White House Outsources K-12 CS Education To Infosys Charity

theodp writes: In December, the White House praised the leadership of Code.org for their efforts to get more computer science into K-12 schools, which were bankrolled by $20 million in philanthropic contributions from the likes of Google, Microsoft, Bill Gates, Steve Ballmer, and Mark Zuckerberg. On Monday, it was announced that Infosys Foundation USA will be partnering with Code.org to bring CS education to millions of U.S. students. Infosys Foundation USA Chair Vandana Sikka, who joins execs from Microsoft, Google, and Amazon execs on Code.org's Board, is the spouse of Infosys CEO Vishal Sikka. The announcement from the tax-deductible charity comes as India-based Infosys finds itself scrutinized by U.S. Senators over allegations of H-1B visa program abuses.

Comments

The Irony

[Anonymous Coward]

My head just assploded from the irony.

Typical

[Anonymous Coward]

Tone deaf politicians.

taught by your replacement

[OffTheLip]

Ironic that the teachers will the one's taking your job.

Free Markets 101

[jalfreize]

The US preaches free markets to the rest of the world, yet the IT programmers there seem to think they are entitled to a monopoly on jobs.
I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply.
Why are IT workers so threatened by this? Is it insecurity about their skills or ability to compete?

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing US workers can't compete on in price. In quality we're lightyears ahead of the average H1-B. IT "staff" actually grow in size when you H1-B in most cases because you need more people to do the same job. They still cost less though because you can pay them dirt and not have to worry about benefits.

Re: Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

There is no free market. Companies want free markets to drive wages down but they want protection for their products. Capital can move easily, labor cannot. If by 'can't compete' you mean 'can't live on a couple of dollars per day' then yes, the US economy doesn't work like that.

As to skills, people in other countries run about the same distribution of really smart and total idiots as anywhere else all other things being equal. However, rampant cheating and resume inflating are accepted in certain cultures, accepted by certain outsourcing companies, and that results in a supply of labor that ought not be in the market at all.

One free market principle is that participants have access to accurate information, and of course corporations go to great lengths to make sure you don't.

Re:Free Markets 101

[serviscope_minor]

Maybe IT workers aren't all dumb enough to worship the free market?

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not insecurity about skills at all. In fact, they often have far superior skills and abilities. The problem is price. I'm not personally willing to spend 80-90 hours a week programming at $24,000 per year with no benefits. My skills and abilities are worth far more than that. The problem is, companies will often move to the lowest bidder in an effort to cut costs wherever they can without paying mind to the drop in quality as a direct result. Companies that do this often nearly always regret their decisions or aren't around long enough to regret said decisions.

Re: Free Markets 101

[mwvdlee]

This.

"Free market" means no copyrights and patents too.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Dr J. keeps the nerd]

A "free market" for labour would mean immigration, not temporary work visas with strict conditions. H1-Bs shift power from labour to management. Management is not asking for an immigration fast-path for highly skilled professionals -- they are asking for temporary permits. H1-B workers, while obviously benefitting from the program, are not seeing the kind of benefit they would if they could immigrate and if they could be hired permanently and progress in their careers in the US. The economy as a whole benefits much less from H1-Bs than it does from skilled immigration. H1-B holders who subsequently start new enterprises aren't doing so in America.

I realize that some H1-B workers are able subsequently to immigrate, but it's a separate route and it's not the program's intention. It's good to have a program that lets highly specialized advisors in -- it ensures knowledge and skills transfer from the broader world, but H1-B is not primarily used for that. The program would have more value if it had higher standards for quality, not larger quantity. As it stands, it's simply an attack on labour, one that cloaks itself in the language of freedom and immigration while providing neither.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

By law, H1-B's earn at least $60K.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

By law, there is also no murder or theft.

Mod parent funny.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

What part of India are you from?

That's the only relevant question in the Infosys interview process. They're openly racist in their hiring policies.

They're notorious for "hiring" people who have never been seen, can't be contacted, and don't do anything to fill slots for their outsourced worker contracts. A suspicious person might conclude there's something shady going on there.

The people who do work for Infosys are typically right out of college with little, if any experience in their "field of expertise". It's common place for them to get certifications by going to testing centers where they pay the fee and have an employee of the testing center sit in front of the computer and enter all of the answers.

