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Feds Say It's Time To Cut Back On Fluoride In Drinking Water

An anonymous reader writes: Federal health officials Monday changed the recommended amount of fluoride in drinking water for the first time since 1962, cutting by almost half the maximum amount of fluoride that should be added to drinking supplies. The Department of Health and Human Services recommended 0.7 milligrams of fluoride per liter of water instead of the long-standing range of 0.7 to 1.2 milligrams. The change is recommended because now Americans have access to more sources of fluoride, such as toothpaste and mouth rinses, than they did when fluoridation was first introduced in the United States,' Dr. Boris Lushniak, the deputy surgeon general, told reporters during a conference call.

58 of 314 comments (clear)

  1. It's finally time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    It's finally time we embraced "The Big Book of British Smiles" on this side of the pond!

    1. Re:It's finally time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Britain has better dental health than the USA. But keep peddling that century old myth if it makes you feel better.

    2. Re:It's finally time by Chrisq · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Britain has better dental health than the USA. But keep peddling that century old myth if it makes you feel better.

      My wife is American and finds this particularly funny. When she came to the UK she had a lot of treatment that she could not have afforded in the USA, and our daughter has orthodontic treatment without charge - and some of her relatives who have had teeth removed because they could not afford treatment still make jokes about British teeth

    3. Re:It's finally time by Lumpy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Here in the USA Dental health is looked at as a luxury. Dentists fight like hell to keep costs high and insurance crappy.

      It's a crime that most americans have almost no dental care they can afford. Yes most. you have to count the 90% that make less than $65,000 a year.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    4. Re:It's finally time by DocSavage64109 · · Score: 2

      What? You guys must be anomalies, because every single medieval movie set in Britain I've seen has lots of people missing teeth.

    5. Re:It's finally time by johnlcallaway · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dental health is a service provided by people who spend money to outfit dental clinics. Same as medical professionals. As such, the market dictates the availability and costs. Instead of the government, which is the way it should be. It's amazing to me the number of people who think the government, who can't seem to run anything well, should be running healthcare and dental care. Just so a small minority of the population can afford something. Rather than provide services that only that small portion of the population can use if they choose to.

      Insurance is 'crappy' because the most expensive treatments are cosmetic and most insurance won't cover more than 50%. Same as health regular insurance, it doesn't cover many cosmetic treatments. Because, if it did, insurance rates would go up to cover the increased costs. Providing orthodontic coverage for anyone other than those with serious misalignment places a large monetary burden on everyone else, just so they can look pretty. Why should I have pay for someone to have a pretty smile?? Letting me decide what insurance I want is the best way to provide efficient coverage without further driving up demand and costs.

      You see that in the medical field. Breast augmentations are covered as the result of cancer treatments, not simply because someone got old. Cataract surgery isn't covered until it affects ones ability to drive, not because someone just wants to see better.

      Many companies provide dental insurance as an inexpensive benefit. It's inexpensive because most people CHOOSE to not use it.

      --
      I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
    6. Re:It's finally time by king+neckbeard · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The reason that Americans say Brits have bad teeth is because of whiteness and straightness, neither of which has much to do with number of cavities. There, the mystery is solved. Also, there's the distinct possibility that Brits today care more about their dental health because it was so shitty, either in aesthetics or health, for so long.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    7. Re:It's finally time by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      There was a study posted on Slashdot about this myth a few years ago. They concluded that Americans care more about their teeth because good dental care is expensive and so is a status symbol. Having few teeth is one of the stereotypes of poor/stupid people in the US. Middle class and aspiring middle class people in the US spend money on their teeth (cosmetically, at least) because if they don't then they look poor. For people in the UK, anyone can afford good dental care (for a while, it was easier for very poor people to because a lot of dentists weren't taking new NHS customers except under duress and people on certain forms of income support had guaranteed treatment), so going to the dentist is just seen as a chore and often slipped down priorities.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:It's finally time by xaxa · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Dental health is a service provided by people who spend money to outfit dental clinics. Same as medical professionals. As such, the market dictates the availability and costs.

      Fire fighting service is [etc, etc].

