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Climatologist Speaks On the Effects of Geoengineering

Lasrick writes: In this interview with Rutgers University climatologist Alan Robock, he discusses geoengineering and nuclear winter. Robock believes that geoengineering is not the solution to global warming because of its many risks and unknowns. He notes that some of the technology that would be required to implement geoengineering has not been developed and that many socio-political questions would have to be resolved before it could be put into practice. To start with, the world would have to reach agreement on a target temperature and on what entity should do the implementing. Robock's biggest fear with regard to geoengineering is that disputes over these questions could escalate into nuclear war which in turn could cause nuclear winter, producing global famine among other effects. Fascinating, wide-ranging interview with one of the world's top climatologists.

13 of 105 comments (clear)

  1. Never a good idea by mdtiemann · · Score: 3, Insightful

    To paper over a deep problem with a shallow solution.

    1. Re:Never a good idea by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Not to mention the fact that climate models have been nowhere near accurate. So if we don't understand the climate 100% why should we start meddling with it? It's like letting a blind farmer do brain surgery.

    2. Re:Never a good idea by Chas · · Score: 3, Insightful

      No. It's that geoengineering can be dangerous on a scale usually reserved for asteroid impacts and total thermonuclear war.

      Done right? Sure, it could be beneficial.

      Done wrong? And you could not only not fix the problems the project was designed to fix. But you could exacerbate them, or create entirely new problems. A Best Case Scenario for something like this is billions to quadrillions of dollars wasted and nothing happens.

      What's being argued, right now, is that we don't have a sufficient grasp on the technology, or a suitably unified scientific/sociopolitical agenda.

      --


      Chas - The one, the only.
      THANK GOD!!!
    3. Re:Never a good idea by khallow · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Facts trump propaganda. Those links don't explain why there is a factor of three uncertainty in the long term temperature forcing of a doubling of the concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere or why actual climate change is coming in at the bottom of their predictions.

  2. That escalated quickly by gameboyhippo · · Score: 2, Insightful

    While I see many challenges to geoengineering, talks breaking down into nuclear war is not one of them. I mean, I have challenging talks with my wife all the time about the budget, but I never think going into it that she's going to burn down the house in response to a dispute.

    1. Re:That escalated quickly by Mal-2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The two of you hopefully agree that your interests are aligned, however.

      What happens if the Russian plan for reducing temperature means a return of Dust Bowl conditions in the Great Plains of North America, and they start doing it unilaterally? You don't see how that could lead to a rapid escalation with Mr. "I'll nuke before I give Crimea back" Putin?

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    2. Re:That escalated quickly by Feyshtey · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Step 1: Tell China that they can no longer spew carbon into the atmosphere and that their industry is now under the authority of the U.N.

      Step 2: Break out the marshmallows.

      --
      "But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it,..." - Nancy Pelosi
  3. Geo-engineering will be part of the solution by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When climatologists say geo-engineering is not the solution, they mean a political solution to drastically and immediately reduce CO2 emissions, is a better choice. Of course, that is NOT going to happen. So the choice is not between geo-engineering and some theoretical perfect solution, but between geo-engineering and doing almost nothing. I don't think we are to the point where we should roll out large scale geo-engineering, but we certainly should be doing the research so it is an option in the future. Currently it is politically incorrect to do even minimal research.

  4. Geo-engineering is intrinsically riskier by sideslash · · Score: 5, Insightful

    At least with carbon reduction we're attempting to reverse climate changes through a mechanism believed to trigger those changes. However, with new intervention mechanisms that aren't fully understood, I don't trust anybody's model of what they think will happen.

    My (likely) worst case scenario: an ice age in 100 years. That would be worse than global warming.

    1. Re:Geo-engineering is intrinsically riskier by Todd+Palin · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wish I had some mod points for you. This is exactly the issue. Our climate system is incredibly complex, and new complexities are always being added to climate models as we discover them. The geo-engineering solutions might look good in one dimension, but have virtually infinite potential forks that lead to unintended consequences. The real question is, Are we willing to try a geo-engineering solution that is certain to have unimaginable unintended consequences? Unfortunately, the answer is probably yes. There are many stories about various schemes that have been implemented and produced profound unintended consequences, so it is obvious that that won't stop folks from trying it.

    2. Re:Geo-engineering is intrinsically riskier by khallow · · Score: 3, Insightful

      At least with carbon reduction we're attempting to reverse climate changes through a mechanism believed to trigger those changes. However, with new intervention mechanisms that aren't fully understood, I don't trust anybody's model of what they think will happen.

      I'll buy that. But I think it's worth noting here that all of our choices are geoengineering choices, including emission reduction and doing nothing. I find it a dubious argument to heavily favor one approach and then rule out a whole category of other strategies on the basis that we don't know enough to implement them. That should be a warning that we don't know enough to implement any of them.

      Also there's some low-lying geoengineering fruit such as albedo changes in urban environments in hot locations which is a considerable part of the world, reforestation, and putting out large coal bed fires.

  5. Survival is not pleasant by s.petry · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry, but you can't equate a nations survival against a different nation with an argument with your wife. Not even close to the same thing, and much more is at stake. Take his biggest example, what should Earth's surface temperature target? Any fixed rate will impact someone's growing seasons and food production. Somebody has to lose something, or perhaps it's best to term it "sacrifice" something. Does Asia lose rice production, or does Europe/North America lose grain production?

    The article does not even tough the bigger issues. The particles that have been patented for use in GeoEngineering are hazardous. Perhaps there are other patents we don't know about, but the ones we do know about are primarily barium and aluminum. Neither humans or animals process large amounts of metals very well, and metals have a toxic effect over time because we can't process them out of our systems. Somebody has to take the blame when people start dropping, and war is probably going seen as the only option to fight off "those evil poisoner people".

    --

    -The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.

  6. Re:Chase the rabbit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You've got that backwards: there can be no solution to global warming, as too many wealthy people have too much to lose from their industries, so fund the constant obfuscation.

    I've seen multimillionaires threaten entire city councils over environmental action that doesn't suit them.