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Reason: How To Break the Internet (in a Bad Way)

Widespread public sentiment favors the FCC's move to impose rules intended to establish "net neutrality"; an anonymous reader writes with a skeptical viewpoint: "No decent person," write Geoffrey Manne and Ben Sperry in a special issue of Reason, "should be *for* net neutrality." Across the board, the authors write, letting the FCC dictate ISP business practices will result in everything they say they're trying to avoid. For instance, one of the best ways to route around a big firm's brand recognition is to buy special treatment in the form of promotions, product placement and the like (payola, after all, is how rock and roll circumvented major label contempt for the genre). That will almost certainly be forbidden under the FCC's version of neutrality.

17 of 489 comments (clear)

  1. Reason: for corporations, by corporations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Reason(tm) is the reason I do not call myself a libertarian.

    1. Re:Reason: for corporations, by corporations by quintessencesluglord · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is one of the areas Reason (and quite a few libertarians to boot) have shot themselves in the foot.

      They don't cite specific instances of where Title II will bring about the doomsday scenarios they paint, and instead engage in FUD over any regulation (which, contrary to popular claim, libertarians should be for as long as they are sensible and fair and needed).

      Instead of railing against the corporate welfare telecos have gotten or that they have gotten immunity for illegal wiretapping, they planted their flag here, which apparently works for this illiterate brand of libertarianism, and have completely omitted the question that brought this about in the first place: customers not receiving their advertized bandwith.

      I mean, they open with a quote from Hayek. Except Hayek was also a proponent of basic income and land value taxes.

      Imagine Reason discussing that other aspect of libertarian thought.

      Not bloody likely.

    2. Re:Reason: for corporations, by corporations by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 5, Informative

      You mean like Verizon extorting money from Netflix, you mean that EXAMPLE.

    3. Re:Reason: for corporations, by corporations by Comrade+Ogilvy · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The article is a really painful read that takes forever to get to the heart of its points, which seem to be:

      In fact, ISP price discrimination is as likely to help new entrants as hurt them. Non-neutrality offers startups the potential to buy priority access, thus overcoming the inherent disadvantage of newness. With a neutral Internet, on the other hand, the advantages of incumbency can't be routed around by buying a leg-up in speed, access, or promotion.

      That an incumbent content provider might enter into an agreement with an ISP to gain advantage over its smaller competitors in a non-neutral environment may be a reason to scrutinize such agreements under existing antitrust laws. For instance, if an ISP with dominant market share refused to give access to online content that competed with its own, antitrust law might look askance at such conduct. But it doesn't justify presumptively hamstringing an ISP's commercial arrangements when such conduct isn't remotely typical."

      These are actually gobsmacking arguments for any serious libertarian to make. First of all, the idea that a new service should rightly throw money at the problem because new guys cannot compete by merely being simply better on an even playing field completely demolishes the heart of libertarian theory. Second of all, "gee, the gov't might save us from this abuse with antitrust laws" is an endorsement of the idea gov't should solve these kinds of problems. If antitrust law is good, perhaps net neutrality rules would be better? You cannot fall back on gov't competence in an argument against gov't oversight.

      But for me, neither argument matters, even if they were correct. The real problem is the ISPs are making clear promises to their customers, and then they are trying to shake down the content providers with the threat of failing to meet the customer's reasonable expectations, based on what is written in the contract. When I pay for a promise for bandwidth, I want that bandwidth. I do not want the ISP to make secret re-negotiations about what bandwidth really means.

    4. Re:Reason: for corporations, by corporations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a self-avowed Anarchist (from which Libertarianism descends), I disagree. Even though I know Anarchism as a general philosophy is completely incapable of viable application in any significant context.

      The problem is ideologues. Political philosophies like libertarianism are useful. They distill specific, beneficial perspectives, often informed by historical experiences. They're schools that teach how to use a particular tool, or set of tools. For example, market capitalism, which despite the obvious problems has proven to be the best tool for increasing the _absolute_ wealth of everybody.

      But anybody who let's their political philosophy dictate policy, divorced from pragmatism or other considerations, is just plain stupid.

