Slashdot Mirror


Google Battles For Better Batteries

An anonymous reader writes: The Wall Street Journal reports that Google's X research lab has joined the quest for better batteries. The company has at least 20 projects that depend on batteries, from Google Glass to self-driving cars and drones. Thus, it makes sense for them to try developing new battery technology. "At Google, Dr. Bhardwaj's group is trying to advance current lithium-ion technology and the cutting-edge solid-state batteries for consumer devices. ... In a February presentation to an industry conference, Dr. Bhardwaj described how solid-state, thin-film batteries could be used in smartphones and other mobile devices that are thinner, bendable, wearable and even implantable in the human body. ... For the contact lens, the technology is safer because it doesn't use flammable electrolyte liquid, Dr. Bhardwaj's presentation explained."

44 comments

  1. Betty by davidc · · Score: 2, Funny

    Betty bought a bitty battery
    But the bitty battery Betty bought was bogus
    So Betty backed a better bitty battery

    1. Re:Betty by fche · · Score: 1

      Balderdash!

    2. Re:Betty by drinkypoo · · Score: 4, Funny

      Cecil sells c cells down by the seashore.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  2. The more the better-er by ScottJermaineGuyton · · Score: 1

    More research into this area is always welcome. Still would like to see more research into replicating full biospheres.

    1. Re:The more the better-er by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      I doubt it would happen for a variety of reasons, but I'd love to see Google find a way to work with Tesla on this.

  3. Better batteries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's obvious that better batteries would be a very good thing. Everybody knows this. There's no need to search for reasons to develop better batteries.

  4. not just them by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Thus, it makes sense for them to try developing new battery technology

    it makes sense for everyone to try to develop a better battery. societies are trying to and wants to switch from chemical power generation to solar generation which currently has the issue of needing costly batteries. if nothing else, it's a growth market.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:not just them by Lord+Balto · · Score: 2

      I think that's what the gigafactory is all about. While everyone else natters on about "costly batteries," Tesla is actually doing something about it.

    2. Re:not just them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because Tesla disappears as a business if they don't have cheap, large capacity, small, light-weight batteries. If I have them, if I don't have them... it won't make a big difference in the next few years of my life.

    3. Re:not just them by cb88 · · Score: 2

      Costly batteries are only a problem when you want batteries that are lightweight and high capacity for vehicles... Potassium Hydroxide batteries (among others) already solve the low cost solar storage problem for fixed high reliability installations.

      The only thing stopping people from switching to solar is themselves... its not even that expensive anymore relative to the cost of a new house.

  5. 4 Google staff members assigned to this project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    A breakthrough is certain!

    1. Re:4 Google staff members assigned to this project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      what does the quantity of people have to do with it?

      Is Google using trial and error - like Edison and his team for light bulb filaments?

      For all we know, Google made someone academic researcher a real sweet offer and got him to move to Google. That's what I would do. If I needs a battery guy, I'd search the literature, find someone making a lot of progress in the direction I need, and throw money and equipment at him.

    2. Re:4 Google staff members assigned to this project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      A breakthrough is certain!

      nearly as certain as the project's discontinuance 6 months later.

    3. Re:4 Google staff members assigned to this project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's probably just 4 guys cranking out shitty battery patents as fast as they can. The chance of Google actually developing their own physical battery are zero.

    4. Re:4 Google staff members assigned to this project by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      While you joke. What I was reading a couple weeks ago they have ~2 years from the start of the project. Basically whip up some prototypes and are they promising if so then continue after 2. If not kill or spin it out.

      Not a bad way to work. Instead of flushing more money and more importantly time down the drain on something you can not get to work.

