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How Nuclear Weapon Modernization Undercuts Disarmament

Lasrick writes: John Mecklin details exactly how nuclear weapons modernization is kick-starting a new arms race, and how modernizing these weapons to make them more accurate and stealthy puts the world at even greater risk of nuclear war: "[T]his is precisely why the U.S. Congress rejected the Air Force’s requests for low-yield, precision-guided nuclear weapons in the 1990s: Their very accuracy increases the temptation to use them." The issue is not getting very much attention, but the patience of the non-nuclear states is wearing thin, and a breakthrough in public awareness may be on the horizon: "The disarmament debate is likely to make this spring's NPT conference a contentious one and just might be loud enough to make the public aware that a new type of nuclear arms race is unfolding around the world."

18 of 228 comments (clear)

  1. Countries without nuclear weapons get invaded by Xenkar · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Often by the United States of America or other western powers. When nations see that having a nuke prevents other nations from toppling them, nukes become vital for stability.

    Perhaps we should stop driving them towards nuclear weapons by invading them for oil and minerals.

    1. Re:Countries without nuclear weapons get invaded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      ... or slaughtering their own citizens.

      I think you mean "holding back their oil". Because slaughtering their citizens never really registered on any country's radar, except as an excuse to accomplish something else.

    2. Re:Countries without nuclear weapons get invaded by gurps_npc · · Score: 1, Insightful
      I always laugh at the "war for oil" people.

      Do you know what the first war for oil was? World War Two. Japan wanted the oil in the Philippines, but the US owned them. So they (almost simultaneously) attacked the Philippines and the US Navy base in Hawaii that let the US protect the Philippines. That is simple history. The US proceeded to defend both ourselves and our allies (The Philippines).

      That same pattern - 1) someone evil SOB who hatefull kills innocents, wants oil, so they attack an ally or pre-emptively attacks us for allying with them, 2) the US defends itself and our ally. 3) some idiot complains about 'war for oil' - continues to this day.

      Do you still think "war for oil" is a bad idea?

      The US has never, not once, invaded a country for oil and minerals. The idea that we have started a war for oil is just plain stupid. We are simply far too smart to do that kind of stupidity - not when we can so easily and cheaply have the CIA start a coup (which we did do in Iran).

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    3. Re:Countries without nuclear weapons get invaded by gstoddart · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The US has never, not once, invaded a country for oil and minerals. The idea that we have started a war for oil is just plain stupid.

      No, but the reality was before you went into Iraq in 2003, against any sensible facts, and despite evidence that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 ... your own government had people talking about how the oil you'd get from Iraq would pay for the war because they'd be so grateful. How did that work out for you?

      And, further, how many places has America utterly failed to act when there was no oil?

      America ignores what's happening in Africa because there's no oil for the most part. And yet claims loudly they must intercede in the middle east out of principle and on humanitarian grounds.

      Has it occurred to you that the much vaunted "principles" America claims before going to war are entirely dependent on oil and/or your own economic benefit, and that your claims to do this out of a sense of right and wrong is bullshit?

      Because it certainly has to the rest of the world.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    4. Re:Countries without nuclear weapons get invaded by Major+Blud · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "Japan wanted the oil in the Philippines"

      uh, wut? Japan wanted the Philippines to protect their southern flank and for agricultural purposes....they wanted Indonesia for oil.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G...
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...

      But you are correct.....Afgahnistan does not have oil, and the U.S. gets very little of its overall oil from Iraq.

      http://www.eia.gov/energy_in_b...
      http://news.mongabay.com/2007/...

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    5. Re:Countries without nuclear weapons get invaded by fsagx · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That episode guaranteed that no tin horn dictator will EVER give up their WMD program.

      That seems logical, but Assad did just that:

      Syria will give up control of chemical weapons

    6. Re:Countries without nuclear weapons get invaded by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The US has never, not once, invaded a country for oil and minerals.

      If you exclude Nicaragua, Colombia, Fiji, Honduras, Nicaragua, Panama, Nicaragua, Nicaragua, the Dominican Republic, Bolivia, and Nicaragua from your list...