      It's amazing to me the number of people who think the government, who can't seem to run anything well,

      That's a very American viewpoint. In other countries, government functions well. In others, it does well with some things, and badly at others.

      Why should I have pay for someone to have a pretty smile??

      Because they'll pay for you to have something you'd argue isn't essential, like fire protection, food safety, fertility treatments, counselling, etc.

      Cataract surgery isn't covered until it affects ones ability to drive, not because someone just wants to see better.

      My grandma is booked for cataract surgery in May. She's still OK to drive, the medical benefit is currently justified for her mental health (she's lost confidence with worsening sight). It's free on the NHS.

    9. Re:It's finally time by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's amazing to me the number of people who think the government, who can't seem to run anything well, should be running healthcare and dental care.

      Tell that to the people of Norway,New Zealand,Japan,Belgium,United Kingdom, Kuwait, Sweden, Bahrain, Brunei, Canada, Netherlands, Austria, United Arab Emirates, Finland, Denmark, Luxembourg, France, Australia, Ireland, Italy, Portugal, Cyprus, Greece, Spain, South Korea, Iceland, Hong Kong, Singapore, Switzerland and Israel, all of whom have had government run health care for at least 20 years, some going back as far as 1938.

      And most of those countries have higher-rated health care systems than the US and eleven of those countries have greater levels of economic freedom and social mobility than the US.

      So you might want to take your tired tropes to the back yard and put them out of their misery.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    10. Re:It's finally time by rs79 · · Score: 4, Funny

      Ayn Rand used meth, not pot.

      --
      Need Mercedes parts ?
    11. Re: It's finally time by O('_')O_Bush · · Score: 2

      Hah, you though Americans made fun of the Brits because their teeth were unhealthy. How ignorant. No, Americans make fun of Brits because their teeth are ugly and obviously so.

      --
      while(1) attack(People.Sandy);
    12. Re:It's finally time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      The UK citizen pays a third per person for health care in comparison to a US citizen, there is 100% coverage of the population, and the health outcomes are better.

      Care to explain what's going wrong exactly?

    13. Re:It's finally time by Ramze · · Score: 4, Informative

      That is such a naive post, I don't know where to begin. I guess I'll bypass the "government doesn't do anything well" BS (firefighters, US Mail, EMS services, public water/sewer systems, uncountable other examples prove you wrong)... But, apparently, every industrialized country other than the USA either has free healthcare or a hybrid system like Australia with a combination of free care plus private.

      Let's move on to this mythical health "market" you mention. Markets require competition to work. Most areas only have one or two hospitals within the geographic region which can provide most health care services. That's not a free market... it's a monopoly or oligopoly. Monopolies and Oligopolies require government oversight because they tend to abuse their power. Granted, the Dentistry market is far more competitive than say, thoracic surgery.

      Still, Insurance isn't a market either. It's also an oligopoly situation where you have to have one of the major carriers to have health providers ACCEPT the coverage you have -- and picking an insurance carrier may give you perks with one hospital or other health care provider, but none with another, so this also limits your market choices. Health care providers are not required to accept your insurance.

      So, let's talk about pricing - you won't find it listed most places. It's complex... it's deceitful - intentionally. If you have no insurance, you have one price. If you have insurance, it's another price. Then, when billed, you pay a different amount and the insurance company pays the rest -- but not actually. You see, the insurance company negotiates the prices. Say you have a bill for $100K. You pay $5K, the insurance company pays $45K, and the rest just goes unpaid, yet considered to be paid in full. Another individual who has no insurance gets the bill for the full amount - OR if the physician knows in advance you have no insurance will sometimes negotiate a different price - sometimes much lower than what they'd have gotten from the insurance company.

      Doctors HATE the insurance companies. They have to hire lots of staff for medical coding to report correctly to insurance companies, fight with them over the billing, and often get paid late -if at all. Doctors also have high malpractice insurance bills and high medical school loan bills. Many other countries don't have these issues -- they even send their doctors to medical school for next to nothing - imagine that! It drives the cost of being a doctor down, increases supply of doctors and drives the costs of medical care down along with it.

