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Traffic App Waze To Alert L.A. Drivers of Kidnappings and Hit-and-Runs

Posted by timothy on from the target-audience-is-rubberneckers dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Traffic-alert app Waze has announced a partnership with Los Angeles to share information on hit-and-runs and kidnappings taking place across the city, alongside traffic data and road closure updates. The deal forms part of a data-sharing agreement between L.A. authorities and the Google-owned tech startup detailed yesterday by the city's mayor Eric Garcetti. He assured that the data provided to the city by Waze would be "aggregated" and completely anonymous. According to the councillor the collaboration was mutually confirmed on Monday following a "very good meeting" between Waze and LAPD chief officer Charlie Beck. This move signals a considerable turn of events after Beck argued at the end of last year that the traffic alert app posed a danger to police due to its ability to track their location. The complaint followed the shooting of two police officers in New York after the shooter used the app to track his targets.

86 comments

  1. Aggregated intelligence by __aabppq7737 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He assured that the data provided to the city by Waze would be "aggregated" and completely anonymous

    It'd be way too easy to combine this "aggregated" intelligence with what "smart" traffic sensors already know to de-anonymize pretty much every piece of data.

    1. Re:Aggregated intelligence by geekmux · · Score: 4, Informative

      He assured that the data provided to the city by Waze would be "aggregated" and completely anonymous

      It'd be way too easy to combine this "aggregated" intelligence with what "smart" traffic sensors already know to de-anonymize pretty much every piece of data.

      Sorry, but with ALL of the ties to an individual (billing, address, Google, Apple, etc.) that your personal cell phone has (also known as the exclusive device Waze runs on), you're not going to convince me for one second that any data streaming from my cell phone is "anonymous".

      No fucking way.

      If more people realized this, we would call out these "aggregated" and "metadata" justifications for what they are; complete and total bullshit.

    2. Re:Aggregated intelligence by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      Soo....are kidnappings such a common occurrence in L.A. that they need an app for this???

      :O

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    3. Re:Aggregated intelligence by sinij · · Score: 1

      Considering amount of tracking it does, I think this is an app to facilitate kidnappings.

    4. Re:Aggregated intelligence by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      It's like "women parking spaces" in parking garages. All they really did around here was making it easier for the pervs to know where to find women, especially those that are easy to frighten.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    5. Re:Aggregated intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was going to ask the same thing! I live in CA so get all the Amber alerts, and am confused on why this called out. Our cell phones can automatically receive Amber alerts so I don't see this doing anything but adding noise. Similarly, the hit and run displays seem to be just adding noise. It's not like you will have enough data on those to report on the suspect vehicle because of app notification.

    6. Re:Aggregated intelligence by adolf · · Score: 1

      Indeed, but this isn't anything new.

      Waze already knows where you are whenever you're using it. It's a critical part of the functionality that allows it to work.

      Furthermore, there's an excellent chance that Google also knows where you are, whether you think they do or not.

      Personally, I'm OK with this at this time. Waze has saved me hours of waiting in traffic on the freeway, and Google's Location History helps me generate accurate invoices without wasting time on note-taking.

      Your opinion may (and perhaps should) vary.

      --
      Kid-proof tablet..
    7. Re:Aggregated intelligence by dave562 · · Score: 1

      I agree with you that you are not anonymous to Google. That is easy enough to deal with. Stop using their services.

      The bigger question is whether or not Google anonymizes your data before sharing it. Just because the data is all there does not mean that it is being shared.

      While Google might provide data along the lines of, "Within the last 30 minutes, 5000 people have averaged 35mph over this 0.1 mile stretch of road" ... They are not going to provide a detailed list of who those 5000 people are, the last time they bought gas, the brand of car they drive, or what they ordered for lunch to any random person who wants that information.

      Are you certain that the data is not being anonymized? In the case of traffic data, it is trivial to do technically. Just write a function to replace the unique ID (cell phone number, ESN, IMSI, whatever) with a random primary key and retain the rest of the data (position, speed, time, etc.)

      Maybe they are breaking it up into two buckets. One is used by Google Now for personal consumption (daily route suggestions). The other goes into the public consumption data (traffic reports).

    8. Re:Aggregated intelligence by dave562 · · Score: 1

      Yes. We usually see Amber Alerts at least once a month. They are usually 'child abductions'. The authorities share the year, make and model of the vehicle plus the license plate number.