When someone can work for $15k/year and live comfortably, it's really difficult for anyone to compete if they don't also live in a third world country. Skills are irrelevant for anyone who lives in a country with a minimum wage higher than their outsourced competition.

The most rabidly anti-Infosys people I've run into professionally are from India and know a lot more about how they work and treat their people. Infosys has a reputation comparable to US plantation owners prior to the civil war.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

The free market ends at the national border. You're talking about globalism, and globalism has done nothing but harm to the wages in the US. So yes, we are entitled to a monopoly on jobs, because we live here.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

The US preaches free markets to the rest of the world, yet the IT programmers there seem to think they are entitled to a monopoly on jobs.
I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply.
Why are IT workers so threatened by this? Is it insecurity about their skills or ability to compete?

Why won't India allow Walmart to open stores in India?

Re: Free Markets 101

[DNS-and-BIND]

Americans have this crazy idea that their government exists to benefit their own people. It has zippo to do with free markets. In fact, it screws with free markets to allow a race to the bottom. Americans are disadvantaged. We're not looking for a country that has a standard of living that a Pakistani bricklayer would consider decent. We'd move to other countries if that was the case.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

The US preaches free markets to the rest of the world, yet the IT programmers there seem to think they are entitled to a monopoly on jobs.
I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply.
Why are IT workers so threatened by this? Is it insecurity about their skills or ability to compete?

Because we're singled out.

There's no H1B equivalent for doctors or lawyers or HVAC techs of college professors. Just programmers.

It's primarily because we're not organized. Grant 50,000 work visas for teachers and see what the unions do about it.

Re:Free Markets 101

[ShanghaiBill]

I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply.

The H1-B program is not a free market. It should be scrapped, and replaced with a much broader immigration program for skilled foreigners, with a clear path to citizenship. Then the immigrants can compete on a fair and level playing field, change employers at will, and have all the same workplace rights and protections as citizens. Competition is fine. A two-tiered labor force is not.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Dutch Gun]

H1-Bs are an end-run around the local labor market. Corporations want the benefit of the comfort and infrastructure the US provides, but don't want to pay the natural market labor costs for highly-skilled developers native to the US.

Free market capitalism works pretty well in many cases, but there are always necessary constraints and conditions. For instance, the free market breaks down when corporations get too large and powerful. Thus, anti-trust and anti-monopoly laws. The free market is notoriously poor at protecting its employees, consumers, or the environment. Thus, safety and environmental regulations. Capitalism seeks to pay as little as it can for labor. As such, we need to protect against destructive practices such as flooding the market with cheap labor and pushing down wages.

What's critical to understand is that capitalism is essentially an amoral (neither good nor evil) economic system only. It needs to be paired with a regulatory system that ensures a minimum level of societal acceptable behavior. In the case of a tiny village who largely trades only amongst themselves, the only regulation needed may be societal mores, while in a large, modern society we need a framework of laws and regulations.

Re:Free Markets 101

[houghi]

The free market is based on demand-supply, but if you are able to control the demand AND the supply, how free is it really?

If I put a plastic bag over your head; let us see how you feel about the demand and supply chain of air that is available for free.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

Not true ... In the train I bump into many IT H1-B's and one of them was a Sr. Java Arch with over 10+ years of work based experience. If not on H1-B would be making about $130~150k but he was make $32k of course the company billing was an entirely different story.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

For instance, the free market breaks down when corporations get too large and powerful.

Corporations get their charters from the state. Corporations cannot exist in a free market.

Re:Free Markets 101

[oh_my_080980980]

Why is India unable to compete in the global market. Make it on your own then talk to us. FYI every industrialized country has restrictions on foreign labor, something you would know if you bothered to research. Another product of the Indian school system where students feel entitled to cheat.