      The USA medical system is a mess. I'm not a doctor myself, but I have many family and friends in the medical field. They would LOVE a single payer system to simplify everything. They could have less staff because there's no need to deal with multiple insurance companies, less confusion on pricing, and more customers as everyone is covered. Government health insurance doesn't have to be government run healthcare - just insurance. Why have thousands of companies complicating everything when one agency could give you insurance right out of your paycheck with your taxes (just like a company benefit would), and you're insured everywhere for everything except cosmetic surgeries beyond dental. But, I digress.

      I'm not sure what dental plans you're concerned about. Most don't cover things like crowns and Hollywood veneers. Most cover regular checkups and fillings - maybe braces for kids if you pay extra. That's not a huge burden on the USA economy... not with 15 Trillion in debt - mostly spent on the military.

    14. Re:It's finally time by Totenglocke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      and our daughter has orthodontic treatment without charge

      I have to be "that guy". You were charged - and quite a bit for it, they just didn't hand you a bill after you received the service. When you factor in all taxes (VAT, fuel tax, TV tax, income tax, NHS tax, etc) even the lowest tax bracket in the UK is paying roughly 50% of their income in taxes.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    15. Re:It's finally time by Totenglocke · · Score: 3

      That's a load of crap. Dental insurance (even without an employer plan) is incredibly cheap and covers a thorough cleaning every six months. If you skip the cleanings (which you won't be charged extra for, just the usual monthly insurance payment) then yes, you'll need to get expensive procedures done - but that's your own damn fault for skipping preventative maintenance that wouldn't cost you anything extra.

      --
      "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." ~Thomas Jefferson
    16. Re:It's finally time by Major+Blud · · Score: 2

      "mostly spent on the military."

      Although military spending is a nice chunk of the federal budget, most of it is spent on Social Security and Medicare:

      https://static.nationalpriorit...

      --
      If you post as Anonymous Coward, don't expect a reply.
    17. Re:It's finally time by jythie · · Score: 2

      I suspect the reason so many people believe that the government does not 'function well' is that they do not understand what is function is. It is kinda like complaining how lousy a car is at sailing down a river. Of course it sucks at it, that isn't what it was designed for, and that job is already done well by boats.

    18. Re:It's finally time by Penguinisto · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Thing is, they can afford it whereas the US cannot. This is largely due to the demographics of these nations, the fact that their defense budgets are largely carried by NATO/Treaty/aid/etc (read: the US is paying for and/or providing a very significant percentage of it, even if indirectly), immigration laws are uber-strict (which cuts down on the flood of low/no-income users of the system), and because each has a relatively low population that is densely packed when compared to the US (which means you don't need so many clinics, doctors, specialties, etc). In spite of this, many of the nations you list are already under moderate to severe economic crisis in spite of that...

      Meanwhile, if the US were to adopt such a system, or if the US DoD stopped providing direct/indirect military defense for these nations in order to afford such a system, a whole lot of economies would collapse within 10-15 years, maximum - the economies of both sides would be radically hamstrung under either condition.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    19. Re:It's finally time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Thing is, they can afford it whereas the US cannot.

      That's just incorrect. The British NHS, for example, costs 6.5% of GDP. In the US, we spend over 17% of GDP on health. It's astounding how little value we get for all that extra cost. Then you think of all the layers of bureaucracy in all the insurance providers and some of it makes sense.

    20. Re:It's finally time by NatasRevol · · Score: 3, Funny

      That explains the teeth...

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    21. Re:It's finally time by xaxa · · Score: 2, Insightful

      My point was to show there are many options between "everything" and "nothing" provided by the state. I don't really care to discuss it further.

      (PS "counselling" is correct English.)

    22. Re:It's finally time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      On the topic of medicine in the US not being a free market, the AMA (for medical doctors) and the ADA (for dentists) are essentially guilds. Very much good has come from their existence, such as standardization of medical education and enforcement of minimal qualifications, but the economics surrounding medicine are also directed almost exclusively by the guild. Supply of practitioners is deliberately limited to keep pay high (this is managed much better by the AMA than the ADA, who prefers a boom-bust cycle that results in dental schools closing and reopening).

    23. Re:It's finally time by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Informative

      Thing is, they can afford it whereas the US cannot.