    9. Re:Aggregated intelligence by poetmatt · · Score: 1

      This is the actual truth. You are 100% correct.

      It is actually proven that having real time traffic data to make traffic decisions is to the benefit of everyone driving. On the flip side, I don't really like how that equation works out for your personal privacy.

    10. Re:Aggregated intelligence by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      Yes. We usually see Amber Alerts at least once a month. They are usually 'child abductions'. The authorities share the year, make and model of the vehicle plus the license plate number.

      Interesting.

      I'd heard of the amber alert thing, but didn't quite know what it was in practice. I thought it was something just broadcast on the news on TV at night in CA.

      Do any other states have this thing?

      Are child abductions a big problem in CA or is the fear and publicity of them bigger out there than in the rest of the US? Do these Amber Alerts come over your phone? Do you have to subscribe to them or do they authorities throw them out to anyone with a CA cell phone?

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    11. Re:Aggregated intelligence by dave562 · · Score: 2

      We see them on electronic billboards over the freeways. I received one on my phone once upon a time, but it came with the option to unsubscribe from future alerts and I did that.

      I am not sure how big of a problem child abductions really are. My sense is that nine times out of ten they are just custody disputes. Mom / Dad gets upset with their spouse and takes the kid out to run errands / go to the bar. Spouse freaks out and calls the cops. Cops over react and issue Amber Alert.

    12. Re:Aggregated intelligence by geekmux · · Score: 1

      Indeed, but this isn't anything new.

      Waze already knows where you are whenever you're using it. It's a critical part of the functionality that allows it to work.

      Furthermore, there's an excellent chance that Google also knows where you are, whether you think they do or not.

      Personally, I'm OK with this at this time. Waze has saved me hours of waiting in traffic on the freeway, and Google's Location History helps me generate accurate invoices without wasting time on note-taking.

      Your opinion may (and perhaps should) vary.

      Curious if you were aware of how your GPS statistics might be affecting your automobile insurance rates year after year.

      Oh, you have factual proof they are not manipulated by aggregating data from various sources?

      Curious if you were aware of how your medical insurance rates might be affected based on where you travel. Or what food you buy.

      Oh, you have factual proof they are not manipulated by aggregating data from various sources?

      I could go on here, but hopefully you see my point. The reality is you have no damn idea just how much your life is actually affected by corporations aggregating and sharing data like this.

      None of us do.

    13. Re:Aggregated intelligence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What nobody mentions is that damn near all of those abductions are by the other parent, or by another close relative as part of a custody dispute.

      Abductions by strangers are vanishingly rare -- Los Angeles, as the second-largest city in the United States, might see one a year.

  2. But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    Headline: "Traffic App Waze To Alert L.A. Drivers of Kidnappings and Hit-and-Runs"

    Someone seems to have forgotten that using a cell phone while driving is illegal.

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 3, Informative

      Someone seems to have forgotten you can legally use your cell phone as a GPS.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    2. Re:But ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Not quite true. Using a cell phone needs to be "hands free".

    3. Re:But ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Someone seems to have forgotten you can legally use your cell phone as a GPS.

      And Waze has started to quickly grow to be exactly what it is, an app that distracts the shit out of a driver instead of just being a simple GPS.

      But it's cute you want to try and label it this way. I'll remember that when I'm reading about the next fatality due to distracted Waze surfing.

    4. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Here it's an offense even to even have the phone in your hand while driving - and they've just upped it to 4 demerit points. So no, unless the phone is in some sort of a mount, you can't use it as a GPS while driving. Pull over to the side of the road and take the time to figure out where you are so you don't cause an accident.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    5. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      True, but that's been proven to be just as distracting. And worse, most people with bluetooth don't even use it - "Too much of a hassle" - "I'll only be a few seconds (which is several hundred feet)" - "Haven't got caught yet" - "I'll duck my head low so that the cops can't see I'm using it while I'm driving"

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    6. Re:But ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So? Who doesn't use a mount for their phone if they're using it as a gps?

    7. Re:But ... by wonkey_monkey · · Score: 1

      and they've just upped it to 4 demerit points

      They should just fine you 50 quatloos and be done with it.

      --
      systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
    8. Re:But ... by adolf · · Score: 1

      Waze has never been a simple GPS, which is why I use it every time I drive instead of my completely adequate Garmin ("simple GPS") that I haven't used in years.