  6. Been fighting battery designs for a while by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ever since the advent of mobile devices that run on batteries we have been fighting with how to design them so they provide ample life, good life, and reasonable charge times. Not only those requirements but in the rechargeable arena they also had to be safe. Not always, has this been the case with lithium Ion batteries.
    Plenty of manufactures for laptops and even some phones have recalled batteries. I myself had a couple laptop batteries that swelled up on one corner. But I have seen far more advancements in hardware using battery power more efficiently, then batteries becoming better. We certainly have seen battery designs become more aggressive in working with capacity vs size. Very thin laptops like a Macbook Air have pushed battery designs beyond the brick style. Phones, requiring more and more capacity are now becoming much of the phones bulk these days. Obviously Tesla would want to find capacity and reduce bulk at the same time. The brick wall has always been finding materials that hold a charge, are relatively inexpensive, and durable and safe. So far, this has been moving at a snails pace.

    1. Re:Been fighting battery designs for a while by Lord+Balto · · Score: 1

      ManufactureRs. Manufactures is what a manufacturer does.

  7. LENS by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "I have astigmatism in my eye, do you have the same problem? Yeah, it's when your eye goes screwy. My Optometrist said it was from years of doing stand-up comedy staring into the lights. Said he could fix it with laser surgery. I said what are you going to do, he said: 'I'm going to shine this light in your eyes."

  8. Does anybody realize by Sqreater · · Score: 1

    that a fully charged car battery is a bomb? Or will we have to have some nut job terrorist drive a truck full of these up to a building and short them to understand that? Energy is energy and high voltage, high current shorts are explosions capable of creating expanding plasmas at thousands of degrees. I roughly calculated once that the energy equivalent of the gasoline in my gas tank was 240 sticks of dynamite. Should we expect it to be any different for batteries? Tell me why not.

    --
    E Proelio Veritas.
    1. Re:Does anybody realize by dixonpete · · Score: 4, Informative

      Tesla has done a lot of work in this area, see: http://www.extremetech.com/ext...

    2. Re:Does anybody realize by pushing-robot · · Score: 5, Informative

      * Batteries have far lower energy density than gasoline (and even most explosives).

      * Batteries have a maximum discharge rate, which means they can't release all their energy instantaneously under practical conditions. In other words, instead of detonating like a firecracker, they tend to just spray fire and sparks for a few minutes like a fountain.

      * "Real" explosives are not hard to acquire or manufacture, and bags of fertilizer and cans of fuel oil cost far less than an equivalent mass of Li-Ion batteries.

      --
      How can I believe you when you tell me what I don't want to hear?
    3. Re:Does anybody realize by peragrin · · Score: 1

      apparently you don't realize gasoline burns, and desiel is fairly easily turned into a giant bomb as well.

      Sources of stored energy are bombs. Every single one. The difference is if you can pull that energy out over time or only all at once.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    4. Re:Does anybody realize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, everybody recognizes this. We call it physics.

    5. Re:Does anybody realize by azalin · · Score: 2

      You are not allowed to carry spiked fertilizer on a plane though. Lithium Batteries on the other hand, are allowed.

    6. Re:Does anybody realize by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      because batteries do not blow up. They can catch fire, but not the same thing. Gas and diesel CAN AND DO blow up like TNT.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    7. Re:Does anybody realize by Hamsterdan · · Score: 2
      --
      I've got better things to do tonight than die.
    8. Re:Does anybody realize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      do you realize all these explosions you want are a one time use product. Sure petrol has a high energy density, but recharging it is quite dificult, not to mention you are wasiting a lot of power on noise and heat.

    9. Re:Does anybody realize by Sqreater · · Score: 1

      Ever seen an arc flash explosion?

      --
      E Proelio Veritas.
    10. Re:Does anybody realize by Sqreater · · Score: 1

      Would be much easier to charge up a bunch of car batteries and short them for a giant arc flash explosion. Throw in a couple tanks of hydrogen and oxygen.

      --
      E Proelio Veritas.
    11. Re:Does anybody realize by Sqreater · · Score: 1

      I've decided not to continue on this subject.

      --
      E Proelio Veritas.
    12. Re:Does anybody realize by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Yes, on lead acid batteries and no doubt on any batteries that do not have safety gear, while in the precense of gas/diesel. BUT, LI-ION battery all by themselves with safety gear? Nope.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  9. Or, not use Android by Kohlrabi82 · · Score: 1, Troll

    When I see the battery lifetime of my old Nokia phone, or recent iPhones, I notice the obvious problem is Android. I am lucky if my Nexus 4 isn't drained empty after 24 hours. Google can achieve "better batteries" (at least for their phones) by developing a new OS.

