Android and iOS App Porting Will Not Be Available At Windows 10 Launch

An anonymous reader writes: Arguably the biggest news out of Microsoft's Build 2015 conference was that developers will be able to bring Web apps, Windows desktop apps (Win32), as well as Android and iOS mobile apps to the Windows Store. Yet each of these work differently, and there are a lot of nuances, so we talked to Todd Brix, general manager of Windows apps and store, to get some more detail. First and foremost, upon Windows 10's launch, developers will only be able to bring Web apps to the Windows Store. The Win32, Android, and iOS app toolkits will not be ready in time. That said, with Microsoft's Windows as a service strategy, they will arrive as part of later updates

Comments

What, no Clippy?

[Anonymous Coward]

No Clippy, no sale, Mr. Gates. Really, what Win32 apps would still have enough of an audience to (a) merit a WinStore placement, yet (b) have developers not interested in joining the 21st Century?

Re:What, no Clippy?

[im_thatoneguy]

1) Photoshop
2) Full Office
3) World of Warcraft
4) All productivity software.

Re:What, no Clippy?

[slack_justyb]

To address each of your points.

Photoshop - Does anyone "really" run this on Windows?! I thought that was mostly a Mac thing, but whatever, I'll give that one to you.

Full Office - This is the big thing about the Build 2015, Office becoming its own platform. This "run Android / iOS" crap pales in comparison to the Office as a platform part. If Microsoft can do this whole thing "right" Office will become bigger than anything they imagined.

World of Warcraft - Really? Just no, you don't get that one.

All productivity software - That depends on your definition of that word. Many of our most productive folks work with OLAP cubes and our big data stuff in all in cloud. Most documentation done in house is in the cloud with the software to produce it in the cloud. To be fair though, we're mostly an IBM i shop and most everything runs on that i, aside from Excel, Word, and PowerPoint (we ditched Exchanged long time ago and wondered why we didn't do it sooner). So because of your vague-iness, I'm not giving you that one, and also a lot of productivity isn't done by humans anyway and the part that is done requires different tools than the tools people used for productivity ten years ago.

I'm pretty sure Windows has a place in the future, but desktop for the majority of folks is dead. I see more and more iPads with BT keyboards replacing laptops at colleges, I see more big data/cloud services in companies, I see more things becoming automated that once was some "productivity" thing humans did. Each day I see fat desktops becoming less usable. That's not to say they'll go away, far from that, but they aren't going to be the dominate device for much longer. Microsoft has had some serious issues with getting a solid mobile product to market and it is killing them. If they make good on the Office as a platform thing, they'll be in a much better position than they are now. However, we are past the point where Microsoft just has to put out a good device or a good OS. They've got to become the preferred device, the preferred OS. People are going to have some random Wintel in their house that gets dusted off for the term paper or whatever, but Microsoft really needs to get into the position where people are letting their iPhones collect dust if they really stand a chance for a brighter future than being relegated to the thing you see when you get to work.

Re:What, no Clippy?

[BitZtream]

Photoshop - Does anyone "really" run this on Windows?! I thought that was mostly a Mac thing, but whatever, I'll give that one to you.

No one runs it on OS X anymore either. Sure there are probably a few firms that still have some copies in use because they have old graphics designers that are incapable of moving to something else. For low to not ultra-heavy work, theres pixelmator which does everything that the various versions of photoshop due (excluding the medical edition of photoshop) and for the very high end side there are multiple photoshop replacements.

Photoshop once ruled supreme, today, after everything Adobe has done to it in the last say 5 years ... its irrelevant.

Re:What, no Clippy?

[Anonymous Coward]

As an IBM shop, if you ditched Exchange a long time ago for Notes and are happy about that, then I can safely disregard the remainder of your post as the ravings of a lunatic.

Re:What, no Clippy?

[slack_justyb]

Never said for Notes. Just ditched Exchange. As far as email goes, we stopped hosting it. It was a huge drain on cash and the seventh most ticketed item in help desk was always something like, "help my phone stopped getting email."

Re:Lightning Speed!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is all actually quite promising but thanks for all the negativity.

Do you believe in magic?

[Anonymous Coward]

Some times it is difficult to "port" a Visual Studio application from one version to the next.

This is going to be fragile and error prone as hell.

Re:Do you believe in magic?

[MightyMartian]

They couldn't do it with iOS, but why couldn't Microsoft just do what BB did and throw an Android compatibility layer into Windows? Since from what I'm reading now it doesn't sound like these new projects are going to fix UI specifics, why not just say "fuck it", and put Android or Dalvik in a VM?

Re:Do you believe in magic?

[im_thatoneguy]

Because then you wouldn't be able to use any platform specific features. Also BB didn't exactly profit from that approach. If they re-compile for the native platform they are more likely to actually add a few specific features as they go like live tiles while they've got it 'open' so to speak.

Re:Do you believe in magic?

