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NSA: We Mulled Ending Phone Program Before Edward Snowden Leaks

Mark Wilson writes Edward Snowden is heralded as both a hero and villain. A privacy vigilante and a traitor. It just depends who you ask. The revelations he made about the NSA's surveillance programs have completely changed the face of online security, and changed the way everyone looks at the internet and privacy. But just before the whistle was blown, it seems that the NSA was considering bringing its telephone data collection program to an end. Intelligence officials were, behind the scenes, questioning whether the benefits of gathering counter-terrorism information justified the colossal costs involved. Then Snowden went public and essentially forced the agency's hand.

20 of 140 comments (clear)

  1. Not everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The revelations did not change the way *I* looked at the Internet and privacy. It merely confirmed my well-justified suspicions.

    I think the same statement can be made by most people on slashdot, and by most technicians in general.

    The only people who were surprised were the technically ignorant.

    1. Re: Not everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Or those who thought the US intelligence agencies were following the constitution.

      It was suspected, but even most of the people who were considered tin foil mad hatters were lowballing the amount of surveillance.

    2. Re: Not everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Why would anyone be so naive as to believe that a "goddamned piece of paper" would curtail this?

      The *only* force that prevents powerful institutions from abusing their power is public accountability. Any talk about oversight committees and the state of the law is pure air.

      If they are operating outside of the scrutiny of the public eye, it is *guaranteed* that they are doing something nefarious. That is how power works. To believe otherwise is to misunderstand human nature.

    3. Re:Not everyone by buchner.johannes · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The revelations did not change the way *I* looked at the Internet and privacy. It merely confirmed my well-justified suspicions. I think the same statement can be made by most people on slashdot, and by most technicians in general. The only people who were surprised were the technically ignorant.

      There is a difference between suspecting and being looked at as paranoid, and everyone knowing something as a fact.

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    4. Re: Not everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      How old are you? Because I learned about ECHELON 15 years ago (in computer magazines at the bookstore), and there were already talks about intercepting and accessing pretty much everything, large data stores, keyword analysis, etc. And I was just a slightly-geeky teen discovering the Internet 'underground' back then. From France. Even the EU was publicly investigating ECHELON around this time.

      Wikipedia tells me there has been some amount of public discussion about it for the past 20 years, and the program dates back to 50 years ago, so it's very easy to imagine much progress has been made since then.

      Even back then, I wouldn't have called them 'suspicions'... No need to be paranoid to understand how obvious it was, in a large part at least, and not just from the USA of course...

      One of the main issues with all our problems, is that people often 'forget' for how long they knew about them (even when nothing was ever really done to try and solve them), media always repaint them as 'news' for business purpose (and, it is easy to think, for more global manipulation), and new generations think they are new problems they just discovered themselves... It's easier to consider accepting to do nothing about recent problems, than understanding how everything and everyone has been so thoroughly covered in shit for so long and try to do anything about it.

    5. Re:Not everyone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The revelations did not change the way *I* looked at the Internet and privacy. It merely confirmed my well-justified suspicions. I think the same statement can be made by most people on slashdot, and by most technicians in general. The only people who were surprised were the technically ignorant.

      There is a difference between suspecting and being looked at as paranoid, and everyone knowing something as a fact.

      There is?

      Seems 99.999% of the population did exactly FUCK ALL after Snowden about their online privacy.

      Even when the tinfoil hatters are proven dead-nuts right, people don't give a shit. Watch and see as they wet their fucking pants over the first lady Prez, in all her corrupt glory.

      People are not just stupid. They fucking stupid. They're not even smart enough to know why they should give a shit.

    6. Re: Not everyone by bhcompy · · Score: 4, Informative

      Err, not the only force. Revolution works pretty well on occasion, too.

    7. Re: Not everyone by twitnutttt · · Score: 5, Informative

      Intelligence officials were, behind the scenes, questioning whether the benefits of gathering counter-terrorism information justified the colossal costs involved. Then Snowden went public and essentially forced the agency's hand.

