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Amid Controversy, Construction of Telescope In Hawaii Halted

Posted by samzenpus on from the no-telescope-for-you dept.

An anonymous reader sends word that Hawaii Gov. David Ige has asked for a week-long hold in the construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope atop Mauna Kea. "After more than a week of demonstrations and dozens of arrests, Hawaii Gov. David Ige said Tuesday that the company building one of the world's largest telescopes atop Hawaii's Mauna Kea has agreed to his request to halt construction for a week. 'They have responded to my request and on behalf of the president of the University and the Office of Hawaiian Affairs have agreed to a time out on the project, and there will be no construction activities this week,' Ige said at a news conference. Thirty Meter Telescope is constructing the telescope on land that is held sacred to some Native Hawaiians. Scientists say the location is ideal for the telescope, which could allow them to see into the earliest years of the universe. Ige said he hopes the temporary pause in construction will allow the interested parties to have more discussions about the project. Native Hawaiian groups have been protesting the construction of the telescope since its inception last year."

11 of 228 comments (clear)

  1. NIMBY strikes again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The natives should have said something before the Mauna Kea Observatory was constructed in 1968. Making all this noise now is decades too late.

    1. Re:NIMBY strikes again by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Or they could just go fuck off.

      --
      Support my political activism on Patreon.
    2. Re:NIMBY strikes again by pla · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You have given the single, most concise answer in this discussion.

      We have stopped building an expensive modern scientific instrument that will improve all of humanity, because of fucking ghosts. And not even ghosts in the "poltergeist" sense, but ghosts in the "my great grandaddy told me Jesus cries when you eat a ham and cheese sandwich" sense - Such complete nonsense that any adult should feel ashamed that such idiotic words might come out of their mouth in voicing their objections to this telescope.

      The sooner we as a species stop humoring these morons, the better.

      / Not an atheist.
      // Not psychotic enough, though, to pretend I know god's will about big rock, meteorites, walls, and mountain tops.
      /// Also not just "pro science, so fuck you" - I'd say the same about building a Walmart in the same spot.

    3. Re:NIMBY strikes again by jythie · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It is easy to be poor when someone comes in with an army and takes all your shit away.

    4. Re:NIMBY strikes again by radarskiy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "a quarter of the state the feds have given to Indian reservations"

      This is an interesting use of the word "given".

    5. Re:NIMBY strikes again by painandgreed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We have stopped building an expensive modern scientific instrument that will improve all of humanity, because of fucking ghosts. And not even ghosts in the "poltergeist" sense, but ghosts in the "my great grandaddy told me Jesus cries when you eat a ham and cheese sandwich" sense - Such complete nonsense that any adult should feel ashamed that such idiotic words might come out of their mouth in voicing their objections to this telescope.

      I suspect that like most religious thing, it is just a justification for their behavior. In this case, they're still pissed about having their island and land taken from them in a coup sponsored by the American government in favor of corporations against their sovereign nation, the mess it has made for them since, and the general disrespect they get from everybody else. I have enough friends from there to know that if they said "it's part of our heritage" and you said "Boo hoo, fucking ghosts." Whether they believed in those ghosts or not, you'd get punched in the face because you generally being disrespectful to people who are complaining about people being disrespectful to them.

    6. Re:NIMBY strikes again by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Native Hawaiians are mostly anti-technology, anti-progress, anti-growth, anti-business, and anti-modern-world.

      I want to point out here that the opposition is a vocal minority; there are a lot of Native Hawaiians who support the observatory. I don't live on the Big Island myself, but from talking to people who know a lot more on the topic than I do, it is my understanding that most Native Hawaiians are in support of the TMT. Most people in the Hilo area support the TMT, and recognize that it will being in economic, cultural, and educational benefits, as well as prestige and international recognition. It is the extremists who are protesting.

