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Amid Controversy, Construction of Telescope In Hawaii Halted
An anonymous reader sends word that Hawaii Gov. David Ige has asked for a week-long hold in the construction of the Thirty Meter Telescope atop Mauna Kea. "After more than a week of demonstrations and dozens of arrests, Hawaii Gov. David Ige said Tuesday that the company building one of the world's largest telescopes atop Hawaii's Mauna Kea has agreed to his request to halt construction for a week. 'They have responded to my request and on behalf of the president of the University and the Office of Hawaiian Affairs have agreed to a time out on the project, and there will be no construction activities this week,' Ige said at a news conference. Thirty Meter Telescope is constructing the telescope on land that is held sacred to some Native Hawaiians. Scientists say the location is ideal for the telescope, which could allow them to see into the earliest years of the universe. Ige said he hopes the temporary pause in construction will allow the interested parties to have more discussions about the project. Native Hawaiian groups have been protesting the construction of the telescope since its inception last year."
What could be more honoring, holy and sacred than a telescope peering out into universe?
The land is on top of a dormant volcano away from city lights. and the "bowl" at the top makes the perfect base for it...
The natives should have said something before the Mauna Kea Observatory was constructed in 1968.
Most likely, they did complain. But the complaints were drowned out by all their complaining about everything else. Native Hawaiians are mostly anti-technology, anti-progress, anti-growth, anti-business, and anti-modern-world. They generally oppose anything that changes anything. They are also anti-education, with some of the worst schools in America, which just propagates the problem on to the next generation. The Big Island has a higher proportion of natives, which makes the problem there even worse than on Oahu. For instance, Hawaii has some of the best geothermal energy resources anywhere, and some of the highest electricity prices in the world. But geothermal energy is blocked because it "steals the breath of Pele", despite the fact that almost no one actually believes in Pele anymore. It is just used as an excuse to block progress. Oh, and one other thing: after blocking businesses from growing, electricity from being generated, and schools from being funded, they also complain that there are no jobs.
This is more likely an expression of Hawiian nationalism which has been on the rise in recent years.
In some cases it has crossed the line into race hatred as the Southern Poverty Law Center noted a few years back.
And there are several independence groups. China has even offered to arm them.
I live in Hawaii and am excited for the new 30 meter telescope. There are currently 13 telescopes at the summit of Mauna Kea.
https://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/mko...
This project has been in the works for 7 years, The local population that is against the building of this telescope has had that long to protest, but didn't actually start protesting until the project was already underway.
From what I hear on my Facebook feed from my Hawaiian friends is that they oppose the building of this new telescope because they consider Mauna kea a sacred place, as well as the sheer size of this new telescope.
The summit is sacred to ancient Hawaiians, so much that a kapu (Ancient Hawaiian law) was made that only important tribal chiefs were allowed up at the summit. (Breaking Kapu usually meant death).
So in old Hawaii only a select few were allowed up on the volcano. I don't know why anyone is complaining. in new Hawaii anyone can visit the summit and see the majestic views of the island as well as some amazing star-gazing at night.
I don't speak up on Facebook even though many of my friends are asking me to sign a petition to stop the building of the telescope as well as protesting locally (I am on Maui). Its hard since most of my friends are not very techy or interested much in science. I keep my mouth shut since I fear I will be ostracized for speaking my true opinion.
Only complaint I have, I really wish most of these telescopes were open to the public. I have never had the opportunity to look through anything bigger than a backyard telescope and it would be amazing to be able to see what a thirty meter telescope can do.
You have given the single, most concise answer in this discussion.
// Not psychotic enough, though, to pretend I know god's will about big rock, meteorites, walls, and mountain tops.
/// Also not just "pro science, so fuck you" - I'd say the same about building a Walmart in the same spot.
We have stopped building an expensive modern scientific instrument that will improve all of humanity, because of fucking ghosts. And not even ghosts in the "poltergeist" sense, but ghosts in the "my great grandaddy told me Jesus cries when you eat a ham and cheese sandwich" sense - Such complete nonsense that any adult should feel ashamed that such idiotic words might come out of their mouth in voicing their objections to this telescope.
The sooner we as a species stop humoring these morons, the better.
/ Not an atheist.
"a quarter of the state the feds have given to Indian reservations"
This is an interesting use of the word "given".
The worst part of the reporting, and what nobody really wants to talk about, is the reason that the county and state pressured TMT for a 1-week hiatus - this is the week of the Merrie Monarch Hula Festival in Hilo, a time when hula halau (schools) from all over the state and several other places all converge on the Big Island. There's no way local authorities wanted to have images of 13-yr-old girls in hula costumes being arrested on the Maunakea summit. Bad for tourism, ya know...
Just for the record: none of the spills have contacted the earth. Those are "spills" like when you spill coffee on your desk. All mirror cleaning water is trucked off the mountain. There are no palila birds or mamane trees at 13,000 ft. The TMT does not plan to have a cesspool. The EIS calls for a sealed building, everything except photons are trucked in and trucked out. There has been over a decade of very detailed planning and study focused on mitigating impact from all observatories and all of these documents are freely available online.