Re:Free Markets 101

[oh_my_080980980]

THANK YOU. The problem with the immigration is that there are less Green Card given out then H1B Visas. So it's disingenuous to say H1B Visas provide any path to citizenship. It's nothing more than another way to outsource without sending the jobs overseas.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Curunir_wolf]

Because we've seen the work of those H1-B workers. Somehow, companies keep hiring them even though it's clear to most of us that they are NOT getting their money's worth. The issue is exacerbated by the fact that much of those salaries are being sent somewhere else, instead of being spent at home, so other businesses suffer, too.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Tablizer]

But not all the variables are under our control. The cost of living is lower in many other countries in part because they have de-facto slaves, for example. Somebody else can take my job but I cannot do the equivalent and just move to live in a slaved up country so that I have a maid etc.

Visa workers come here, work long isolated hours for 5 years, and then retire back home as a rich person because their cost of living is so much lower. They have options I don't. It's not a "free" market because the flow of people is not free.

Plus, we don't want 3rd world conditions in this country like de-facto slaves, sewers flowing in the streets, etc. If the free-market is a pushing us toward a Mad-Max waste-land of gated communities for the rich versus poisoned mutant masses fighting for scraps, then I don't want a "free market". Unfettered capitalism is not a religion (to me); it's a tool. If it doesn't work well, I'll stop supporting it or alter it, if given a choice.

The benefits of imported labor and offshoring appear to have mostly benefited the 1%. The rest here are getting a raw deal. The 1% get the profits and the rest only get more competition and longer hours.

Re:Free Markets 101

[luis_a_espinal]

The US preaches free markets to the rest of the world, yet the IT programmers there seem to think they are entitled to a monopoly on jobs. I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply. Why are IT workers so threatened by this? Is it insecurity about their skills or ability to compete?

Why won't India allow Walmart to open stores in India?

Stop trying to make sense to these sock puppets. It is like trying to teach math to a coconut.

Re:Free Markets 101

[TheGratefulNet]

you're indian, right?

lets turn it around and see how you like it. suppose the shoe was on the other foot and your country was allowing 'cheap foreign labor' to enter the country and take jobs from locals. I know, its laughable - your country can't even give reliable electricity or sanitation to most of its citizens, but lets suppose you were the tech advanced country and we were the third world.

you study for years, you pay your dues and you are invested in your country. you want to grow old there and live your life there. you care about it and you want your home to be prosperous. but the invading hoards are taking - not only the lower end jobs but ALL jobs - and your own people are now being displaced. you would just shrug it off as 'well, we tried to compete but we lost. let the better man win!'. you going to say that? and feel that way??

its so terribly one-sided, you h1b fans. you come like thieves, you take take take and the only receipient is the company who sponsored you. the rest of the folks all end up LOSING because of your presence there.

see, jobs are finite and they don't expand to fill the resources available. when the jobs are taken, those who are without are left to starve. I happen to NOT enjoy starving; especially in my own country where I have paid taxes for more decades than you have been live (very likely).

you have no clue what impact you have on the US, do you?

I bet you fucking don't even CARE! you're the perfect little capitalist: "I got mine, so fark you!". is that it?

look, just admit to being a job thief, say you simply don't CARE and at least we can give you points for honesty.

Re:Free Markets 101

[TheGratefulNet]

"its not a matter of where he grips it, its a matter of weight ratios!"

oh, sorry. wrong thread. carry on.

Re: Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

No many are smart enough to understand this is not free market at all. Its crony capitalism in blatant disregard for political fallout because the nations population is fat dumb and happy. People who disagree typically do not understand it and misrepresent other markets as being free. These comments being point in case.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not really lack of organisation, computer people are often highly logical and organised. It's primarily because IT and software development (particularly in large corporations) is overwhelmingly populated by 'beta males' who can't stand up for themselves, have poor confidence and social skills, and have been conditioned to accept being dominated by the rest of society from an.early age (though they may resent it). Fighting is not in their DNA, else they would be doing some other job. Even those who somehow transcend their natural disadvantages through self improvement and sheer willpower are likely to move into something like management, sales, work for themselves or switch careers entirely.

Another reason is pride. These are people who are highly insecure about their position in society. They look around and see people with lower IQ and who seem to work half as much, yet are much more successful. This leads to a very defensive mentality where they convince themselves they are better than all the suckers around them, and would treat with contempt any suggestion that maybe they are actually being victimised ane that maybe they should consider banding together with their fellow chumps for protection.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Sarten-X]

I cannot do the equivalent and just move to live in a slaved up country so that I have a maid etc.