    1. Re:Or, not use Android by m.alessandrini · · Score: 1
      I entended my phone's battery life, and its speed and responsiveness, by uninstalling or disabling all (almost) the apps that have background processes always in execution. See under Settings -> Applications -> Running. You should really invest some time for finding alternative apps that don't rely on background processes for ads and the like, or recognize you don't need them installed all the time.

      By trial and errors, you may find that it's only one or two apps that occupy the most resources. I suspect some programmers don't really know what "background" means. For me it totally was a weather app, shipping with the phone.

    2. Re:Or, not use Android by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because your phone sucks power like a hungry ....., does not mean all such phones do. Mine easily lasts two days. And sure, apps that suck juice can lower any phone's life...so you can blame the OS, or the apps, or the phone, but certainly don't blame the user who installed the power hungry apps.

    3. Re:Or, not use Android by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      I entended my phone's battery life, and its speed and responsiveness, by uninstalling or disabling all (almost) the apps that have background processes always in execution. See under Settings -> Applications -> Running. You should really invest some time for finding alternative apps that don't rely on background processes for ads and the like, or recognize you don't need them installed all the time.

      By trial and errors, you may find that it's only one or two apps that occupy the most resources. I suspect some programmers don't really know what "background" means. For me it totally was a weather app, shipping with the phone.

      Most people who have large battery drainage on their cell phones have processes running the background. A lot of people do not know how to close browser pages and apps (i.e. swiping them off the screen).

    4. Re:Or, not use Android by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      Or perhaps comparing a ~$350 phone with a ~$650 one and a dumb-but-not-quite Nokia phone isn't exactly fair.

  10. tongue twister by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Surely she sells sea shore shells.

  11. They are going at it wrong by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    They should be investing into the new nuclear reactors, (thorium, etc) along with stationary batteries for large corps and utilities . This is where the west is NOT investing into.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:They are going at it wrong by spauldo · · Score: 1

      Why?

      Since when is Google primarily a power utility?

      What Google products (other than datacenters, which it builds where power is already available) would benefit from gen IV reactors? Hint: you're never going to get a phone with a thorium reactor built into it.

      I'm certainly not against development of smaller reactors - lead-cooled fast reactors have a lot of promise for powering remote areas, for instance - but why would it make sense for Google to invest in them rather than technology that directly impacts its business?

      --
      Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
  12. Unavoidable alliteration by spauldo · · Score: 1

    Bonaparte built batteries for better battles!

    I'm going to go lie down now, that was bad.

    --
    Those who can't do, teach. Those who can't teach either, do tech support.
  13. Welcome change from Battery Breakthrough comments by augustz · · Score: 1

    I breathed a bit of relief that this wasn't another "battery breakthrough" story.

    For the last 4-5 years it seems every popular news outlet is excited to announce battery breakthroughs. But for every breakthrough for instant charging for example they don't explain that the battery is 100x larger in size or 100x heavier or whatever. And similarly, when the battery holds 100x the energy, they don't explain the other downsides that impact its practical application. I mean, a capacitor "charges" quickly (and can discharge quickly), but with a number of trade-offs.

    I don't know how to get folks to write a more nuanced story - this may just be because the sensational gets the headlines and clicks (even if not as accurate).

  14. Re:Welcome change from Battery Breakthrough commen by Neil+Boekend · · Score: 1

    Batteries did get a whole lot better in the past decade. It's just that we do so much more with them that the drain on them more then matches the capacity gain we got. Don't blame the battery manufacturer, blame the public who wants 7" screens and oct core 4 Ghz processors on their phones.

    --
    Well, I might have a way, but it only works on a semi spherical planet in a vacuum.
  15. Use Nuclear Waste by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in tiny amounts per battery, well encapsulated in diamond. Electric transmission by induction.