      Forced their hand? Last time I checked, they are: 1) still operating the program, and 2) tenaciously defending it.

      For shame!

    8. Re: Not everyone by rtb61 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Who gives a crap about the phone shit. What it revealed was that US government executives routinely lie to the public and attack members of the public with slander and false arrest when members of the public try to expose the criminal activities of above the law government departments.

      The US department of State, the CIA, the NSA, the Secret Service and even the FBI at the highest levels all routinely consider themselves above the law. This horrifically extends to the corporations that controls which politicians get elected and who will be selected to take the highest administrative positions in government not as agents of the public but as agents of the corporations who arranged for their appointment.

      The US government has become an empty teleprompter reading mouthpiece for those corporations who pay to get their colluding and conspiring pet politicians elected. The Snowden leaks exposed the underlying reality of how far the Public Relations show of the US government differs from corporate controlled reality of government agencies.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. This should be the common case, though. by shess · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Big deal. If you are running a program which costs money or time, you should be considering whether it is worth running periodically regardless of whether it's a program to collect phone data or bringing donuts to the office. If you aren't revisiting that decision, you're doing your job badly.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they're doing a good job. Just that "Oh, yeah, we considered cancelling that program" is a stupid comment which doesn't excuse anything. Most likely they kept the program more because you don't give up power and money once you have it, and they really didn't care about efficacy.

    1. Re:This should be the common case, though. by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you are running a program which costs money or time, you should be considering whether it is worth running periodically regardless of whether it's a program to collect phone data or bringing donuts to the office. If you aren't revisiting that decision, you're doing your job badly.

      Besides, I don't buy the line that Snowden "forced the agency's hand". I call bullshit. They could have done any number of things at that point: modify their program, reduce their program, or even eliminate it entirely. What they did instead was double down. That was THEIR decision, nobody else's. Trying to cast blame doesn't change that.

    2. Re:This should be the common case, though. by martin-boundary · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not a stupid comment, it's a comment designed to lull credulous people into thinking they're less evil than they really are. That's evil in itself of course, but is par for the course for a three letter agency - goes without saying, really.

  3. Re:Sure you did.. by TheGavster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Even if the NSA was considering terminating these programs due to cost, that's not the same as terminating them because domestic surveillance exceeds the NSA's mandate. It's kind of like saying that we don't jail people for homosexuality because the prisons would cost too much: while the argument does end the injustice in the short term, it leaves open the possibility of it returning in a way that a moral argument doesn't.

    --
    "Because Science" is one step from "Because old book". Try "Because of my experiment testing my falsifiable assertion".
  4. Re:Sure you did.. by infolation · · Score: 5, Funny

    I was contemplating ending my burglary career, but one of my accomplices grassed me up to the cops. So I sent the lads after him, and then decided my illegal housebreaking spree must continue with renewed vigour.

    The moral? Snitches get stitches.

  5. I mulled laying off soda before I got fat. by hey! · · Score: 5, Funny

    I also mulled laying off gambling before I went broke.

    Therefore I am, morally speaking, thin and rich.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  6. So now we're supposed to believe by presidenteloco · · Score: 4, Insightful

    that it's stopped.

    Mm hmmm.

    (google "disinformation")

    --

    Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
  7. uh huh by shentino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Nice to know that the value of american citizen's privacy never factored in, just the cost to the federal budget.

  8. But Then We Said "Nahhhh!" by l0ungeb0y · · Score: 4, Funny

    Bro-fisted, chest-bumped and laughed our asses off! I mean, stop doing what we do best? That'll be the day.

  9. Clapper's Girlfriend by Tokolosh · · Score: 4, Funny

    "He promised he wouldn't cum in my mouth! Promised!"

    --
    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
  10. Re:Told my girlfriend the same thing about the che by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, the logic of the article is "now that she knows that I cheated I am forced to continue cheating forever, because F**K HER what makes her think she has a say. Because the guy who told on me is a traitor and we can't reward traitors. Also I'll send him to the hospital if he comes out of hiding"

    That's the logic of the article.