Why not?

Visa workers come here, work long isolated hours for 5 years, and then retire back home as a rich person because their cost of living is so much lower. They have options I don't.

Really, there's very little preventing you from amassing your fortune here in America, then moving to a developing country where you can buy a mansion, staff, and decent security (which you will likely want) for a few thousand dollars a year. For a few thousand more dollars, you can buy yourself the favor of the local population, by honoring the local leadership, building infrastructure, and/or investing in local businesses. Be a guest at weddings, and offer lavish $20 gifts. Visit the local bars, and make friends with the local folks. Patronize the local artists, and learn and appreciate the local culture. Don't pay your employees substandard wages, don't threaten layoffs, and don't demand absurd hours. Pretty much, become the 1% to the community, and behave how you'd want the 1% to behave here.

You get several years of luxury (depending on your savings, working capabilities, and retirement plans), and the locals working for you get high pay without having to work long isolated hours over here for 5 years. Everybody wins, as long as you're careful not to be detrimental to the local society.

Ah, but you probably don't want to. You probably want to stay near your family and friends, and be with your local culture, and living where a personal security team isn't necessary. It's not that foreign workers have options that you don't... Rather, they are willing to accept options which you won't.

The whole point of free trade is to help equalize the economies of the world. As an American, you see only the drain on your local economy, but as a citizen from a developing country, you would see the influx of money, and the improvement that can (with appropriate guidance) come with it. You can free wage slaves, cover the sewers, etc. As the vehicle for the money transfer, you have the opportunity (and in some folks' opinions, the duty) to decide how the money is directed. If you personally benefit, especially in terms of luxury or prestige, then that's the return for your time, isolation, and management work.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

Your right. So tell me about the reciprocal Indian program. Why be threatened?

Re:Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

> I realize that some H1-B workers are able subsequently to immigrate, but it's a separate route and it's not the program's intention.

*Some* workers? Nearly *all* H1Bs that I know have been able to get the green card before their H1B period ran out. *All* of them are making awesome contributions to the US economy as far as I know.
  - Rayoph Lightman.

Re: Free Markets 101

[Anonymous Coward]

What if we want them to resume inflating!? ... Oh, you mean résumé inflating!

Re:Free Markets 101

[KingOfGondor]

I call BS on that. Either the person was not on an H1B (could have been on L1, which I believe means he is an intra-company transfer paid according to the rates of his home country), or he was pulling your leg, or you are just plain lying. I was on an H1B visa a few years ago for a couple of years, having been hired out of grad school, and got paid 6 figures after being wooed by several companies.

Re:Free Markets 101

[KingOfGondor]

Different constituencies in America want different things that are incompatible. Hard core right wingers want no more immigration (i.e., green cards) or want to cut it drastically, especially for non-white people. To them, the idea of foreigners working a few years and going back is a bug, not a feature. Engineers who are not in the hard core right-wing camp would prefer exactly the opposite. More green cards and an end to the guest worker concept that they feel undercuts the labor market (they are partly right and partly wrong; H1Bs working as contractors for outsourcing companies aren't paid much, but H1Bs with MS or PhD hired from US grad schools make more than the typical American would, as they are hired for having the best skills among those interviewed). Businesses are probably divided on this. Rich SV companies and startups really do want a worldwide pool of applicants and are willing to pay top bucks for them (the Googles, Facebooks, Teslas). Others just want cheaper software and outsource their IT work to contractors. Both want more H1Bs but for different reasons. The former group would willingly support an increase in green cards instead of the H1B guest worker program; they sponsor all their H1B employees for green cards already. The latter group doesn't care about immigration at all; only the bottom line matters to them. If they can't get cheap software out of H1B contractors, they will probably offshore their entire IT work. Tell me, how do you reconcile these different priorities? Since businesses are best at lobbying, they decided to push for more H1Bs, figuring that arguing for more green cards would be a non-starter with the nativist constituency.

Re:Free Markets 101

[KingOfGondor]

Typo in the second sentence. It should say: To them, the idea of foreigners working a few years and going back is a feature, not a bug.

Re:Free Markets 101

[Dr J. keeps the nerd]

Thanks for the correction. It's pretty incredible that Silicon Valley is afraid to lobby for something that's obviously good policy.