      That's horseshit. Remember, the US, the largest economy in the world has been spending a significantly larger percentage of their GDP on health care than the other countries prior to 2012 (last statistics I could find) and getting poorer outcomes.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    24. Re:It's finally time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Utter bullshit. US spends more taxpayer money per capita on healthcare than any other nation. So clearly US could afford the same kind of healthcare system, it's only a matter of political will. National health care (single payer) systems are *cheaper* than what the US does because there's less organizational overhead and corruption. The existing US Medicare system is a hugely successful example of this, providing good health care with minimal overhead/waste in comparison to the "private" sector. If it was extended to cover everybody, we would spend less taxpayer money on healthcare and have a healthier, more productive population. But there are too many people making a good living saying "OMG Teh Communists!" on television for this to ever happen.

    25. Re:It's finally time by Knuckles · · Score: 2

      ...and while it's nice that your granny is getting the surgery, I completely fail to see how "lost confidence" is justification for physical surgery, let alone having it become sufficient justification for payment from the public purse.

      It's called prevention. If it diminishes the chances that due to lost confidence she will lose her abilities earlier, fall and break her hip requiring more expensive surgery, and require many more years of care, it may well be economically worth it. If helping out your eldery as a matter of course doesn't do it for you, or the fact that life is nicer with less miserable people around you.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    26. Re:It's finally time by Ksevio · · Score: 2

      Although military spending is a nice chunk of the federal budget, most of it is spent on Social Security and Medicare:

      That's a point some people have been pushing hard to get out there, but those programs are both funded separately from the rest of the budget so they are really not relevant when looking at spending/debt.

    27. Re:It's finally time by Kabukiwookie · · Score: 2

      Yes and the cost of insurance for citizens has gone through the roof since then, while the insurance companies have been making record profits year after year, while at the same time every year that same insurance gets you less and less coverage.

      Obviously the market at work.

      Capitalism should provide competition in a free market (which itself is a fiction, so the whole concept is flawed to begin with), on top of that it assumes that sellers will provide the least amount of service/product for the maximum amount of money.

      See how that works out when healthcare is the service.

      --
      The mountains of madness have many little plateaus of sanity - Terry Pratchett.
  2. Bodyly fluids by Flavianoep · · Score: 3, Funny

    Too little, too late , I've already started the attack on the Commies.
    ---Brigadier General Jack D. Ripper

    --
    Linux is for people who don't mind RTFM.
    1. Re:Bodyly fluids by DrStrangluv · · Score: 2

      That's why you should only drink distilled water, or rainwater, and only pure-grain alcohol.

    2. Re:Bodyly fluids by Gruturo · · Score: 2

      I salute you and your superior timing, General.

      Purity
      Of
      Essence

      Peace
      On
      Earth

      --

      Vacuum cleaners suck. Kings rule.
  3. After decades of research by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    We've found it takes far less to mind control the population, so we figure we should save some money.

  4. Gen. Ripper by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous communist plot we have ever had to face.

  5. Jenny McCarthy Says It Turned Her Kid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Into a grotesque mutant.

    1. Re:Jenny McCarthy Says It Turned Her Kid by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 3, Funny

      No, he got that from her.

  6. Re:Its about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    No they didn't. Some individual countries may have discontinued it, but it's still common in Europe as a whole.

  7. Re:This is going to be fun by geekmux · · Score: 3, Informative

    Conspiratards are already typing off their fingers.

    Perhaps the only conspiracy here is ignorance.

    There are already quite a few areas in the US that removed fluoride from the water supply. Many are likely not even aware if their local county does or not.

  8. If they were really concerned... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    .. about dental health, they limit the amount of Corn Syrup, and HFCS that exists throughout the US food supply!

    Sugar is still sugar! It doesn't have to be white and bleached, for it to decay your teeth!

    1. Re:If they were really concerned... by g0bshiTe · · Score: 2

      I realize this is correlation vs causation but have their been any studies linking obesity with the widespread use of corn syrup in place of real sugar?