      --
      Kid-proof tablet..
    9. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      From the number of accidents, a lot of people can't use GPS while driving, no matter where it is in the vehicle. Looking at the GPS screen to figure out where you are takes a lot more time than people imagine.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    10. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Did you get your statisics from back before GPS devices read their instructions out loud?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    11. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Here it's an offense even to even have the phone in your hand while driving - and they've just upped it to 4 demerit points. So no, unless the phone is in some sort of a mount, you can't use it as a GPS while driving.

      I'm not sure why you're saying 'no' here. "In a mount" is exactly how people use their phones for GPS. In other words... yes you bloody well can use your phone this way and it works really well. In fact, California recently made it legal to put a suction cup on your windshield for exactly this reason.

      Pull over to the side of the road and take the time to figure out where you are so you don't cause an accident.

      Could you please go into detail about how you've taken the radio and environmental controls out of your car so you can teach us by example?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    12. Re:But ... by safetyinnumbers · · Score: 1

      And I've seen plenty of people who turn on 'hands free' mode and then hold the phone a few inches away from their head.

    13. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Did you get your statisics from back before GPS devices read their instructions out loud?

      Did you forget how many people had accidents because their GPS said "Turn Right Now", so they did?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    14. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Radio and AC can be worked entirely by feel. You can adjust them without turning on the interior lights - you don't have to take your eyes off the road. Smartphones don't work that way. And the only people I've seen using a mounted GPS were using a tablet, not a phone. And they only used it to figure out their route - not to get instructions in real time.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    15. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Did you forget how many people had accidents because their GPS said "Turn Right Now", so they did?

      Yes I did because that number hasn't even shown statistical significance and is further muddied by people not getting into accidents because they know where they're going, leaving them to pay attention to the little voice instead of craning their necks to find street signs.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    16. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Radio and AC can be worked entirely by feel. You can adjust them without turning on the interior lights - you don't have to take your eyes off the road. Smartphones don't work that way.

      Umm.... Yes, they do. Both Android and iPhone. I'd even wager that modern Windows and Blackberry phones do, too.

      And the only people I've seen using a mounted GPS were using a tablet, not a phone. And they only used it to figure out their route - not to get instructions in real time.

      Welp, that explains why you're so ill-informed on how smartphone-based GPS apps work.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    17. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      . Distracted driving is a real issue, and it's not just GPS - even using bluetooth to take or make a call increases the accident rate significantly.

      not getting into accidents because they know where they're going, leaving them to pay attention to the little voice instead of craning their necks to find street signs.

      ??? Why would people listen to their GPS if they know where they're going? Are they blind:?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    18. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I've tried to use the assistive tech on Android to use my phone by feel - even the learning mode is crap - you can't get out of it, even using your eyes. Have you?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    19. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      . Distracted driving is a real issue, and it's not just GPS - even using bluetooth to take or make a call increases the accident rate significantly.

      Separate topic.

      ??? Why would people listen to their GPS if they know where they're going? Are they blind:?

      ... They know where they're going because they're getting vocal instructions. How can you not understand this??

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    20. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      No. I use Siri on my iPhone and in GPS mode it's completely eyes-free. Everything I've heard says that Android is significantly better in this department.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    21. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      If they knew where they were going, listening to instructions would just be a distraction. If they're using a GPS, it's because they DON'T know where they're going without it. How can you not understand this?

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    22. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Because I've actually used a GPS. The verbal instructions are far less distracting than watching for street signs than looking for traffic. Try it some time.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    23. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Doesn't address my point - if you already knew how to get where you were going you wouldn't need GPS. Listening to it would be a useless distraction.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    24. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      I said they know where they're going because they're being told along the way. Yes, I phrased it poorly. No, it doesn't matter for this conversation.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    25. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      And I'm supposed to be a mind-reader and reply to what you meant instead of what you wrote? There already are enough managers out there that pull that crap. We don't need to add to it.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    26. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      I apologize, I thought I was talking to somebody who has used a GPS before. Would you like me to go in-depth describing what that's like so you can understand enough about this topic to have an informed discussion about it?

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    27. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I've used GPS - my smartphone has it. Your attempts to try to look superior (while also moving the goal posts) because you made a mistake "don't impress me much."

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    28. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      I've used GPS - my smartphone has it.

