Would-Be Bomber Arrested In Kansas; Planned Suicide Attack on Ft. Riley

The Associated Press (as carried by the Boston Herald) reports that a 20-year old Topeka man has been arrested as he attempted to arm what he believed to be a thousand-pound bomb outside Ft. Riley, Kansas. John T. Booker Jr. is alleged to have planned an attack in conspiracy with others who were actually FBI agents; Booker's postings to Facebook in March 2014 about his desire to die as a martyr brought him to the FBI's attention, and the FBI sting operation which ended in his arrest began after these posts. Booker had been recruited by the U.S. Army in February of last year, but his enlistment was cancelled shortly thereafter.

Comments

masdf

[Anonymous Coward]

So once again, the FBI entraps someone by convincing them to carry out an attack so that they can stop it and pretend to be heroes. How about actually stopping attacks that you haven't yourself created? Oh, right. That count is still at zero. And I guess you need to justify all your bullshit somehow.

Re:masdf

[BitterOak]

So once again, the FBI entraps someone by convincing them to carry out an attack so that they can stop it and pretend to be heroes. How about actually stopping attacks that you haven't yourself created? Oh, right. That count is still at zero. And I guess you need to justify all your bullshit somehow.

Actually, stings like this may prevent actual attacks from occurring by providing a deterrent. Would you join such a conspiracy if your co-conspirators might be FBI agents? Operations like these send a message out to would-be terrorists: you're not safe planning attacks in this country.

Re:masdf

[davester666]

You won't believe how many attacks the NSA has stopped, just this week. Of course, it's all classified beyond ultra-super-mega-top-secret, so they can't even talk about it amongst themselves.

Re:masdf

[Anonymous Coward]

This does *not* make us safer. Quite the opposite, really. They use people like him to promote their own agenda. That is, they want to "prove" that everyone is a terrorist and they need more money and approval to stomp all over our rights, and you shouldn't complain about it.

What happens when one of their sting operations don't go according to plan? Maybe their guy goes a little nuts and decides to do things his own way, ends up killing or hurting a lot of innocent people. The FBI in this case could have stopped it by behaving appropriately instead of pressuring and reassuring him that doing evil was the way to go. Maybe without the FBI egging him on, he wouldn't have done anything.

Here, they found someone that was exhibiting some obvious mental problems. Instead of getting him the help he clearly needed, they decided to make a show out of it for their own propaganda machine.

Re:masdf

[whoever57]

Did you not notice the stories about how random people have breached security at airports many times over the last few years? If there were any serious terrorists, there would have been attacks at airports. The fact that teenagers were able to get on planes while we haven't had any terrorist attacks shows that the threats are wildly over-stated.

Re:masdf

[ShanghaiBill]

Actually, stings like this may prevent actual attacks from occurring by providing a deterrent.

Alternatively, they may make actual terrorist cells more difficult to penetrate, since they will be less trusting of outsiders. This guy just arrested appears to be another crazy homeless person, who would never have been able to organize any sort of attack without FBI help. It is nice that he will have a warm place to sleep and three meals a day, but is this really a smart way to use FBI resources? If they really have nothing better to do, then perhaps we have too many FBI agents.

Re:masdf

[cold fjord]

You apparently didn't comprehend the story. That guy was committed to make an attack and die in the process before he came into contact with the FBI. Where is your evidence that the FBI was "pressuring" and "reassuring him"?

Here, they found someone that was exhibiting some obvious mental problems. Instead of getting him the help he clearly needed, they decided to make a show out of it for their own propaganda machine.

What is your evidence that he had mental problems? He certainly had different values, but that isn't the same as being mentally ill. If anything your claim of "obvious mental problems" and that they "decided to make of show out of it for their own propaganda machine" indicates you probably don't understand what was happening. How is it jihadis conduct suicide bombing all over the world (without FBI contact) but you think they can't happen here?

That is, they want to "prove" that everyone is a terrorist and they need more money and approval to stomp all over our rights, and you shouldn't complain about it.

