes to pretend they're not there but you can see it in the budget. Programs are shifted between the two organizations dynamically depending on which ever one has more room in their budget for something.

      A couple NASA projects were recently moved into the "defense" budget. They flow back and forth both ways... and never forget that quite a few of the astronauts come out of the air force.

      So... maybe spaceX needs to make some friends in the DoD.

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    9. Re:This is why NASA needs to privatize by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      their Falcon Heavy in the works (which doesn't match the SLS specs)

      Especially in the $/kg area. :-p

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re: This is why NASA needs to privatize by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      They should be afraid. They aren't offering competitive service.

      Boeing/ULA has already announced the retirement of Delta IV Medium. It could be either because Delta IV Medium was utterly uncompetitive already, or because Delta IV Medium will have even fewer chances to get any contracts after Falcon 9 gets certified, or because ULA wants to blackmail the Congress into re-allowing the import of RD-180 for national security payloads.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    11. Re:This is why NASA needs to privatize by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      We know they're working on the Raptor engine and even bigger rockets

      All that while doing important contributions to the problem of rocket engine analysis.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  4. Space Czar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sorry if this seems like hero worship, but I see it more as practical and common sense. If a guy like Elon Musk can build up a company like SpaceX, then we should make him 'Space Czar', and hand over the NASA budget to him.

    I can expound on why, but the only thing I can think of is: 'period'!

    1. Re:Space Czar by Guspaz · · Score: 1

      Musk has a pretty terrible reputation for sticking to deadlines himself. He'd get enormously more done with the same amount of money, sure, but don't expect it on time.

    2. Re: Space Czar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is more important: deadlines or achievements.

      Seriously

    3. Re: Space Czar by Redbehrend · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Deadlines ruin projects, NASA is known to never make a deadline lol. Musk doesn't have the greatest record but when he does hit the milestone there is some extra. Example rocket landing at sea created the new ocean launch\landing pad program with automation research, docking, etc.. That will help more than just the rocket landings.

    4. Re:Space Czar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Space is hard. Sometimes stuff takes longer.

      But most "delays" with SpaceX things have been internal re-prioritizations.

      For example, Falcon Heavy was prioritized down because... 1. They wanted to have the re-use working so Heavy would use that from day 1 and 2. existing customers paying for launches were late with their payloads, so they could afford to take longer with it.

    5. Re:Space Czar by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      Well they can also do three Falcon 9 launches with the same amount of cores for a single Heavy which I expect gives them a lot more profit for roughly the same amount of manufacturing work.

      It also helps clear their launch backlog and build a customer base. So it is not unreasonable that spend the first one or two years just doing Falcon 9 launches.

    6. Re:Space Czar by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      You won't achieve anything worthwhile unless you set yourself some pretty outrageous goals. I'm pretty sure that Alan Kay's "If you don't fail at least 90 percent of the time, you're not aiming high enough" also applies to deadlines.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    7. Re:Space Czar by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Well they can also do three Falcon 9 launches with the same amount of cores for a single Heavy which I expect gives them a lot more profit for roughly the same amount of manufacturing work.

      Only until reusability kicks in, because with FH, you're expending just one upper stage instead of the three needed for three F9 launches (ditto for fairings). With roughly similar total payload mass in both cases, you're suddenly wasting just one third of your hardware compared to the F9 flights. It all depends on the stage refly costs, of course. I choose to remain a cautious optimist for the moment.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    8. Re:Space Czar by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Yeah if they can get it to work it will be a tremendous improvement.

  5. I can't find my surprised look glasses! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have to be here somewhere. ....must....look....surprised....

  6. Re:CUT THE FEDERAL BUDGET by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    I suppose that is why the government spending and revenue as a percentage of GDP increased by an average of about 2.5% of GDP per decade for the past seven decades. If you want to make a cancer analogy....

  7. Re:CUT THE FEDERAL BUDGET by ganjadude · · Score: 3, Insightful

    we should cut the budget

    that has nothing to do with nasa, who brings in some .5% of the budget.