      You mean you've used it like once or you've actually spent time with it? I'm just asking because you're unaware of the device being hands/eyes-free and oblivious to people using suction mounts.

      Your attempts to try to look superior (while also moving the goal posts) because you made a mistake "don't impress me much."

      ... moving goal posts? Do you really really think I was trying to claim that people listen to GPS directions like they'd listen to a radio in the car? I wouldn't mind, but even after the first correction you even tried to go down the path of saying: "See, that's a distraction!" In all seriousness you'd have to ignore several posts I've made about how GPS's work and how people use them to actually believe that. Moving goal posts, indeed.

      Oh, and speaking of trying to look smarter after a mistake, you've driven us away a few blocks from the topic. Ready to head back, yet? I still haven't heard the details about how you've removed a radio from your car or how you insist that passengers in your car keep their mouths shut, because, you know, you're so worried about distracted driving on the same level as the accidents GPSs cause.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    29. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      You've already shown you intentionally misinterpret stuff. So, please do it again as I say "have a nice day."

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    30. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Heh. Yeah, *I* intentionally misinterpret stuff, that's me doing that in this discussion. Right. Anyway, in case you're curious, where I was going with that is that there are no statistics on GPS-use causing accidents because they fall into the statistical noise of accidents caused by passenger distractions and messing with the radio. It hasn't happened enough to get an actual number on it. Your approach of seeing a few stories on the news and multiplying it by a million turned out to be inaccurate. This is either because you're seriously misinformed or you're such a careful driver that you have useful safety tips to share. (Frankly I was hoping it was the latter.)

          Okay, I'm done, have a nice weekend. :)

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    31. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Am I a careful driver? Well, lets see ... over more than 3 decades of driving, including at least a decade as my job, I've never had an accident, so I'd say that yes, others could take a few safety tips.

      My original point was this: "Someone seems to have forgotten that using a cell phone while driving is illegal." Even if you're using it as a GPS, unless it's mounted, it's illegal. And I haven't seen a single non-commercial vehicle with a phone mount. People just don't buy them. Those that do are "statistical noise." Ask the cops who give out the tickets. If, for example, you're using bluetooth but you pick up the phone to dial a number, you're dead.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    32. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Am I a careful driver? Well, lets see ... over more than 3 decades of driving, including at least a decade as my job, I've never had an accident, so I'd say that yes, others could take a few safety tips.

      We're not so different.

      And I haven't seen a single non-commercial vehicle with a phone mount. People just don't buy them.

      You should visit LA some time. The mounts are all over. You may be confused because they're not always in the window. Most of my coworkers, for example, have their mounts down by the cig charger.

      Ask the cops who give out the tickets. If, for example, you're using bluetooth but you pick up the phone to dial a number, you're dead.

      If by 'dead' you mean "ticketed" then, yep, you're right. That's why the eyes-free mode in the iPhone is used a lot. In LA the ticket is very cheap but the court fees push it up over $300. That has taught everybody I know to behave with their phones. Everybody uses their phone as a GPS in LA.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    33. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      The problem here is that enforcement is haphazard. EVERYONE thinks that "just a few seconds" is okay. Bus drivers, cops, soccer moms, punks in their ricers with the coffee-can exhaust pipes ...

      I can usually tell when someone ahead of me is on the phone - their car slowly drifts left.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    34. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      We're not in disagreement that cell phone use is a dangerous distraction. The people you see drifting to the left, they're not using their GPS. Also, the problem with that sort of observation is that you're not seeing who isn't distracted. It's a bit like trying to determine how many visitors to a website have Javascript disabled... by using Javascript to detect it. "Oh look, 100% of people visiting my site have JS enabled!"

      I do think I've run out of things to say on this topic. Maybe it's time to say agree-to-disagree? Either way, I hope you're having a good weekend.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    35. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      Sure. Actually, I'm watching the news and Bruce Jenner is being used as a jump-off point to a report on the whole trans movement, then hitting the hay. I suspect tomorrow's The View will be interesting.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    36. Re:But ... by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Ah, well I'll tell you something that disheartened me a little. The local radio personalities were talking about Bruce's journey as if it were some sort of publicity stunt, blissfully unaware that if it were it's at least 30 years in the making. That bugs me. I really would prefer that it help the public accept an entrie group of people that are pressured to keep a secret all their lives. We recently had a murder of a transendered person here that was probably motivated by lack of acceptance.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    37. Re:But ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

      I don't think Bruce had many alternatives as to how he handled it - the paparazzi would have been all over this no matter how it was handled, so there was no way of keeping it secret. When that's the case, the brave thing is to embrace it (being out) and be proud of having the courage to do this knowing that it's going to be in the public eye.