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Wars

    7. Re:Countries without nuclear weapons get invaded by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Often by the United States of America or other western powers. When nations see that having a nuke prevents other nations from toppling them, nukes become vital for stability.

      Perhaps we should stop driving them towards nuclear weapons by invading them for oil and minerals.

      Perhaps the most salient point was made in another thread. The Ukraine, as one of the only nations to ever willingly give up a nuclear arsenal, is in the process of being invaded. I'm not sure if you care about the distinction that in this case it is Russia doing the invading and not the evil America or her western allies.

    8. Re:Countries without nuclear weapons get invaded by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Assad made a decision to ditch his chemical weapons in order to avoid military intervention by the USA.

      Not all "WMDs" are alike though. Nuclear weapons are weapons of state preservation in a way that Chemical weapons have never been. Chemical Weapons are nasty stuff, to be sure - but in terms of history, they've been more of a liability than an advantage. I can't think of any state that managed to stave off invasion because it had chemical weapons, and at least one was invaded in part because they were alleged to have chemical weapons.

      If anything, the lesson will be that Chemical Weapons are a bigger liability than benefit, and that Nuclear Weapons development is a gamble - but if it pays off, you're set. Once you have the bomb, you're not going to get attacked, though getting there is a dangerous proposition.

  2. Wait... what? by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How on earth does increased accuracy increase the temptation to use one? A nuke of any size going off *anywhere* as an act of war would immediately send up the balloon, and cause an all-out retaliation. Frig sakes, even Curtis LeMay knew that when he responded to Kennedy's request for a series of nuclear attack/response scenarios with a single puffed-out version of 'nuke them back to the effing stone age'.

    Seriously... if you use a nuke first these days, the entire planet will cut you off, if they don't come at you with everything they have. If you were nuked first, then the taboo has already been broken, and the world would almost expect you to unleash hell on whoever bombed you.

    I realize that global politics is a lot more subtle and complex than most folks realize, and maybe I'm wrong, but on this subject, it seems pretty damned cut and dried.

    --
    Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    1. Re:Wait... what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      How on earth does increased accuracy increase the temptation to use one? A nuke of any size going off *anywhere* as an act of war would immediately send up the balloon, and cause an all-out retaliation. Frig sakes, even Curtis LeMay knew that when he responded to Kennedy's request for a series of nuclear attack/response scenarios with a single puffed-out version of 'nuke them back to the effing stone age'.

      Seriously... if you use a nuke first these days, the entire planet will cut you off, if they don't come at you with everything they have. If you were nuked first, then the taboo has already been broken, and the world would almost expect you to unleash hell on whoever bombed you.

      I realize that global politics is a lot more subtle and complex than most folks realize, and maybe I'm wrong, but on this subject, it seems pretty damned cut and dried.

      You say these things as if they were fact. They are not, they are suppositions.
      The same way a defensive system can alter strategic balance, so can improved nuclear tipped missiles with highly accurate targetting systems. MAD is irrelevant in regional conflicts. Think about how close a nuclear exchange is possible between India and Pakistan. Or Israel targetting single military installations in Iran with bunker buster that are nuclear not conventional. Americans, Russians, French, British and the Cinese think of nuclear weapons as political weapons. Not military weapons. But if you manage to make a very precise low yield nuclear missile that incinerates let's say less than 1 km^2 it becomes by this simple performance an offensive weapon.Just like neutron bombs were all the rage in the seventies.

    2. Re:Wait... what? by chipschap · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is just another way to say "The US is bad and everyone else is oh-so-wonderful" which is a popular theme around /.

      I'm sorry America can't be as moral and upright as North Korea, Cuba, Russia, Iran, and all the other paragons of virtue that you love so much.

  3. This is a silly article by HBI · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Only in the eyes of an ivory tower theoretical type could the tripwire of nuclear weapons first use be "eased" by "low yield". No matter how low the yield, the secondary effects of the nuclear weapon remain the same. It remains a WMD. If someone lobs a "low yield" nuke at you, do you think you're going to blink an eye before using your own arsenal? The whole premise is silly.