No, they are trying to prove that guy culpable for his actions in a court of law. That has nothing to do with your fatuous claim which is clearly nonsense.

Re:masdf

[circletimessquare]

you don't know what entrapment means

entrapment is getting you to do something you would not have otherwise done

if the guy expresses his desire to bomb, and proceeds to go through with it, all of his own choice, he's not entrapped

the involvement of the fbi is manipulating all of his material to be harmless, and allowing him to proceed. they are not telling him what to do, he's choosing to do it

they let him go forward so they can see if he is an isolated wackjob or if there are conspirators. it also means they get to stick him with serious charges rather than a slap on the wrist

or would you prefer a guy who fervently desires to bomb people to be out there?

there is no entrapment here. none. zero. you simply do not understand the concept

Re:masdf

[cold fjord]

You're making an unsupported claim: "My posts propose that the FBI gets help for these people instead of propping them up and egging them on."

Where is the proof of that? Propping them up? Egging them on? This guy made his intent clear before the FBI ever came into contact with him. Why do you believe that wasn't his actual intent? Why do you believe that he didn't intent to kill people? What is your evidence that he is mentally ill instead of willing to engage in attacks that are consistent with his values and like those that occur around the world on a daily basis? Why do you think that America can't have ordinary ideologically inspired terrorists like other parts of the world?

The FBI cares about people's safety which is why they investigate people that announce their desire to commit violent jihad. That isn't "trying to draw attention to themselves," that is investigating the crimes people announce they intend to commit.

Re:masdf

[Darinbob]

"Dude, I got this bomb I ordered from in the mail just like you told me to, but then I noticed it was just a fake. Your contact was trying to cheat us. I decided to take the initiative and get a real bomb instead. Hope you guys with the fake beards don't mind. Now where are those drugs you promised me?"

Re:masdf

[Etzos]

And on what grounds are they going to force him to get help? He expressed a desire to make a bomb and detonate it, but anyone could express that desire and not actually act on it. That seems like pretty poor grounds to force someone to get help.

Could they have done it when he attempted to buy the goods to make the bomb? Possibly. But I still think those are pretty shaky grounds.

What if they swapped out the potentiality dangerous elements he buys and then waiting until he actually attempts to go through with what he originally proposed? In that case no one would get hurt because the materials he used are rendered inoperative and now they have an actual case to get him help.

I would also like to point out that the OP never actually said anything about getting him help. Only that the FBI should have stopped the attack (Which they did, at the very least, by rendering the materials useless).

Re:masdf

[Gadget_Guy]

What is your evidence that he had mental problems?

Apparently you didn't comprehend the story either. According the TFA, he was "mentally ill and was acting strangely only days before his arrest, according to a Muslim cleric who said he was counseling him at the request of the FBI.". The cleric went on to say that "the agents told him that Booker suffered from bipolar disorder, characterized by unusual mood swings that can affect functioning."

So he had mental problems according to the FBI and the person that was counselling him.

Re:masdf

[circletimessquare]

because no one knows how to buy fertilizer and gasoline?

did the guy back out, back down?

if i sell you a gun, am i responsible for what you do with the gun?

we WANT the fbi providing harmless alternatives for people who intend mass murder

Re:masdf

[stdarg]

Secretive terrorist cells are just one threat vector. What about the guys who openly want to join ISIS? Or the people who may listen to the openly broadcast messages of ISIS/al Qaeda/al Shabaab/etc saying things like "Rise up and attack shopping malls." There's nothing to penetrate there, it's just a matter of finding people likely to do it.

Somebody who was so radicalized and at the tipping point that they went along with a plot like this is a serious public threat, and not because they might have ended up in a super secret terrorist cell that now we'll never know about.

Re:masdf

[sjames]

I'm saying the guy probably lacks executive ability. I'm saying he'd probably still be sitting on his butt dreaming of one day being a suicide bomber if not for the FBI providing the logistics, the plan, and most of the execution.