      Judging by the almost universal support Jenner is receiving, people like Dr. Phil ("Why bother, he's almost 80") look like neanderthals.

      I don't think he'd agree that someone else who is 65 and needs help for depression or cataract surgery or a hip replacement would say "Why bother, you're almost 80?" Just goes to show that it's okey-dokey in their minds to attack people by catering to base ignorance. In their minds, ageism isn't right - unless you're trans. Sheesh.

      What makes this worse is that there's less than a year between them. A real hypocrite.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
  3. anonymous kidnapping? by Flavianoep · · Score: 1

    How can a system at the same time aggregate and make data anonymous while purposefully alert about hit-and-runs and kidnappings?

    --
    Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
    1. Re:anonymous kidnapping? by Noah+Haders · · Score: 2

      The amber alert notices have license plates and car descriptions. is that what they mean by kidnapping alert? what would be the use of anonymized criminal activity alerts? "keep an eye out for a vehicle in the vicinity of downtown LA!".

    2. Re:anonymous kidnapping? by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

      >> How can a system at the same time aggregate and make data anonymous

      Given existing PC-driven redaction of police reports, I'd expect it to read something like this:

      (race redacted) (gender redacted) (age redacted) adult or child wearing (clothing redacted) and (method of transportation redacted), possibly named (name redacted) wanted as a person of interest in the alleged (incident redacted) that was reported on (date/time redacted) at (place redacted). If you have any information about this alleged incident or this person, please call (main, overloaded and disinterested dispatcher phone number with 30-minute hold time) and remember to obey all police commands at all time.

    3. Re:anonymous kidnapping? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Kidnappers are usually anonymous. That's sort of the key part of any crime, really. Get that wrong and you haven't got much of a career ahead of you.

      --
      https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
    4. Re:anonymous kidnapping? by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      Kidnappers are usually anonymous. That's sort of the key part of any crime, really. Get that wrong and you haven't got much of a career ahead of you.

      that only matters if you let the people go after the ransom is paid...

      alternatively, some people just kidnap themselves, especially if they owe money all over town.

    5. Re:anonymous kidnapping? by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      I suspect actually they aren't. I'd imagine most activities described by law enforcement as "kidnappings" are probably the usual "Divorced parents violating custody rulings" type things.

      It's hard to think "Adults taking adult prisoners who they hold for ransom" type kidnappings occur that frequently in a place like LA.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  4. Barbara Streisand powers ACTIVATE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    thank you, chief beck! prior to your laughable "cop stalking" rank I'd had waze installed but only used a few times but in a deliberate "_F_ _U_!!!" to you & anyone shoveling this line I now use it nearly 100% of the time & just got my sword (make knight) last week! I really appreciate your red herring! I probably still would not be using waze w/o it...

  5. Because we don't crash enough cars... by damn_registrars · · Score: 3

    This app, giving people real time updates on their smart phones, is probably not the best thing we could have for public safety. More than a few knuckleheads would likely think they were doing the right thing by putting it on their phone, until they try to read it while driving and end up causing an accident by way of their distracted driving.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:Because we don't crash enough cars... by BradleyUffner · · Score: 2

      This app, giving people real time updates on their smart phones, is probably not the best thing we could have for public safety. More than a few knuckleheads would likely think they were doing the right thing by putting it on their phone, until they try to read it while driving and end up causing an accident by way of their distracted driving.

      Good thing smart phones have speakers. Waze already make use of audio for turn alerts, they can do they same for Amber alerts.

    2. Re:Because we don't crash enough cars... by C0R1D4N · · Score: 2, Informative

      The numbers of fatal accidents has been decreasing the past thirty years. Cell phones have had no noticeable statistical effect.

    3. Re:Because we don't crash enough cars... by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The numbers of fatal accidents has been decreasing the past thirty years

      I understand that to have more to do with cars being safer than anything else. Anti lock brakes and air bags are now standard in the overwhelming majority of cars on American roads today, amongst other things.

