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GNU Hurd 0.6 Released
jrepin writes It has been roughly a year and a half since the last release of the GNU Hurd operating system, so it may be of interest to some readers that GNU Hurd 0.6 has been released along with GNU Mach 1.5 (the microkernel that Hurd runs on) and GNU MIG 1.5 (the Mach Interface Generator, which generates code to handle remote procedure calls). New features include procfs and random translators; cleanups and stylistic fixes, some of which came from static analysis; message dispatching improvements; integer hashing performance improvements; a split of the init server into a startup server and an init program based on System V init; and more.
http://xkcd.com/1508/
It was rumored that both users could be hurd rejoicing.
These days you don't see the same hype around microkernals that you did back then. So we should probably warn the HURD team: If your boner for microkernals lasts more than 25 years, you should probably consult a physician.
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
They announced work on Hurd when I was still in university. I've worked a career, ended up disabled, retired, and spent years on a pet project since then, producing 13 point releases. Over 30 years have gone by.
Yet they've still only reached release 0.6? So one decimal point release every FIVE YEARS?
Jesus.
Stick a fork in this project.
It's done -- as in dead. Pushing up daisies. Pining for the fjords. Defunct. Deceased. Non functional.
It's not even worthy of being called a pipe dream any more. Even "Duke Nukem' Forever" beat them to the punch, and everyone gave up on that project long before it was released.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
It's too bad Linus wasted all this time making a temporary kernel that was just going to be surpassed a mere 24+? years later by the official GNU kernel. Nothing stings more than when the code you write isn't being used.
Well Hurd did not get the developer attention that Linux got. Obviously, this means that progress in Hurd is going to be slower than Linux.
MenuetOS has less than a handful of developers and yet has had USB support for at least 7 years now.
Writing drivers isn't hard.
But for the broader acceptance of an OS, one needs a whole shitload of them.
In the past, a computer with a half dozen devices was "packed". Today? A cheap tiny ARM SoC easily runs up to 30+ built-in devices.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.
From the GNU Hurd Wiki page:
It's time [to] explain the meaning of "Hurd". "Hurd" stands for "Hird of Unix-Replacing Daemons". And, then, "Hird" stands for "Hurd of Interfaces Representing Depth". We have here, to my knowledge, the first software to be named by a pair of mutually recursive acronyms.
—Thomas (then Michael) Bushnell
If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
Who the hell works on the 99% of open source software that isn't popular, and why do they care? Because they do.
He hasn't finished his answer yet. Check back in a few years.
The reasons for disliking it vary, but there is at least one common thread among those who are upset about it: Systemd is being shoved down their throats, in that several of the most widely used, widely loved, deeply entrenched linux distributions have announced that they are adopting it. Many people who use those distributions do so for very good reasons, and since there are no equivalent alternatives, these people are being forced to either accept systemd (which will cause them unwanted trouble) or migrate to an inferior distribution (which will also cause them unwanted trouble). That kind of thing is enough to piss anyone off.
Who the hell works on the 99% of open source software that isn't popular, and why do they care? Because they do.
Show me some proof that anyone cares enough to drive GNU/Hurd to a 1.0 release.
Richard Stallman founded the GNU project in September 1983 with an aim to create a free GNU operating system. Initially the components required for kernel and development were written: editors, shell, compiler and all the others. By 1989, GPL came into being and the only major component missing was the kernel.
In 2010, after twenty years under development, Stallman said that he was ''not very optimistic about the GNU Hurd. It makes some progress, but to be really superior it would require solving a lot of deep problems'', but added that ''finishing it is not crucial'' for the GNU system because a free kernel already existed (Linux), and completing Hurd would not address the main remaining problem for a free operating system: device support.
GNU Hurd
The problem is when you fork your own distro you quickly discover that using systemd is the easiest way to maintain it. It isn't a coincidence that medium and small distros like Arch Linux picked it up in addition to the big boys. Unit-files save package maintainers boatloads of time they used to spend having to writing and maintaining initscripts a lot of which is copypasta boilerplate anyway but its usually distro specific copypasta.
This is the source of a lot of the strife in my opinion. The people who actually do work to maintain distros like systemd, the users not so much.