If the FBI really wants to stop people with the desire AND fortitude to actually be harmful, they shouldn't get involved until they actually take some concrete step. Alas, that's not what they do in these cases. They look for morons who post stupid stuff online and then do 100% of the heavy lifting and then arrest the guy who is essentially a spectator in it all.

McVeigh was clearly not in the same category. He actually took the steps to carry out his plan.

Re:masdf

[bkmoore]

You apparently didn't comprehend the story. That guy was committed to make an attack and die in the process before he came into contact with the FBI. Where is your evidence that the FBI was "pressuring" and "reassuring him"?

Quick google, the FBI has charged over 150 suspected 'terrorists' since 9-11 based on evidence from sting operations. Did they really prevent 150 people from committing terrorist acts? The FBI is either very good at catching terrorists before they even plan their attacks, or they are going out and setting people up. The Tsarnaev brothers kind of disprove the first possibility.

Re:masdf

[Anonymous Coward]

> Apparently you didn't comprehend the story either.

Dude, its Cold Fjord, he has a mental illness where he only sees the most extremist right-wing version of anything he reads. His visual cortex is physical incapable of processing any words that might even hint at a more sane interpretation.

Re:masdf

[itzly]

The FBI is either very good at catching terrorists before they even plan their attacks, or they are going out and setting people up. The Tsarnaev brothers kind of disprove the first possibility.

More likely, it's a combination of both. Some of the people they caught would probably have succeeded without the FBI, others needed FBI help, and some needed FBI encouragement. Of course, the FBI can't reliably see what kind of person they're dealing with when they start the sting, and how this person may develop later.

Re:masdf

[cold fjord]

Apparently you didn't comprehend the story either. According the TFA ...

I am amused to inform you that you aren't quoting from TFA. If you follow the link in the story summary it brings you to a story that doesn't contain the paragraph you quote, or even a number of the key words. You are quoting from a different story at the same source. Since you didn't provide a link, allow me:

Man charged with plotting bombing at Kansas military base

So, it turns out that I comprehended the story, and you didn't. What you did do was bring in new facts in a different story from a reputable source, and helpful ones for the discussion.

So yes, it appears he may be mentally ill. That doesn't make him less dangerous.

Imam Omar Hazim of the Islamic Center of Topeka told The Associated Press that two FBI agents brought Booker to him early in 2014 for counseling, hoping to turn the young man away from radical beliefs. Hazim said the agents told him that Booker suffered from bipolar disorder, characterized by unusual mood swings that can affect functioning.

Hazim said he expressed concerns to the FBI about allowing him to move freely in the community after their first encounter.

If he is in fact mentally ill that potentially raises new difficultes involved with involuntary commitment or possible criminal defenses. In either case the state's position is much stronger since he attempted an attack rather than simply writing about it. There isn't much room for doubt that he is a danger to himself (suicide bomber) and the community.

But there is more to it than that. It appears that there are more people involved in this plot. I doubt they will all be mentally ill. What will you have to say if it turns out to be 2 sane guys with different values and 1 mentally ill guy with different values? Even if this one individual is mentally ill, that doesn't necessarily mean that this plot wouldn't have been of interest to him if he wasn't.

Re:masdf

[robi5]

>If someone openly stated they want to become a martyr and hurt or kill a lot of people, they are mentally ill, whether they intend to carry it out or not. That's not open to debate.

No, you're only proving that you're incapable of properly reasoning in the real World. You hold some values and convictions and your spotty thought processes lead you to assume that all other people do, even those that grew up in radically different environments, maybe in a setting resembling the medieval ages, or maybe born to parents who themselves grew up in such an environment, and now they, and their children have difficulty adjusting to the First World. You are apparently incapable to understand that there are lots of religions and lots of calls to arm, especially in the Muslim world. Therefore you don't model a jihadist properly; you model yourself, or those who grew up near you, with the slight superficial change of having darker skin, calling God in a different name and maybe speaking an additional language.