Infosys, Really?

[ranton]

Even if their hearts were in the right place, why in the hell would they choose to partner with Infosys on this initiative? The company this group is using for their Code.org PR stunts to train more native IT professionals is basically synonymous with the H1-B program problems native IT professionals complain about. This decision just boggles my mind.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[drinkypoo]

Even if their hearts were in the right place,

They aren't

why in the hell would they choose to partner with Infosys on this initiative?

See above

The company this group is using for their Code.org PR stunts to train more native IT professionals is basically synonymous with the H1-B program problems native IT professionals complain about. This decision just boggles my mind.

Note that the H1-B problems have only intensified under this administration. Now wonder why you asked these questions. They don't give one fuck about these kids' future.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[ShanghaiBill]

why in the hell would they choose to partner with Infosys on this initiative?

Because Infosys stepped forward with the money in hand.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[thedonger]

why in the hell would they choose to partner with Infosys on this initiative?

Because Infosys stepped forward with the money in hand.

Why would they outsource healthcare.org to a company that didn't know what they were doing and charged (at least) 10 times what it should have cost, when there were US-based companies with the expertise who could have rolled it out faster and with far less issues? Because it is about greasing palms and returning favors.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Dr J. keeps the nerd]

Code.org is really a lobbying program for H1-B visas. Its stated mission of teaching poor kids in America to become well-paid IT professionals is window dressing. It is brilliant PR and little more.

It would be great if it were to accidentally succeed in its stated mission -- no one would complain -- but it's about H1-Bs now, not the future of America's children.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see the education now:
Who created the first computer: Bill Gates
Who created the most usable computer: Steve Jobs
Who created social media: Mark Zukerberg
Who created the best programmers: Infosys
What's the best part of the USA: H1B visas

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's even worse, the company had already had gone over budget almost two billion in doing a database for the Canadian government. Not a great track record, but still chosen above tons of qualified companies in the US.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[cayenne8]

Seriously?

Were there no American companies at all they could consider FIRST?!?!?!

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. The .1% philanthropists are having a good belly-laugh.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Curunir_wolf]

It's even worse, the company had already had gone over budget almost two billion in doing a database for the Canadian government. Not a great track record, but still chosen above tons of qualified companies in the US.

That's consistent with the track record of most of these outsourcing companies. HCLA, for instance (Indian-based IT company), famously spent years writing the software for the Boeing Airbus. At the end it didn't work, failed FAA certification, and Boeing had to kick them out and hire a new team to do a re-write. HCLA has done the same on other projects.

You would think that at some point these companies (and government agencies) would figure out that they are wasting money on these low-bidder foreign companies, and stop using them. But no. They must be good salesmen, is all I can figure. They are certainly NOT good software engineers.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Tablizer]

Note that the H1-B problems have only intensified under this administration.

It's amazing how right-wing somebody can be on most policies and STILL constantly be called a "communist" and "socialist". It shows the power of BS.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

You do know that Boeing and Airbus are competitors, right?

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Curunir_wolf]

Sorry, I meant "Dreamliner", not Airbus.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[meta-monkey]

Yeah, but the request for bids specifically required the organization have 8 years of experience with Microsoft Office 2010, and they couldn't find any American companies that did.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

How on earth do you get that this a right-wing policy? It's definitely not conservative in nature (not the actual definition), it's definitely not pushing "less government" (the actual definition). Hint: the Republican leadership is not right-wing. Just because you don't like something doesn't make it right-wing.

IMO it's a *disruptive* policy. The extension of the H1-B and blind eye to abuse appears to me to extend left-wing agendas in order to create a void for government to fill, by lowering unemployment, wages and benefits. I honestly don't see how you could look at it any other way. This is why there's all these people wringing their hands about this administration and the "community organizer" aspect - because that's textbook "make the problem bigger until our solution is acceptable'". Or, sometimes, "create a problem so our policy can be a solution to something."

See the recent stories concerning the gender gap in IT for another example.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Tablizer]

Classification of political beliefs is a tricky issue, I will concede. But generally to most USA citizens, the USA "conservative" approach is to give companies what they ask for, and the companies want more visa workers.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Coren22]

Many Conservatives also dislike foreigners, so would push for less H1-B. This isn't as clear cut an issue as business vs common man.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, but the request for bids specifically required the organization have 8 years of experience with Microsoft Office 2010, and they couldn't find any American companies that did.