[Anonymous Coward]

While true, Microsoft is going for a two-pronged approach with Android developers. First, if their apps are using a specific set of API's, mainly a version of the ASOP, then they can take their unmodified already compiled apk, and submit it to the store. Microsoft will handle all the redirection to their own store API, and similar functionality.

If the Developers want to use any Windows 10 specific features, such as Live Tiles, then they need to compile the app with a few extra lines of code, and the app will become a native Window App, though it will still only work on phone.

iOS should work on everything with a screen.

Re:Do you believe in magic?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this the same phony compatibility story that you cart out for word doc compatibility from one version to the next? Funny how none of this ever happens to anyone except Slashdot posters who never use the shit.

Future Features

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah, its the old 'trust me' it will be wonderful...someday. But if their aggressive rollout and conversion of everything to a WIndows 10 environment succeeds, there will be nothing else -- like it or not. How does one know a salesperson is lying? They are still breathing...

More important than the technical questions is

[Anonymous Coward]

Why in the fuck would I want to run an application designed for a mobile device on a desktop?

Maybe in the future if mobile devices become

* more capable and
* have more software than desktops
* and have better usability than desktops

this will make sense, but that's a LOOOOOOOOOONG way off if at all.

Re:More important than the technical questions is

[im_thatoneguy]

Who said "Desktop" the point is to get these onto Smartphones and Tablets. The fact that it'll also run on the desktop is sort of besides the point.

Re:More important than the technical questions is

[Anonymous Coward]

The main goal is to get these on Mobile as in Phones and Tablets. Only the iOS code will potentially run on Desktop. The Android will only run on Phone. The iOS can run on anything.

Not to mention, a good iOS app may be great for the Xbox One. Or, with the IoT devices, the iOS apps could add support for sensors to go with their app. Not to mention the HoloLens stuff.

Re:More important than the technical questions is

[slack_justyb]

Totally underrated comment. You hit the nail on the head. I think Slashdot has a way of attracting desktop thinkers, which isn't a bad thing don't get me wrong on that point. However, I hear the same old stale arguments tossed out there about desktops every year and every year desktop sales erode just a little bit more. In my company, there are like ten to fifteen technical workers that use desktops to create online business reporting that hundreds of end users use on their iPads and Android tablets. The desktops are still there, we just need less of them because the mobile devices do 99% of the work for 90% of the employees. The crap like working with spreadsheets sent in and all of that crap, the company fired those folks because they figured out that they could automate all that crap with advanced ETL tools. What used to be Word documents that held all our company processes, has changed into someone from the engineering department passing a BPMN document into an online processor and it spitting out technical documents that people on the floor modify using their tablets. I'd say about 80% of the technical documentation is now written by a computer, the other 20% is done on a tablet. Presentations are pretty much take a bunch of photos from your phone, some charts and data taken from the BI reporting tool, and about 100 or less words dictated to the iPad, and boom you've got your quarterly meeting presentation. Again, majority of the information comes from a machine and the small amount of actual work to be done a desktop is forty billion times over qualified.

So for the guy above you who thinks all this stuff is so far off. This is something that happens today because the majority of actual work isn't done by humans anyway. The stuff doesn't have to be more capable because we fired those people who required that and automated their job. We don't need more software, sheer numbers is just a dumb figure. We don't care about usability, pretty much everything is just a computer talking to a computer, we just need to see the end result, and the people who maintain the two systems talking to each other, we need at most like three of them. Desktops are not dead and they aren't going to die off completely, but we need way fewer of them now and that trend is only going to increase.

Re:Lightning Speed!

[DogDude]

Yes, now those five poor bastards who bought Windows 8 phones might, at some still unspecified date, get some decent apps.

Sssshh! Don't tell anybody, but those of us using Windows Phones don't need all of the silly "apps" that Android and Apple users need because Windows Phone 8.1 is actually useful, in and of itself!

Re:Lightning Speed!

[stephanruby]

Yes, now those five poor bastards who bought Windows 8 phones might...

I think you meant to say Microsoft 10 phones.

Once their phones are compatible with Android, they're planning to ditch the Windows name.

Not sure of the benefit here

[rsilvergun]

any app simple enough to run on both mobile & desktop is probably a web app. I guess there's games, but I've played ports of mobile games and they don't work. The design choices you make with mobile are completely different, and you usually end up with something that plays poorly on both. Ground Pounders was like that. Tons of control features were missing from the desktop port because they didn't work in mobile, and the game suffered for it...

Re:Not sure of the benefit here

[Anonymous Coward]

Simply sounds like you just aren't up to the task. Plenty of shit coders like you to weed out.

Re:Not sure of the benefit here

[Zontar The Mindless]

Sounds like you haven't a clue as to what rsilvergun was talking about.

App appers can't app apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

Then how will they be able to app their apps if they can't app apps?

Apps!

Re:Lightning Speed!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is only for phones produced by Microsoft. The OS is called Windows 10 for Mobile.