Because naive (I was polite here) people like you represent danger to society through improperly resisting defense mechanisms of society, maybe society would benefit more from your visits to a psychologist than from the visits of a jihadist in the making:

You might learn not to project your current mind into the bodies of other people. You might learn that someone plotting something unreasonable _to you_ may not be mentally ill. However the jihadist won't say, "Yes, sure, after these 10 therapy sessions now I see the World is a beautiful place and I want to constructively contribute to society.".

Re:masdf

[sound vision]

Maybe the terrorists aren't as fixated on planes as the westerners are after 9/11? I've noticed that when you add "...on a plane" or "...at an airport" to things that people otherwise wouldn't care about, suddenly it's a huge issue. While there are certainly special considerations that need to be made for safety in the context of air travel, there's many easier ways for terrorists to make a statement and kill a bunch of people. Fill a U-Haul with a couple tons of explosive. Fill smaller containers with explosive and distribute them around a city. Walk into a crowd and open fire. Let out poisonous gas in a subway or other enclosed space. Car bombs in particular happen on an almost monthly basis in the middle east, and there have been quite a few high-profile terrorist attacks in the west since 9/11, none of them have involved planes. Boston bombing, Madrid bombing, London bombing, Charlie Hebdo, Ft. Hood. Terrorists aren't looking at planes.

Re:masdf

[robi5]

Lion tamer? Sounds like a realistic next goal for someone like this ticking bomb guy. Once someone clearly identifies with the goal of killing hundreds of people, it's more economical to test his intentions (which they did) and carve the rotten flesh out of society's body, versus resorting to asking him "enjoy the World, how do you feel about your mother, and hey here are some pills, if all fails, they'll change your mind - because you want this, right? - , pretty please never ever skip them" or following his every move for the rest of his life at a huge expense to society, which is never an airtight process anyway. We can moralise a lot from the vantage point of First World sophistication, but someone infected by medieval concepts will only exploit this as cracks in the society's self defense mechanism. If they go medieval on us, we need to take appropriate action, in pragmatic ways, to defend ourselves, rather than being immersed in navel gazing, rationalising murderous behavior etc. If he was ready to set off the bomb, of course let's remove him from society. I think most vegetarians would resort to eating meet if the alternative is starvation; most animal lovers don't have a problem squishing the odd moskito or wasp if they are bitten. The humanistic person like you also need to deal with forces whose very intention is to end humanistic society. Sure, learn about stuff, analyse, rationalise, give planet size benefits of the doubt, and contemplate how we should acquit criminals if it was proven they had a bad hair day or somebody looked at them with contempt. But in the meantime defend yourself from clearly demonstrated dangers, otherwise you might find yourself under Sharia law and you can forget about open discourse.

The FBI presented the guy with an 'opportunity' the same way some jihadist cell could have done, having identified him as a willing contributor. What's the difference? What if he were approached by a real terrorist cell, did the same thing, and, e.g. for some technical reason, the bomb didn't go off?

I insist that the FBI take such preventive measures, rather than just resorting to mopping up the blood, identifying bodies, and learning what happened and why, after the event - which are pretty clear to begin with, e.g. they were jihadists, or lone wolf criminals, period.

Re:masdf

[TsuruchiBrian]

The prison system already has more mentally ill people than the healthcare facilities. In fact, a lot of people refer to the prison system as the nations largest system of mental heath facilities.

Re:masdf

[amiga3D]

They've been doing this same stuff for decades. Before the Islamic nutcases it was other groups like the so called home grown "militia" groups. They infiltrated one local group of idiots here that just got together to shoot guns, drink beer and bitch about the government. Impatient with the fact that the pussies weren't ever going to do shit they got their inside guy to show them how to make a bomb, then he helped them get the stuff to make one and then after that he helped them make it. Since they were too big a bunch of pussies (or just not really that crazy) to use the thing they only got to prosecute for "conspiracy." I didn't feel much pity for them as they were a sad group of morons but what a waste of money.

Re:masdf

[Hognoxious]

By the powers vested in me by my Atlanta GED I proclaim ... 75!

