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SpaceX To Try a First Stage Recovery Again On April 13

schwit1 writes: In its next launch on Monday, SpaceX will once again try to safely land its first stage on an ocean barge, allowing the reuse of that stage in later flights. "Following first stage separation, thrusters flip the rocket so the engines are pointing in the direction of travel. First, there’s a boostback burn to refine the rocket’s trajectory, causing the rocket to fly through its own exhaust (the space shuttle's risky Return-to-Launch-Site abort scenario relied on a similar maneuver). While the vehicle is still traveling faster than the speed of sound, four grid fins deploy, steering the rocket as it plummets toward the ocean. An entry burn slows the rocket further, and landing legs unfold. A final engine burn settles the Falcon onto [the barge]." Monday afternoon is certainly going to be an exciting day for space cadets. First, at 4 pm (Eastern) the head of ULA will reveal the design of the company's new rocket. Then, at 4:33 pm (Eastern), SpaceX will launch Dragon to ISS while attempting to return the first stage safely.

20 of 78 comments (clear)

  1. ULA sux by Scottingham · · Score: 4, Insightful

    "America’s #1 space launch provider, United Launch Alliance (ULA), is asking America to help name its next rocket, calling on citizens to play a role in the future of space launch by voting for the name of the new rocket that will be responsible for the majority of the nation’s future space launches.

    For the next two weeks, the public can vote for its favorite rocket name – Eagle, Freedom or GalaxyOne – "

    Pander much? I am curious to see what it has and if it's in the same decade of development as the Falcon series. My bet is on soviet rehash.

    1. Re:ULA sux by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 3, Funny

      GalaxyOne seems a bit presumptuous and I am pretty sure that Eagle was landed on the Moon... Freedom???

      Maybe we can do a write-in, I vote for MickeyCyclops, no particular reason, just think that it has a nice ring to it

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      Wherever You Go, There You Are
    2. Re:ULA sux by rickb928 · · Score: 2

      Just go all the way and name it the XR4Ti...

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      deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
    3. Re:ULA sux by MachineShedFred · · Score: 2

      That might be the first Merkur joke I've seen on Slashdot.

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    4. Re:ULA sux by garyisabusyguy · · Score: 2

      Sounds good, maybe they can use marionettes for crew until it gets human rated

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      Wherever You Go, There You Are
  2. Really Big Deal by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If ULA has the slightest bit of sense they will announce on Monday that they are pursuing re-usability. But the last I heard was that they would pursue cheaper disposable elements.

    If SpaceX actually lands on the barge and flies the first stage to orbit again it's a really big deal, because it radically changes the economics of getting to space. No matter what the payload is for this demonstration. I don't know if they would get that far with this first stage, but no doubt with a later one.

    1. Re:Really Big Deal by idji · · Score: 2

      I don't believe this one will fly again. If they land successfully, I am sure they would dismantle it to pieces to discover any fatigue points. NASA probably wouldn't let them fly it again without proving it's integrity.

    2. Re:Really Big Deal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      They have stated that it will go to the factory for non-destructive inspection and then to Spaceport America for further test flights (without payloads, only sub-orbital).

      They are already negotiating a sale of first flight of re-used booster, but that is still some way off (and I guess they won't close that deal until they, well, actually recover a stage or two first)

    3. Re:Really Big Deal by DanDD · · Score: 2

      NASA doesn't control what SpaceX flies, unless NASA owns the cargo. SpaceX can re-fly whatever they want, as long as their customer (assuming there is one) is willing to accept the risk.

      It would be very amusing if the recovered first stage were brought back to Texas and used to chase around and herd cattle.

      With that said, I don't think SpaceX is here to amuse anyone. The graft and collusion between ULA and the USAF might have irritated SpaceX into being slightly more productively aggressive.

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      "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
    4. Re:Really Big Deal by Forgefather · · Score: 2

      More than that, imagine if they successfully land the second stage on Monday. That will completely overshadow any news announcement from the United Leftovers Alliance, especially if their rocket is technologically inferior. They will be a laughing stock and it will be glorious.

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      "There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics"
    5. Re:Really Big Deal by Immerman · · Score: 2

      Well, there are a lot of unknowns at this point, but I've heard Musk has claimed that the first stage is responsible for 3/4 of the cost of the launch. Let's then make a probably gross overestimate (after it becomes the norm at least) and assume that it costs half as much to refit as it would to build a new first stage. In that relatively ugly case, subsequent launches will cost 75%*50% (refit first stage) + 25%(2nd stage) = 62.5% as much as the first. Even if they only get a single re-use that reduces the per-launch costs by over 18%, nothing to sneeze at, and of course with multiple reuses the savings rapidly converge to 37.5%.

      And if we take another number out of the hat and say the refit costs only 1/4 as much as a new rocket, then the cost of the subsequent flights is only ~44% of the original.