      I fully support net neutrality because we have plenty of evidence and experience that suggests we need it in this case. Reality should always trump ideology. Of course, maybe net neutrality will lead to a parade of horrible, unintended consequences. But, again, when we have substantial real-world evidence counseling a particular policy, that should trump almost every other consideration.

      (Some people will shout, "slippery slope!" But that's an informal fallacy. I've never seen somebody argue slippery slope and back it up with the necessary points which could make it a proper argument.)

    5. Re:Reason: for corporations, by corporations by quintessencesluglord · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Which, again, is libertarians unable to differentiate between bad regulation and no regulation, and engaging in FUD.

      So please, enlighten me: how will Title II regulation lead to DMCA, SOPA, or hate speech codes? If anything, Title II ensures those things won't happen because, get this, the internet is already regulated (now) under some of the loosest standards under law. Any new regulations coming down the pike will affect much much more than the internet, since it will have to cover all of Title II, and will be a bigger fight.

      In fact, I'm rather interested in how Title II will affect mass surveillance, as the laws concerning are much more stringent.

      As with most anything, it's a question of tradeoffs. As libertarian utopia isn't coming any time soon, it might behoove libertarians to consider which ones they are willing to make, instead of this thinly veiled corporate pandering of a very narrow reading of libertarian philosophy.

    6. Re:Reason: for corporations, by corporations by Grishnakh · · Score: 5, Interesting

      All that is correct, but you're also forgetting WWI and WWII: before this, the US still wasn't that industrialized, though it certainly had become somewhat industrialized during the Gilded Age and Industrial Revolution. After WWII, it was the last industrialized power left standing without any significant major wartime damage, and had massively industrialized itself for the war effort. After the dust settled, American industry got extremely rich helping to rebuild everyone else. It's taken decades for that to finally wear off.

      Basically, the US won the lottery.

    7. Re:Reason: for corporations, by corporations by Anguirel · · Score: 5, Informative

      Right -- the problem here is we have private companies that have a mandate for Universal Coverage, and receive tax-money to provide that Coverage, but then fail to live up to the mandate and instead cherry-pick easy spots to provide coverage while making record profits by pocketing the difference. Further, when they are called on this, they resist any attempt to rescind that monopoly and recover that tax money to put it towards actually filling in those gaps (i.e. a public utility) and providing the agreed upon coverage, and the state (likely in collusion with said companies) refuses to actually prosecute them for contract violations (so the existing legal remedies are not, in fact, working at all).

      For example: New Jersey and NJ Bell (now NJ Verizon) - commitment to 100% broadband coverage (which specifically defines broadband as 45Mbps) by 2010, took the money, failed to even come close to compliance, posted hefty profit (so obviously not putting that money into infrastructure improvements to fulfill said contract), and a few years after the contract end-date got the goal post moved to allow 4G coverage and significantly slower capacity lines to count instead of being required to either pay back the monies taken or to fulfill the original deal.

      --
      ~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
      QA: The art of telling someone that their baby is ugly without getting punched.
  2. Screw that by afidel · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I don't want ANYONE buying promotions into my IP stream! I want my ISP to do their freaking job and shift packets from the source to me, without molestation and without interest or undue visibility into the contents.

    --
    There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
  3. The internet is not a broadcast medium. by Zeek40 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "(payola, after all, is how rock and roll circumvented major label contempt for the genre)" It's difficult to take someone's opinions about net neturality seriously when they don't understand the difference between broadcast media and on-demand media.

    1. Re:The internet is not a broadcast medium. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's even worse when their argument is based around the assumption that Payola is a good thing.

  4. Payola by Chacharoo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Payola was and is a clearly illegal practice. If corporations are choosing to perpetrate something like payola and say its "because of net neutrality", that would be their rationalization for having broken the law, rather than evidence of a bad law. If there were no payola in radio, God forbid, then DJs would themselves have to choose music based on how cool or groovy or mellifluous it is, rather than on who was kicking them back the most.

  5. Re:The internet has just become Ma Bell by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, we supported the FCC action because the ISPs left us no choice.

    Ideally, I wouldn't want the government to get involved. However, the ISPs have a monopoly on wired, broadband Internet access (duopoly in some areas). If you want wired, broadband Internet access, you need to take what BIG_CABLE_ISP will give you. If communities aren't served by BIG_CABLE_ISP or BIG_TELECOM_ISP, they can't form their own broadband efforts because said big companies will lobby state legislators to ban these efforts as "bad for competition." (As in, should they ever decide to expand into these areas, they would actually have competition and that's bad.)