Re:masdf

[fnj]

If someone openly stated they want to become a martyr and hurt or kill a lot of people, they are mentally ill, whether they intend to carry it out or not.

Your intellectual slip is showing. If someone disagrees with your values, that does not ipso facto make them "mentally ill". Rage and hate and evil actions resulting therefrom exist in the world separately from psychiatric disorders. Deal with it. Not every murderer is due a get out of jail free card just because you can't imagine evil without an accompanying psychiatric disorder.

Re:masdf

[mellon]

17.3.

Dumb question. The job of the FBI is to arrest people who commit crimes. They should arrest exactly those people, and no other people. Of course it's an imperfect science, and they will miss some criminals and arrest some innocent people. But a key demographic they should avoid is arresting people who wouldn't have committed crimes without their help, because it is explicitly not their job to instigate criminal activity.

Re:masdf

[mellon]

Terrorists are interested in instigating terror. If they were as big a danger as they are said to be, they would already have let off a bomb in an airport security line and killed a hundred people waiting to be screened. The fact that this hasn't happened either means that the government has a machine that watches our every move and knows who is going to set off bombs, in which case they don't need these stings, or else it means that there really aren't that many people who are interested in committing mass murder who are able to get into the United States and act on that wish.

Re:masdf

[Pseudonym]

That doesn't make him less dangerous.

What makes him dangerous is filling his head with dangerous thoughts. The vast majority, if not all, of the people whom the FBI have entrapped in the past are some of the more vulnerable members of society: people without a strong social support structure, part of a marginalised community, often poor, often unemployed, and so on.

It's a fundamental axiom of modern policing that the best way to stop crime is to stop people from becoming criminals in the first place. If someone is at risk of becoming a criminal, the best thing you can do is divert them away from that as early as possible. For the FBI to turn a non-criminal into a criminal is not just a failure, it's sociopathic.

Re:masdf

[Anonymous Coward]

That's actually not likely at all, since the ONLY ones they stopped were the sting operations, which, again, are things that almost certainly never would have happened without their encouragement.

People really need to understand just how evil the people in our government are. They want to think of them as good people, but they aren't. They have been corrupted by an evil system. For case studies of how this works, read "The Lucifer Effect" or the wiki on the Stanford Prison Experiment. There good men played the role of prison guards and instantly changed into sadistic assholes. Here people are playing the role of anti-terror agents, and have also turned into assholes as a result.

Re:masdf

[tompaulco]

Christianity doesn't "lead to" terrorism any more than Islam "Leads to" terrorism. Neither religion condones or supports terrorism. People support terrorism. People lie and manipulate to support terrorism. People falsely use religion to support terrorism. Don't blame religion. Religion isn't even a physical thing capable of thinking for itself. Blame people.

Re:masdf

[Mr D from 63]

You are right, don't blame religion. But also don't overlook the fact that a known religious structure is a key element in the widespread recruiting and development of terrorists. Be it an end or a means depends on where you stand in that structure. But if you don't talk about that structure and call it what it is, you can not hope to dismantle it.

Re:masdf

[Livius]

let's remove all security with respect to airplanes. Care to fly now?

Yes. Since it's reduced my airfare, and massively reduced inconvenience, personal indignity, and time wasted at airports, and only marginally compromised air travel security.

Re: masdf

[jd2112]

Sounds like a lot of Fox News viewers I know.

Re:masdf

[Pseudonym]

Unfortunately, these are the same people that are easily exploited and swayed into terrorist acts.

If they're that malleable, then they should be able to be steered into being a productive member of society instead of being a criminal. The FBI had a choice about which they could do. They chose the one which would give them a headline and a story on Slashdot.

Re:masdf

[yzf750]

Do you have a source for that? Certainly there are narcs, but I've never heard of any of them enrolling in high schools undercover. Cops threatening high school kids who got caught anyway to cough up some names, sure. But when they invest an undercover agent (= lots of money), it's going to be for a big investigation, not to find out which high school kid sold a dimebag to which other high school kid.

http://www.chron.com/neighborh...