    We can still cut the budget in other areas that are rife with abuse, and not touch (or give more to) nasa

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  8. Unacceptable by cmdr_klarg · · Score: 2

    You must find and itemize any and all unforeseen problems that could crop up, complete with solutions and procedure to minimize their impact.

    --
    THE SOFTWARE, IT NO WORKY!!!
  9. Re:CUT THE FEDERAL BUDGET by dpilot · · Score: 1

    One man's abuse is another man's necessity.

    Deciding who is right is the problem.

    --
    The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
  10. Re: CUT THE FEDERAL BUDGET by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then you look and see what counts as government spending has changed.

  11. Crazy! by sycodon · · Score: 1

    Maybe they could do something crazy like making a general puopse launch center that can handle SLS, Space-X, others, now and into the future instead of starting from scratch on each new program.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  12. Obama said he'd fundamentally change America by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    and he did.

    1. Re: Obama said he'd fundamentally change America by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      And yet, is the GOP that pushes the communist solution and works to kill off private space while O pushes private space to prevent peckers like you from continuing to destroy america.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  13. Read all about it! by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

    Potemkin rocket launch delayed!

  14. obvious issue by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    NASA has found 462 separate inter-dependencies, less than two-thirds of which have been resolved so far.

    sounds like someone deleted systemd from their software repo. ;)

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:obvious issue by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 1

      Sounds like someone failed to do a proper "systems engineering" job in the first place. Part of that job is identifying system interfaces between the parts early, then controlling the interface. In computer terms, the PCI specification is the interface between the PCI slot and the PCI card that goes in the slot. You have to control that specification so the parts will work together. A rocket and the launch site it uses are just bigger and more complicated interfaces.

  15. It was not that complicated by manu0601 · · Score: 1

    It was not that complicated to launch stuff during the space race time with USSR. Was NASA killed by quality control procedures?

  16. National Research Council Predicted This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last year the National Research Council published a report that stated USA Launch Capability will not be achievable for another 50 years at least. Additionally the time and infrastructure needed to facilitate a Human cargo to a return to the Moon, irrespective to Mars, would need an additional 50 years.

    The only thing that NASA is doing now is to burn through the money the Bush Administration gave it, and that is the only reason for the SLS.

    The SLS was programmed to fail even before any hardware was built.

    Musk cannot eat enough cocaine to grow a brain suitable to solve the problem; Musk is part of the problem; he is obsolete before birth.

    Ha ha

    1. Re: National Research Council Predicted This by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      You must be either gaetano or effritz. Either way, both of are total idiots, who does understand a thing.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  17. no. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    First off, it IS complicated. This IS rocket science.
    Secondly, the problem is the GOP. They want NASA as a jobs bill only in their district. Private space is not under their control so they have issues.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  18. Re: Slow walking by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    Constellation, like SLS, were giveaways for the GOP. Thank god the SLS will be dead in 2-3 years, though NASA will have wave wasted some 30 billion because you GOP cocksuckers hate America.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  19. Re: CUT THE FEDERAL BUDGET by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    The problem has been neo-cons that increase spending while giving taxcuts and destroying the economy.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  20. Actually, no by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Obama administration HATES this rocket and has been slow-walking it all along. They tried to kill it but the Senate (then under Democrat control) wrote it into law (which is why some critics call SLS the "Senate Launch System"). Every year of the program, the Obama team has asked for LESS money for SLS and congress as forced them to accept more (same thing is happening this year - administrator Bolden testified recently on capitol hill that he has too much money for SLS). Every year, the Obama admin tries shifting money from SLS to commercial crew (they refuse to fully-fund BOTH because they hate SLS and congress, in an angry response refuses to boost both because that would seem to reward bad behavior).