Sadly your jest reflects reality. Everyone knows only Indians (the cockroach variety from Asia) have decades of experience on the latest technology released to the public only two weeks ago.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sadly your jest reflects reality. Everyone knows only Indians (the cockroach variety from Asia) have decades of experience on the latest technology released to the public only two weeks ago.

No kidding. I've watched a team of Infosys "engineers" stand around a printer trying to figure out why their A4 document isn't coming out of a printer with US Letter paper.

Re:Infosys, Really?

[davester666]

They just have poor english skills. They think that you want to hire a team with 8 man-years of experience with MS 2010.

And between the people making up the 100 person team, they do.

Don't put computer science in a box

[bigpat]

The use of information technology in areas of language, mathematics, science is fundamental to the way problems are approached in the real world and should be integrated into the curriculum in all subject areas.

Re:Don't put computer science in a box

[thedonger]

The use of information technology in areas of language, mathematics, science is fundamental to the way problems are approached in the real world and should be integrated into the curriculum in all subject areas.

Good point. When I was in high school (1980s) we weren't required to learn how to use a slide rule (although I owned one because nerd). Maybe now we shouldn't teach calculator and instead integrate Matlab or Mathematica into the learning process? A CS course should teach fundamentals, not functional programming or other highly abstracted languages. But applying computers as a tool to solve problems is an entirely different animal these days.

Re:Don't put computer science in a box

[oh_my_080980980]

However, the course they are advocating and providing are programming courses NOT computer science courses. That's the problem. Not too mention C.S. not fundamental course. Math yes, Computer Science, no.

Same Infosys

[Geoffrey.landis]

This infosys:
http://www.computerworld.com/a...
http://www.computerworld.com/a...
?

Meybe if these assholes paid taxes...

[Anonymous Coward]

...the government could do its job and not hand over our kids to be brainwashed. Brought to you by Carl's Junior.

Are we surprised?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really, that a foreign company would curry favor with the US Government by such actions? H1B visas have their place, but usually they are used to displace qualified US workers (well paid engineers usually) so the companies involved can improve their bottom line. To heck with innovation and better products. Let's just do the least for the least $$.... Such is the world today. :-(

That title is incredibly misleading.

[sabbede]

The White House cannot outsource what it doesn't do. Education is under the sovereign authority of the various States, not the White House or any branch of the Federal government. The only influence the Federal government has regarding education comes from attaching strings to grant money.

Re:That title is incredibly misleading.

[Anonymous Coward]

The White House cannot outsource what it doesn't do. Education is under the sovereign authority of the various States, not the White House or any branch of the Federal government

WRONG !

The fact that the Obama Administration can get to SHOVE this "code.org" thing into the collective throats of all the schools inside the U. S. of A. signifies the power of the White House over the state governments and local school districts

Re:That title is incredibly misleading.

[tomhath]

Are you serious or just trolling?

The US Department of Education is part of the executive branch of the Federal government with a very big budget.

Re:That title is incredibly misleading.

[Anonymous Coward]

Very true. Another article to get the tempers flaring, without any substance at all.. I'm becoming sick of slashdot.

Re:That title is incredibly misleading.

[OhPlz]

Much of what the federal government does is attaching strings to money, money taken under the threat of force from the residents of those states. Minimum drinking age is one example. If the states refuses, which is its right, no federal highway funds. The feds already took the money from the incomes of the people of the state, which means the state has to make a lot of money magically appear, or relent to the fed's unlawful edicts. Guess which option wins?

Re:That title is incredibly misleading.

[sabbede]

There are also serious limits on those strings, particularly on how specific they can be. The Federal government can't, for example, set requirements for curricula, let alone require specific courses or require using particular contractors.

Re:That title is incredibly misleading.

[sabbede]

I am serious.

The presence of a Department of Education does not mean the Federal Government runs the education system. Public Health, Safety (police), and Education are the sovereign domain of the States.