      I know I prefer the taste of soda made with real sugar vs the same brand made with corn syrup. I also have realized since I switched back to a "throwback" run of my favorite soda I am drinking less soda overall. At night I have 2 12 ounce sodas with real sugar vs a few years ago where I'd have 4 - 5 a night of the corn syrup stuff. A typical weekend day and night, I might have 4 throughout the entire day and evening.

      --
      I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
    2. Re:If they were really concerned... by blue9steel · · Score: 2

      I realize this is correlation vs causation but have their been any studies linking obesity with the widespread use of corn syrup in place of real sugar?

      When compared with "real sugar", sucrose in other words, it doesn't make much difference. It's 55% fructose instead of 50%. There are two main problems:

      1) HFCS replaced Dextrose as the main industrial sweetener, which vastly increased fructose consumption

      2) Overall added sugar levels have risen dramatically

      The problem is that fructose can only be processed in the liver and when you get too much it increases triglyceride levels in the bloodstream which helps to create leptin resistance, which in turn makes you hungrier. All this is great for profits but not so good for human health. It's not that fructose is bad, it's just that our consumption levels have risen to a point our bodies aren't really ready for.

  9. Re:Its about time by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Europe banned Fluoride in drinking water since at least the 1980's.

    And all their teeth fell out! ;) Just kidding, they got refrigeration too.

    The biggest risk is that fluoride is not fluoride. Sodium fluoride dissociates well, but most water supplies use silicofluorides that don't, and they cause heavy metals to cross the blood-brain barrier because the silicofluoride compounds interact biologically.

    The dominant fluoridation chemical is actually toxic waste from fertilizer plant smokestack scrubbers that would have a real disposal problem if there weren't municipal water supplies to dump it in.

    And those problems don't even touch on osteoporosis, the economic problems with watering one's lawn with fluoridated water, or the moral issue of involuntary medication.

    I've got cavity-free kids on well water. Toothpaste with xylitol (birch/watermelon sugar alcohol) is the simple answer. In Scandinavia they give the kids a couple pieces of xylitol gum with their school lunch - far more economical than the US system and with fewer risks. But in the US, government programs are a secular religion that may only ever be tweaked, not found to be foolhardy.

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
  10. Re:This is about money by Smidge204 · · Score: 2

    Too much fluoride causes tooth discoloration (fluorosis). It's harmless but unsightly.

    But that aside, I wonder what's less expensive: Fluoridation programs, or dental treatment for the extra problems that would arise from stopping fluoridation. That would be an interesting study to thumb through...
    =Smidge=

  11. So that explains Baltimore! by Immerial · · Score: 2

    Hmmm, is this tin foil hat getting a little tight or is it me? [passes out]

  12. Re:Its about time by ledow · · Score: 3, Informative

    [Citation required]

    Don't conflate "some European countries" with "the whole of Europe including the UK", for example.

  13. Re:Its about time by BonThomme · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Out of a population of about three-fourths of a billion, under 14 million people in Europe receive artificially-fluoridated water."

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluoridation_by_country

    You might ask yourself why you've embraced a myth.

  14. Re:This is going to be fun by TWX · · Score: 4, Funny

    Conspiratards are already typing off their fingers.

    At least they're not going on about attacking the communists over their precious bodily fluids...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  15. Re:This is about money by Lumpy · · Score: 2

    Handling of the HYDROFLUOROSILICIC ACID is difficult. It eats through everything, even glass eventually. Tanks need replacement regularly, you have to wear hazmat suits when working around it... Go ahead get a little bit on you... it burns like hell and cant be neutralized.

    This is the primary reason coupled with the fact that most kids have easy access to fluoride rinses and toothpaste. No reason to go with a preventative dones and scale back to a maintenance dosage.

    Plus the crap is getting expensive to buy and truck. When I worked at a water filtration plant a semi truck load delivery was an expensive event, and that was 15 years ago. Today it's worse with the OMG WE ALL GONNA DIE OSHA standards for safety.

    --
    Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
  16. Government Conspiracy. by jimbob6 · · Score: 2

    Oh on! There taking the fluoride out of our drinking water! It's a government conspiracy to reduce oral hygiene in rural areas. This will help prop up the 1% by increasing the wealth disparity. It will also help kill off the poor by allowing more bacteria to grow in the water. not do mention deaths from oral infections. Those bastards won't stop until were all dead!