    This still wouldn't have been enough to support FCC action, but the ISPs got greedy. They saw Google, Netflix, and others making money online and thought "people are using our connections to buy stuff so why doesn't some of that money go to us?!!!" (Completely ignoring that some does in the form of ISP service bills.) They tried to charge companies extra to reach customers via "fast lanes" lest their data be regulated to an unusable slow lane.

    In a perfect world, customers could just vote with their wallets and switch ISPs, but they couldn't due to the monopoly situation above. So the FCC stepped in. First, they instituted extremely weak rules that would basically allow the ISPs to do whatever they wanted. Verizon took offense to there being even weak rules and sued. They won, but the courts told the FCC "if you want to do this, you need to use Title II." So in winning, Verizon actually lost.

    In short, we didn't want to go to the FCC. We just wanted things to operate the way they always had been operating. But the ISPs' greed forced action and then Verizon's greed forced stronger action.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
  6. "Reason" is a publisher of nonsense by swschrad · · Score: 5, Insightful

    bad writers paid by bad people to promulgate bad policies to screw almost everybody. that is the billionnaires trying to take back the plantations from the 99%.

    if you read that fishwrap, do exactly the opposite.

    --
    if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
    1. Re:"Reason" is a publisher of nonsense by MobSwatter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Break the internet? Oh that's easy, just put a dysfunctional government in charge of it. Now let me see where to find one of those... or rather, where could one not find one today?

  7. Re:I can summarize article by grimmjeeper · · Score: 5, Insightful

    #3 is what mystifies me about the libertarian mindset. They believe that everything the government does will fail in one way or another (in spite of evidence that it doesn't always screw up and sometimes produces positive net outcomes) yet they think that private industry is universally benevolent and will always do what the consumer wants in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

    I just don't get the disconnect from reality there.

  8. Bullshit ... by gstoddart · · Score: 5, Insightful

    letting the FCC dictate ISP business practices will result in

    The internet not being beholden to ISP business practices.

    ISPs are, and should be treated as, conduits of data which has nothing at all to do with their damned business practices.

    Egged on by a bootleggers-and-Baptists coalition of rent-seeking industry groups and corporation-hating progressives

    Or, you know, supported by corporate ass kissers who would have us believe that whatever the fuck corporations want is somehow good for us, when it's only good for corporations.
    But the net neutrality movement has had less to do with class struggle than with the familiar delusion of technocrats everywhere: that government can "design" a better future if only it pulls the right levers.
    Ah, here goes more bullshit and antigovernment everyone-but-me-is-elitist crap which suggests that preventing companies from acting like douchebags is crippling to companies who want to be douchebags.

    Look, this is libertarian economic drivel which says corporate rent-seeking assholes should be able to extort a cut of someone because they have a successful product, and that it is really important for ISPs to be able to spy on your content to maximize their ad revenue.

    For instance, one of the best ways to route around a big firm's brand recognition is to buy special treatment in the form of promotions, product placement and the like (payola, after all, is how rock and roll circumvented major label contempt for the genre). That will almost certainly be forbidden under the FCC's version of neutrality.

    Yes, because we don't want a fucking internet where you have to be kicking up some payola to some greedy asshole who did nothing other than say "nice innovation you have there, shame if something happened to it".

    You know what needs to change? Companies who sell the newest stuff as if they really have it, refuse to invest in upgrading their infrastructure to keep it relevant, and then piss and moan when their outdated business model of "do nothing and keep charging more" proves to be useless.

    This whole article is written by a corporate apologist who is changing the definitions of "innovation" and "stale business model" to make it sound like encumbant ISPs who are too lazy/cheap to be able to to charge a toll (in the form of payola or blocking traffic) so they can piggy back on the success of companies who actually make stuff.

    This is entirely about saying "we should be able to gouge NetFlix, because they've come up with something cool and we haven't".

    This is arguing for the right to be a parasite middleman, by companies who are otherwise collapsing under their own crushing weight of incompetence, laziness, and the feeling of being entitled to revenue they do not generate.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.