Job offers != job "interested"

[Rinikusu]

I'd love to have 30 job OFFERS a day. These are not offers.

Re:Job offers != job "interested"

[Anonymous Coward]

Should personally be fucking grateful for anyone interesting in employing you - 1st requirement of the job, do try and be on the same page as your colleagues.

"Web apps"

[Anonymous Coward]

First and foremost, upon Windows 10's launch, developers will only be able to bring Web apps to the Windows Store.

WinRT is not a "web app" framework. It is natively C++, with options to also write in .NET and to a lesser extent JavaScript.

Developers scarce for Windows

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's be honest here. Microsoft is pushing ported apps from IOS and Android because it cannot find developers who want to create good apps for Windows.
Its probably good for Windows mobile to finally get some apps, but the question is how well will these apps run ported to Windows? Most apps are carefully crafted for a particular OS and the hardware that runs it. Take for example IOS which obviously can be more specific given its just the iPhone they are working with. The other question to be answered is the overhead porting these apps to Windows phones and devices and what hardware those devices use will probably affect how well those apps work. Its really kind of end around for Microsoft who finds itself doing all the one OS for all devices Windows and having very little interest in all the application work it started with Windows 8 and now Windows 10. Still many of Windows users are still basically doing what they have always done. Working in Windows with programs and software.

iOS apps on Windows store

[BitZtream]

Someone doesn't know WTF they are talking about. Windows store containing iOS apps ... which can't actually sign them with the digital signature required to actually load to a iOS device and run ...

And if they are referring to web pages ... well, web pages != apps, stop ruining the terminology you ignorant fucks.

Re:iOS apps on Windows store

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft will need the cooperation of the iOS app developer to upload the app, but the developer doesn't have to change the app, so it's correct to say that the Windows store will contain iOS apps.

Re:iOS apps on Windows store

[BitZtream]

I can upload apps now to random websites ... they won't get loaded to an iOS device nor will the run on iOS devices. Thats not something Microsoft can change with out a jailbreak or their would be a metric fuckton more support for things like Cydia.

And if they're trying to imply they've emulated iOS's API and you can run iOS apps on Windows10 devices ... BWHAAHAHAHAHA sure you did. I'm sure that works great for a tiny ass demo app like hello world, beyond that the only way they could get proper emulation is to actually run iOS, which they can't.

No matter what they are saying or implying, they are lying.

Re:iOS apps on Windows store

[BitZtream]

Just for reference, what they ACTUALLY MEAN is that you'll be able to compile Java (android) or Objective C (iOS) for Windows apps, thats about all, so no, you won't be able to run Android or iOS apps on your Windows 10 device, you'll be able to run some half ass half where the developer attempts to point only bits of they application for the OS interaction.

Re:iOS apps on Windows store

[Anonymous Coward]

Awfully aggressive with the comments for somebody who clearly hasn't even listened to what they announced for even 5 minutes. For reference, Candy Crush Saga on WP is a recompiled ios app and runs great. Not exactly the cutting edge of technology in that app, but most other mobile apps aren't either. A GUI wrapped around some webservices in most cases.

Re:iOS apps on Windows store

[Bing Tsher E]

You know so much it's fucking amazing you don't work for Apple!!

Oh, wait...

Naw. They'd not bother paying you.

Re:Lightning Speed!

[Anonymous Coward]

So, might as well use the google tracking device!

Wha's Windows10? Is it like Windows7?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have Windows7 and it works. Why do I need Windows10?

Re:Lightning Speed!

[stephanruby]

You didn't check the link I posted. It was for "Nokia by Microsoft" phone.

Re:Lightning Speed!

[LifesABeach]

Windows? My history teacher tried to explain what it was.

Microsoft still don't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

...the reason windows 8 was so terrible, and that MS surface vanished without trace, despite heavy advertising, is that they tried to make a tablet and laptop with the same human interface. This plan to have different types of programs running on the same device, shows that they still don't get it.
Nobody wants microsoft surface, or a windows for mobile devices.
Of course, it does have one upside, that we only need to develop for Android in future, and our software should also run on windows.

Goodbye Android and iOS!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Windows Phone for me from now on. Microsoft truly is the greatest computer compnay.

Re:Lightning Speed!

[Bing Tsher E]

'History Teacher'?? Is he also the wrestling coach?

Re:Lightning Speed!

[LifesABeach]

I'm also greatful he's not a billionare, (movie reference), LOL.

Re:Wha's Windows10? Is it like Windows7?

[Anonymous Coward]

Apart from a bunch of new wallpapers and icons, you need to get the latest NSA patches. There are many new internet services which didn't even exists at the time windows 7 came out, so the agency needs to put their hooks there.

A better DOS than DOS

[amorsen]

Will Windows Phone thrive by being a better iOS than iOS and a better Android than Android? It did not work for OS/2 20 years ago.