  17. Just for context by avandesande · · Score: 2

    I couldn't find a better map, but fluoride can always be found in meaningful amounts naturally in groundwater.

    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi...

    --
    love is just extroverted narcissism
  18. Just get rid of it by gerardrj · · Score: 3, Informative

    Fluoride in water always sounds good to people who want "better smiles" but it's 99% a waste of the money spent:

    1. The version of fluoride they put in the water (Hexafluorosilicic acid) is not shown to help with dental decay issues. Sodium Fluoride is the chemical the ADA studies and recommends for toothpaste and dental products.

    2. Hexafluorosilicic acid is a product manufactured from industrial waste in the aluminum industry and is considered a toxic substance. If industry hadn't conned municipalities in to putting it in the water supply as a "fluoride source" it would cost them a good chunk of change to dispose of the stuff. (Look up ALCOA and fluoride).

    3. Consumption of unfiltered tap water, I'd say, is just about zero. I know no-one that drinks any substantive quantity of tap water that the fluoride content in it would ever have any clinical effect. Almost any filter designed to remove impurities will remove the fluoride from tap water.

    4. Even if people were drinking only tap water, over 95% of the water used in an average municipality is very consumed by any living thing. It washes cars, waters lawns, bathes people, flushes toilets, cools industrial equipment, etc.

    5. When I had this discussion with my town a few years ago asking them to provide numbers they told my it cost $63,000 a year in product and personnel to run the fluoridation system for 29.5 million gallons of potable water. That sounds like very little, .2 cents ($.002) per thousand gallons or an average of about $.30 per family per month. Sure when you make the numbers small it doesn't look like much, but think about what $63,000 a year gets if directed an other programs in a town. Another teacher or two? Extended library hours on the weekends? A new after school program?

    6. No-one, I mean I searched hard, has studied the rate of change in a community pre and post fluoridation of tap water since an initial study of Grand Rapids and Muskegon in 1945. A study that was ended prematurely but touted as a success anyway despite its very unscientific lack of compensating for outside factors not related to the study itself and the "control" changing programs during the study.

    7. The Grand Rapids "study" was based upon Sodium Fluoride, which again is not what we put in the water today. So even if the result was positive the hexafluorosilicic acid used today has never been studied for prevention of tooth decay in municipal water supplies and is a very different chemical compound just like Carbon Monoxide and Carbon Dioxide are very different chemicals. Search for

    8. There is no version of any type of fluoride that is indicated by the FDA for the prevention of tooth decay. The municipal water companies are adding an non-FDA approved and unregulated drug to our water supply. The other substance added to water supplies (chlorine to be simple) is approved by the FDA for water and food sanitation.

    As you can see, there is simply no supporting truth to the argument that fluoride in municipal water prevents tooth decay. It does cost a significant amount of money, and almost no-one drinks the fluoridated water anyway.

    Do your own research. You will come to the same conclusion: municipal water fluoridation is based on lies, it's a waste of money, it doesn't work and it may actually cause harm to public health.

    --
    Article X: The powers not delegated... by the Constitution...are reserved...to the people
    1. Re:Just get rid of it by dwillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Funny, medical experts disagree with you. So please post your training so we can compare it with that of the deputy Surgeon General.

      --
      I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
    2. Re:Just get rid of it by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Logical fallacy, appeal to authority.

      You can look up his claims and either agree with them or not, but you didn't do that at all.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:Just get rid of it by 0xdeadbeef · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Fallacy fallacy, appeal to fallacy.

      I suppose this means I win.

      The anti-fluoride people are cranks and we're under no obligation to entertain them. Like creationists, merely arguing with them gives them more credibility than they had before.

    4. Re:Just get rid of it by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 3, Interesting

      1. The version of fluoride they put in the water

      Who is they? In my country we use different types of flouride depending on location.

      2. Hexafluorosilicic acid is a product manufactured from industrial waste in the aluminum industry and is considered a toxic substance. If industry hadn't conned municipalities in to putting it in the water supply as a "fluoride source" it would cost them a good chunk of change to dispose of the stuff. (Look up ALCOA and fluoride).