    Nuclear disarmament is a fool's errand. The deterrent effect of a nuclear arsenal cannot easily be understated. All nations would aspire to it, if it were possible. They aren't going away, and reducing the arsenal below a certain point may actually be more destabilizing than maintaining more warheads. (see below)

    The construction of newer weapons has no impact on the equation, except on the counterforce mission. It might make it easier to destroy your opponent's arsenal, but you still retain the SSBN problem, meaning that in practical terms there is no difference. But newer anti-missile technologies have a similar but greater destabilizing effect on deterrence, as they CAN shoot down the SSBN-based missiles.

    tl;dr - article is a bunch of pointless hot air

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
  4. Nukes will always be in our back-pocket by TWX · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As long as other powers have nukes or have developed them and could develop them again then we'll have nukes. And as long as we have nukes then other countries will continue to have them as a deterrent against us.

    It doesn't matter how crude or sophisticated the device is- the two nukes that were used in conflict were just about as crude as one could get and they still each destroyed a city in one stroke.

    Science always progresses faster than poltiical thought. It's not usually science that uses the developments for ill intead of for benefit though, that's firmly in the realm of politics. That we've only used nuclear weapons in anger twice, effectively in one drawn-out moment in history, and have not used them cavalierly subsequently is hopefully proof that we're maturing, however slowly.

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  5. Nuclear Disarmament is Idiotic by tmosley · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Nuclear weapons prevent wars between great powers with great success. Only a complete idiot or a warmonger of the most evil type would call for nuclear disarmament. Of course, one of those groups is very useful for the other.

    If we didn't have all this nuclear non-proliferation nonsense, not only would the world be a peaceful place, but we'd have cheap, abundant nuclear power everywhere. There wouldn't be any "developing" countries--they would all be first world.

    Trying to have wars in a world with nuclear weapons is like trying to have gangs of roving banditos in a nation where everyone carries around rifles and handguns. It's just not possible, and anyone who tries won't last very long.

    1. Re:Nuclear Disarmament is Idiotic by dryeo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Trying to have wars in a world with nuclear weapons is like trying to have gangs of roving banditos in a nation where everyone carries around rifles and handguns. It's just not possible, and anyone who tries won't last very long.

      I guess that is why places like the middle east and Afghanistan are so peaceful.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  6. Disarmamant? by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I frankly don't believe that disarmament is ever going to happen because too many people want power. So, the nuclear powers are:

    France - never going to disarm because they've been invaded twice in living memory (just) and suffered awful consequences. Never going to happen again.

    USA - lolno.

    Russia - yeah Putin is totally going to disarm when everyone does because he's such a nice guy. I think he'd wet himself with glee if everyone else disarmed.

    India - not until Pakistan disarms, because Pakistan is way too unstable (and probably not even then).

    Pakistan - not until India disarms, and, well, who will be a serious power without them.

    North Korea - well, they're a total basket case of a country so whatever they do wouldn't surprise me. But evil dictators aren't know for relinquishing power.

    Iseael - disarm while they're surrounded by hostile nations who tried to wipe them off the map within living memory? Not likely.

    China - eeeynope. I think they're going to keep on growing their power, and not being uninvadable is not a good way to do that.

    UK - I don't think we actually will (I really hope).

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  7. John Oliver on Nuclear Weapons by codemachine · · Score: 3, Insightful

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    As usual, John Oliver has a great rant on the subject.

    Right now, the US has more nuclear weapons than they can safely take care of. Manning the silos is now a demoralizing job, because those people basically do nothing and yet the job is tremendously tedious. So it ends up being done by people who really shouldn't be in such an important position, and do not take enough care in their job, especially given the dangers if something were to go wrong.

    The US is the only country to drop a nuke on a civilian population. Everyone knows about when they dropped a couple on Japan, but few people remember when they accidentally dropped one on North Carolina. It did not explode, but it was one of a number of close calls that have happened over the years.

    As it is being managed now, the nuclear deterrent is more of a danger to the US than to anyone else, though it is also a danger to planet as a whole. I don't think a complete disarmament makes any sense in the short term, but a move towards scaling back to safe and sustainable levels would make sense. However, those that benefit from such massive and useless military spending are not about to let it happen without a fight.