      Cell phones have had no noticeable statistical effect

      If we're talking over the same period of time (30 years as you said earlier) it is impossible for them not to. There were quite nearly zero cell phones in 1985. We now regularly have serious - and sometimes fatal - accidents caused by idiots who believe they can safely read and write text messages on their phones while driving. It appears you are looking at the general downward trend of fatal accidents per capita, and then saying that nothing could possibly have a negative impact on that. That simply doesn't work.

      --
      Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    4. Re:Because we don't crash enough cars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nice cherry picking. You don't have to have a fatal accident for cell phone usage to be dangerous.

      And I can point out the people on the road who are using their cell phone and only paying half-attention to the road. All you have to do is look for behavior that used to be reserved exclusively for confused senior citizen drivers, and you've got your average cell phone talker right there. These days, its actually more rare for me to see a bluehair in that car, rather than some asian female who looks both absolutely frightened of driving her car, but at the same time is jabbering on her phone non-stop.

    5. Re:Because we don't crash enough cars... by C0R1D4N · · Score: 0

      You are assuming that those same people would not be distracted otherwise if they did not have their phone.

    6. Re:Because we don't crash enough cars... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look at motorcycle fatalities, car fatalities go down due to newer safety equipment, but there was a noticeable upturn in motorcycle fatalities around 2000 (when cell phones became popular). The new distraction doesn't kill car drivers, it kills those they hit.

  6. Re:WAZE advertising powers ACTIVATE! by Joreallean · · Score: 1

    FIFY

  7. Re:WAZE advertising powers ACTIVATE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    FIFY?

  8. Escape from LA by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    >> kidnappings

    If you live in a city where "kidnappings" is just considered another statistics...it might be time to move.

  9. i Love L.A. by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    this will be in constant alert status. sorta like a car alarm that no one pays attention to.

  10. Amber Alert anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Is this going to become an extension of the Amber alert system, which I believe research has shown is rarely of use in actual kidnappings and is used mostly in non-violent child custody arguments & runaways? I don't know if they've had a single case where the system has been proven to have saved a child's life.

    1. Re:Amber Alert anyone? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm aware of one, but it wasn't a kidnapping per se. A 15-year-old girl from around here ran away with her 18-year-old boyfriend, leaving behind the medicine that kept a life-threatening medical condition under control.

      (Yes, it was an actual Amber Alert.)

  11. Wrong Approach by CaptainOfSpray · · Score: 1

    Fix the city. Make the app unnecessary.

    --
    "Cock Up Your Beaver" does not mean what you think. This sig is intended to clog filters and annoy do-gooders
  12. The first time it is used, many will disable it. by whoever57 · · Score: 2

    Just like the ability for phones to recieve network-wide notifications, when this capability was used in California, many people turned it off, because the notification was broadcast far too wide -- across all of California for something taking place in San Diego.

    I predict the same for this. The capability will be misused and then disabled by the users of the app.

    --
    The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  13. Re:WAZE advertising powers ACTIVATE! by Anne+Thwacks · · Score: 1

    Is it the new Google phone system?

    --
    Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
  14. L.A. and Waze by technical_maven · · Score: 2

    If the data is as good as it is for accidents, it will be all but worthless... We use Waze in Los Angeles and it will frequently just show "accident" with no indication of exactly where it is, what side of the freeway, and what kind of accident... And more often than not, when you actually get in the area, the data is stale and the accident is long gone but still showing...

  15. That's not at all true by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    I use Waze every time I drive.

    The only alerts that come up are related to hazards you are approaching - which helps driving way mor than it hurts. Often I've been notified if dangerously large potholes, or other problems on the road - I was able to slow down a bit and create a larger gap between myself and other cars so I had room to maneuver.

    There are other ads that come up - but ONLY when you are stopped at a light, and vanish when you start moving. Those are in no way a hazard.

    A kidnapping alert is a tricky thing though - I think it should come up like ads, only when stopped. It's too much to process when driving if it's not directly related to the road ahead.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  16. hysteria on the go by paul+mafinga · · Score: 2

    Most kidnappings are parental custody disputes, and the California system is biased, the legal backwash of the "deadbeat dad" movement.