      Lies. It's only becomes an issue in gas form, which is going to be hard when saturated 1 ppm in water.

      3. Consumption of unfiltered tap water, I'd say, is just about zero. I know no-one that drinks

      Good thing that science uses techniques other than your personal experience. This research found at least 25% of bottled water contained tap water. How does that fit into your experience now?

      4. Even if people were drinking only tap water, over 95% of the water used in an average municipality is very consumed by any living thing. It washes cars, waters lawns, bathes people, flushes toilets, cools industrial equipment, etc.

      And?

      5. When I had this discussion with my town a few years ago asking them to provide numbers they told my it cost $63,000 a year

      You didn't mention how many people in your town. If $63000 save 60 people's teeth from rotting then I'd say it's a net gain. Average cost for fluoridation is $1 per person per year. Trivial when you consider the cost of dental care.

      6. No-one, I mean I searched hard, has studied the rate of change in a community pre and post fluoridation of tap water

      Ask and you shall receive: http://www.health.nsw.gov.au/e...

      7. The Grand Rapids "study" was based upon Sodium Fluoride, which again is not what we put in the water today. So even if the result was positive the hexafluorosilicic acid used today has never been studied for prevention of tooth decay in municipal water supplies and is a very different chemical compound just like Carbon Monoxide and Carbon Dioxide are very different chemicals. Search for

      So use another study instead, or better, conduct your own.

      8. There is no version of any type of fluoride that is indicated by the FDA for the prevention of tooth decay. The municipal water companies are adding an non-FDA approved and unregulated drug to our water supply. The other substance added to water supplies (chlorine to be simple) is approved by the FDA for water and food sanitation.

      As you can see, there is simply no supporting truth to the argument that fluoride in municipal water prevents tooth decay. It does cost a significant amount of money, and almost no-one drinks the fluoridated water anyway.

      Do your own research. You will come to the same conclusion: municipal water fluoridation is based on lies, it's a waste of money, it doesn't work and it may actually cause harm to public health.

      $1 per person is not significant. You probably spent more on your membership fees to the Tinfoil Hat Convention.

  19. Re:Drinking water? by MorePower · · Score: 2

    Yes but water that's bottled from tap water is filtered first, removing the fluoride (and chlorine and whatever else is in the tap water). That's why it tastes better than the tap water and they are able to get money for it.

  20. Decades of fouride tapering needed by laughingskeptic · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I believe back in the 90's activists in some U.S. cities got their cities to stop adding fluoride to the supplies. Bad mineral exchanges immediately started to occur in the piping because of the accumulated minerals in the pipes which included a fluoride component started reacting with the water that no longer contained fluoride causing the water to become contaminated by minerals other than just fluoride. The water not only tasted bad, it was determined that it was not safe to drink.

    It takes decades for the minerals in the piping to accumulate and it will take decades to slowly taper fluoride away if we want to avoid unintended consequences. I know the mineral content of water varies widely across supply sources so some cities may have no related problems and some could have severe problems.

  21. Yes it does make a difference. by denzacar · · Score: 2

    When compared with "real sugar", sucrose in other words, it doesn't make much difference. It's 55% fructose instead of 50%.

    HFCS 55 - one used in sodas, is 55 parts fructose, 42 parts glucose.
    Sucrose - plain sugar, is 50 parts fructose and 50 parts glucose.

    Our brains only measure the glucose intake, cause that is the sugar we start burning the moment it hits the bloodstream. We even absorb it directly through the oral cavity - hence oral glucose gel for diabetics.
    When we hit optimal glucose the brain tells the body it had enough.

    So, if optimal glucose is (some) 100 parts, that means that using sucrose, one would take in 100 parts of fructose and 100 parts of glucose.
    To get to the same level of glucose satiety (those same 100 parts) with HFCS 55, one would take in 131 parts of fructose for every 100 parts of glucose.

    Then all that fructose, as Al Green puts it, gets taken to the liver.

    --
    Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
  22. Re: This is going to be fun by Chalnoth · · Score: 3, Informative