      I can see where you are coming from though, and lets face it, there is a not insignificant segment of the Hawaiian community that really does seem to have some problems with the extreme anti-progress lot, especially with the Hawaiian independence activists who will stir up shit at any opportunity. These people build themselves around and value one thing and one thing only: being Hawaiian. That's it. How many cultures in history find success after getting so caught up in their own culture that they stop doing anything else? Not many. And yet, that is exactly the path these protestors want to take.

      There is a great opportunity here for astronomy research, but do they want Hawai'i known for astronomy? Nope, just 'culture'. There is ongoing controversy about biotechnology here, with genetically engineered taro (University of Hawai'i developed, before anyone invokes that conspiracy) being banned previously for 'religious reasons' by exactly the same people now protesting the observatory. Do they want Hawai'i know for biotech? Nope, just 'culture'. And as you mentioned, there was the geothermal issue. Do they want that? Nope, just 'culture'. Every time, it is the same people protesting. It's like they want to kick out as much important things, things that actually matter and have social, educational, and economic value, until the islands are left with nothing...nothing but them of course.

      The thing to remember is that the independence activists like to kick up a big fuss about anything they can to draw attention to themselves. And they don't care what the long term effects are. They don't care about a thriving Hawai'i...oh they say they do but their actions say otherwise. What they care about is bringing power and influence to themselves, and they find plenty of useful idiots along the way, both angry Hawaiians who have been told that all their problem are the fault of the US and they would be so much better under a new monarchy as well as hippie dipshits so overcome by white guilt that they bafflingly enough think a reestablishment of a race based Hawaiian Kingdom where they would be essentially second class citizens would, somehow, be a good thing. There is, as you see everywhere else, politics underlining anti-science, and in this case pretty nasty politics at that.

      Personally, I'd be on the first plane to the mainland in the unlikely event any of these assholes ever got any real power. Their beliefs are simply unacceptable.

    7. Re:NIMBY strikes again by pla · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "In the early 1960s, the Hawaii Island Chamber of Commerce began encouraging astronomical development of Mauna Kea, as an economic stimulus [...] UH rebuilt its small astronomy department into a new Institute for Astronomy, and in 1968 the Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources gave it a 65-year lease for all land within a 4 km (2.5 mi) radius of its telescope

      Yes, I would have a problem with you randomly appearing and taking a dump on my front lawn, because I pay the government roughly 1.5% of the value of my home every year for the continued privilege of having the mostly-exclusive right to decide who gets to defecate on my lawn.

      If, however, I put out an ad for someone to come fertilize my lawn with human excrement, and awarded you an exclusive contract to do the job for the next 65 years... Well then, I wouldn't really have much to right to bitch about you doing exactly what I asked you to, now would I?

      Now git offa mah lawn, whippersnapper!

  2. Telescope == Sacred by Camel+Pilot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What could be more honoring, holy and sacred than a telescope peering out into universe?

  3. Re:The tarnishing of spirits really helps by crashumbc · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The land is on top of a dormant volcano away from city lights. and the "bowl" at the top makes the perfect base for it...

  4. Re:Hawaii by ChromeAeonium · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is the most likely reason. You see a lot of the same people protesting this as you see against a lot of other things (like geothermal power, biotechnology, tourism, ect.). They don't care what they protest, as long as they make some noise to draw attention to their cause of re-establishing the Hawaiian monarchy...with themselves as the new kings no doubt...and recreating the Hawaiian kingdom for people with Hawaiian blood. That, of course, is an inherently racist proposition. And I've snooped around those independence rallies before; I've seen these Hawaiian community leaders and independence activists play the race card in manners that, quite frankly, I think are unacceptable in an enlightened society.

    They're people who live in the past, and play identity politics and pointless localism to enrich themselves by giving people something to hate on, no matter the cost (really, no different than you see in the South with those 'The Confederate States will rise again!' assholes). Of course, the Hawaiian nationalists don't care if this place goes to shit after they do as much damage as possible to achieve their goals, as long as they're the kings of shit mountain, and tough luck for everyone else, including no doubt their supporters who would then be in a much worse off position without the US and all the economic drivers the nationalists would like to see gone. It's really sad that anyone gives these assholes the time of day.