We have stopped building an expensive modern scientific instrument that will improve all of humanity, because of fucking ghosts. And not even ghosts in the "poltergeist" sense, but ghosts in the "my great grandaddy told me Jesus cries when you eat a ham and cheese sandwich" sense - Such complete nonsense that any adult should feel ashamed that such idiotic words might come out of their mouth in voicing their objections to this telescope.
I suspect that like most religious thing, it is just a justification for their behavior. In this case, they're still pissed about having their island and land taken from them in a coup sponsored by the American government in favor of corporations against their sovereign nation, the mess it has made for them since, and the general disrespect they get from everybody else. I have enough friends from there to know that if they said "it's part of our heritage" and you said "Boo hoo, fucking ghosts." Whether they believed in those ghosts or not, you'd get punched in the face because you generally being disrespectful to people who are complaining about people being disrespectful to them.
"Someone else's land?" I have to believe they own the land there. Whether the natives recognize that or not, however...
You know, the natives might have some legitimate disagreements about land ownership. Just because the traditional religion is used to block projects like this doesn't mean that it is the root cause. Religion may just have been legally expedient at first and then grew into a self-perpetuating thing.
Another poster was referring to the "corruption" in Hawaii, but a brief read of the link above would suggest that US financial interests have been corrupting Hawaii for a long time. And its funny how some of the descriptions of Hawaiians on this thread sound just like descriptions of Native Americans, African Americans, and just about any ethnic group that has been traumatised by rich white people over the last few centuries...
You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
Native Hawaiians are mostly anti-technology, anti-progress, anti-growth, anti-business, and anti-modern-world.
I want to point out here that the opposition is a vocal minority; there are a lot of Native Hawaiians who support the observatory. I don't live on the Big Island myself, but from talking to people who know a lot more on the topic than I do, it is my understanding that most Native Hawaiians are in support of the TMT. Most people in the Hilo area support the TMT, and recognize that it will being in economic, cultural, and educational benefits, as well as prestige and international recognition. It is the extremists who are protesting.
I can see where you are coming from though, and lets face it, there is a not insignificant segment of the Hawaiian community that really does seem to have some problems with the extreme anti-progress lot, especially with the Hawaiian independence activists who will stir up shit at any opportunity. These people build themselves around and value one thing and one thing only: being Hawaiian. That's it. How many cultures in history find success after getting so caught up in their own culture that they stop doing anything else? Not many. And yet, that is exactly the path these protestors want to take.
There is a great opportunity here for astronomy research, but do they want Hawai'i known for astronomy? Nope, just 'culture'. There is ongoing controversy about biotechnology here, with genetically engineered taro (University of Hawai'i developed, before anyone invokes that conspiracy) being banned previously for 'religious reasons' by exactly the same people now protesting the observatory. Do they want Hawai'i know for biotech? Nope, just 'culture'. And as you mentioned, there was the geothermal issue. Do they want that? Nope, just 'culture'. Every time, it is the same people protesting. It's like they want to kick out as much important things, things that actually matter and have social, educational, and economic value, until the islands are left with nothing...nothing but them of course.
The thing to remember is that the independence activists like to kick up a big fuss about anything they can to draw attention to themselves. And they don't care what the long term effects are. They don't care about a thriving Hawai'i...oh they say they do but their actions say otherwise. What they care about is bringing power and influence to themselves, and they find plenty of useful idiots along the way, both angry Hawaiians who have been told that all their problem are the fault of the US and they would be so much better under a new monarchy as well as hippie dipshits so overcome by white guilt that they bafflingly enough think a reestablishment of a race based Hawaiian Kingdom where they would be essentially second class citizens would, somehow, be a good thing. There is, as you see everywhere else, politics underlining anti-science, and in this case pretty nasty politics at that.
Personally, I'd be on the first plane to the mainland in the unlikely event any of these assholes ever got any real power. Their beliefs are simply unacceptable.
"In the early 1960s, the Hawaii Island Chamber of Commerce began encouraging astronomical development of Mauna Kea, as an economic stimulus [...] UH rebuilt its small astronomy department into a new Institute for Astronomy, and in 1968 the Hawaii Department of Land and Natural Resources gave it a 65-year lease for all land within a 4 km (2.5 mi) radius of its telescope
Yes, I would have a problem with you randomly appearing and taking a dump on my front lawn, because I pay the government roughly 1.5% of the value of my home every year for the continued privilege of having the mostly-exclusive right to decide who gets to defecate on my lawn.
If, however, I put out an ad for someone to come fertilize my lawn with human excrement, and awarded you an exclusive contract to do the job for the next 65 years... Well then, I wouldn't really have much to right to bitch about you doing exactly what I asked you to, now would I?
Now git offa mah lawn, whippersnapper!