There you go. The story quotes one of the sheriffs stating that they have done this in other cities throughout the county as well.

Alternative title

[whoever57]

FBI sets up naive person and then arrests him when he follows instructions from his FBI handlers.

Re:Alternative title

[whoever57]

it's not entrapment

Just because it doesn't fit the legal definition of entrapment doesn't mean that it isn't morally entrapment.

In this case, yes, the guy had the desire to do something. However, he did not and would never have had the capability to do anything. There was no public safety justificaton for this FBI operation.

Re:Alternative title

[whoever57]

if the fbi wasn't around, he would have figured out how to buy gasoline or fertilizer on his own, or he would have hooked up with a genuinely malicious crew

And you know this how? Isn't this the concept of "pre-crime"

if you INTEND to do harm, stopping you from following through on your intent is doing good in the world, and removing you from society for being a murderous asshole is doing good in the world

So we should prosecute "thought crime" should we?

it's not entrapment. it does not fit the definition of the concept, which you don't seem to understand

And you just showed that your reading skills are poor. I agreed that it did not fit the legal definition of entrapment.

understand intent. understand entrapment. then comment on this topic. you don't seem to have the moral or social faculties to comment intelligently at this time, as you don't seem to understand the concepts involved

The refuge of the weak of mind: an ad-hominem argument.

Re:islamist radical?

[qubezz]

I doubt there would have been any attack unless he was "radicalized" by the FBI. He could have not had his enlistment in the US military canceled because of a Facebook post, and could have been taken in and counseled and put through boot camp instead of being manipulated like a foreign asset for months until he committed the crime that was orchestrated for him.

Re:Out of curiosity

[Okian Warrior]

if you don't understand the concepts involved, do not comment on a topic you don't understand

You stated - quite plainly - that this was "no coaching, no suggestion", obviously some strange legal definition of ""no coaching, no suggestion", of which I am unaware.

And of course, this is only coming from the complaint, which is the FBI's version of events.

If the FBI's version is this sketchy, what do you imagine the real situation was?

Or are you one of those people with "relatives in law enforcement", who have inside information about all officers being honest, forthright persons?

(Except for the ones caught on video, of course!)

Re: Debunking a myth

[mellon]

Christianity forbids warfare outright (Aquinas notwithstanding), and yet look at all the wars that have been fought in the name of Jesus, and all the "christian nations" that have fought wars for supposedly just causes. If you're going to lay terrorism at the feet of Islam, at least get the rest of the story straight.

This

[transporter_ii]

Spend some time looking into the OKC bombing. That this was a sting gone wrong is incredibly possible. It doesn't have to be the way it happened, but certainly toward the top of the list of what really happened. There were government agents involved all over the place, and this has been proven in court. They either knew it was going to happen (possibly with their own involvement?) and thought they would stop him at the last minutes, or they knew about it but didn't have enough information as to when it was going to be, or they had government agents all through this group of people yet somehow didn't know about it. But several government agents that were undercover in the group have testified in court that they warned the FBI about a plan to blow up a federal building, so there is no way they didn't know about it to some degree before hand.

Let's say this time had went south and this guy was able to set off his bomb. Would the FBI admit they had been working with him? Or would they go into cover up mode...and everyone on here badmouth Alex Jones when he points out obvious holes in the official story? I actually can't stand Alex, but from time to time, a conspiracy theory turns out to be true.

Re:Debunking a myth

[mean pun]

Did you realize what he did when you cited him?

Of course I realise what he's doing. He's trying to teach all the blithering idiots that are spouting facile astroturfed memes that the world is not as black-and-white as they are suggesting, that Muslims are not the moustache-twirling villains of Hollywood movies that some people like them to be, and that said idiots should not believe all the lies and propaganda that is produced on an industrial scale.

In other words, he is attempting the hardest task every teacher ever has, he is trying to make people think for themselves instead of just echoing groupthink.

It's a thankless task and probably a hopeless task, but I'm glad someone is at least trying.