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OSGeo Foundation Up In Arms Over ESRI LAS Lock-In Plans

Posted by timothy on from the now-it's-ours dept.

Bismillah writes: The Open Source Geospatial Foundation is outraged over mapping giant ESRI's latest move which entails vendor lock-in for light detection and ranging (LiDAR) data through its proprietary Optimised LAS format. ESRI is the dominant company in the geospatial data arena, with its ArcGIS mapping platform boasting with over a million users and 350,000 customers.

10 of 35 comments (clear)

  1. Their software cost an arm and both legs yet... by Drakker · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not surprised with this. GIS is almost a mono-culture that has been dominated by ESRI since forever. Their software costs in the thousands, yet crashes all the time and a lot of the included tools just don't work. Some parts of the interface have not changed since the 90s and they keep building on this dysfunctional foundation. Working with ArcGIS is a pain in the rear, yet for a lot of what ESRI software does, there is no alternative. Whenever I can I code my own stuff (using GDAL http://www.gdal.org/) and do all I can in QGIS (http://www.qgis.org/), but for a lot of tasks, you are stuck with ArcGIS and other ESRI tools. The market is more than ready for a new player that will make reliable software (whether commercial or open source, doesn't matter to most as they are used to pay through the roof for ESRI software anyway).

    1. Re:Their software cost an arm and both legs yet... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      Do ESRI actually generate the data? If so, what's the complaint?

      Nature generates the data. ESRI just hoard it.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:Their software cost an arm and both legs yet... by hey! · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Don't forget training and consulting. That brings in quite a bit of revenue too. In my experience most ArcGIS installations aren't actually functional because they don't have people who can work the software. Even after training most installations don't have the personnel to dedicate to keep up with it; they maybe produce a report or two, and then the software sits on the shelf, then they need to send someone else to training.

      In this environment a lot of people using ArcGIS might as well be using QGIS. If there were training and support for QGIS, this would build a user base which would attract developers. I think a lot more could be done in getting users to adopt web based mapping -- WMS and WMF -- too. The web is such moving platform that the kind of desktop based entrenchment ArcGIS enjoys is less significant.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    3. Re:Their software cost an arm and both legs yet... by nava68 · · Score: 3, Informative

      No, but as soon as the Market leader does propagate a new data exchange format, the actual creators of the data (commercial companies as well as state agencies) will follow. ESRIs market share is dominating and unfortunately many GIS users are not interested in open tools. So if a more efficient and comfortable format will be available then the GIS community will willingly accept it - without even considering the problems of a further lock in. In addition to that, the Open Source Geo community is already providing the LASzip format for the same functionality and that format is far superior to the classic one and probably as efficient as the one ESRI is developing - plus it is open, documented and all, albeit so far not subjected to the process of standardization.

    4. Re:Their software cost an arm and both legs yet... by Urban+Nightmare · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I work for a Government Agency that uses ArcGIS for that last 10 or so years. Personally I'm a Linux user and try to use and contribute to open source projects (although lately I haven't been able to). I also use QGIS but find it's not always what I want when it comes to the cartography part of GIS. The maps it produces never seem to be as nice as ArcGIS. Sorry got a little off topic here. What I'm saying is that even though I like and use open source, my bosses don't give a rats ass about it. If you even mention no licensing fees then they think its an inferior product. They have drank the kool-aid, so we pay tens of thousands for licensing of all kinds of products that have the same or better open source alternatives.

      I believe this is also how many other agency view things. They don't care about open source. They just want someone to SELL them what they need.

    5. Re:Their software cost an arm and both legs yet... by Drakker · · Score: 2

      I get what you mean, but these parts of the interface are extremely clunky. But even worse than that, they migrated all their tools to an ActiveX interface that relies on Internet Explorer... and it really isn't all that stable, randomly stopping to work (you have to restart ArcGIS when it happens).

      But even worse than that, it requires IE to be set at the default security level, which is not all that secure. Since I don't use IE, and want to minimize the risks to my lab machine, I usually set it to the maximum security level everywhere, which in effects disables big parts of it. While not as ideal as completely removing the software would be (if it was possible...), it reduces risks considerably. But wait a second... you guessed right. ArcGIS will just not allow you to use any of its built-in tools when you do that. How wonderful. Who's the genius that thought it was a good idea to have such a large piece of software being dependent on the worse web browser ever in existence?

      So while I agree with you that "updating" interfaces can go too far (yucky gnome 3 is a good example), in this case, an update is badly needed. But I suppose they will be forced to do it soon enough, with MS supposedly discontinuing IE and touting their new browser that is possibly not just a fresh coat of paint...

  2. CJMTK - ESRI lock-in, mandated by Congress? by david.emery · · Score: 2

    OK, this is hearsay, but I remember being told maybe 15 years ago that Congress placed language in the DoD budget mandating the use of a Commercial Mapping Toolkit, with language such that only ESRI's product would qualify. What I know is the CJMTK (Commercial Joint Mapping ToolKit) is an ESRI proprietary interface that is mandated for use in DoD systems.

    Since then, it's been difficult to provide alternatives, particularly at the library/component level. Google Earth has gotten some traction, but not as an API but rather as a rendering engine.

  3. Re:Light detection and ranging?? by Fortran+IV · · Score: 2

    ...And the DAR portion of RADAR stood for "Detection And Ranging". So why the nerd rage? Someone just chose to deconstruct a portmanteau into its root elements.

    --
    I figure by 2030 or so my 6-digit UID will be something to brag about.
  4. Nothing new from the ESRI'alites... by dewright_ca · · Score: 2

    This really isn't a new event; just as always with ESRI you will see them partner with business to define a need and then extend those functions to be new tools in their product only to see a short time later a ESRI specific toolset that is given away for free that does what the partner did but locking you into there platform. But in this they drive business away from said partner.

    Having been on this side its hard on a small business to not see them for the predatory company they can be. So many of the "NEW" things I have seen from them in the last 6-7 years are not new but they can spin it to make the followers of the great Redlands Prophets just write blank checks...

    --
    He who is always at the bottom of the distribution list, but needs the information first!
  5. Re:Light detection and ranging?? by DRJlaw · · Score: 2

    Although thought by some to be an acronym of Light Detection And Ranging, the term lidar was actually created as a portmanteau of "light" and "radar."

    Go fuck yourself.

    Although expressly used by many as an acronym of Light Detection And Ranging, the first usage of a term magically enshrines that usage, and no other, as the exclusive meaning of that series of letters for all time.

    Or not.
    Portmanteau, noun, plural portmanteaus, portmanteaux [pawrt-man-tohz, -toh, pohrt-, pawrt-man-tohz, -toh, pohrt-] (Show IPA). Chiefly British
    1. a case or bag to carry clothing in while traveling, especially a leather trunk or suitcase that opens into two halves.
    2. Also called portmanteau word. Linguistics, blend (def 10).

    Lidar was certainly not created as a case or bag of "light" and "radar," and your intended reference to a second meaning is obviously irrelevant because FIRST!