101 posts and not a single one with technical content. Somebody should create a slashdot post generator, with modules producing output of these kinds:
- internet meme repeater ("year of Linux on the desktop", "stallman eats his own toes", "thou shalt not compare to nazi");
- xkcd repeater (its output is prefixed by the string "obligatory" and displays a strong prevalence of this one);
- project deprecator ("this software is so stupid, I could write a better one with one arm tied behind my back, except I'm too smart to actually do it");
- Google/Apple/Microsoft PR ("it's not Google who kills kittens! It's their subcontractors!");
and, last but not least,
- Slashdot deprecator ("slashdot is no longer a nice site to read these days").
Been a while since I had to do it, but I don't recall it being that hard. I did have to look at a book.
But that's not the point. If systemd was just an init system and nothing but an init system, so help it God, people could either take it or leave it. They'd have the choice, one way or the other.
The problem is that when it has dependencies on your window manager, microwave & healthcare plan you can't simply unplug it and replace it with something else.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Ah, it's turned into a "let'smake our selves feel important by shitting on someone't hobby" day.
Yeah USB only a few years ago. Their goal is to write a microkernel OS and figure out how to make it work well for a UNIX like system with far more felxibility. The feature list and malleability of the system is impressive.
If they spent all their times on drivers and none on the base OS, they'd have yet another OS which is quite similar to all the others out there in terms of features. Their goal is not to get acceptance from random bitter blowhards like yourself on the internet.
End result: they've contributed more to the world than you ever will.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
If the problem is solved, then move the development focus elsewhere. And I thought that FSF didn't actually like the idea of GPL2-only things?
However, the FSF development focuses are odd and abandoned.
For years a Skype-replacement was asked for. Apart from game-server-oriented once like Mumble, I can't see a viable OS alternative that works cross-platform, with video, etc. We could say that Jabber's use by Google Chat was the replacement but - again - why are we then continuing on the others?
For years, a Flash replacement was asked for. Last I checked, Gnash could do some things but nowhere near all.
Coreboot was asked for, but it's a REALLY niche project and whether that supports UEFI etc. I don't know.
Google Earth replacements, Matlab replacements, OpenDWG library (odd choice, I think), Oracle Forms replacements, all suffer the same problems.
And "automatic transcribing" is just silly and shouldn't be a priority at all.
The FSF's priorities are basically ignored and people work on what they enjoy working on. That's great and all, but HURD has been a long-time coming and can just barely run something approaching a Linux distribution. Given that it's replacing a kernel only - and userspace can be things like Debian software etc. - that seems an awful long time. Don't even get me started on filesystem or hardware support for Hurd.
Sometimes you just have to say "Oh well", and cut off the project. The people working on it would be much more useful on other projects that may well end up on machines worldwide rather than niche toy projects that have taken decades to get close to fruition. Not all of them would move, of course, but at least some of that talent could re-focus to other projects that are of greater utility.
Linus (impatient with the pace of HURD) developed a quick and dirty kernel that a Unix user land could be built on top of. He took a lot of shortcuts, he didn't think too much about portability and basically just made a beeline for the end line - to get a shell and hence other stuff running over a kernel. The kernel filled out and became portable as the project gained momentum and volunteers.
Whereas HURD got stuck up its own ass for correctness and politics. And that's even before Linux existed as a thing. It's hardly a surprise that when Linux did appear that people jumped ship.
It's true there was a debate about micro kernel designs but that alone doesn't explain HURD's failure.
Does it now support HDDs larger than 2 GB? I'm not even joking here.
Last time I heard (like 10 years ago or so) it was a theorists wet dream but basically unusable.
What's the state of things with Hurd nwo? Is it usefull already?
What are big steps Hurd still needs to take to be ready for prime time?
What are the plans? When are we there?
Please note: I have no problem replacing Unix with something better, like ome coolDMI thing where everything isn't a file but an object and the system is cleanly designed from top to bottom and back. Top notch but everything modifiable. But it has to be real-world usable and useful. Until then I'm sticking with *nix derivates such as OS X on Apple hardware or some x86 Linux like Debian or Ubuntu on ThinkPads.
Could someone give some enlightenment on this issue?
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
No, it does not. The Window Manager have dependency on systemd, not the other way around. If the Gnome developers deciding that they need systemd, it's not systemd fault. You are free to open a bug ticket, but in the end it's the decision of the Gnome developers to use a particular technology.
http://www.mueller-public.de - My site http://www.anr-institute.com/ - Advanced Natural Research Institute