The Federal government can only attach conditions to grant money offered to the States. What those conditions can be are extremely limited, and States are not obligated to take the money. What is being described in the article is well outside the limits for the conditions. Obama is just declaring his support for the efforts of an NGO.

Cool!

[Anonymous Coward]

They can teach those young kids the proper way to train their H1B replacement.

It is much worse than _that_!

[Anonymous Coward]

How the future generations of American is being brought up, is being educated is as vital to the survival of the country as the military which defend the nation from all potential aggressors

By farming out the job or educating the children of America to a bunch of Indians --- the Obama administration has committed grand treason!

Can someone please remind me why we elected that motherfucker in the first place?

Re:It is much worse than _that_!

[gohmifune]

Better than the alternative.

Re:It is much worse than _that_!

[Coren22]

Funny cause I have seen nothing in Romney or McCain that would be worse than Obama.

Re:It is much worse than _that_!

[Anonymous Coward]

How the future generations of American is being brought up, is being educated is as vital to the survival of the country as the military which defend the nation from all potential aggressors

By farming out the job or educating the children of America to a bunch of Indians --- the Obama administration has committed grand treason!

Can someone please remind me why we elected that motherfucker in the first place?

Barack fucked your mother and in the morning she told you to vote for your daddy. Obama is a traitor to the USA and an Uncle Tom to the African-Americans all the while spreading racially divisive propaganda about "whitey."

Did you manage to read past "InfoSys"?

[kervin]

If you did you would see that this is partnership with InfoSys Foundation. InfoSys is actually donating millions to be part of this non-profit effort. Secondly, they're helping Code.Org and not leading the effort.

With this announcement, Infosys Foundation USA becomes a Platinum-level sponsor of Code.org, providing not only financial support but also resources and extensive experience in computer science education.

The Chairperson of Infosys Foundation USA, Vandana Sikka, has been appointed to the Code.org Board. Sikka’s background includes a master’s degree in computer science and a successful track record in product design, development and management in several Silicon Valley startups. She joins fellow Code.org board members, including representatives from companies such as Google, Microsoft and Amazon.com.

Don't let Slashdot bloggers work you into a frenzy whenever they feel like. Isn't critical and scientific thinking a big deal around here? Or does that not apply to organizations we don't like.

Re:Did you manage to read past "InfoSys"?

[Anonymous Coward]

OF COURSE their "charity" is donating 'millions' (...to the administration's, and their clients', pet project).. they're essentially using their 'generosity' to help their lobbying efforts for a) higher H1B quotas, and b) more work for those H1B recipients that they employ.

You Don't Know What You Are Talking About

[luis_a_espinal]

The US preaches free markets to the rest of the world

Let me stop you right there from continuing with this stupid-as-shit line of thinking. Certain interest groups in the US preach free markets to the world. That doesn't imply "The US preaches free markets" or whatever shit else these interest groups try to peddle.

, yet the IT programmers there seem to think they are entitled to a monopoly on jobs.

Like almost anywhere else. You don't see engineering in general (and IT in particular) being offshored en-mass in, say, Japan and Germany, do you? I've never been in Germany, but I have been in Japan. So I can claim with some certainty that what I'm saying here holds.

There is also the rule of the law. The law says that H1-B visas are for jobs where companies have a hard time filling in with local talent (be them US workers, or foreign workers with a permanent residence status.)

It is not a replacement of US citizens and legal residents with temporary visa workers to lower costs. That is a violation of the law. In any other country, that would warrant an immediate investigation by a department of labor. Not here, and that is stupid.

And people thinking that we should not investigate (when every other country would), those people are either stupid, obtuse or disingenuous.

I thought free market capitalism was about open market and prices based on demand-supply.

And it is... within the definintion/demarcation of an economy. Any nation that does not treat its economy as a national asset of strategic value is an stupid nation that deserves whatever gets coming.

Look at China, India, Japan, Germany, and so on. They all have specific protections in place according to whatever they consider strategic or vital.

It is only in the US that private enterprises (and politicians in their pockets) who do not think that way. As long as profit is made, the nation as a whole can go screw itself.

Why are IT workers so threatened by this? Is it insecurity about their skills or ability to compete?

Do you understand the meaning of "begging the question"?