  17. Waze in LA is dangerous by KoshClassic · · Score: 1

    Using Waze to navigate in LA is terribly unsafe - I live here, I've used it and what typically happens is it diverts you on to side streets, and then from those side streets has you try to make a left hand turn onto a major, busy 8-lane boulevard where there is no traffic signal to help you. In LA, that's legal, but most of us think its dangerous, if not outright suicidal. Worse, instead of left turns, sometimes it tells you to proceed on a side street across such a wide, busy boulevard, again where there's no traffic signal to help you. Nearly everyone who lives here whom I've talked to in person or online and has used Waze has similar experiences to my own and also thinks its dangerous.

    Our mayor ought to be working with Waze so that their navigation algorithm stops offering such 'advice', for the safety of everyone. Barring that, the city ought to send Waze data on traffic accidents they've caused, and Waze, in turn, can send the city a warning every time it suggests such an unsafe move to a driver so that ambulances can be dispatched preemptively.

    Beyond that, most of Waze's detours on to side streets are in to neighborhoods that used to see only minimal vehicular traffic before Waze came along. They've got noticably more traffic now, and the folks that in these areas are upset. A lot more dangerous for their kids to play on the street, for one thing, and of course their neighborhoods aren't as quiet any more. Personally I think we all pay taxes for all these streets, so we ought to be able to use them as we please, but these people do have some valid points and there's no denying Waze's impact on traffic patterns where they live.

    --
    Understanding is a three edged sword. - Ambassador Kosh Naranek, Babylon 5
    1. Re:Waze in LA is dangerous by dave562 · · Score: 2

      They also seem to have implemented what I am calling the "Dick Move" algorithm. The dick move is using the exit lane to pass people.

      For example, I was traveling north on the 405 to Santa Monica. When I got to LAX, they told me to take Century Boulevard off ramp.... and then merge back onto the 405. It was a great move and let me bypass about a mile of bumper to bumper traffic. At the same time, I think most people agree that doing that is a dick move.

    2. Re:Waze in LA is dangerous by KoshClassic · · Score: 1

      Interesting to know that, I've never seen it do that - in fact I'm surprised that it is aware of the difference in traffic congestion between two parallel lanes on the same freeway - usually people's cell phones can't determine their location with such precision as to differentiate between different lanes on the same road.

      --
      Understanding is a three edged sword. - Ambassador Kosh Naranek, Babylon 5
    3. Re:Waze in LA is dangerous by Ormy · · Score: 1

      The dick move is using the exit lane to pass people.

      Although the slip roads (on ramps and off ramps for you yanks) are typically much shorter in the UK, people do this all the time, in London especially, and it is indeed a dick move. If one person does it they save a bit of time and it doesn't affect anyone else, but if more people do it they save less time and it slows everyone else down. I and a lot of other drivers just stubbornly refuse to let them merge back in, but there's always going to be someone idiot who will let you in.

    4. Re:Waze in LA is dangerous by dave562 · · Score: 1

      It is a bit of an interesting situation because the Century Boulevard exit shares the transition lanes from the 105 onto the 405. So from the Waze POV it probably saw it as the "105 Freeway" and noticed that it was less congested than the 405. Having said that, the instructions were "Take Century Boulevard exit" and not "Merge onto 105 transition".

      This should link to the area. The exit is basically at the 105 and I merged back onto the 405 near W Arbor Vitae St

      https://www.google.com/maps/@3...

    5. Re:Waze in LA is dangerous by dfm3 · · Score: 1

      I have some experience editing the Waze map, but I don't have edit rights in LA. Waze has algorithms that are *supposed* to prevent routes like that from being generated (that is, you aren't supposed to be routed onto a ramp then back onto the same freeway you exited from) but sometimes in more complicated situations it doesn't always work right. We've also recently been seeing issues with drivers being directed to turn right at a traffic light and make a u-turn rather than wait for a left turn arrow, but this was described as a bug rather than a feature (and I'd feel like a jerk for driving like that).

      Actually, looking at the roads in the Waze Map Editor (login required) I see something that *might* trick the routing server into thinking that the section of the 405 you exited from is a different freeway from the section you merged back on to, but I'd have to ask someone with more experience to take a look.

      Waze also has an in-app feature to report a map issue from the reports screen if you are given a funny route; the report will log debug information so that an editor can review the issue.

  18. The countdown by Tyrannicsupremacy · · Score: 0

    How soon until the software gets called racist for pointing out the embarrassing elephant in the room?

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    http://i.cubeupload.com/T6cyLu.png
  19. Bogus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "New York after the shooter used the app to track his targets."

    I read somewhere that this claim was completely bogus.