      Granted the limited reuse of the Shuttle launch system was almost as expensive as building a fresh one, but the Shuttle system was well known for being a "design by committee" affair that could do almost anything, all of it badly, and re-usability was incorporated to put a tick in a government requirement check-box, rather than to make actual economic sense.

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    6. Re:Really Big Deal by Bruce+Perens · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Please come down from whatever overheated state you're running. He did address what you wrote.

      Yes, there can be unknowns. Fixing that sort of stuff is how we got from the Wright Flier to the 747.

      What I don't think is likely is that the first stage will come down and they will find out sorry, there's space-rot we didn't know about before and reusability just isn't a possibility. Especially after lots of experience with the Space Shuttle.

    7. Re:Really Big Deal by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      In fact, Musk has said numerous times that it is not worth going after the second stage, at least at this time.
      He is focused on F9R/Grasshopper, FH, Dragon V2, MCT, along with the new satellite system.

      I have to wonder what would happen if a launch fails at this moment. I suspect that with so many pokers in the fire, he would have a difficult time recovering.
      OTOH, if SpaceX can get up to 12 launches this year, and get FH, along with F9R successful, I suspect that it is all blue sky from here on in.

      Note that the software to make F9R work will be the same software, with a little bit different parms, for the Dragon V2.
      Basically, the V2's testings for landing will happen quickly and I would guess smoothly after F9R.

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  3. Re:ULA? by Coren22 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I know you are joking, but for those who didn't already know:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U...

    The United Launch Alliance is an unholy union of Lockheed Martin Space Systems and Boeing Defense, Space & Security.

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    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  4. Re:ULA? by Hartree · · Score: 2

    "The United Launch Alliance is an unholy union"

    Unholy union. Is that like a seamless joint?

  5. Re:I'm so stoked for this... by cjameshuff · · Score: 2

    Jokes aside, it was probably good that they got a crash landing on the barge that early, because it illustrated how badly some people were exaggerating the dangers involved. The rocket was almost completely empty of fuel, and while it made a big fireball and smeared the rocket itself across the deck of the barge, it caused very little damage. The detractors of bringing the first stage back to land would have you think it'd be more like the last Antares launch: https://lh6.googleusercontent....

  6. Re:Wouldn't be a problem for Shuttle or DreamChase by bledri · · Score: 2

    Instead of trying to use Apollo-era designs, how about using something that is designed specifically to fly itself down? The Shuttle and DreamChaser addressed this problem quite well. Piloting a can doesn't work too well when you're going downwards.

    When sanity prevails and Shuttle-like designs come back, perhaps space travel will improve. Until then, it's 1960's rehashes all around.

    No production first stage has every landed propulsively, so they are not going backward to something that was done before. The Shuttle was more "refurbished" then reused. The main fuel tank was discarded. The booster cases were fished out of the water (how modern) and basically rebuilt. The main engines were removed after each flight and rebuilt. The tiles painstakingly inspected and repaired. It was a technological marvel but a financial disaster. The Dream Chaser is just the payload, not launch system. They planned to launch on an expendable rocket. So your examples are all non-sequitors, not "how to do it right."

    "Flying back" is not really an option for a first stage booster. You'd need to add wings (more weight and drag, or complex mechanisms) and you'd need to add some sort of heat shield (more weight.) Propulsive landing requires more fuel (weight). The reentry burn itself acts as the primary thermal protection system (counterintuitive, but true.) It's a very elegant solution for recovering the entire first stage for reuse. And it's ridiculous that no major aerospace company was willing to pursue it. (There was the DC-X experimental rocket, but that was a government funded experiment which McDonnell Douglas dropped as soon as the "cost plus" gravy train left the station.)

    Now if you love wings, then the right way to do that is probably something like Skylon, but it's a long way from flying and SpaceX is already forcing launch prices lower.

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  7. Re:I am curious what ULA's rocket will look like by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    The only way for ULA to drop their prices is to move away from EELVs to reusable. The good news is that Bruno is pushing EELVs but leaving backdoors for otherwise. ULA is quietly working on developing the same tech as SpaceX.

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    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  8. Re:Wouldn't be a problem for Shuttle or DreamChase by khallow · · Score: 2

    Instead of trying to use Apollo-era designs, how about using something that is designed specifically to fly itself down?

    Because Apollo-era designs are best approach for the current flight rate of the Falcon 9. And while SpaceX eventually expects the flight rate to get up to the point where reusable vehicles work, they can and did do so by upgrading a current, working vehicle rather than designing a new. more complex one from scratch.

  9. Yes by WindBourne · · Score: 2

    They are required to get the landing at sea done first, prior to being allowed to land back at kennedy.
    Most likely, NASA will require at least several sea landings.

    In addition, the FH will likely land at sea with most of their center core. That one will be pretty far out there.

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    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.