There is no competition when locals are being replaced without even giving a chance to compete, being replaced completely and unilaterally with cheaper labor in contradiction of what the law says.

And this just doesn't affect US citizens. It also affects legal residences. I've seen with my own eyes India workers with permanent resident status getting replaced with H1-B visas. So it is not just a question of talent and competition. It is a disingenuous violation of the law.

Not only that, the H1-B abuse is heavily slanted towards India workers and consulting firms? Why?

If we are going to get inundated and replaced by H1-B workers, let them be more diverse, from Russia, China, Africa, and LATAM, not just India. This is the biggest problem I have with abuses of the H1-B program. It artificially skews one of most profitable segments of our economy towards a specific foreign nationality.

The country as it is has a history of racial segmentation. There is no need to make that problem even worse.

I have a bridge to sell

[luis_a_espinal]

By law, H1-B's earn at least $60K.

By law, H1-Bs can only come for jobs that cannot be filled with the local work force. By law, they cannot replace working locals. But shit, guess what happens? Do you think H1-B visa holders are actually compensated fairly by Infosys and the like?

I have a bridge to sell, and a bottle of snake oil to boot. Let me know if you are interested.

Living in the 1st world preaching free markets is

[Anonymous Coward]

Living in the 1st world preaching free markets is like a shark professing to be vegan.... a king promoting anarchy... a Xenophobe promoting H1B... Pravda or Fox News reporting honest news...

Should have outsourced to Disney

[ShaunC]

If this is such a pressing issue, they need to start turning some of the Disney stars into developers (whoops, sorry, I mean "coders," that's the trending buzz word).

All these people should have their own prime time shows about the exciting life of a software developer. The basics of CLIs and text editors on multiple operating systems. How to use version control. How to write unit tests and pass continuous integration. How to help QA your own dog food. How to diplomatically interface with folks in other departments. How to write documentation. How to triage trouble tickets. How to train your own replacement.

Oh, wait! None of that's sexy. Kids wouldn't tune in to shows like that because it isn't what most of them want to do, any more than most kids wanted to do in decades past. The ones who really are interested in development will pursue this path on their own, as many of us did. We don't and won't have any lack of competent workers, because some percentage of us will always be nerds who love this stuff. We do have a surplus of companies who want to save every last penny by farming jobs out to H-1Bs, and we do have a corresponding surplus of unemployed competent Americans.

We're at a point where entry-level tech support jobs are routinely requiring a bachelor's degree or foreign equivalent, junior analyst jobs are requiring an MBA or foreign equivalent, etc. Companies are quick to complain that there are no qualified local workers, because they can't find an American with a four-year degree who knows Linux + Solaris + J2EE + Servlets + IIS + SAP + Oracle + 10 years with Sharepoint, and is willing to work 70 hours a week for $35,000 per year. Meanwhile they have a guy from Bangalore whose resume claims he does precisely all of that, and maybe they won't check out all of his qualifications if he's willing to share a room at Extended Stay America with 5 of his peers for a year or two, wink wink nod nod.

The market is already saturated, and will be for some years to come. Where's the federal push to create more tradesmen (plumbers, electricians, mechanics, carpenters)? To create more lawyers, or accountants, or any other career path? I'm growing weary of this idea that every child in America must be a developer^Wcoder. It serves no purpose but to suppress salaries across the board and even further encourage the H-1B loophole.

Fix HR practices.

[Peterus7]

It's still easier (cheaper) to go with a hiring company that hires H1Bs, so a lot of HR departments will go with that option (even if it costs them more in the long run.) There's also the issue with tech companies looking for unicorns instead of being willing to train people. It becomes an excuse to go after H1Bs who will in essence be indentured servants. The real issue here is corporate greed and HR stupidity.

We don't have enough smart workers, hence H-1Bs...

[Anonymous Coward]

... replacing stupid Americans. We don't have enough smart children, hence H-1Bs replacing stupid children. Don't worry, your American children can always get a job that has been outsourced from Indonesia or China or Bangalore or...

H1B visas and "talent shortage" whining

[Anonymous Coward]

How typical.

They outsource the tech jobs and then hypocritically whine about the "talent shortage"

There's plenty of talent, they're here already! No need to import more!

This is all designed to depress salaries. Nothing else.