    This is hand-in-hand with the lie that they were converting KSC into a "21st century multi-user space port" when all they were really douing was making certain the shuttle program could never be restarted, and guaranteeing no future manned mars mission. Instead of having multiple vendors stack in the VAB high bays and roll-out to one of two "clean pads" on vendor-specific MLPs atop the crawlers (as they sold it congress and the public) they cut a deal with SpaceX to let SpaceX build a permanent structure in the crawler way on the path to pad39A - so 39A will never be able to launch an SLS (or anything else but a Falcon). This means only 39B can launch an SLS and given the time it takes to refurb a pad between launches there will be no way to launch multiple SLSs in quick-enough succession to support a manned Mars project. (multiple launches would be required close together because LOX and LH2 boil-off rapidly - you cannot park a fully-fuelled mars departure stage in LEO for more than a couple days awaiting the rest of the mission package before the fuel evaporates)

    SLS is required by the 2010 law to be ready to fly in 2017, yet each year the Obama team says they need LESS money and then they say the date will slip (first they said it would slip into FISCAL 2017 (calendar 2018 - it's a budget technicality)) and they pretended to be obeying the law. Now in the so-called 4th quarter of the President's term, however, all bets are off and he's in full-on ignore-the-laws mode.

    1. Re:Actually, no by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      you cannot park a fully-fuelled mars departure stage in LEO for more than a couple days awaiting the rest of the mission package before the fuel evaporates

      I think It would be weeks at the worst, and even that most likely because of the presence of Earth. The tanks can be sun-shaded, just like the JSWT. In the interplanetary space, months would be survivable...although methane is probably a better idea in the first place, at least until we start mining ice in space.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
  21. Troll if ever there was one by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, idiot! your DO realize that it was a DEMOCRAT congress that forced Obama to build SLS right???????

    You're either completely dishonest or completely ignorant.

    What simpering idiot rated the previous poster a "troll" and gave YOU a score of 2??????????

    1. Re:Troll if ever there was one by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      You are full of shit and never want to take responsibility for your actions, or the actions of your leaders.
      It was the neo-cons that created the SLS in their bill. Worse, they are the cocksuckers that continue to work to kill off private space. NASA wanted 3 companies to handle manned launches. It was your leaders that pushed for 1-2 companies, pushing Boeing and SNC, and fought hard to kill off SpaceX from the list.

      Stupid idiots like you are why we continue to elect GOP and dems. You refuse to take responsibility for your actions. Go suck on Boehner's Boehner.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  22. Not Born For Another 150 Years by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last year the Nation Academies of Science issued a report which indicated a return flight to the Moon or even a new flight to Mars would be impossible for at least 50 years and most likely not possible for another 150 years.

    The Reason.

    The USA does not have the economy, industrial infrastructure nor educational infrastructure to allow humans to the trained, let alone educated for such a task.

    150 years.

    Yes. The dismal efforts of the current NASA and the SLS, payed for by the Bush Administration, are insufficient and will fail.

    150 years.

    Can you imagine that 150 years ago, 1865, the USA, near this day, was about to sign an armistice to end the Civil War! Can you ever imagine that.

    Robert H. Goddard would not be born for another 17 years after and who would design, build and launch a liquid propelled rocket on March 16, 1926.

    We are as far away from launching a mission to the moon or mars as the Vikings launching a mission to Tierra del Fuego in 10000 BC.

  23. Here's the proof you liar by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Here's the actual law

    which you will note is dated October 11th 2010.

    Here's the Wikipage for that congress

    which proves the Democrats controlled that US Senate at the time by a 56-to-42 margin.

    The NASA particulars ware driven by the Senate rather than the House (which is both why it's called the "Senate Launch System" AND how it got passed, given that Harry Reid (D-Nevada) ran the senate and refused to allow any House bills to even be debated in the Senate between 2010 and 2014; when Harry lost the majority last fall he had parked over 400 House bills in his desk without debate or vote.

    Liars like you pollute the internet with misinformation. The fact that you feel compelled to lie proves that you know the facts are contrary to your beliefs and you cannot win an argument truthfully.